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#1 |
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Easter is 17 days from now.
***** says he wants the nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter" because Easter is "a beautiful time. A beautiful timeline." The CDC says, "The United States nationally is in the INITIATION phase of the pandemic." That means we're not at the end; we're at the beginning of this crisis. Anthony Fauci: "“I cannot see that all of a sudden, next week or two weeks from now it's going to be over. I don't think there's a chance of that." Report from 8 infectious-disease modeling researchers, University of Massachusetts Amherst: "Only 12% of all coronavirus cases (including asymptomatic ones) had been reported in the US as of March 15. . . .The average of the researchers' predictions suggests that the virus could kill around 195,000 people in the US by the end of the year." Other experts predict over 2 million deaths in the US if more decisive action is not taken now. Questions: (1) Does ***** have the constitutional power to do something irrational, like ordering businesses to reopen, that will lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths? (2) Whether he has the legal power or not, will anyone step in to stop him? These questions may sound political, but essentially they're about our survival. Regardless of political leanings, a leader who does not understand or accept the scientific facts about a pandemic and does not listen to experts is himself a major threat to the survival of the nation and world. At this point our food sources are apparently secure. When COVID-19 strikes thousands of people involved in the production and distribution of food, our food sources will no longer be secure---they will either dwindle or they will be infected, or both. Civil unrest will follow because people who don't have food do desperate things. This is what will happen if virus carriers return to work by Easter. The economy will be harmed far more than it is now. Coronavirus poll results:
Those polls mean that one-half of your neighbors are not going to be motivated to use social distancing, self-isolate if they're sick, or follow public health directives that limit the freedoms they're accustomed to. They also will not be motivated to demand rational countermeasures from their local, state, and federal authorities. This crisis is about two things: science (facts) and human behavior. The science and facts are what they are. Human behavior is influenceable only to a certain extent. When people are driven by beliefs and emotions, and those are not based on science and facts, the outcome is going to be grim. When a leader's decisions are not based on science and facts, and he models actions that are not based on facts, the outcome is going to be grim. Is COVID-19 not yet at your personal doorstep? It will be soon. One of my friends has it right now. Another friend died 10 days ago because he couldn't get proper medical care for another illness because the hospital in his area was overwhelmed by COVID-19. If you have a heart attack and your local hospital is dealing with an onslaught of COVID-19 cases, you might not get care. You think that big red dot around New York City on the COVID-19 map isn't going to expand into New Hampshire? It already is. The nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter"? This is magical thinking that threatens all of us, no matter what your personal politics are. |
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#2 |
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You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap. |
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#3 |
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My soon to be sacrificed mother-in-law, for the economy, always said never trust a man that dyes his (or someone elses) hair platinum blonde and paints his face basketball orange. LOL
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#4 |
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#5 |
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Well, I guess we'll know for sure in just a couple of weeks whether SailinAway or our President is the more reliable forecaster....Or maybe it's a couple of weeks after that?
Let's hope it's the President, but let's not pretend that he's a better bet than Dr Fauci and the rest of the medical establishment |
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#6 |
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The words themselves would be calming and encouraging coming from a reliable source. BUT how can anyone but a dolt really be encouraged when everyone, including many of his supporters, recognize that he is not a reliable source? Usually, his supporters recognize his difficulty with the truth by commenting “he really didn’t mean that” or “ you know how he is.” His words just are not credible enough to really be hopeful.
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#7 | |
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Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#8 |
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My sympathies go out to those who have contracted TDS. ***** Derangement Syndrome. Much worse for this country than the China Virus. It rots the brain and makes one unable to think clearly. We are lucky that with quarantine from the main stream media and an openness to new ideas it can be cured. Good luck
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#9 |
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I would suggest everyone watch the actual press conferences and always go to the source of data rather than the news. In this day in age the actual source and date it is available to everyone. The news has become something else. If you watch the press conference he was very clear that he didn't mean the entire country, he was optimistic if an area is uneffected/undercontrol and measures can be taken to ensure that. Then it should have the requirements eased. He certainly was not saying NYC is going to be open for business or the entire country.
Last edited by birchhaven; 03-26-2020 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Grammer |
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#10 |
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Can you point us to the data that shows that it will be safe to reopen businesses in 17 days?
California and New York---two of the country's main economic engines---are under assault from the virus. Hotspots around Detroit and Chicago were identified today. |
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#11 |
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Regular gasoline is 1.599/gal at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, close to Little Squam Lake. Filled up the tank for about $16 and there was just two other cars there. Was pretty quiet for a low price like that ...... 1.599/gal for no name gas.
For my econo-box car with the hit & run, side crush ..... gas is gas is gas ..... and all that matters is the price.
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#12 | |
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#13 |
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Hmmmm..............It is interesting that the virus hot spots also seem to be Sanctuary Cities? Hmmmm.............
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#14 |
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I don't think the data is complete so I am not gonna draw a conclusion. I did find it interesting that the virus was probably here for weeks/months being diagnosed as the "regular" flu and that it took ER visits for it to be properly diagnosed. I am not saying you are wrong for being upset. This is terrible. Maybe misdirected maybe not. But don't get your news from Fox or CNN. Don't even watch them. Everything is an editorial, opinion, hot take, not news. We now can see real news straight from the source go find it. That is what the internet is for. Why it is powerful. Why some nations censor it.
I think the inability to test and how some don't show symptoms is why this is so dangerous and why it is so much more wide spread than the data shows. This site is not accurate but best I have found https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ Look at other nations data they reported and then look at Chinas definitely does not follow same trend. Just saying 🐠 |
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#15 | |
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There will be no normally functioning economy if our hospitals are overwhelmed and thousands of Americans of all ages, including our doctors and nurses, lay dying because we have failed to do what’s necessary to stop the virus. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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#16 |
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When H1N1 hit the US in 2009, I think it was over 6 months and 1,000 people dead before Obama declared a national health emergency. Estimates put the total deaths in the US at over 13,000 with those going to the hospital around 275,000 and those suspected to have contracted it around 60 Million.
Can’t recall him ever telling people to distance themselves for 14 days or close borders to try to slow it down like ***** did. No one seem to critical of his actions back then. This "seems" like a more contagious strain but if we are talking about the differences in how presidents responded to saves lives, does not even seem close. We can argue about not wanting ***** steering this ship but at least someone has his/her hands on the wheel this time. Just saying… |
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#17 |
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Apparently, this year's Monday, April 13 Easter egg roll on the White House lawn has been cancelled ..... www.whitehouse.gov/eastereggroll/ ..... that's always a fun event where the White House lawn is open to the public via an admission lottery held from Feb 18-24 .... it is not happening this year.
Better to be safe, than sorry. It would have been the 142nd Easter egg roll held by the White House. (from the link above)
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#18 |
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Stupid, waste of time, political thread.
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#20 |
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Paying $1.59 for gas at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, which has spaces for about six cars at six pumps is something like the lowest price in years, maybe since 2001.
About three years ago, the two Rt 93-Exit 25 stations were at 1.92, and that seemed very low after paying 3.99, the year earlier. $1.599 for no name gas is low-low-low ..... and my car runs perfectly fine with it, as always, going close now to 200,000 miles on the 'riginal four spark plugs ..... a 2013 Scion xB with a 5-speed stick. ..... driv'n that golden road ..... to that Golden Pond store ..... for some low-priced, golden gasoline ..... in that 5th golden gear ..... is so totally golden!
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#21 |
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#22 | |
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https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...swine-flu.html Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
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#23 |
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Hmmm...sounds very familiar to what schifty pencil necked schiff did during the weak and twisted attempt to bring our president down by impeachment. He delivered a diatribe that put words in our President’s mouth that were never remotely, uttered. Surely a democrat trait?
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#24 | |
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#25 |
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If you want to get a close-up look at people in Bergamo, Italy in hospitals really suffering from the Covid-19 virus ...... you can google ....... 'We take the dead from morning to night' ....... to see a March 27, NY Times photo-report without having a paid subscription and it has a lot of photos.
Is a real eye opener, and deepest, deepest sympathy for these suffering people in Italy .... it is truly terrible. So, every morning when you first wake up, do you check your throat to confirm that it is working as it should? Is the throat still good? Ok, so yesterday-middle of the day, about 1-pm, I'm in the Meredith Hannaford frozen food aisle looking at Marie Callender items, and one of the Hannaford employees, a guy, gives me an unusual, extra hard stare at me, couldn't figure that out at the time, and now I'm thinking I was too close ..... and was probably five feet away at the time while opening the freezer door. You know, you think to yourself ...... like, what is going on here, did I just do something wrong?
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... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 03-27-2020 at 12:23 PM. |
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#26 | |
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Just more of the swamp sludge sloshing around the capitol while the little guy is going down the toilet. |
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#27 | |
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As for the little guy going down the toilet maybe you can articulate that as well? |
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#28 | |
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Do you really think this is a time to "donate" that kind of money to foreign countries where so many of our own are out of a job or are going to be out of a job? What does the Kennedy Center have to do with this pandemic??...and there are many many other special interests trying to be added or have been added to this bill! Honestly can you tell me why on earth the bill should include ANYTHING but relief efforts for US citizens due to the Covid19 virus?...and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong?? Dan
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#29 | |
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"[T]o put it bluntly, the United States will not be safe from this pandemic until the world is safe from this pandemic—without widespread access to a vaccine or countermeasures, cases rebound quickly when quarantines are lifted as has been shown in Singapore and Hong Kong this week," read a letter the CGD sent to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., last week. The funding for these three international organizations was not an 11th-hour addition; it was included in the original Republican version of the coronavirus bill." https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cor...al-development |
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#30 |
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Interesting read......some people contribute facts with references and others provide statements without contect or research.
H1N1: Did you know that at the outbreak it was concluded and later proven that the majority of the US and European population already had immunities due to the flu in 1960? The relief package is an attempt to provide employers with money to continue to pay their employees even though the company is not taking in any revenue. Non profits such as the Kennedy Center, Smithsonian, and so many others employ thousands of people. The grants are being provided so that they can continue to pay employees. Perhaps we should not be so quick to just take sound bites and react? Afterall, those that post the oneliner sound bites that are designed to anger and divide have a bigger objective than just your sound mind and health. |
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#31 | |
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Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you?? Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no? Dan
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#32 |
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Here is one of the best articles I have seen regarding the so called "Stimulus Bill".
It comes from the very left leaning CNN but this journalist put his political partisanship aside to put forth this very true picture of what is occurring in DC in regards to this pork filled bill... https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opini...llo/index.html Dan
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#33 | |
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From an air traffic controller to a pilot under control: "I have a dog with one blue eye." FACT ! |
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#34 |
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Hit the other children with you plastic shovels...
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#36 | |
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![]() ......he must have wandered into that CNN building thinking it was FoxNews, sat down and started writing ........ ???
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![]() I honestly didn't know he was a republican. I just assumed (my first mistake) that since he was writing for CNN...well you understand. ![]() Either way he still wrote a factual, heartfelt and non partisan article on the crap going on in DC regarding the stimulus bill to which I agree fully. Dan
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#38 |
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I can understand the government wanting to help its distressed citizens, but why should any money go to corporations?
They don't vote, they can't contract the coronavirus. Oh, and how in hell is the treasury going to come up with an extra two trillion dollars? The national deficit mounts and nobody, but nobody, seems to care. It's almost enough to make me think fondly of Bill Clinton: at least he knew what a balanced budget was.
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Interesting that the country is supposed to be "back in business" by April 12 th, that's 15 or 16 days from now.
Per John Hopkins University real time website, the US has topped 100, 000. Just before 6pm, we were at 100,717 cases. (On March 22nd, this time of day, around 6pm, we were at 32,600). Easter is tremendously optimistic, in my humble opinion. Dave
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Believe he will ask those willing to start opening. Oh course, just as the social isolation is voluntary so won’t the opening be. The big box stores and major chains will open. Small restaurants will with reduced hours and wider seating areas.
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COVID-19 (as of 27th March) 4.6% mortality (worldwide) 1.5% (US) "But we're not finding everyone who has COVID-19! Many people will be walking around and not know they have it!" How much under-reporting makes this not an issue for you? 2x so maybe the mortality rate is only 0.75% (2.5million expected US deaths)? 10x, getting to 0.15% (0.5million expected US deaths)? Really, just tell us what your number is. Ignore the data, ignore what might or might not be counted. How many potentially preventable US deaths from COVID-19 is acceptable to you to prevent "crashing the economy"? If your answer is you don't care about the number, that's fine, just have the balls to say it. |
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We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s see where things shake out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by Major; 03-27-2020 at 07:44 PM. |
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#46 | |
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Would you prefer to lift all restrictions immediately until we have a firmer grasp on the lethality? How many tests, positive cases and deaths would be enough for you to consider it worse than H1N1 and worth shutting down the economy to save lives? |
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I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.
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We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data
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You say we have overreacted, would you advocate returning to normal tomorrow? |
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And this is despite the various State stay-at-home orders, and *****s perfect 'early action' on shutting down travel from China. So what's next? You would declare a state of emergency tonight, and then...? |
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This virus is going to be around for years. As many have said the shelter in place allows the medical community to get up to speed and put procedures in place on how to handle the infected. If you think you can avoid it you are more miss informed then you are showing here. If you are allergic to something you take precautions. How is this different?
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COVID-19 has now killed 1500 in 2 months (and is rising exponentially). But COVID-19 is not more serious than H1N1? |
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It sounds like you agree that stay at home measures and flattening the curve is important to avoid overwhelming our medical facilities and to give us time to develop vaccines/treatments? So that if/when it resurges, we can deal with it just like the regular flu? But please can you share the data that shows we can safely "soft open" by Easter? |
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This is not that. We have hit the iceberg, the hold is filling with water, the ship is listing into ice-freezing water. We are going to lose up to 30k, or more, in April alone. According to your way of thinking if you jumped off a 10 story building you would be thinking the first 9 floors were ok, maybe this will work out.... because why trust projections?
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I heard ***** say he thinks we can open by Easter because it's a "beautiful day". In comparison, Dr Anthony Fauci (the actual expert on the briefing team) says "“You’ve got to be realistic, and you’ve got to understand that you don’t make the timeline, the virus makes the timeline. So you’ve got to respond to what you see happen, and if you keep seeing this acceleration, it doesn’t matter what you say, one week, two weeks, three weeks, you’ve got to go with what the situation on the ground is” I have not seen any data that suggests that Easter is remotely feasible. So if you are saying you base your decisions on data, why do you take *****'s word over the actual experts? I can almost get on board with Major's assertion that *****s claim is just an aspirational date to inspire calm and confidence. I completely disagree with him, and think ***** is simply delusional and offering up dangerous misinformation. But at least he isn't claiming that the Easter timeline is based on any actual data, or endorsed by experts. |
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I guess time will tell what the final numbers show.
Most curves predict this peaking in mid-April but no one seems to know for sure. To shift gears a bit - it is true slowing the cases // flattening the curve is to allow the medical system in the US to not be overwhelmed. Vaccine-wise > they say they are working on one (which is great) but that will be very interesting as today we have a lot people that refuse vaccines that have been around for many, many, many years. Here comes one developed in 6 to 10 months and would be brand new. Who wants to be first in line? Going to be very hard to get young people to want that. |
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For those looking for “data” here is the latest
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You can only protect yourself during a pandemic (war, natural disaster, etc.) by having the facts so you can make intelligent decisions. What is the extent of the current threat? Am I safe where I am? Is it safe to go outside? Would I be safer in another state or country? Is the threat currently increasing, decreasing, or staying the same? What do the experts predict is going to happen? What facts do they base their predictions on? What are they advising us to do? My personal beliefs are far less useful for saving me right now than fact-based expert opinions. There is some divergence among experts, but it's not huge. There is more or less unanimous agreement that the COVID-19 crisis isn't going to be over in the next two weeks, that it's going to last many more weeks or months, that there's a good chance that it will return next season, and that it's unlikely that a vaccine will be ready in time for the next season. In all the articles I've read that were written by experts (epidemiologists, doctors) or that quoted experts, none has ever mentioned their political affiliation. This is not about winning a political argument; it's about survival. Whether I'm a Democrat or Republican, I want to survive. For that we need the facts and expert opinions based on them. We have no choice but to rely on experts, especially those who have closely studied the evolution of COVID-19 in other countries and can draw lessons from those countries, such as how China was able to significantly slow the spread of the virus and why Italy is on a disastrous course. There is no need to put blind trust in the experts if that makes you uncomfortable---the facts that they base their predictions and recommendations on are available online. You can either read the original scientific studies directly, or you can read summaries of them in trustworthy apolitical sources. Here's an article that explains the mathematics behind social distancing, for example: https://www.vox.com/2020/3/15/211803...ial-distancing The question is whether people want to know the facts and whether they can understand them and make rational decisions based on them. None of those is a given. When this crisis is over it will be seen that ultimately it was human psychological tendencies that turned COVID-19 into a pandemic---the tendency to think that disasters happen to other people or other countries, the tendency to procrastinate, to hold onto beliefs that make us feel better or look better, deliberately concealing information for political reasons (China), our unwillingness to consider positions contrary to our own, and so on. I'll gladly lose the political argument if it means I'm more likely to survive. Politicizing a virus is foolhardy. |
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OANN say "Meanwhile, Fauci’s backtracking seemed to give credence to some members of the GOP, who have argued the media is over-sensationalizing how lethal the virus is. It also came after the president hinted he may break with experts, specifically regarding opening the economy back up by Easter." No, it did not come after the President started talking about opening up at Easter. It came on Feb 28th. It was also speculative that it "may" not be that lethal. On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu, even if the mortality rate drops far below the World Health Organization’s current estimate of 3.4%." I would suggest not relying on OANN for truthfulness. |
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What exactly is your point about comparing military projections of the invasion of Europe to the track of projected covid deaths. I am sure there was supposed to be a point. I just can't find it.
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Here is the PDF It was included in the NEJM on March 26th but it says right in the article "This editorial was published on February 28, 2020, at NEJM.org" |
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The majority of our workforce is the least affected.
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![]() And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost - 5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized) 6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured) 150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products 150,000 due to heart disease 20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol 10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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You say we have overreacted but we hit the point that you would react at all yesterday (3 times quicker than H1N1), and that’s despite the measures put in place due to the “overreaction”. Also despite the “overreaction” every ‘curve’ in the US is still on an upwards trajectory. |
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“More cases of COVID-19 are likely to be identified in the United States in the coming days, including more instances of community spread. CDC expects that widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States will occur. In the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus. Widespread transmission of COVID-19 could translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, and workplaces, may experience more absenteeism. Mass gatherings may be sparsely attended or postponed. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and sectors of the transportation industry may also be affected. Healthcare providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions will be the most important response strategy to try to delay the spread of the virus and reduce the impact of disease.” |
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The quickness of the spread is overwhelming our health care system and this is with the measures we've taken. What happens if we lose all these health care workers to sickness? Who is going to take care of the sick, you? |
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All the side effects as described are already happening anyways as mandated by the government to shutdown or severely cripple businesses, movement of people and social gatherings. Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu. So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!? Whole thing is turning hysterically comical. I think half the population is scared of their own shadow for cripes sake. |
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But dear leader ***** thinks we can open up by Easter based on his gut feeling and the fact that Easter is a 'beautiful day'. NOW THERE'S SOME ANALYSIS I CAN GET ON BOARD WITH!" |
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Panic from the public is expected. The level of panic from the professionals is disappointing. They are the ones trained and expected to provide and guide the public though times like these, they can do better
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I am sure the current infection and death rate are very, very under counted. Many more are already infected and many have died that have not been counted. Can I prove that? Nope. But I can prove that people have had it but not been tested and I can logically infer that people who die that were not tested do not show up as a stat. I cannot help wondering what mental mindset a person has to have that it is important to their own psyche to deny the obvious. I know Major has already confessed to being a dolt, so at least I understand him. |
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Also, what happens when food supply workers get sick? Farmers, harvesters, packers, truck drivers, grocery store employees. Who is going to provide our food?
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On Friday COVID-19 killed 332 people in a single day, and this number is climbing daily. |
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Your post encourages me because I'm pretty sure I'm going to outlive you, since you probably aren't going to be taking precautions to protect yourself from this fake pandemic. On the other hand, there's a high likelihood that your disbelief is going to kill me.
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The news is full of first-person, on-the-scene accounts from doctors and nurses describing what it's like to be trying to treat people with inadequate equipment (ventilators, etc.) and personal protection, with no cure for the virus, in chaotic hospitals. How could they not be panicking? What reason do the rest of us have for not being alarmed?
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Health workers can only provide healthcare and guide the public through the crisis if they have the support of a government that is making rational decisions about the crisis, responding to it in a timely manner, and providing health workers with the facilities and equipment they need. This is not what has happened. You would panic too if you were too dedicated to abandon a job that was likely to kill you.
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