Mask use in grocery stores

[Major]

Originally Posted by Pam

It seems like a smaller percentage of people are wearing masks in the Meredith Hannaford. At one point, it seemed that most everyone was, but recently I'd guess maybe only 70% of people are wearing one, and even the guy at the fish counter wasn't wearing one when he waited on me. It was under his chin.

From what I've read, mask wearing in enclosed public spaces can go a long, long way towards controlling this disease, but only if everyone complies. I hate wearing a mask, but for the short time I'm in the store, it's tolerable, and I feel more secure when everyone's covered up.

People can choose for themselves how much they want to go into public, but grocery shopping is a necessity. I see people on the Forum asking why driving cars isn't banned, etc., because of the high death numbers. Well, you do have some control over driving your car. You don't have control over a contagious disease, especially when other people have decided not to care about public health. After the pain and suffering of the lockdown, it worries me that people may let this disease get out of hand again because they don't like wearing a mask. Especially as more people pour into town. (And I realize that some people can't wear one, but they are definitely in the minority).

I have never worn a mask in a grocery store or anywhere else for that matter, except when I go into my office in Boston and when I've gone to the dentist and doctor because I have to. It is all nonsense. Prior to the so-called pandemic, I was respectful of other people. Nothing has changed. Generally speaking, I don't invade spaces, and try real hard not to sneeze, cough, breath, etc. on other people when in public. You are worried about masks being worn. Are you as worried about other people picking up and replacing items that you eventually touch? Are you concerned about the countless people who have touched all of the items in the store just to get them on the shelf?

I prefer to stick to Dr. Fraud's first recommendation - that masks are ineffective. You are feeding into and believing the hysteria generated by the media and social media. However, if you are scared and anxious, I recommend that you wear a mask to give you the feeling that you are being safe. As Hill stated, the rest of us are sick of the restrictions. Enough is enough. We have done our share. Let's get back to normalcy ASAP. Disappointingly, this will be impossible since the so-called pandemic has become a political issue. CNN reports that Chinese coronavirus cases are spiking in Georgia, Florida and Texas. Fake news. We learned that fighting the so-called pandemic is a joke when rioting and looting is encouraged.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Major

I have never worn a mask in a grocery store or anywhere else for that matter, except when I go into my office in Boston and when I've gone to the dentist and doctor because I have to. It is all nonsense. Prior to the so-called pandemic, I was respectful of other people. Nothing has changed. Generally speaking, I don't invade spaces, and try real hard not to sneeze, cough, breath, etc. on other people when in public. You are worried about masks being worn. Are you as worried about other people picking up and replacing items that you eventually touch? Are you concerned about the countless people who have touched all of the items in the store just to get them on the shelf?

I prefer to stick to Dr. Fraud's first recommendation - that masks are ineffective. You are feeding into and believing the hysteria generated by the media and social media. However, if you are scared and anxious, I recommend that you wear a mask to give you the feeling that you are being safe. As Hill stated, the rest of us are sick of the restrictions. Enough is enough. We have done our share. Let's get back to normalcy ASAP. Disappointingly, this will be impossible since the so-called pandemic has become a political issue. CNN reports that Chinese coronavirus cases are spiking in Georgia, Florida and Texas. Fake news. We learned that fighting the so-called pandemic is a joke when rioting and looting is encouraged.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, to decided that the spikes being see around the country, in states where they are lifting restrictions is "fake news" is not true. Now where the news is likely to embellish a bit, is just how bad is the resurgence, compared to the initial onset. Those numbers have not be presented. I am expecting to see an up tic in number in Mass. Starting next week. Now when will I get concerned. I am not sure. Currently I am not concerned, I knew that as businesses opened back up, and people got out and about, another spike was going to be natural.

[Major]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

While I agree with most of what you are saying, to decided that the spikes being see around the country, in states where they are lifting restrictions is "fake news" is not true. Now where the news is likely to embellish a bit, is just how bad is the resurgence, compared to the initial onset. Those numbers have not be presented. I am expecting to see an up tic in number in Mass. Starting next week. Now when will I get concerned. I am not sure. Currently I am not concerned, I knew that as businesses opened back up, and people got out and about, another spike was going to be natural.

The reason why they are high is that we are testing more than ever, so naturally new cases will be reported. That aspect is never reported, thus, my characterization as "fake news."

[AC2717]

not to mention that just the mere interaction of people causes colds and the like to spread all which have the same symptoms.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Was in Hanford (Gilford) this morning and I'd say 95% mask usage (myself included).

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by Major

The reason why they are high is that we are testing more than ever, so naturally new cases will be reported. That aspect is never reported, thus, my characterization as "fake news."

except that it's not just the new cases that are surging, it's the cases that require hospitalizations. That has zip to do with increased testing.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

The reason why they are high is that we are testing more than ever, so naturally new cases will be reported. That aspect is never reported, thus, my characterization as "fake news."

So why are states like NY seeing fewer cases with more testing than states like Florida, who had a record high 3207 new cases yesterday?


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Major

CNN reports that Chinese coronavirus cases are spiking in Georgia, Florida and Texas. Fake news.

Not just CNN.

Fox news weighs in on the surge: https://www.foxnews.com/health/flori...onavirus-cases

[Pam]

Originally Posted by Major

I have never worn a mask in a grocery store or anywhere else for that matter, except when I go into my office in Boston and when I've gone to the dentist and doctor because I have to. It is all nonsense. Prior to the so-called pandemic, I was respectful of other people. Nothing has changed. Generally speaking, I don't invade spaces, and try real hard not to sneeze, cough, breath, etc. on other people when in public. You are worried about masks being worn. Are you as worried about other people picking up and replacing items that you eventually touch? Are you concerned about the countless people who have touched all of the items in the store just to get them on the shelf?

I prefer to stick to Dr. Fraud's first recommendation - that masks are ineffective. You are feeding into and believing the hysteria generated by the media and social media. However, if you are scared and anxious, I recommend that you wear a mask to give you the feeling that you are being safe. As Hill stated, the rest of us are sick of the restrictions. Enough is enough. We have done our share. Let's get back to normalcy ASAP. Disappointingly, this will be impossible since the so-called pandemic has become a political issue. CNN reports that Chinese coronavirus cases are spiking in Georgia, Florida and Texas. Fake news. We learned that fighting the so-called pandemic is a joke when rioting and looting is encouraged.

You are correct that a lot isn't known about this disease. The reason that the original recommendation was not to wear masks was two fold: masks were needed for healthcare workers, and originally, it was not known that the virus was spread through aerosol transmission. It's understandable that you're sick of the restrictions. Who isn't? But being sick of something doesn't give people the right to put other people at risk. Maybe you're right, and all this caution is for nothing. But is that really your decision to make in public spaces at this point in time, when the disease is showing a clear comeback in some parts of this country (based on hospitalizations and not just number of positive cases)? I would say no. I would say that's irresponsible. But obviously you're free to do what you want. Here's an article from Science Daily about the effectiveness of masks. I expect you think it's fake news, but for what it's worth: https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0612172200.htm

[garysanfran]

Usually proceeding on the side of caution is good advice...Why noy here?

[Major]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Usually proceeding on the side of caution is good advice...Why noy here?

Not at the expense of our liberties and the economy. We have completely overreacted to this nonsense.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by Major

Not at the expense of our liberties and the economy. We have completely overreacted to this nonsense.

You, by choice, chose to be around others who, by choice, don't want to be around you, but have to because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. And why is your rights more important than mine? I think your macho is dangerous to others...Major!

[Major]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

You, by choice, chose to be around others who, by choice, don't want to be around you, but have to because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. And why is your rights more important than mine? I think your macho is dangerous to others...Major!

That's your opinion. You believe it's dangerous, I believe it's an overreaction and a farce. There is nothing macho about my behavior. I don't think it's dangerous in any way shape or form for a person under 65 with no underlying conditions. It is nearly statistically impossible to die from the dreaded Chinese coronavirus if you are under 70 and in relatively good health. The SCIENCE supports this view. (The average age of death is 82.) If you are old and/or have an underlying condition, then it is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. Just as it has always been. Why is it so difficult to wrap our heads around the notion that there may have been a much, much better way to handle this so-called pandemic? Why is it so difficult to understand that perhaps, just perhaps we should have protected those who are the most vulnerable and allow those of us who work and run businesses to continue our daily lives? You make it sound that you come from a view of authority. I hate to tell you that you and no one knows what they are doing, even the so-called experts.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Major

That's your opinion. You believe it's dangerous, I believe it's an overreaction and a farce. There is nothing macho about my behavior. I don't think it's dangerous in any way shape or form for a person under 65 with no underlying conditions. It is nearly statistically impossible to die from the dreaded Chinese coronavirus if you are under 70 and in relatively good health. The SCIENCE supports this view. (The average age of death is 82.) If you are old and/or have an underlying condition, then it is YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. Just as it has always been. Why is it so difficult to wrap our heads around the notion that there may have been a much, much better way to handle this so-called pandemic? Why is it so difficult to understand that perhaps, just perhaps we should have protected those who are the most vulnerable and allow those of us who work and run businesses to continue our daily lives? You make it sound that you come from a view of authority. I hate to tell you that you and no one knows what they are doing, even the so-called experts.

I am 70 and not compromised by underlying conditions...and I agree wholeheartedly.

[jbolty]

at the risk of further beating a dead horse...

“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask,” Fauci told CBS’s “60 Minutes” on March 8. “When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences—people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

Now we know why he told Americans not to wear masks — he was lying.

“Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N-95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply,” Fauci told The Street. “And we wanted to make sure that the people, namely the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who, you know, were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected,” had access to the masks.

The first paragraph explains why I contend the mask routine is pointless. Most people wear them wrong, touch them, touch their face, then their phone, then their wallet and key pad and everything else in sight and then back to their face to take the mask off again. All this aside from the size of a virus compared to the mesh of a paper mask or bandana. Because of all this I believe the virus has spread way more than any one realizes and it has not mattered much.

[exlakesregioner]

because nowadays it's all about me, me me, and to hell with anyone else

[Major]

Originally Posted by Pam

You are correct that a lot isn't known about this disease. The reason that the original recommendation was not to wear masks was two fold: masks were needed for healthcare workers, and originally, it was not known that the virus was spread through aerosol transmission. It's understandable that you're sick of the restrictions. Who isn't? But being sick of something doesn't give people the right to put other people at risk. Maybe you're right, and all this caution is for nothing. But is that really your decision to make in public spaces at this point in time, when the disease is showing a clear comeback in some parts of this country (based on hospitalizations and not just number of positive cases)? I would say no. I would say that's irresponsible. But obviously you're free to do what you want. Here's an article from Science Daily about the effectiveness of masks. I expect you think it's fake news, but for what it's worth: https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0612172200.htm

We are making this up as we go. At first, we were told that we need to stay home to flatten the curve and not overwhelm healthcare workers. This was supposed to last two weeks. This has turned into a three-month nightmare where far more damage has been caused by destroying businesses and putting people out of work. It is now about control. There is no evidence that our actions have flattened the curve, prevented deaths, etc. In fact, it seems like we got things backwards. We forced healthy people to stay at home and exposed old and compromised people to the virus.

Unless it is a law, it is my decision to make whether to wear a mask, social distance, etc. I haven't worn a mask or social distanced. I've used common sense, and am doing just fine. When my mom came back from Florida, me and my family members have been careful around her since she is compromised. You seem to enjoy being treated like a child. I do not.

The government hacks and politicians making the decisions for us have NO stake in the matter. None of them to the best of my knowledge have missed a paycheck. Dr. Fraud's government organization (NIAID) is guaranteed funding for the next 20+ years. The biggest political whopper (other than "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" or "if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance") is that we are all in this together. My son, who has been furloughed since the beginning of this nonsense, has suffered far more than the government hacks and the politicians. Small business owners have suffered far more than government hacks and politicians. And for what?! A failed social experiment, which proves that the American people do not value liberty. I am disgusted by all this.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by Major

We are making this up as we go. At first, we were told that we need to stay home to flatten the curve and not overwhelm healthcare workers. This was supposed to last two weeks. This has turned into a three-month nightmare where far more damage has been caused by destroying businesses and putting people out of work. It is now about control. There is no evidence that our actions have flattened the curve, prevented deaths, etc. In fact, it seems like we got things backwards. We forced healthy people to stay at home and exposed old and compromised people to the virus.

Unless it is a law, it is my decision to make whether to wear a mask, social distance, etc. I haven't worn a mask or social distanced. I've used common sense, and am doing just fine. When my mom came back from Florida, me and my family members have been careful around her since she is compromised. You seem to enjoy being treated like a child. I do not.

The government hacks and politicians making the decisions for us have NO stake in the matter. None of them to the best of my knowledge have missed a paycheck. Dr. Fraud's government organization (NIAID) is guaranteed funding for the next 20+ years. The biggest political whopper (other than "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" or "if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance") is that we are all in this together. My son, who has been furloughed since the beginning of this nonsense, has suffered far more than the government hacks and the politicians. Small business owners have suffered far more than government hacks and politicians. And for what?! A failed social experiment, which proves that the American people do not value liberty. I am disgusted by all this.

Staying at home lasting only two weeks was if quite literally everyone stayed home for 2 weeks. Shutting everything down and not leaving your home for 2 weeks. If everyone did that, it would have shut the spread down. Obviously that could never happen, at least not in this country. You are correct that this is being made up as we go because so little is known about this new virus.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Major

CNN reports that Chinese coronavirus cases

Is there any reason why you see the need to continue to use such overtly xenophobic language in your posts? And if you don’t understand how this is xenophobic and racist, maybe you can go ask one of your Asian law partners or employees to explain it to you. That is, unless as I suspect, you don’t have any. So instead, you sit behind a pseudonym on a computer.

I have always valued this website and its forums for useful insight on lake issues. I fully understand this “political” forum will consist of views I don’t agree with. But I don’t understand how this perpetuation of xenophobia can continue to be ignored on this site.

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Is there any reason why you see the need to continue to use such overtly xenophobic language in your posts? And if you don’t understand how this is xenophobic and racist, maybe you can go ask one of your Asian law partners or employees to explain it to you. That is, unless as I suspect, you don’t have any. So instead, you sit behind a pseudonym on a computer.

I have always valued this website and its forums for useful insight on lake issues. I fully understand this “political” forum will consist of views I don’t agree with. But I don’t understand how this perpetuation of xenophobia can continue to be ignored on this site.

For the same reason they use words like scared and fear. It's a silly premise. Do you wear a seat belt because you're scared?

For people who like to call others sheep, they sure do all use the same script.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Is there any reason why you see the need to continue to use such overtly xenophobic language in your posts? And if you don’t understand how this is xenophobic and racist, maybe you can go ask one of your Asian law partners or employees to explain it to you. That is, unless as I suspect, you don’t have any. So instead, you sit behind a pseudonym on a computer.

I have always valued this website and its forums for useful insight on lake issues. I fully understand this “political” forum will consist of views I don’t agree with. But I don’t understand how this perpetuation of xenophobia can continue to be ignored on this site.

I wish there was a “VOMIT” button I could use. Good lord!

[Phantom]

I think the bigger point has been missed here-

In MA, it is still "required" to have a mask on in public
In NH, it is not -- simple- live "Free or Die"

HOWEVER - Every major chain store in the country that I know of has issued a Company Policy that REQUIRES employee's to wear masks on the job!

Thus, to Pam's original post - "even the guy at the fish counter wasn't wearing one when he waited on me. It was under his chin" This individual is simply being stubborn & should have been reported to store management (especially in light of the Counter he was working). I am sure the Store Manager would be horrified.

On the other hand, I fully understand that wearing a mask all day is quite irritating -- but the employee should have backed away from the counter & taken a break- not serve a customer should that be his/her rationale.

[FlyingScot]

Here's a great test case that shows the value of masks in a setting that is as close as possible to a lab test--a hair salon with 2 infected stylists and no infected clients. Direct from the heart of Trump Country, it made believers out of skeptics similar to Major:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...lons-missouri/

[Major]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Is there any reason why you see the need to continue to use such overtly xenophobic language in your posts? And if you don’t understand how this is xenophobic and racist, maybe you can go ask one of your Asian law partners or employees to explain it to you. That is, unless as I suspect, you don’t have any. So instead, you sit behind a pseudonym on a computer.

I have always valued this website and its forums for useful insight on lake issues. I fully understand this “political” forum will consist of views I don’t agree with. But I don’t understand how this perpetuation of xenophobia can continue to be ignored on this site.

There is absolutely nothing racists or xenophobic about labeling the flu the Chinese coronavirus or my personal favorite the Wuhan Bat Flu. My liberal friends have taught me that everything and everyone requires a label. For the record, I am a straight white middle-aged male, the lowest rung of the WOK ladder. I label the flu as such to annoy people like you, who place far more value in words rather than actions.

To answer your question, one of my law partners is from China and we have several employees from China. I will tell you what I have (or in some words) told them. I have no issues whatsoever with any people from any country. My experiences with ex-pats from China is that they are a warm, caring, humble, and smart (very smart for that matter) people, who came to the U.S. to escape communist rule. However, I detest with the hatred of a thousand suns the Chinese communist government. The one thing this so-called pandemic has taught us is that the U.S. should extricate itself from China and any other government who does not value freedom and liberty.

Calling someone a racists shows that you have lost the argument. It shows the shallowness of your character and world views. I actually feel sorry for you.

Peace

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Major

To answer your question, one of my law partners is from China and we have several employees from China.

My actual question, Major, is whether you have ever used the term “Chinese coronavirus” with your Chinese partners or employees? Or do you just use the term hiding behind a pseudonym on the internet?

[Major]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

My actual question, Major, is whether you have ever used the term “Chinese coronavirus” with your Chinese partners or employees? Or do you just use the term hiding behind a pseudonym on the internet?

If anything I'm consistent. Yes. There is absolutely no shame in labeling it, as I would the Spanish Flu.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Major

If anything I'm consistent. Yes. There is absolutely no shame in labeling it, as I would the Spanish Flu.

Somehow I doubt that. In any event, you are either completely tone deaf to your Chinese colleagues (who I’m sure praised your choice of term and gave you a high five instead of rolling their eyes in shock behind your back), or, as I suspect is more likely, you don’t actually use the term with them because you are smart enough to know better.

[Major]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Somehow I doubt that. In any event, you are either completely tone deaf to your Chinese colleagues (who I’m sure praised your choice of term and gave you a high five instead of rolling their eyes in shock behind your back), or, as I suspect is more likely, you don’t actually use the term with them because you are smart enough to know better.

I usually refer to it as the virus, but on several calls I have called it the Chinese Coronavirus or the Wuhan Bat Flu. People have a sense of humor and appreciate the levity.

Why are we so twisted about common sense words and labels for things? Some of the most unenlightened people I know are all PC about words, yet their actions betray something else. If we've gotten to the point where "Chinese Coronavirus" is offensive then we've lost our bearing as a society. People need to chill.

Under no circumstances is Chinese coronavirus offensive. It is made up by the left to be offended by yet another thing. I refuse to buy into this type of group think.

[Patofnaud]

Interesting read, even if it is from NBC...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...perts-n1165366

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Patofnaud

Interesting read, even if it is from NBC...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-a...perts-n1165366

But Patofnaud, that would [gasp] require us to put ourselves in the shoes of others and look at how things might be perceived from their perspective. That would just be too “virtuous” and “nastiness.”

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

But Patofnaud, that would [gasp] require us to put ourselves in the shoes of others and look at how things might be perceived from their perspective. That would just be too “virtuous” and “nastiness.”

I love that you say this but refuse to consider another perspective (shared by many, many of us) that doesn't match your own. There's a word for that I think.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Bigstan

I love that you say this but refuse to consider another perspective (shared by many, many of us) that doesn't match your own. There's a word for that I think.

How about cost-benefit? If wearing a mask is useless, what’s the harm. On the other hand, if as now generally excepted in the medical community, wearing masks help limit the spread, there is obvious benefit. The problem is that those who don’t wear masks will never know if or who they spread the virus to, and whether or not those people got severely ill or even die.

Sometimes you cannot obviate fundamental truths with “difference of views.” We’re not talking about differences of opinion on the appropriate size of government, or bottoms up economics. These individual choices have actual consequences on others.

You can rest easy, I am done with this thread. You can go back to your regularly scheduled Fox News programming for your talking points.

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

You can rest easy, I am done with this thread. You can go back to your regularly scheduled Fox News programming for your talking points.

And there we are. If we don't agree with you then we must be mindless red hat wearing fools who rely on Fox news to know what their opinion should be?

This is how divisiveness happens folks, you agree with us or (insert your favorite here, Fox news works). Shocking the direction it's coming from

Just agree that you won't tolerate an alternate view on this, as that's the truth and there's nothing wrong with being honest.

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

How about cost-benefit? If wearing a mask is useless, what’s the harm. On the other hand, if as now generally excepted in the medical community, wearing masks help limit the spread, there is obvious benefit. The problem is that those who don’t wear masks will never know if or who they spread the virus to, and whether or not those people got severely ill or even die.

Sometimes you cannot obviate fundamental truths with “difference of views.” We’re not talking about differences of opinion on the appropriate size of government, or bottoms up economics. These individual choices have actual consequences on others.

You can rest easy, I am done with this thread. You can go back to your regularly scheduled Fox News programming for your talking points.

Hoo boy. Most conservatives watch more than just Fox. They watch CNN, MSNBC for comparison.

[dickiej]

This is not about the effectiveness or non effectiveness of masks....it's about "the government isn't going to tell me what to do." Do the people who don't wear masks also not pay their taxes? I live in the Pacific Northwest and we have loads of "preppers" out here....they buy land, build a house, put a gate across the driveway and hang up about 10 NO TRESPASSING signs. They won't even put their street numbers up...."I don't want anybody to know where I live"