Breakthrough infections

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You keep suggesting that it is a choice to get vaccinated/wear a mask, but not a choice not to interact with those that are not vaccinated/wear a mask.
All parties have the choice.

yes you do have that choice!

I never said that.

You can hide away in some sanitary germ proof place anytime you want, who do you thing is stopping you or suggesting you cannot???

I think based on the numbers you are living this horrible fear over something that does not rise to that level, but it is your choice.

And how long would you stay hidden away? This will never totally go away or not be a threat. List is way too short to live in such fear.

Just think back to the AIDS/HIV "epidemic" this is similar in many ways (socially not medically)

All that hostility and fear and discrimination, all for no good reason,,,

Do you really think that what happened then was reasonable?

[John Mercier]

Because of HIV (though it is not the only blood borne pathogen), we now have specific kits required that business uses to clean up any blood.

So the only way to get HIV at my workplace is to be in the bathroom sharing needles or having unprotected sex. Neither of those are condoned for employees or customers.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Because of HIV (though it is not the only blood borne pathogen), we now have specific kits required that business uses to clean up any blood.

So the only way to get HIV at my workplace is to be in the bathroom sharing needles or having unprotected sex. Neither of those are condoned for employees or customers.

Thats the understanding today, are you so young you honestly dont remember the fear people harbored and did not even want to be on the same sidewalk with someone who was an HIV/AIDS sufferer?

Its so similar to what I see today.

People who were even suspected of being gay were beat up just for being in public.

It was public fear meltdown.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Thats the understanding today, are you so young you honestly dont remember the fear people harbored and did not even want to be on the same sidewalk with someone who was an HIV/AIDS sufferer?

Its so similar to what I see today.

People who were even suspected of being gay were beat up just for being in public.

It was public fear meltdown.

That was in the early unknown, we went through that with Covid also; but now we are well beyond that stage.
I can't get HIV from a toilet seat, and I can't get Covid from a doorknob.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

That was in the early unknown, we went through that with Covid also; but now we are well beyond that stage.
I can't get HIV from a toilet seat, and I can't get Covid from a doorknob.

Yes, then clearly you do get it.

So then why the tremendous fear of the unvaccinated? Your concerns make even less sense now.

I know you focus a lot on the impact to business, but this cant all just be about money??? Trading such a serious loss of your freedom of choice so that someone can make a few dollars cant be all there is to your concerns.

So am I supposed to read this as you just want the right to tell unvaccinated people to keep out of your business/personal space/something else? Again, that doesnt make sense either.

Sorry I still just dont get the argument you are trying to make.

So again, not sure its really worth either of our time to make the connection that seems impossible to make here.

In the past week in the U.S. ...
New daily reported cases fell 15.7%
Covid-related hospitalizations fell 10.2%

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yes, then clearly you do get it.

So then why the tremendous fear of the unvaccinated? Your concerns make even less sense now.

I know you focus a lot on the impact to business, but this cant all just be about money??? Trading such a serious loss of your freedom of choice so that someone can make a few dollars cant be all there is to your concerns.

So am I supposed to read this as you just want the right to tell unvaccinated people to keep out of your business/personal space/something else? Again, that doesnt make sense either.

Sorry I still just dont get the argument you are trying to make.

So again, not sure its really worth either of our time to make the connection that seems impossible to make here.

In the past week in the U.S. ...
New daily reported cases fell 15.7%
Covid-related hospitalizations fell 10.2%

You do realize that broad US data doesn't matter. And that if you got HIV tomorrow, you won't need to quarantine and transfer your workload to a co-worker? Or is that concern a ''panic'' in your mind?

We went through this in the winter before the vaccine became available. We quarantined those that caught Covid and needed to be per the rules. The workload on me increased exponentially - I gave my notice. They requested that I stay to train others so they could continue to service customers. That time period is quickly slipping away.

Another outbreak leaves less time to train, as personnel have to be moved to fill the gap. This is why it becomes an issue.

If they get covid, but are fully vaccinate with the two week period, both they and I will need to wear masks. It slows the training, but we don't need to isolate. If they have not been fully vaccinated, they must isolate for 10 days... regardless of symptoms -no training. If another employee must isolate, and a trainee or I must fill the gap... again training stops for 10 days.

When it is this busy, those ''little'' things add up.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

You do realize that broad US data doesn't matter. And that if you got HIV tomorrow, you won't need to quarantine and transfer your workload to a co-worker? Or is that concern a ''panic'' in your mind?

We went through this in the winter before the vaccine became available. We quarantined those that caught Covid and needed to be per the rules. The workload on me increased exponentially - I gave my notice. They requested that I stay to train others so they could continue to service customers. That time period is quickly slipping away.

Another outbreak leaves less time to train, as personnel have to be moved to fill the gap. This is why it becomes an issue.

If they get covid, but are fully vaccinate with the two week period, both they and I will need to wear masks. It slows the training, but we don't need to isolate. If they have not been fully vaccinated, they must isolate for 10 days... regardless of symptoms -no training. If another employee must isolate, and a trainee or I must fill the gap... again training stops for 10 days.

When it is this busy, those ''little'' things add up.

I guess to me its neither a concern nor a panic, its just business.

I deal with employee turnover constantly. Retention is very difficult the last few years. COVID has done nothing to significantly change our overall resources available.

I see this as no different than a bad cold and flu year, except that its extended. Peoples responses to all this are far too extreme, no need to stop processes like training unless just adapt them to remote/online activities. Figure out what work can be done from home, its amazing how much work people can do via MS Teams or Zoom. And if they dont have a computer at home, get them one and migrate all your staff to laptops.

So many options to adapt and overcome.

We create our own roadblocks to productivity, when the options sometime end up even better then the situation was before the need to change.

[BillJohn]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

I see this as no different than a bad cold and flu year, except that its extended.

Wow is it ignorance or hubris? More likely you just trolling and we are just feeding you by replying. Count me out.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by BillJohn

Wow is it ignorance or hubris? More likely you just trolling and we are just feeding you by replying. Count me out.

If you will go back and re-read the message it was regarding the impact of COVID on people being physically in the office to be working or trained, and in my opinion it is no greater impact than I have seen in years when we had lots of people out with colds and flu.

As such it would appear to me yours is either the trolling response, or you just didnt read/understand what was written.

Mine is an honest reply about my observations and experience concerning how to deal with the impact of COVID to your available man hours to be worked. In many instances it is not necessary for every employee to be physically in the building to perform their work, sales is a perfect example. Telework is now a widely accepted method of reducing the impact of the pandemic, and even better yet, it may be a good option for lots of folks even after the pandemic is finally declared over.

Is yours an honest attempt to share experiences and helpful solutions? in any case hostile and closed mined responses will accomplish little for anyone, and as you seem to be working yourself up over the matter and unable to actually read the posts as they are written, maybe you should consider taking a rest from all this, as you suggest ("count me out"). Sometimes its too stressful to discuss such matters, well for some people.

ATB

[fatlazyless]

As already mentioned I got my third vaccination shot of Pfizer, on Sunday at the local CVS. It was very easy to get it done. You start at www.cvs.com/immunizations/get-vaccinated ...... answer about ten questions .... get an appointment ...... and get it done ..... paid by your Uncle Sam.

They had many empty time slots available ..... 1pm, 2pm, 3pm, 4pm ..... all available ....... with an appointment I was in and out the door in about 7-minutes or so ...... and I got a covid vaccination in the left arm and a flu vaccination in the right arm ....... then went back to Waterville Valley and swam 24 very long 35-yard laps of breast stroke and side stroke in the cool water www.wmacwv.com 70-degree , huge outdoor swim pool.

Anyone else here get their THIRD Covid vaccination shot, or YOU just thinking about it?

It was soooooo easy to get it done at CVS.

[John Mercier]

Really? So if they have a cold or flu, they have to isolate for 10 days if they are not vaccinated?

I didn't know that you could get a cold vaccine, and I have never seen a rule/regulation that states an unvaccinated employee that gets flu must isolate for 10 days... in fact, I haven't seen one that even requires one day; or for that matter that they even have to wear a mask.

So, yeah, it is different.
Add in the time limit, and it really becomes different.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Really? So if they have a cold or flu, they have to isolate for 10 days if they are not vaccinated?

I didn't know that you could get a cold vaccine, and I have never seen a rule/regulation that states an unvaccinated employee that gets flu must isolate for 10 days... in fact, I haven't seen one that even requires one day; or for that matter that they even have to wear a mask.

So, yeah, it is different.
Add in the time limit, and it really becomes different.

No actually colds and flu in the workplace can be far worse, as employees either feel bad enough to take leave (the lost work hours you seem most concerned about), or they come to work and sneeze and blow they noses and actually spread germs unlike most COVID infected employees who will either will be in isolation at home, but fully capable of teleworking, or they will be out and about but in the vast majority of cases not spreading anything as they are not coughing or sneezing.

We actually had an employee document that he had doubled his productivity while teleworking due to the lack of distractions in the facility. And this was an employee who did not want to telework. Call it one of the better lessons learned as a result of COVID.

Hope this is helpful to your place of work.

[John Mercier]

If you think so.
But in approximately six months... reality hits.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

If you think so.
But in approximately six months... reality hits.

Your crystal ball is better than mine, what event is happening in 6 months that changes anything?

I hope its something good like I hit the lottery, and if so please pass along the numbers I need to play and on what date and game. I promise I will buy you a pallet of non-chinese masks once I hit!

[BillJohn]

"I see this as no different than a bad cold and flu year, except that its extended. You used those words to marginalize Covid and compare it to bad cold year? Covid has now killed more than the 1918 flu pandemic and Covid is far from done with us. Why? Because there are morons who “think” vaccinations are somehow harmful and that masks are not part of the solution.

I understand that you and your sycophants all spew the same verisimilitudes. I do not know if you have an agenda or are simply unable to look at the facts and rationally process the information. What I do know is that people like you have exacerbated the pandemic and for that, you should feel shame…but I know you cannot really comprehend your role in extending the pandemic.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by BillJohn

"I see this as no different than a bad cold and flu year, except that its extended. You used those words to marginalize Covid and compare it to bad cold year? Covid has now killed more than the 1918 flu pandemic and Covid is far from done with us. Why? Because there are morons who “think” vaccinations are somehow harmful and that masks are not part of the solution.

I understand that you and your sycophants all spew the same verisimilitudes. I do not know if you have an agenda or are simply unable to look at the facts and rationally process the information. What I do know is that people like you have exacerbated the pandemic and for that, you should feel shame…but I know you cannot really comprehend your role in extending the pandemic.

They aren't extending it, we are. We make excuses for them.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Your crystal ball is better than mine, what event is happening in 6 months that changes anything?

I hope its something good like I hit the lottery, and if so please pass along the numbers I need to play and on what date and game. I promise I will buy you a pallet of non-chinese masks once I hit!

I switch jobs. The untrained are the untrained.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Because of HIV (though it is not the only blood borne pathogen), we now have specific kits required that business uses to clean up any blood.

So the only way to get HIV at my workplace is to be in the bathroom sharing needles or having unprotected sex. Neither of those are condoned for employees or customers.

And thats a good thing right?