Get Ready for E15

LakeSnake · 10-13-2010, 01:17 PM

Just saw this on Yahoo. Apparently the administration has decided to go forward with E15.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Sai...ode=#y-nav-sec

Lakesrider · 10-13-2010, 01:36 PM

Ought to do even more wonders in the boat....

LIforrelaxin · 10-13-2010, 02:15 PM

More needs to be learned about this decision this has disaster written all over it. The folowing quote from the above posted article has me wondering what is going on::

" to permit higher concentrations of the corn-based fuel additive in gasoline for vehicles made in 2007 and later "

Now is this to say gas stations will have to have both? Do engines built prior to 2007 have a known issue? When all the gas stations go to E15 to make their life easier what does this mean for my 2004 truck?

I have long been against ethanol in fuels I believe it has had a disastrous effect on the economy and is just as much to blame for our latest recession as anything else.

Would someone please help out and get some new fresh ideas, brains, and faces elected into office, before all the current politicians screw this country up to much further.

Skip · 10-13-2010, 03:20 PM

THIS is the FAQ page from the EPA regarding today's announcement. Hopefully it will answer some of the questions that will be raised over this controversial issue.

BroadHopper · 10-13-2010, 06:12 PM

Brought to you by the House and Senators from the Heartland. They don't give crap about the recreational folks. Just the folks who voted them in.

Everyone knows the govt subsidize corn production for ethanol. More and more farmers are switching to corn production as it is more profitable than growing food. That's why food is more expensive and it is a fast growing import.

We are taken as fools. We may become more independent of oil, but we are becoming more dependent on our food.

Pineedles · 10-13-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Brought to you by the House and Senators from the Heartland. They don't give crap about the recreational folks. Just the folks who voted them in.

Everyone knows the govt subsidize corn production for ethanol. More and more farmers are switching to corn production as it is more profitable than growing food. That's why food is more expensive and it is a fast growing import.

We are taken as fools. We may become more independent of oil, but we are becoming more dependent on our food.

We are being taken as fools, is the key! Siting government sites for the facts is foolish. The higher the government level sited, the bigger the lie! We are being manipulated into believing that corn based products will solve the oil/energy problem. GWB tried to introduce sawgrass as an alternative. No one is talking about that anymore!

chipj29 · 10-14-2010, 06:19 AM

Taken from the link Skip provided:

What Vehicles May Use E15?
MY2007 and newer cars.
MY2007 and newer light-duty trucks.
MY2007 and newer medium-duty passenger vehicles.

What Vehicles and Engines May Not Use E15?
All motorcycles.
All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses, transit buses, and delivery trucks.
All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles.
All engines in off-road equipment, such as lawnmowers and chain saws.
All 2006 model-year and older cars.

hilltopper · 10-14-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

Taken from the link Skip provided:

What Vehicles May Use E15?
MY2007 and newer cars.
MY2007 and newer light-duty trucks.
MY2007 and newer medium-duty passenger vehicles.

What Vehicles and Engines May Not Use E15?
All motorcycles.
All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses, transit buses, and delivery trucks.
All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles.
All engines in off-road equipment, such as lawnmowers and chain saws.
All 2006 model-year and older cars.

Wonderful. So you're really going to have think about what you're refueling and where you're refuleing it. And in the Winter, when your snowmobile is on fumes, you better hope that gas station you're pulling into does not sell E15 only. I have not read Skip's link, but will gas stations have a choice on which blend they sell or will they have a few pumps dedicated for each?

Jonas Pilot · 10-14-2010, 07:36 AM

Corn shortage to raise beef prices.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/085c9966-d...44feabdc0.html

If you really want to get worried Google "corn shortage ethanol". This has world wide implications.

Seeker · 10-14-2010, 10:50 AM

Thankfully I have one gas station in Freedom that sells "real gas" in addition to the E10 crap. It's 10 cents per gallon more but I use it in my boats, lawn mowers, Harley and 62 Vette. A pain hauling those 6 gallon jugs but after paying $60 for a new gas tank for my Husqvarna rider after E10 ate the seal holding the 2 tank halves together I don't complain. Can't wait for the E15 or E80.

ishoot308 · 10-18-2010, 07:59 PM

Here's a good site...Unfortunately only one station in NH!

http://pure-gas.org/

Dan

Winnipesaukee Divers · 10-19-2010, 05:38 AM

If you think E15 is going to cause you some headaches, just wait until you see what the new B2 heat oil blend is going to do for you.

We in the heating industry have been watching and dealing with the ill-effects of the "Biofuel" for some time now. The EPA has now mandated all fuels will be the new "B2" blend as of June 2010. B2 is 20% ethanol and unless your system is designed to run on it you're in for a real headache this winter.

I love that article in my news yesterday, "What's in store for home fuel cost this winter? Prices expected to rise ~ but not by much". What they didn't say is you just got a major decrease in its caloric valve. The BTU content of #2 heating oil is 138K and the new B2 blend is reduced to 125K, so that’s less BTU per gallon and it costs more too.

And you're thinking that not so bad, I can live with that... it will help the environment... But wait, it get even better; in 2013 they're moving you up to B3, which is 30% ethanol and that degrade the caloric value by another 10K.

If you love what ethanol has done for your gas engines, you're really going love what it will do for your heating system.

tis · 10-19-2010, 06:46 AM

Oh, isn't that just lovely. Just what we need! Why can't we stop this nonsense?
It is not like we have an abundance of ethanol from what I have heard. And it stops the farmers from growing food. It is just a stupid idea.

gtagrip · 10-19-2010, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

Taken from the link Skip provided:

What Vehicles May Use E15?
MY2007 and newer cars.
MY2007 and newer light-duty trucks.
MY2007 and newer medium-duty passenger vehicles.

What Vehicles and Engines May Not Use E15?
All motorcycles.
All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses, transit buses, and delivery trucks.
All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles.
All engines in off-road equipment, such as lawnmowers and chain saws.
All 2006 model-year and older cars.

Can we say colusion(sp)? Maybe this is the current administrations way to stimulate the automotive industry? Or any other vehicle industry? This is unbelievable!

brk-lnt · 10-19-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Can we say colusion(sp)? Maybe this is the current administrations way to stimulate the automotive industry? Or any other vehicle industry? This is unbelievable!

Never attribute to malice that which is more easily attributed to stupidity...

kauriel · 10-19-2010, 02:22 PM

Only one ethanol free station is listed for NH (freedom) but VT has quite a few: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NH.

We were told to add blue marine stabilizer to land-based engines (e.g., snowblower, 4-wheeler) to help prevent ethanol from breaking down. We're hoping that will help because nearest ethanol free station is about 2 hours from home.

garysanfran · 10-19-2010, 02:58 PM

Don't be complacent...Vote!

BroadHopper · 10-20-2010, 09:54 PM

I have natural gas. It's been pretty cheap so far. Now. If I can get my boat and vehicles to run on gas...................................

VtSteve · 10-21-2010, 05:38 AM

Did anyone ever listen to anything the previous administration said, or read about what they put into place? These policies have been pushed by the Administrative Branch since 2002, and escalated through 2008 and beyond.

I'm not saying I like them, but they've been out there for a long time. Neither this election, nor the ones after it, will change any of these policies.

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Bu...m_Oil_999.html

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2...-10-12-03.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...z/4573219.html

tis · 10-21-2010, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysanfran

Don't be complacent...Vote!

I certainly plan to. But WHO is AGAINST this?

chipj29 · 10-21-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

I certainly plan to. But WHO is AGAINST this?

I am strongly against mandating the use of fuels that have been shown to cause damage to equipment such as vehicles and oil burning furnaces.

I am strongly against mandating the use of a fuel source (corn) that puts our national food supply in jeopardy.

I am strongly against mandating the use of a fuel that takes more energy to manufacture, and that reduces the fuel efficiency of vehicles.

RI Swamp Yankee · 10-21-2010, 12:30 PM

At least E15 is not required ...... yet!

tis · 10-21-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

I am strongly against mandating the use of fuels that have been shown to cause damage to equipment such as vehicles and oil burning furnaces.

I am strongly against mandating the use of a fuel source (corn) that puts our national food supply in jeopardy.

I am strongly against mandating the use of a fuel that takes more energy to manufacture, and that reduces the fuel efficiency of vehicles.

Are you running? I will vote for you!

Sue Doe-Nym · 10-21-2010, 08:40 PM

Two days ago I contacted the campaign offices of both Hodes and Ayotte and requested what the candidates positions are regarding E-15 and B2/B3. So far I have not received an answer. Granted, this is not something that I believe is voted on by Congress but it sure is another example of Washington dictating rules that are against the public interest. In this case it tells us how beholden our politicians, especially those from the corn growing states, are to special interests.

Anybody like those new EPA gas cans that take forever to pour. Who will step up and protect the taxpayers from the bureaucrats who "know better"?

archstanton · 10-22-2010, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Who will step up and protect the taxpayers from the bureaucrats who "know better"?

The polls are most likely busy researching what E-15 is! Hence no response - so typical of the elected body these days.

Who will protect us? Only us. If you don't like what you see then vote them out. It is our only recourse as citizens of what used to be a great nation. Unless you want to take a page out of our fore fathers book and start an old fashion revolution. But I doubt that will/could happen today with the dumbed down/sissy general populace the got us here in the first place. And yes we all played a role in that even if by simply not taking more interest in the electorate process over the last decade or two.

chipj29 · 10-22-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

Are you running? I will vote for you!

lol thanks, but no. I wouldn't ever even consider it. Too many skeletons in my closet that would surely be uncovered by my opponent!

RI Swamp Yankee · 10-22-2010, 04:06 PM

Since the use of E15 is not mandatory everyone gets to vote on the issue with their wallet. Who is going to try sell a product that nobody will buy?

robmac · 10-23-2010, 07:43 AM

for the near future I don't see it as a big problem. If a gas station owner has to choose between a product people will buy and one his or her customers won't well common sense tells what the decision will be. Because they's need land,EPA approval in order to add storage tanks and pumps in order to sell both E-10 and E-15 In my opinion it'll be a little while before it becomes the only fuel choice. I agree that selling or buying fuel that will cause an increase in our overall food cost is not the answer. I remember the thread where it was discussed going from E-85 to E-10 caused problems with the vehicles opereation just think of what it is going to do to pre 2000 model year vehicles. Again JMHO.

10-13-2010, 01:17 PM	#1
LakeSnake Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pine (Alton) Mountain Posts: 138 Thanks: 39 Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts	Get Ready for E15 Just saw this on Yahoo. Apparently the administration has decided to go forward with E15. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Sai...ode=#y-nav-sec

10-13-2010, 02:15 PM	#3
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,875 Thanks: 1,037 Thanked 892 Times in 524 Posts	More needs to be learned about this decision this has disaster written all over it. The folowing quote from the above posted article has me wondering what is going on:: " to permit higher concentrations of the corn-based fuel additive in gasoline for vehicles made in 2007 and later " Now is this to say gas stations will have to have both? Do engines built prior to 2007 have a known issue? When all the gas stations go to E15 to make their life easier what does this mean for my 2004 truck? I have long been against ethanol in fuels I believe it has had a disastrous effect on the economy and is just as much to blame for our latest recession as anything else. Would someone please help out and get some new fresh ideas, brains, and faces elected into office, before all the current politicians screw this country up to much further. __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

10-13-2010, 03:20 PM	#4
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	EPA Press release & FAQ page THIS is the FAQ page from the EPA regarding today's announcement. Hopefully it will answer some of the questions that will be raised over this controversial issue.

10-13-2010, 06:12 PM	#5
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,577 Thanks: 3,220 Thanked 1,103 Times in 794 Posts	the Heartland Plan. Brought to you by the House and Senators from the Heartland. They don't give crap about the recreational folks. Just the folks who voted them in. Everyone knows the govt subsidize corn production for ethanol. More and more farmers are switching to corn production as it is more profitable than growing food. That's why food is more expensive and it is a fast growing import. We are taken as fools. We may become more independent of oil, but we are becoming more dependent on our food. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

10-14-2010, 06:19 AM	#7
chipj29 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bow Posts: 1,874 Thanks: 521 Thanked 308 Times in 162 Posts	Taken from the link Skip provided: What Vehicles May Use E15? MY2007 and newer cars. MY2007 and newer light-duty trucks. MY2007 and newer medium-duty passenger vehicles. What Vehicles and Engines May Not Use E15? All motorcycles. All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses, transit buses, and delivery trucks. All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles. All engines in off-road equipment, such as lawnmowers and chain saws. All 2006 model-year and older cars. __________________ Getting ready for winter!

10-13-2010, 01:36 PM	#2
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	Ought to do even more wonders in the boat....

The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
LIforrelaxin (10-19-2010)

10-14-2010, 07:36 AM	#9
Jonas Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wolfeboro, New Hampshire is my home, 24-7-365 Posts: 1,686 Thanks: 1,047 Thanked 336 Times in 189 Posts	Unintended consequences. Corn shortage to raise beef prices. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/085c9966-d...44feabdc0.html If you really want to get worried Google "corn shortage ethanol". This has world wide implications.

10-14-2010, 10:50 AM	#10
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Effingham Posts: 408 Thanks: 37 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	Thankfully I have one gas station in Freedom that sells "real gas" in addition to the E10 crap. It's 10 cents per gallon more but I use it in my boats, lawn mowers, Harley and 62 Vette. A pain hauling those 6 gallon jugs but after paying $60 for a new gas tank for my Husqvarna rider after E10 ate the seal holding the 2 tank halves together I don't complain. Can't wait for the E15 or E80.

10-18-2010, 07:59 PM	#11
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 6,271 Thanks: 2,400 Thanked 5,287 Times in 2,058 Posts	Ethanol Free Gas Stations Here's a good site...Unfortunately only one station in NH! http://pure-gas.org/ Dan

10-19-2010, 05:38 AM	#12
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	There's more good news... If you think E15 is going to cause you some headaches, just wait until you see what the new B2 heat oil blend is going to do for you. We in the heating industry have been watching and dealing with the ill-effects of the "Biofuel" for some time now. The EPA has now mandated all fuels will be the new "B2" blend as of June 2010. B2 is 20% ethanol and unless your system is designed to run on it you're in for a real headache this winter. I love that article in my news yesterday, "What's in store for home fuel cost this winter? Prices expected to rise ~ but not by much". What they didn't say is you just got a major decrease in its caloric valve. The BTU content of #2 heating oil is 138K and the new B2 blend is reduced to 125K, so that’s less BTU per gallon and it costs more too. And you're thinking that not so bad, I can live with that... it will help the environment... But wait, it get even better; in 2013 they're moving you up to B3, which is 30% ethanol and that degrade the caloric value by another 10K. If you love what ethanol has done for your gas engines, you're really going love what it will do for your heating system.

10-19-2010, 06:46 AM	#13
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,745 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,459 Times in 1,016 Posts	Oh, isn't that just lovely. Just what we need! Why can't we stop this nonsense? It is not like we have an abundance of ethanol from what I have heard. And it stops the farmers from growing food. It is just a stupid idea.

10-19-2010, 02:22 PM	#16
kauriel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Laconia, N. MA Posts: 290 Thanks: 119 Thanked 62 Times in 44 Posts	Only one ethanol free station is listed for NH (freedom) but VT has quite a few: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NH. We were told to add blue marine stabilizer to land-based engines (e.g., snowblower, 4-wheeler) to help prevent ethanol from breaking down. We're hoping that will help because nearest ethanol free station is about 2 hours from home.

10-19-2010, 02:58 PM	#17
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,574 Thanks: 668 Thanked 682 Times in 348 Posts	Election day is near... Don't be complacent...Vote! __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

The Following User Says Thank You to garysanfran For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (10-20-2010)

10-20-2010, 09:54 PM	#18
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,577 Thanks: 3,220 Thanked 1,103 Times in 794 Posts	Thanks Goodness! I have natural gas. It's been pretty cheap so far. Now. If I can get my boat and vehicles to run on gas................................... __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

10-21-2010, 05:38 AM	#19
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	Did anyone ever listen to anything the previous administration said, or read about what they put into place? These policies have been pushed by the Administrative Branch since 2002, and escalated through 2008 and beyond. I'm not saying I like them, but they've been out there for a long time. Neither this election, nor the ones after it, will change any of these policies. http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Bu...m_Oil_999.html http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2...-10-12-03.html http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...z/4573219.html

The Following User Says Thank You to VtSteve For This Useful Post:
Jmo77011 (10-22-2010)

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to chipj29 For This Useful Post:
CGI3 (10-21-2010), gtagrip (10-21-2010), LIforrelaxin (10-21-2010)

10-21-2010, 12:30 PM	#22
RI Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Kingstown RI Posts: 688 Thanks: 143 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	At least E15 is not required ...... yet! __________________ Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"

10-21-2010, 08:40 PM	#24
Sue Doe-Nym Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,427 Thanks: 745 Thanked 791 Times in 414 Posts	Two days ago I contacted the campaign offices of both Hodes and Ayotte and requested what the candidates positions are regarding E-15 and B2/B3. So far I have not received an answer. Granted, this is not something that I believe is voted on by Congress but it sure is another example of Washington dictating rules that are against the public interest. In this case it tells us how beholden our politicians, especially those from the corn growing states, are to special interests. Anybody like those new EPA gas cans that take forever to pour. Who will step up and protect the taxpayers from the bureaucrats who "know better"?

10-22-2010, 04:06 PM	#27
RI Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Kingstown RI Posts: 688 Thanks: 143 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	Since the use of E15 is not mandatory everyone gets to vote on the issue with their wallet. Who is going to try sell a product that nobody will buy? __________________ Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"

10-23-2010, 07:43 AM	#28
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	for the near future I don't see it as a big problem. If a gas station owner has to choose between a product people will buy and one his or her customers won't well common sense tells what the decision will be. Because they's need land,EPA approval in order to add storage tanks and pumps in order to sell both E-10 and E-15 In my opinion it'll be a little while before it becomes the only fuel choice. I agree that selling or buying fuel that will cause an increase in our overall food cost is not the answer. I remember the thread where it was discussed going from E-85 to E-10 caused problems with the vehicles opereation just think of what it is going to do to pre 2000 model year vehicles. Again JMHO.