New Powerboat Purchase - Help

[skisox24]

OK, I know its not financially wise to buy new. However, I am at the age where I would prefer to pay for warranty work than unknown or hidden damage. I will take the first year depreciation hit.

Never bought new before. What is a reasonable price vis-a-vis dealer cost for a new boat in today's economic environment? If I were buying an auto, I would definitely be holding out for well below dealer cost. Does it work the same in the marine world?

Any thoughts or help appreciated.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by skisox24

OK, I know its not financially wise to buy new. However, I am at the age where I would prefer to pay for warranty work than unknown or hidden damage. I will take the first year depreciation hit.

Never bought new before. What is a reasonable price vis-a-vis dealer cost for a new boat in today's economic environment? If I were buying an auto, I would definitely be holding out for well below dealer cost. Does it work the same in the marine world?

Any thoughts or help appreciated.

Let's face it, a new car dealer is not selling to you below their cost. Simple marketing gimic if they claim to be. Even at "invoice" price that they claim to be their cost there is dealer/mfg holdbacks, rebates, floor plan incentives, etc that allow them to be competitive and still make money in the current "sell at or below invoice" pricing schemes.

What type of boat are you looking for? Depending on the value of the boat there can be a fairly large spread between cost and msrp. On a leftover new boat you will do better than a current model year, but I doubt unless they are destitute that you will see them selling at a loss.

[Michael Venoit]

I can’t speak for the rest but I’m one who likes to spend my time on the water rather then spending time working on the boat. I can tell you the last couple of boats I have bought have only cost me $20.00 in depreciation per running hour. For me that’s worth every dime!!! I have also Bought used and had relatively good luck but if you want all the bells and whistles go NEW…

[jrc]

There's nothing like a new boat

A lot depends on the size style and brand of boat. For a mainstream production boat, I'd use 20-25% off MSRP as a starting point. If you can get around there you are paying what most people pay. A popular brand, a new model, a performance boat and luxury brand may give less discount or make you work harder to get it. An entry-level loss leader might be a lot less. A left-over or stale model should be better.

Any better than that and you have to work at it. If you want to get best prices you can't be in a hurry and have to be prepared to walk away. Car dealer have essentially an infinite supply of cars, they can make money just by moving a lot of cars. Boats take time to order and the season is short. A boat dealer has to maximize profit on each boat he sells. He may be willing to let you get away, even from a profitable deal, if there's a more profitable deal possible.

[Phantom]

First of all, I agree with everything that has been stated so far.

With regards to a new boat decision, unfortunately skisox24 I think you have the decision process a little backwards. At least to me, the biggest decision is "the boat" ...... not the dealer, ---after saying that--there is a dealer or two that I would cringe at having to deal with (and they will remain nameless).

At any rate, you need to focus on the boat -- what general size, what are your family needs, what amenities would you need aboard (versus desire) i.e. head, canvas, what interior layout suits your boating, etc ................ and start your process there! And for absolute confidence ...... be sure to take one for a ride!!! You'll be amazed to find that "all boats are NOT created equal" .............. it's what suits your needs that counts. It's an asset, just like a car.

p.s. -- with nothing to do with spped ---- seriously consider the largest possible engine the boat is designed for (within reason). Too many folks sacrifice the engine size over amenities -- leaving the boat "underpowered" for it's size/weight and the regrets last for years ........................... spoken from experiance


Best of Luck ........... and as with that "New Car Smell" ................ there's nothing like "your new boat" !

[Silver Duck]

skisox24

While I agree with most of what Phantom said, I respectfully disagree about the importance of choosing the right dealer. Boats are not like cars; they are pretty much hand made items and even (maybe especially) a new boat will probably need "tweaking" during it's first season of use.

In all likelihood, even with a new boat, the quality of the dealer's service organization will play a major role in determining how happy you are with your purchase.

With that said, I'd suggest that you see whether Shep Brown's has a boat that fits your needs. I've bought 3 new boats from them, and they've taken very good care of me!

Silver Duck

[Bear Islander]

I must agree with Silver Duck about the importance of the dealer, and that Shep Browns is the best.

If you trailer to the lake the location of the dealership is not that critical. But if you leave the boat in the water it's great to be able to pick up and drop off at a local dealer.

The best buy will be on last years models. Keep in mind that good marinas are interested in long term relationships. They want to sell you the boat, rent you the slip, sell you the gas, provide winter storage and future maintenance.

[steadyon]

I had a great experience with Irwins when I bought new 4 years ago.
the best thing that I ever did for myself, as others have said there is nothing like a new boat.
gool luck shopping!

[BlackCatIslander]

I agree with Silver Duck and Bear Islander on their recommendation. I have bought two boats from them and recommend them highly.

[codeman671]

I must agree on Shep Browns. I will also put a plug in for Gillan Marine and Silver Sands though. I really like Ernie Gillan and find him great to deal with. We have bought from Silver Sands as well and have had good luck.

I am not a fan of Fay's however many disagree.

What brands are you looking at so that we can steer you in the right direction?

[dpg]

You have never held out for below dealer cost. No dealer would let a vehicle go (new) and lose money on it. Maybe they will let it go at THEIR cost or a FEW dollars below but when they do it's because there's lots of mfg. incentives coming back to them picking up the difference anyway.

[liberator211]

Skisox24 I work in the industry and have to agree with most of what has been said. Boat dealerships, while similar, are not like care dealers at all. First and foremost we don't have endless rebates and incentives. If dealers are telling you that rebates are ending at the end of this month they are telling you the truth and not trying to pressure you into a sale. In the car world rebates seem to be a revolving door where when one ends another one begins. Boat manufactures give rebates at the beginning of the year to help out dealerships at the boat shows around the country. Many manufactures will not have rebates until probably mid summer so now is a good time to buy. Like previously stated by others you best deal will be on a leftover boat but make sure that the boat still has full warranties and that the warranties take into effect the day you take delivery. FYI the dealer will not take a loss unless the boat is now two model years old so 2006 or even older. In terms of motor size it will depend on the brand of boat. Higher end brands tend to power their boats appropriately while lower end brands can be underpowered. I must respectfully disagree with the maximum hp suggestions stated earlier. Getting an engine upgrade might be wise but usually the maximum horsepower has an extremely high cost associated with it. One of the problems is that you will not see this high cost on the resale end. If a boat has a standard 5.0L MPT 260 hp motor it might be wise to spend a few thousand to get a 350 MAG MPI 300 hp. The next engine and maybe the maximum would be a 6.2L MPI 320 hp. The maximum hp is going to cost you even a few thousand more. On a trade I would be able to offer not much more for the boat with a 6.2 than the boat with the 350 mag. One last note; don’t settle for something you don’t want/need just because it seem like a great “deal”. Decide what you want and get the best deal for what you need. If anybody has any questions feel free to ask me. Have a great day.

[Cristen]

I am also a a big fan of buying new. All of the cars I have ever owned were new, as well as the bike and jet skis.

As for a boat, I would seriously consider buying "used". The reason is because many people buy boats and realize they don't use enough to keep it. Often, people will sell newer used boats with very little hours on them. I would think that a warranty would carry over as well.

Anyway, good luck with your new toy!

[Seeker]

As the owner of many new and used boats over the past 55 years I would strongly urge someone looking for a larger 28'+ boat to consider used. Many would be skippers buy the first boat they get talked into and then discover it's either too large, too small or it's just not right for them. I have seen a person at my old marina (about the largest in the northeast) buy 3 boats in one season just to get one he could run and then wound up hiring a captain to run it. Granted most people are not that rich or stupid but it just shows that there were 2 nearly new boats available at bargain prices.
Smaller runabout types tend to be used a lot more and a lot harder so if I were in the market for one I would definitely look for a new one.
Whatever, make sure your sale is conditional on a 'sea trial' (test drive) to insure all is well with the vessel. If the dealer won't go for it then walk quickly away.
JMHO

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I must agree with Silver Duck about the importance of the dealer, and that Shep Browns is the best.

Bear Islander once again I must concur with you! Shep's is the BEST! Bill Littlefield is excellent! I would highly recommend Shep Brown's. Monterey Boats offer a great variety to suit many tastes. The fit and finish is comparable to boats priced much higher.

I have to agree with another post that suggested purchasing a leftover model. Often times you can score a great deal on last years model. I paid substantially less for my 248LS last year because it was the previous years model. It was still a brand new boat with all the applicable warranties and there were no real differences between the two.

[skisox24]

I am blown away. While I have posted many time on this site in the past, this is the first time that I have devoted my post to an issue that is very personal to me. I very much appreciate EVERYONE's help and comments. All of the post replies have been very useful in providing context for my purchase.

Thank you for those of you that have helped me live with the guilt of buying NEW vs. USED. Over the years I have been advised by the vast majority of my friends and acquaintenances that buying NEW is like throwing money down the drain. I know that buying new is not usually the most cost effective way to buy, but there is a value to eliminating that uncertaintly of what problems might be lurking below the surface with a used vessel. Peace of mind is worth $$$$$ to me at my age.

For those of you that have asked, Shep Brown's is high on my list, and they have a boat that I am considering for purchase. It is a 2007 model Monterey. I am also looking at a new Cobalt model, and a used (but recent model year and low hours) Crownline.

Thanks to all for the vote of confidence. I hope to see you all on the lake not too many weeks after ice-out!!!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Bear Islander once again I must concur with you! Shep's is the BEST! Bill Littlefield is excellent! I would highly recommend Shep Brown's. Monterey Boats offer a great variety to suit many tastes. The fit and finish is comparable to boats priced much higher.

I have to agree with another post that suggested purchasing a leftover model. Often times you can score a great deal on last years model. I paid substantially less for my 248LS last year because it was the previous years model. It was still a brand new boat with all the applicable warranties and there were no real differences between the two.

Montereys are great boats. A friend of mine took a 268LS on a day trip from Miami to the Bahamas and back a couple of years ago. He later took it all the way up the ICW. Pretty impressive for a bowrider. I am really fond of the 298SC, but it does not fit my needs right now.

[NHskier]

Since you are looking at Cobalt ...

Though we purchased a used Cobalt (1998 232 in Sept 2006) we have found the people at Thurston's to be great to work with, both before and after the sale. We have been treated very well and service work has been first-rate.

[Phantom]

skisox24- You mentioned Crownline -- As with NHskier -- but down the Channell (pardon the pun) a little further we have had tremendous service through the years with Channell Marine.......... starting when the Littlefield's owned the place. We have pulled in with minor issues to major issues and they have always given us prompt and personalized attention. For example, last season (after eight years of avoiding my last one) I clipped a rock pretty hard during "low water" season. Concerned of damage to the outdrive, We limped back to Channell and they pulled my boat while I was there !!! Something even I didn't expect as this was a Saturday, and in the midst of their taking in boats for winterization by the droves. For the record, we are NOT one of their "Valet" customers.

With that said, having been on Winni for wayyyyy too many years now & listening to neighbors and boating friends alike..... I think you will find that the vast majority of Marina's on the Lake do incredible jobs servicing both the boats and the owners!! On the flip side, I am sure there is a horror story attached to each as well (#@it happens).

Good Luck, and if you would like any input with regard to the Crownline feel free to "shout out"

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by NHskier

Since you are looking at Cobalt ...

Though we purchased a used Cobalt (1998 232 in Sept 2006) we have found the people at Thurston's to be great to work with, both before and after the sale. We have been treated very well and service work has been first-rate.

I too, have to second Thurston's. I bought a used Cobalt there as well and was treated like I was buying a brand new one, not one that was 18 years old. Also they picked up on a couple of things that a first time owner, like myself, (even though I had previous expereince just never owned personally) before I test drove it, then also pointed them out to me and then fixed them. Also A month after the first launch the went out with me to make sure the boat was operating correctly. Jeff Thurston over there is the guy I would talk to, he is great! Actually they are all great over there even down to the staff.

I will be buying from them when I upgrade for sure

[offmycloud]

I am looking at buying a used 2007 Malibu (Wakesetter). It was used one season for 100 hours and then traded for a new one. Is 100 a lot for one season? Is this a high hours boat? This one has all the options and I will be picking it up a lot cheaper than an '08.
Thanks

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by offmycloud

I am looking at buying a used 2007 Malibu (Wakesetter). It was used one season for 100 hours and then traded for a new one. Is 100 a lot for one season? Is this a high hours boat? This one has all the options and I will be picking it up a lot cheaper than an '08.
Thanks

Apples to oranges; but neverthelesss, if you drove a 100 hours at 50 mph, you would put 5000 miles on your vehicle.

Is a 2007 vehicle with 5000 miles on the odometer a high mileage vehicle?

To be safe, check the drive unit or running gear for signs of impact. There may be a good reason why the prior owner traded. Then, again, perhaps money was burning a whole in his pocket?!

Take it for a test ride and insist on warranty, before purchasing.

P.S.- Get the wife's approval...

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by offmycloud

I am looking at buying a used 2007 Malibu (Wakesetter). It was used one season for 100 hours and then traded for a new one. Is 100 a lot for one season? Is this a high hours boat? This one has all the options and I will be picking it up a lot cheaper than an '08.
Thanks

It's higher than average, but it's not a high hours boat. I'd rather buy one that was used often like that, than a year-old boat with only 20 hours.

[offmycloud]

Thanks Dave - I am now finding out that I can order a new one for only $4K more. $57K v. $61K so I think I am just going to do that. I will get the colors I want and it will be brand new. No chance that teenagers once drove it!

[Phantom]

We put on abot 150 hours per season as a reference for you .............. and YES that's some serious boating. If you can get a newbie for only $4k more -- ABSOLUTELY go that route

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by offmycloud

Thanks Dave - I am now finding out that I can order a new one for only $4K more. $57K v. $61K so I think I am just going to do that. I will get the colors I want and it will be brand new. No chance that teenagers once drove it!

Keep an eye on dealers out of the area. We have been in the market for a new wakeboard boat as well although we prefer the Tige or Mastercraft. I have found that pricing out of this area from larger dealerships is more aggressive than the dealers around here that don't push the volume. I would not buy a used one for $4k less, way too close.

Last year we bought an 07 Tige 24VE with 15 hours on it for $50k, the msrp was $68k but the guy needed to move it. We used it for the season and flipped it to someone in Texas and still got our money back. Shop around, there are plenty of deals on used or leftovers.

Anyone want a Monterey 298SS ???

[robmac]

shep browns would be my choice!! you can not only work the price but also storage and extended warranty! Give Bill jr a call