Dumb Question - but just in case

Cal-to-NH · 01-26-2016, 12:31 PM

Hi folks:
Still planning on leaving this Godforsaken high-tax environment to retire in my beloved NH. I have what might be a dumb question. I lived for many years in Hanover but didn't spend nearly enough time on the lake - just enough to know that's where I would retire some day. As I evaluate different homes in the Wolfboro/Tuftonboro/Alton/Moultonborough areas, I continue to wonder if there are any "flood plain" issues, as there are a few "feeder" rivers, etc.... to the lake. I didn't read anything from the lakes region to cause me concern during the horrible floods back in 2011 in the aftermath of Hurricane Irene (the one that Brattleboro got wiped-out from). Although not technically a "high mountain lake" like they have out here in California, Winnipesaukee is 500 feet above sea level. Logically I would think that there's nothing to worry about but I figured I'd ask. Especially the "old-timers" in this group - has anyone through the years seen any flooding problems in different communities on the lake????? Or are there any lake-front communities to watch-out for?

radar4401 · 01-26-2016, 01:01 PM

There has been times that the lake can be much higher than normal. You can see past levels in the following link: http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel.
Silver Lake has had flooding also in the past. I guess that it would depend how close your place is to the water. Some places were build within a couple of feet of the lake level and have had problems.

HellRaZoR004 · 01-26-2016, 03:58 PM

One thing to be aware of is during the Mothers day floods a number of years back a lot of people flooded not b/c they were in a low lying area, but b/c the water table rose so quickly (and so much) that water forced its way through the floor of people's basement. My parents being one...

Flylady · 01-26-2016, 05:24 PM

Don't expect to see a whole lot of savings. While you will not pay state income Tax in NH. you will pay other fees that are higher in NH than in Ca. If you own property in NH they are not governed by Prop 13 so your tax base is calculated differently. I have been splitting my time between the two states for several years. Still with costs being somewhat the same I would not trade NH for any other place. Good luck!

Rusty · 01-26-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal-to-NH

Logically I would think that there's nothing to worry about but I figured I'd ask. Especially the "old-timers" in this group - has anyone through the years seen any flooding problems in different communities on the lake????? Or are there any lake-front communities to watch-out for?

Only one that I've read about, it's in Genesis 6:9-9:17

secondcurve · 01-26-2016, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flylady

Don't expect to see a whole lot of savings. While you will not pay state income Tax in NH. you will pay other fees that are higher in NH than in Ca. If you own property in NH they are not governed by Prop 13 so your tax base is calculated differently. I have been splitting my time between the two states for several years. Still with costs being somewhat the same I would not trade NH for any other place. Good luck!

Sales and income taxes can each be in excess of 10% in California. They are both 0% NH. I'm not sure about property tax comparisons but two of the towns cal to nh referenced were Tuftonboro and Alton. Both are dirt cheap. It seems like if you have any money you will be much better off in NH as compared to CA from a tax perspective.

Cal-to-NH · 01-26-2016, 07:49 PM

Hey folks, I fear we have gone far afield here.

I have had Flylady warn me before about the total living cost and having lived in both states I can categorically say she is wrong. Just for good measure I have also performed 8 different Cost-of-Living Calculators and the difference in total living cost is from a low of 23% better to a high of 37% better in NH, so I got that one pretty much solved.

About flood issues however, does anyone else have any experiences. I definitely got good insights about the water-table issues from HellRaZoR004 and I have seen that phenomenon before. Also, the data from radar4401 for sure was great... Very very helpful, and thanks

Anyone else?

garysanfran · 01-26-2016, 08:52 PM

Just a couple of points to ponder...

I have a place in the ever expensive San Francisco that is worth about 4-5 times more than my place on the lake in Meredith. My property tax in SF is 1/3 that of Meredith.

In Meredith I don't live on a town maintained road. Don't have city sewage. Don't have city provided water. No trash pick up. And,I have no clue what my tax bill will be in 5 years, and since I can't vote, I have no say as to whether Meredith should buy a $750k fire engine and hit us with the bill.

I've seen a lot of my neighbors in Meredith sell their homes over the years because the increase in property taxes outpaced the increase in their retirement incomes. In CA, Prop.13 solved that problem. And boy do the believers in an ever-expanding nanny Govt. hate it.

camp guy · 01-26-2016, 09:00 PM

Not a dumb question at all. If you have started looking at houses, or at least areas, then I suggest you discuss this with a real estate broker. Also, FEMA has floodplain maps on-line, and if you Google floodplain maps-nh a lot of responses will come up.

What you want is a straight answer about floodplains, not a long-winded discussion of Cal vs NH taxes.

Good luck.

Cal-to-NH · 01-26-2016, 10:27 PM

Thanks camp guy. Appreciate the support. I have asked the broker showing us around and he says there are no problems because it's a high-mountain lake. I guess I feel better validating it with the year-rounders. The new flood plains are showing some areas and they are of course located near the feed-streams as far as I can tell - and they are very hard to interpret and navigate through....

So finally on the cost of living. For those one-dimensional people who think property tax is the alpha and omega, it's time to go to school. My income tax is 10%, what is yours? My electric bill is $500 a month - is yours? I filled-up today - gas was $2.60/gal for regular - is yours? My water bill - with rationing - is $380 a month - is yours? I have a pension - it is taxed in California at 10% - is yours? I have an annuity - but I was smart enough to put in in my 401K - when I take it out in California it is taxed at 10% - is yours? I have tax-free muni-bonds, but if you don't get a California muni they will tax it at 10%, and last I checked there are 49 other states with municipal bonds, but I can't invest in them - can you? My cable bill is only basic TV and internet - it costs $206 a month (Time-Warner - one star customer rating. I've heard yours isn't that good either), is yours? My tax on a $1,.2M house is $12,500 a year - does that sound horribly different from a $1.2M home in Alton, Moultonborough, Tutonboro, Wolfboro? No, not that much. Do I have to even go into my Auto insurance? Try getting home-owners insurance in wildfire territory. Have you even seen the annual excise taxes for your cars? I bought a Toyota Tacoma last year and paid $3,700 state sales tax. And everything else has a sales tax at 9%. - including clothes. Even Massachusetts doesn't have the audacity to tax clothes. Should I keep going?

You should not be knocking NH about their overall tax burden on the resident. It is mind-boggling that you think the tax burden for the two states are in the same neighborhood. In fact they are not even in the same solar-system. And there are costs outside of taxes as described above that aren't even close to being comparable in the two states.

ishoot308 · 01-26-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cal-to-NH

Thanks camp guy. Appreciate the support. I have asked the broker showing us around and he says there are no problems because it's a high-mountain lake. I guess I feel better validating it with the year-rounders. The new flood plains are showing some areas and they are of course located near the feed-streams as far as I can tell - and they are very hard to interpret and navigate through....

So finally on the cost of living. For those one-dimensional people who think property tax is the alpha and omega, it's time to go to school. My income tax is 10%, what is yours? My electric bill is $500 a month - is yours? I filled-up today - gas was $2.60/gal for regular - is yours? My water bill - with rationing - is $380 a month - is yours? I have a pension - it is taxed in California at 10% - is yours? I have an annuity - but I was smart enough to put in in my 401K - when I take it out in California it is taxed at 10% - is yours? I have tax-free
muni-bonds, but if you don't get a California muni they will tax it at 10%, and last I checked there are 49 other states with municipal bonds, but I can't invest in them - can you? My cable bill is only basic TV and internet - it costs $206 a month (Time-Warner - one star customer rating. I've heard yours isn't that good either), is yours? My tax on a $1,.2M house is $12,500 a year - does that sound horribly different from a $1.2M home in Alton, Moultonborough, Tutonboro, Wolfboro? No, not that much. Do I have to even go into my Auto insurance? Try getting home-owners insurance in wildfire territory. Have you even seen the annual excise taxes for your cars? I bought a Toyota Tacoma last year and paid $3,700 state sales tax. And everything else has a sales tax at 9%. - including clothes. Even Massachusetts doesn't have the audacity to tax clothes. Should I keep going?

You should not be knocking NH about their overall tax burden on the resident. It is mind-boggling that you think the tax burden for the two states are in the same neighborhood. In fact they are not even in the same solar-system. And there are costs outside of taxes as described above that aren't even close to being comparable in the two states.

Wow! Just unbelievable what your being taxed on in California. Nice to hear the real facts from someone in the know!!

Welcome to NH!!!

Dan

wifi · 01-27-2016, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Just a couple of points to ponder...

...since I can't vote, I have no say as to whether Meredith should buy a $750k fire engine and hit us with the bill......

Maybe if you changed your residency to NH, you could vote in both NH and Cal ?

Oh wait, this is a red herring.

rsmlp · 01-27-2016, 06:40 AM

Cal-to-NH, you are absolutely right! I just moved from Albany, NY to NH permanently and save literally 10's of thousands annually. My property tax was 4X what it is in Moultonboro on a per thousand of assessment basis and between income tax and sales tax (roughly 8% ea) well you get the idea. True, certain aspects are more expensive. Septic costs money but we paid roughly $2500/yr for our water bill in NY! Overall there is no comparison between the two.

Winnisquamer · 01-27-2016, 06:51 AM

The only .02 I have is on income tax. Although I am from MA originally which is half as bad as CA I moved from San Diego to NH and boy can I tell you the pockets are much fatter after that move.

Totally different lifestyle and people though.

tis · 01-27-2016, 07:35 AM

Cal, I would agree with your realtor. I don't think real flooding is an issue in most places around the lake. Most houses are on a lot which is raised a little or a lot. We have a flat lot which was one of my must haves and we have never had water come near our house. The water comes up everywhere in the spring but I don't think houses get flooded. We built in 1984-1985 and had what they called a hundred year flood and we did get water in the back yard but that was because it wasn't yet filled evenly and the low spots had water. Still, they didn't come up to where the house was going to be. And in those days you could build 30 feet from the lake and parts of our house are 30 feet from the lake. Any of the times since our lot was finished, when we had high water and "no wake" was put into effect, we had no water at all except at the edges of the lake. My parents' beach is also flat and that has only been flooded once or twice in my lifetime but never went up to the camp. I remember watching the fish on the beach. But those times hardly ever happen. I would not be worried at all about floods unless, as someone said above you are near a river. I think it is entirely possible though for your basement to flood if you are on a flat lot. When you think of floods in NH you do not think of Winni. You think of the Saco River in North Conway and the Pemmigewasset (sp?) in Plymouth. Hope this helps a little.

TiltonBB · 01-27-2016, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmlp

Cal-to-NH, you are absolutely right! I just moved from Albany, NY to NH permanently and save literally 10's of thousands annually. My property tax was 4X what it is in Moultonboro on a per thousand of assessment basis and between income tax and sales tax (roughly 8% ea) well you get the idea. True, certain aspects are more expensive. Septic costs money but we paid roughly $2500/yr for our water bill in NY! Overall there is no comparison between the two.

I am on the lake in Gilford and my house runs on lake water. The town sewer bill is $300 to $400 per year, a great deal, and I appreciate that the municipal sewer system eliminates the possibility of septic systems that leech into the lake.

In previous years in a small town in MA I had septic and the only maintenance was pumping every 5 years or so for about $120. My water bill was about $400 per year. A newspaper columnist in an adjoining city poked fun at my town for not having city sewer. My though at the time was I wouldn't connect if the connection cost was free. At that time people connected to the Mass Water Resource Authority water and sewer systems were paying $2,400 to $3,000 per year.

Septic is nothing to be concerned about if it is engineered and installed properly and maintained as needed.

SAMIAM · 01-27-2016, 08:23 AM

Wow......no wonder you're leaving California

8gv · 01-27-2016, 08:52 AM

In keeping with the topic of FLOODS...

Let's hope that the flood of tax refugees arriving from other states doesn't result in changes to NH politics that require higher taxes!

camp guy · 01-27-2016, 09:09 AM

OK, Cal-to-NH, great post. You appear to be someone who is articulate, organized, and has the facts to back up your statements. Very nicely done.

Might I humbly suggest that you not display the benefits of living in NH too loudly for fear that residents of not so fortunate states may want to move here.!

Slickcraft · 01-27-2016, 09:25 AM

While NH does not tax regular W2 earned income or retirement 1099R income, NH does tax dividends and interest at a 5% rate.

Winnisquamer · 01-27-2016, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy

OK, Cal-to-NH, great post. You appear to be someone who is articulate, organized, and has the facts to back up your statements. Very nicely done.

Might I humbly suggest that you not display the benefits of living in NH too loudly for fear that residents of not so fortunate states may want to move here.!

Everyone already knows NH is better!! That is why probably half of this forum is from MA

I agree though lets keep it a secret

Kamper · 01-27-2016, 10:32 AM

There have been high-water issues on the lake. I think if your house is at least 5 feet above "full" level you will be okay. I cant remember it ever getting that high but that's a benchmark I feel comfortable suggesting without check the records.

Good luck!

Cal-to-NH · 01-27-2016, 10:59 AM

Thanks much folks for the additional info on lake houses and risk of floods... I have to say that those visions of Brattleboro have not faded.... I feel 100% better about this now, and I thank you all.

I agree totally with keeping things a secret RE NH living. In 35 years of marriage and living is 5 states, the ONLY place we ever talk about is NH. It is in my heart and mind every day (for 15 years now). The people are REAL, not fake like out here. The balance between tax burden to people without undue overburden (and believe me I know it's hard everywhere) seems just right. It has an appropriate environment for businesses, but the state also works hard to preserve its pristine beauty. I hope you understand that you live in a truly awesome place. The number 1 industry I think is still tourism and the reason why is all around you. My wife says we lived in the middle of a "Currier and Ives" painting for 5 years. I took her away kicking and screaming. We will be back. And when the house is packed-up and loaded-off and we begin the cross-country drive in the Pickup, I will send a very sentimental gesture to Jerry Brown over the back-seat as I cross into Arizona - as my special parting gift to him. I have no worries about the folks in NH voting themselves their own tax increases the way they do out here. No worries at all.....

Promise me that today you will go outside and take in a deep breath, and then look - really look - around you. And thank God for where you live.

Bye for now
Cal-to-NH

dpg · 01-27-2016, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

In keeping with the topic of FLOODS...

Let's hope that the flood of tax refugees arriving from other states doesn't result in changes to NH politics that require higher taxes!

Better vote for *****. Oh wait you said refugees from other states not other countries.

Taz · 01-27-2016, 12:04 PM

That sewer bill sounds very high unless you use alot of water. My sewer bill in Gilford (I live full time in Gilford) is approximately $44 a quarter, $176 a year.

garysanfran · 01-27-2016, 12:19 PM

The Lake rose to the point my dock was 2' underwater and a "no wake" speed zone was enforced on the entire Lake.

I don't recall there being any flooding above the shoreline even though the Lake was at (maybe) record levels. A local insurance agent should be able to give you advice on flooding concerns in the area you chose.

As to all the comments and comparisons with CA and NH financial issues? We are all like snowflakes. You can affect your income tax by structuring your assets. You can do little to affect your property tax. Not sure, but don't think anyone has mentioned the cost of heating (and A/C?) in NH? Almost none where I live. And although I think the winter in NH is spectacular and not as appreciated as it should be, I like visiting it. Not sure I would want winter full-time. Thus my continued part-time residence in CA. However, if I had to chose?...I'll take life on the Lake full-time! Get a snowmobile and warmer clothing...

Major · 01-27-2016, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

In keeping with the topic of FLOODS...

Let's hope that the flood of tax refugees arriving from other states doesn't result in changes to NH politics that require higher taxes!

. . . I had a meeting with a UNH administrator, who was originally from Massachusetts. She lamented that the current tax structure in NH needs to be changed to fund wonderful things, like education. She was wholly behind a state income and sales tax. She promised me if this happened, my real estate taxes would be reduced! LOL. It's just a matter of time.

Seaplane Pilot · 01-27-2016, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major

. . . I had a meeting with a UNH administrator, who was originally from Massachusetts. She lamented that the current tax structure in NH needs to be changed to fund wonderful things, like education. She was wholly behind a state income and sales tax. She promised me if this happened, my real estate taxes would be reduced! LOL. It's just a matter of time.

Please tell her to head south, back to Taxachusetts. She is a perfect example of what has happened to NH in recent years.

garysanfran · 01-27-2016, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major

. . . I had a meeting with a UNH administrator, who was originally from Massachusetts. She lamented that the current tax structure in NH needs to be changed to fund wonderful things, like education. She was wholly behind a state income and sales tax. She promised me if this happened, my real estate taxes would be reduced! LOL. It's just a matter of time.

Spoken like a true bureaucrat! Are New Hampshire residents uneducated? I've not noticed that. I think the UNH administrator needs more education. This is the attitude from south-of-the-border that is making Bernie Sanders so popular in NH. I can't stand people who move "in" from elsewhere and then want to change the environment into which they have moved. Like moving next to a nightclub and then complaining about the noise.

Winnisquamer · 01-27-2016, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysanfran

The Lake rose to the point my dock was 2' underwater and a "no wake" speed zone was enforced on the entire Lake.

I don't recall there being any flooding above the shoreline even though the Lake was at (maybe) record levels. A local insurance agent should be able to give you advice on flooding concerns in the area you chose.

As to all the comments and comparisons with CA and NH financial issues? We are all like snowflakes. You can affect your income tax by structuring your assets. You can do little to affect your property tax. Not sure, but don't think anyone has mentioned the cost of heating (and A/C?) in NH? Almost none where I live. And although I think the winter in NH is spectacular and not as appreciated as it should be, I like visiting it. Not sure I would want winter full-time. Thus my continued part-time residence in CA. However, if I had to chose?...I'll take life on the Lake full-time! Get a snowmobile and warmer clothing...

You sadly forgot the most important item you need, and that is a shovel and some muscles for all that snow!

dpg · 01-28-2016, 06:54 AM

So when I retire and if I move from Mass to NH full time my company pension would not be taxed? Do I have my facts correct???

radar4401 · 01-28-2016, 09:29 AM

DPG,

You need to talk to a tax expert. I know that Cal. tried to tax people whose company was based in Cal. but worked in other states. It went to the Supreme Court and they lost. However, I don't know if you retired from a state that you also worked if that holds true.

upthesaukee · 01-28-2016, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpg

So when I retire and if I move from Mass to NH full time my company pension would not be taxed? Do I have my facts correct???

See this from Mass.gov.

http://www.mass.gov/dor/individuals/....html#Excluded

Hope it helps. Also, check with your employer. Depending on how large a company, the human resource people should be able to help with the answer.

Cal-to-NH · 01-28-2016, 10:47 AM

Hi folks, since people just can't resist turning this into a tax forum where it really started talking about flood risks on the lake, I guess if you can't "beat-'em", then "join 'em".

I have friends who relocated from a high tax (MA, CA) to a low tax (NV, NH) state. Beware that (1) if you were a resident of the high tax state, and (2) you keep what used to be your residential property in that high-tax state, that you will have continuing and relentless issues from your former, high tax, state. Both MA and CA have "days counting" so be very very careful that you comply with those requirements. See the previous posting and go to that site. California has been known to tax folks who currently have their primary residence in NV, but never sold their long-time residence in CA. They have been known to demand credit card info, cell phone info, etc... and if a single charge or phone call was made from CA, that counts for the "days" and they will tax you as a resident. I don't know anyone personally but I have heard that MA does the same thing.

If you sell your former residence in the high tax state they don't go after you.

But there are at least 2 folks in this thread that live in CA/NH, so maybe they can share their experiences???? I know my friend is pulling his hair out...

PS that old rumor that WHERE you earn your 401K, Pension, IRA, etc.... has to be taxed in that geography even if you take it out in a different state is fiction....

Flylady · 01-28-2016, 04:00 PM

I sold my primary home in CA three years ago to a family member, and rent back some space when I am in CA for the winters. Since filing as a NH resident 2 years ago I have not (as yet) had any trouble with the State of Ca.
Also CA. expenses like fuel, water, cable, heating/cooling vary widely based on location and the size of home you have as well as how long you have owned your home under prop 13. So in Cal-NH case clearly they will save based on their consumption in California. As an example for a 2000 sq ft home bought in 2001 prop. taxes are $5000.00 per year....monthly elect. is $150.00 on average, water is 130.00 a month and gas(for heating, hot water and cooking) runs about 14.00 a month in summer and $100.00 a month during winter months.....based on a conservation lifestyle and no pool.
I have had friends that moved to NH and suffered sticker shock when they got their property tax bill and the increase in cost for winter heating......only cuz they did not do their homework first!

SIKSUKR · 02-04-2016, 02:30 PM

This tells the tax story. California is the 4th highest tax burden and Nh is the 7th lowest.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emeg4...new-hampshire/

Donzi Minx · 02-04-2016, 03:10 PM

As usual what Don has created here is such a wonderful wealth of genuine information and helpfulness.

Having lost paradise in front of Diamond Island in W. Alton forever, just the exposure to tranquility and beauty that the lake provides out weighs the taxes imposed.

As a Boston suburb north of the City, Melrose, I would like to thank Mr. Dukakis personally for not applying to the Federal grant money to clean up Boston Harbor. I do have 5 children living in my house, but with average W/S bills that run $1,275.00 quarterly and property taxes at $8,000.00 annually, NH is still looking mighty attractive to retire to.

The run away authority providing water for us (We ride around) MWRA.

Winnisquamer · 02-04-2016, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donzi Minx

As usual what Don has created here is such a wonderful wealth of genuine information and helpfulness.

Having lost paradise in front of Diamond Island in W. Alton forever, just the exposure to tranquility and beauty that the lake provides out weighs the taxes imposed.

As a Boston suburb north of the City, Melrose, I would like to thank Mr. Dukakis personally for not applying to the Federal grant money to clean up Boston Harbor. I do have 5 children living in my house, but with average W/S bills that run $1,275.00 quarterly and property taxes at $8,000.00 annually, NH is still looking mighty attractive to retire to.

The run away authority providing water for us (We ride around) MWRA.

Moved from Medford to NH.. I know exactly where you're coming from neighbor! I don't regret the decision one bit! Hope to see a thread in the future of "finally making the move"

Oregonrain · 02-04-2016, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Might I humbly suggest that you not display the benefits of living in NH too loudly for fear that residents of not so fortunate states may want to move here.!

Ah shucks, Camp guy... you don't want outta staters moving there???

(I'm being facetious)
But we want to enjoy the lake too!

Kamper · 02-04-2016, 04:55 PM

Just remember why you might leave MA to come to NH.

rsmlp · 02-04-2016, 05:17 PM

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbade.../#2a08fe4d50a6

01-26-2016, 12:31 PM	#1
Cal-to-NH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 100 Thanks: 11 Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts	Dumb Question - but just in case Hi folks: Still planning on leaving this Godforsaken high-tax environment to retire in my beloved NH. I have what might be a dumb question. I lived for many years in Hanover but didn't spend nearly enough time on the lake - just enough to know that's where I would retire some day. As I evaluate different homes in the Wolfboro/Tuftonboro/Alton/Moultonborough areas, I continue to wonder if there are any "flood plain" issues, as there are a few "feeder" rivers, etc.... to the lake. I didn't read anything from the lakes region to cause me concern during the horrible floods back in 2011 in the aftermath of Hurricane Irene (the one that Brattleboro got wiped-out from). Although not technically a "high mountain lake" like they have out here in California, Winnipesaukee is 500 feet above sea level. Logically I would think that there's nothing to worry about but I figured I'd ask. Especially the "old-timers" in this group - has anyone through the years seen any flooding problems in different communities on the lake????? Or are there any lake-front communities to watch-out for? Last edited by Cal-to-NH; 01-26-2016 at 12:32 PM. Reason: clarification

01-26-2016, 08:52 PM	#8
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,501 Thanks: 609 Thanked 636 Times in 325 Posts	CA property tax vs. NH property taxes... Just a couple of points to ponder... I have a place in the ever expensive San Francisco that is worth about 4-5 times more than my place on the lake in Meredith. My property tax in SF is 1/3 that of Meredith. In Meredith I don't live on a town maintained road. Don't have city sewage. Don't have city provided water. No trash pick up. And,I have no clue what my tax bill will be in 5 years, and since I can't vote, I have no say as to whether Meredith should buy a $750k fire engine and hit us with the bill. I've seen a lot of my neighbors in Meredith sell their homes over the years because the increase in property taxes outpaced the increase in their retirement incomes. In CA, Prop.13 solved that problem. And boy do the believers in an ever-expanding nanny Govt. hate it. __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

01-26-2016, 09:00 PM	#9
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 284 Thanked 484 Times in 273 Posts	Dumb question ... Not a dumb question at all. If you have started looking at houses, or at least areas, then I suggest you discuss this with a real estate broker. Also, FEMA has floodplain maps on-line, and if you Google floodplain maps-nh a lot of responses will come up. What you want is a straight answer about floodplains, not a long-winded discussion of Cal vs NH taxes. Good luck.

01-26-2016, 10:27 PM	#10
Cal-to-NH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 100 Thanks: 11 Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts	Thanks camp guy. Appreciate the support. I have asked the broker showing us around and he says there are no problems because it's a high-mountain lake. I guess I feel better validating it with the year-rounders. The new flood plains are showing some areas and they are of course located near the feed-streams as far as I can tell - and they are very hard to interpret and navigate through.... So finally on the cost of living. For those one-dimensional people who think property tax is the alpha and omega, it's time to go to school. My income tax is 10%, what is yours? My electric bill is $500 a month - is yours? I filled-up today - gas was $2.60/gal for regular - is yours? My water bill - with rationing - is $380 a month - is yours? I have a pension - it is taxed in California at 10% - is yours? I have an annuity - but I was smart enough to put in in my 401K - when I take it out in California it is taxed at 10% - is yours? I have tax-free muni-bonds, but if you don't get a California muni they will tax it at 10%, and last I checked there are 49 other states with municipal bonds, but I can't invest in them - can you? My cable bill is only basic TV and internet - it costs $206 a month (Time-Warner - one star customer rating. I've heard yours isn't that good either), is yours? My tax on a $1,.2M house is $12,500 a year - does that sound horribly different from a $1.2M home in Alton, Moultonborough, Tutonboro, Wolfboro? No, not that much. Do I have to even go into my Auto insurance? Try getting home-owners insurance in wildfire territory. Have you even seen the annual excise taxes for your cars? I bought a Toyota Tacoma last year and paid $3,700 state sales tax. And everything else has a sales tax at 9%. - including clothes. Even Massachusetts doesn't have the audacity to tax clothes. Should I keep going? You should not be knocking NH about their overall tax burden on the resident. It is mind-boggling that you think the tax burden for the two states are in the same neighborhood. In fact they are not even in the same solar-system. And there are costs outside of taxes as described above that aren't even close to being comparable in the two states. Last edited by Cal-to-NH; 01-26-2016 at 10:31 PM. Reason: typo

01-27-2016, 06:40 AM	#13
rsmlp Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 464 Thanks: 5 Thanked 161 Times in 82 Posts	taxes Cal-to-NH, you are absolutely right! I just moved from Albany, NY to NH permanently and save literally 10's of thousands annually. My property tax was 4X what it is in Moultonboro on a per thousand of assessment basis and between income tax and sales tax (roughly 8% ea) well you get the idea. True, certain aspects are more expensive. Septic costs money but we paid roughly $2500/yr for our water bill in NY! Overall there is no comparison between the two.

01-26-2016, 01:01 PM	#2
radar4401 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 58 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	There has been times that the lake can be much higher than normal. You can see past levels in the following link: http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel. Silver Lake has had flooding also in the past. I guess that it would depend how close your place is to the water. Some places were build within a couple of feet of the lake level and have had problems.

01-26-2016, 03:58 PM	#3
HellRaZoR004 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Litchfield/Gilford Posts: 828 Thanks: 233 Thanked 224 Times in 131 Posts	One thing to be aware of is during the Mothers day floods a number of years back a lot of people flooded not b/c they were in a low lying area, but b/c the water table rose so quickly (and so much) that water forced its way through the floor of people's basement. My parents being one...

01-26-2016, 05:24 PM	#4
Flylady Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: So. California & Lakes Region Posts: 256 Thanks: 225 Thanked 106 Times in 61 Posts	Don't expect to see a whole lot of savings. While you will not pay state income Tax in NH. you will pay other fees that are higher in NH than in Ca. If you own property in NH they are not governed by Prop 13 so your tax base is calculated differently. I have been splitting my time between the two states for several years. Still with costs being somewhat the same I would not trade NH for any other place. Good luck!

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01-26-2016, 07:49 PM	#7
Cal-to-NH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 100 Thanks: 11 Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts	Hey folks, I fear we have gone far afield here. I have had Flylady warn me before about the total living cost and having lived in both states I can categorically say she is wrong. Just for good measure I have also performed 8 different Cost-of-Living Calculators and the difference in total living cost is from a low of 23% better to a high of 37% better in NH, so I got that one pretty much solved. About flood issues however, does anyone else have any experiences. I definitely got good insights about the water-table issues from HellRaZoR004 and I have seen that phenomenon before. Also, the data from radar4401 for sure was great... Very very helpful, and thanks Anyone else?

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01-27-2016, 06:51 AM	#14
Winnisquamer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Winnisquam Posts: 408 Thanks: 72 Thanked 115 Times in 73 Posts	The only .02 I have is on income tax. Although I am from MA originally which is half as bad as CA I moved from San Diego to NH and boy can I tell you the pockets are much fatter after that move. Totally different lifestyle and people though.

01-27-2016, 07:35 AM	#15
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,460 Thanks: 724 Thanked 1,394 Times in 967 Posts	Cal, I would agree with your realtor. I don't think real flooding is an issue in most places around the lake. Most houses are on a lot which is raised a little or a lot. We have a flat lot which was one of my must haves and we have never had water come near our house. The water comes up everywhere in the spring but I don't think houses get flooded. We built in 1984-1985 and had what they called a hundred year flood and we did get water in the back yard but that was because it wasn't yet filled evenly and the low spots had water. Still, they didn't come up to where the house was going to be. And in those days you could build 30 feet from the lake and parts of our house are 30 feet from the lake. Any of the times since our lot was finished, when we had high water and "no wake" was put into effect, we had no water at all except at the edges of the lake. My parents' beach is also flat and that has only been flooded once or twice in my lifetime but never went up to the camp. I remember watching the fish on the beach. But those times hardly ever happen. I would not be worried at all about floods unless, as someone said above you are near a river. I think it is entirely possible though for your basement to flood if you are on a flat lot. When you think of floods in NH you do not think of Winni. You think of the Saco River in North Conway and the Pemmigewasset (sp?) in Plymouth. Hope this helps a little.

01-27-2016, 08:23 AM	#17
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,852 Thanks: 329 Thanked 1,638 Times in 567 Posts	Wow......no wonder you're leaving California

01-27-2016, 08:52 AM	#18
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,021 Thanks: 62 Thanked 706 Times in 460 Posts	In keeping with the topic of FLOODS... Let's hope that the flood of tax refugees arriving from other states doesn't result in changes to NH politics that require higher taxes!

01-27-2016, 09:09 AM	#19
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,142 Thanks: 284 Thanked 484 Times in 273 Posts	Dumb question ... OK, Cal-to-NH, great post. You appear to be someone who is articulate, organized, and has the facts to back up your statements. Very nicely done. Might I humbly suggest that you not display the benefits of living in NH too loudly for fear that residents of not so fortunate states may want to move here.!

01-27-2016, 09:25 AM	#20
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and West Alton Posts: 3,240 Thanks: 1,186 Thanked 2,018 Times in 924 Posts	NH income tax While NH does not tax regular W2 earned income or retirement 1099R income, NH does tax dividends and interest at a 5% rate.

01-27-2016, 10:32 AM	#22
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	There have been high-water issues on the lake. I think if your house is at least 5 feet above "full" level you will be okay. I cant remember it ever getting that high but that's a benchmark I feel comfortable suggesting without check the records. Good luck!

01-27-2016, 10:59 AM	#23
Cal-to-NH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 100 Thanks: 11 Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts	Thanks much folks for the additional info on lake houses and risk of floods... I have to say that those visions of Brattleboro have not faded.... I feel 100% better about this now, and I thank you all. I agree totally with keeping things a secret RE NH living. In 35 years of marriage and living is 5 states, the ONLY place we ever talk about is NH. It is in my heart and mind every day (for 15 years now). The people are REAL, not fake like out here. The balance between tax burden to people without undue overburden (and believe me I know it's hard everywhere) seems just right. It has an appropriate environment for businesses, but the state also works hard to preserve its pristine beauty. I hope you understand that you live in a truly awesome place. The number 1 industry I think is still tourism and the reason why is all around you. My wife says we lived in the middle of a "Currier and Ives" painting for 5 years. I took her away kicking and screaming. We will be back. And when the house is packed-up and loaded-off and we begin the cross-country drive in the Pickup, I will send a very sentimental gesture to Jerry Brown over the back-seat as I cross into Arizona - as my special parting gift to him. I have no worries about the folks in NH voting themselves their own tax increases the way they do out here. No worries at all..... Promise me that today you will go outside and take in a deep breath, and then look - really look - around you. And thank God for where you live. Bye for now Cal-to-NH Last edited by Cal-to-NH; 01-27-2016 at 11:19 AM. Reason: typo

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01-27-2016, 12:04 PM	#25
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 345 Thanks: 3 Thanked 68 Times in 46 Posts	Tilton bb That sewer bill sounds very high unless you use alot of water. My sewer bill in Gilford (I live full time in Gilford) is approximately $44 a quarter, $176 a year.

01-27-2016, 12:19 PM	#26
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,501 Thanks: 609 Thanked 636 Times in 325 Posts	I think it was 2006... The Lake rose to the point my dock was 2' underwater and a "no wake" speed zone was enforced on the entire Lake. I don't recall there being any flooding above the shoreline even though the Lake was at (maybe) record levels. A local insurance agent should be able to give you advice on flooding concerns in the area you chose. As to all the comments and comparisons with CA and NH financial issues? We are all like snowflakes. You can affect your income tax by structuring your assets. You can do little to affect your property tax. Not sure, but don't think anyone has mentioned the cost of heating (and A/C?) in NH? Almost none where I live. And although I think the winter in NH is spectacular and not as appreciated as it should be, I like visiting it. Not sure I would want winter full-time. Thus my continued part-time residence in CA. However, if I had to chose?...I'll take life on the Lake full-time! Get a snowmobile and warmer clothing... __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

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01-28-2016, 06:54 AM	#31
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,560 Thanks: 149 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	So when I retire and if I move from Mass to NH full time my company pension would not be taxed? Do I have my facts correct???

01-28-2016, 09:29 AM	#32
radar4401 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 58 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	DPG, You need to talk to a tax expert. I know that Cal. tried to tax people whose company was based in Cal. but worked in other states. It went to the Supreme Court and they lost. However, I don't know if you retired from a state that you also worked if that holds true.

01-28-2016, 10:47 AM	#34
Cal-to-NH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 100 Thanks: 11 Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts	Is this what we've become? Hi folks, since people just can't resist turning this into a tax forum where it really started talking about flood risks on the lake, I guess if you can't "beat-'em", then "join 'em". I have friends who relocated from a high tax (MA, CA) to a low tax (NV, NH) state. Beware that (1) if you were a resident of the high tax state, and (2) you keep what used to be your residential property in that high-tax state, that you will have continuing and relentless issues from your former, high tax, state. Both MA and CA have "days counting" so be very very careful that you comply with those requirements. See the previous posting and go to that site. California has been known to tax folks who currently have their primary residence in NV, but never sold their long-time residence in CA. They have been known to demand credit card info, cell phone info, etc... and if a single charge or phone call was made from CA, that counts for the "days" and they will tax you as a resident. I don't know anyone personally but I have heard that MA does the same thing. If you sell your former residence in the high tax state they don't go after you. But there are at least 2 folks in this thread that live in CA/NH, so maybe they can share their experiences???? I know my friend is pulling his hair out... PS that old rumor that WHERE you earn your 401K, Pension, IRA, etc.... has to be taxed in that geography even if you take it out in a different state is fiction....

01-28-2016, 04:00 PM	#35
Flylady Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: So. California & Lakes Region Posts: 256 Thanks: 225 Thanked 106 Times in 61 Posts	CA/NH residence I sold my primary home in CA three years ago to a family member, and rent back some space when I am in CA for the winters. Since filing as a NH resident 2 years ago I have not (as yet) had any trouble with the State of Ca. Also CA. expenses like fuel, water, cable, heating/cooling vary widely based on location and the size of home you have as well as how long you have owned your home under prop 13. So in Cal-NH case clearly they will save based on their consumption in California. As an example for a 2000 sq ft home bought in 2001 prop. taxes are $5000.00 per year....monthly elect. is $150.00 on average, water is 130.00 a month and gas(for heating, hot water and cooking) runs about 14.00 a month in summer and $100.00 a month during winter months.....based on a conservation lifestyle and no pool. I have had friends that moved to NH and suffered sticker shock when they got their property tax bill and the increase in cost for winter heating......only cuz they did not do their homework first!

02-04-2016, 02:30 PM	#36
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	This tells the tax story. California is the 4th highest tax burden and Nh is the 7th lowest. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emeg4...new-hampshire/ __________________ SIKSUKR

02-04-2016, 03:10 PM	#37
Donzi Minx Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Melrose, Mass. Posts: 189 Thanks: 0 Thanked 183 Times in 52 Posts	No dumb questions As usual what Don has created here is such a wonderful wealth of genuine information and helpfulness. Having lost paradise in front of Diamond Island in W. Alton forever, just the exposure to tranquility and beauty that the lake provides out weighs the taxes imposed. As a Boston suburb north of the City, Melrose, I would like to thank Mr. Dukakis personally for not applying to the Federal grant money to clean up Boston Harbor. I do have 5 children living in my house, but with average W/S bills that run $1,275.00 quarterly and property taxes at $8,000.00 annually, NH is still looking mighty attractive to retire to. The run away authority providing water for us (We ride around) MWRA.

02-04-2016, 04:55 PM	#40
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	Just remember why you might leave MA to come to NH.

02-04-2016, 05:17 PM	#41
rsmlp Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 464 Thanks: 5 Thanked 161 Times in 82 Posts	here you go... http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbade.../#2a08fe4d50a6