Trail Closure Notice

nhcatrider · 12-30-2017, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTTOOL

ok people say its land owner rights where is the rights of the people that buy all these products to use. with more and more land being closed and passing the blame to the user is not the anwser.

It's the idiotic actions of a select few that ruin it for the rest. One of my friends had 3 miles of trail running through his land and the actions of a few were responsible for the closure of the trail. Imagine having to do a 3 mile reroute in January which is when he closed the gates on his land.

ishoot308 · 12-30-2017, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhcatrider

It's the idiotic actions of a select few that ruin it for the rest. One of my friends had 3 miles of trail running through his land and the actions of a few were responsible for the closure of the trail. Imagine having to do a 3 mile reroute in January which is when he closed the gates on his land.

Just curious NHcat,... knowing what you know of the situation, do you agree with his/her decision to close the trail or do you think the landowner wasn’t forgiving enough and was being selfish? Honest question.

Thanks!

Dan

Outdoorsman · 12-30-2017, 04:52 PM

About 5ish years ago, with the help of my local snowmobile club, I built a decent (not elaborate) bridge across the brook on my property. I supplied most of the material. To be fair, this trail was used more by locals than the general riding population, but it was a secondary feeder trail that was generally used as a shortcut for a smaller loop ride and was open and used by the public. Three weeks after building that bridge, someone had stolen ALL the new materials used to make that bridge. 2x4's, Plywood etc. and left a mess of what little was not stolen.

I had the trail closed and there is no longer a reasonable "loop trail" as far as I know.

So, with all due respect, I can not ever see a land owner being "selfish". It is the few that ruin it for the many.

Sorry for the rant.

nhcatrider · 12-30-2017, 06:37 PM

I went with him one spring to clean up the trash that was left behind. The area of trash was out of sight of his house and the road. We filled his pickup when we cleaned up, and the area was clean before winter. This had happened over several years and the club was warned repeatedly as well as signs were posted. He even supplied trash barrels but they were hardly used and instead beer cans and other assorted trash was buried in the snow. He raises dogs and got sick of the predatory animals that were being attracted to the trash that was left behind. Since closing the trail he has not had a problem with animals. Seeing all of this I agree with his decision, even though it was a select few that ruined it for everyone else.

SAMIAM · 01-01-2018, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhcatrider

I went with him one spring to clean up the trash that was left behind. The area of trash was out of sight of his house and the road. We filled his pickup when we cleaned up, and the area was clean before winter. This had happened over several years and the club was warned repeatedly as well as signs were posted. He even supplied trash barrels but they were hardly used and instead beer cans and other assorted trash was buried in the snow. He raises dogs and got sick of the predatory animals that were being attracted to the trash that was left behind. Since closing the trail he has not had a problem with animals. Seeing all of this I agree with his decision, even though it was a select few that ruined it for everyone else.

Here at the Village Kitchen we have hundreds of snowmobilers passing through our property weekly on the way to the Red Hill trail. Many stop and congregate in the lower field before going up and many stop in the back yard
and come in to eat. I have never encountered any significant trash in the spring and

they have always been respectful around our two leach fields.
I would urge landowners to try to be understanding of the occasional kid (or adult)that gets out of line because they do not represent the majority and I'm pretty sure that if a club member or local rider saw them acting up that they would have have some pretty harsh words for them

Woodsy · 01-02-2018, 10:54 AM

Unfortunately....

If we do not police ourselves, the sport as we know it in NH will be killed off. Property owners are not going to be so generous when opening up their land for our use when it becomes a hassle.. be it noise or trash or failure to stay on the trail!

If you see someone being a TOOL... say something. Take pic or a vid and send it into F&G..

Woodsy

WINNOCTURN · 01-02-2018, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Unfortunately....

If we do not police ourselves, the sport as we know it in NH will be killed off. Property owners are not going to be so generous when opening up their land for our use when it becomes a hassle.. be it noise or trash or failure to stay on the trail!

If you see someone being a TOOL... say something. Take pic or a vid and send it into F&G..

Woodsy

IGNORENT RIDERS hurt us more the Trash!

WHAT ABOUT THE RIDER THE DONOT OBEY THE SINAGE ON OUR TRAILS, SLOW, 10MPH AND SUCH.

WE ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE AWAY TO GET UP TO THE TOP OF THE NECK TRAIL FROM THE KONA AREA AND FAR ECHO WITH OUT HAVING TO USE THE LAKE FRO EITHE SIDE OF THE NECK.

OH THE "CAPS"? YES I AM SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYONE TAKE NOTE OF THE NUMBER OF TRAIL CLOUSERS/TOTAL LOSS OF TRAIL SYSTEMS?

SAB1 · 01-03-2018, 06:17 AM

Very frustrating! The trail off 19 mile bay parking lot that heads south to Lang pond road is closed again this year and the trail off Melvin bay that is a left at power line and goes to castle lot is closed again though many are using it (there is no rope across it just a sign which is a mistake) I met a nice guy in the castle lot Sunday afternoon that is working with Wolfboro club. He is trying to give Wolfboro a rerout across his land to help get this trail open again but....he said people have been snowmobiling all over his land the past two weeks and he's thinking of pulling back his offer. I agree with woodsy above, we all need to do more policing ourselves but it may not do much. I think a lot of non local people don't visit club websites and see the closures and they just follow tracks already on the trails. But then and again when I think of the way I see folks driving their boats on the lakes with little to no idea what a buoy is .........

ishoot308 · 01-03-2018, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WINNOCTURN

IGNORENT RIDERS hurt us more the Trash!

WHAT ABOUT THE RIDER THE DONOT OBEY THE SINAGE ON OUR TRAILS, SLOW, 10MPH AND SUCH.

WE ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE AWAY TO GET UP TO THE TOP OF THE NECK TRAIL FROM THE KONA AREA AND FAR ECHO WITH OUT HAVING TO USE THE LAKE FRO EITHE SIDE OF THE NECK.

OH THE "CAPS"? YES I AM SCREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANYONE TAKE NOTE OF THE NUMBER OF TRAIL CLOUSERS/TOTAL LOSS OF TRAIL SYSTEMS?

I think you are wrong about the riders being "Ignorent" (ignorant), I wish it were ignorance!... These riders can read signs, if they couldn't read or were uneducated or unaware that would be considered ignorant. Irresponsible and just don't give a sh&* is what these riders are. They have paid there registration fees and now they will ride where and however they want!

I have said it before and I will say it again, for whatever reason snowmobiling has more than its fair share of irresponsible people involved in the sport, more than any other outdoor sport I have ever been involved in by a long shot!

I agree with Woodsy and Sab1 that self policing is the only hope in hell we have to turn things around to save what few trails we have left. Even then I have my doubts...

Dan

VitaBene · 01-03-2018, 01:45 PM

Wow, this thread took on a life of its own!! We are fighting an uphill battle with land development and liability concerns. When we throw irresponsible riding into the mix, it becomes near impossible.

It is nice to see the support by many for our clubs and snowmobiling in general!

Tom T · 01-03-2018, 02:21 PM

Self policing and getting the word out to others is going to be the best way to handle these issues.

I volunteer with the Wolfeboro Snowmobile Club and SAB1 is correct we are close to having a reroute to the castle, if we get this through its in thanks to generous landowners. Anyone that is involved in this sport owes any landowner allowing trail access a world of thanks. Ishoot308 is correct a sign should be sufficient, even if we put fences up they find a way around them. A few just dont give a damn.

19 mile bay there was a no snowmobile sign posted, it sounds like someone took it down. Just another example if the ignorance of a few.

We have 3 no riding signs right next to each other near the transfer station and there are tracks going right through them. Again a few dont care. Maybe if we catch the ones abusing the right we can start getting the point across with a picture of there registration sent to fish and game. If you dont want to report them to fish and game notify your local club let them take care of it.

Our club has over 200 man hours into trail maintenance this year and this does not include our officers who spend countless hours talking with landowners, making sure permission forms are signed, looking for reroutes and the list goes on. All clubs work endless hours for all riders to enjoy. If we dont make a stand, police these individuals and spread the word our clubs will be gone.

Read the NHSA trail reports - many clubs are in the same battle. Moultonborough, Sandwich, Osspiee, Scurb Oaks are just a few in our backyards that have already lost trails.

Talk to your fellow riders, bring up the conversation at the coffee shops, local restaurants, happy hours wherever you like to spend time and have conversations. We need everyone to know about these issues. Most importantly we need the landowners to know we care.

Woodsy · 01-03-2018, 02:38 PM

It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs....

Woodsy

Tom T · 01-03-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs....

Woodsy

I was just talking with our president about that today. Anything is worth a try

ishoot308 · 01-03-2018, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs....

Woodsy

They would only get stolen or destroyed...

tis · 01-03-2018, 03:29 PM

Isn't it sad that we've come to this!?

Woodsy · 01-03-2018, 03:31 PM

ishoot...

While I do think them getting destroyed or stolen could happen.... the clubs have the advantage.

1st... the people don't know they are there... so there is the element of surprise.

2nd... clubs can use ladders to get the cam's high enough so that they cannot be reached easily.

3rd... the clubs can move the cameras around.

4th... a couple of well placed signs at junctions indicating trail cams are in use (junctions nowhere near actual trail cams) can go a long way.

Trailcams are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used by the clubs and F&G to help with the issue.

Woodsy

ishoot308 · 01-03-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

ishoot...

While I do think them getting destroyed or stolen could happen.... the clubs have the advantage.

1st... the people don't know they are there... so there is the element of surprise.

2nd... clubs can use ladders to get the cam's high enough so that they cannot be reached easily.

3rd... the clubs can move the cameras around.

4th... a couple of well placed signs at junctions indicating trail cams are in use (junctions nowhere near actual trail cams) can go a long way.

Trailcams are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used by the clubs and F&G to help with the issue.

Woodsy

Agreed....it's just my disgust with this subject makes me feel like this sport has no chance of surviving in NH. Unfortunately I have "the cup is always half empty" attitude on this topic...

Sorry;

Dan

VitaBene · 01-03-2018, 04:24 PM

We have a couple that we move around

SAB1 · 01-03-2018, 04:39 PM

Its worth a try if some clubs have a little surplus cash. Installing them where trail closures are and getting numbers of those who cross the line is a great place to start. Just be aware, some of the cameras will be considered a donation because they will get stolen of smashed. As an avid hunter I can't tell you how many of ours have been stolen, smashed or tampered with (opening and taking the cards). Hiding them is key but people will see the foot prints in the snow going to them to check the cards. But its worth a shot.

nhcatrider · 01-03-2018, 08:10 PM

My local club at home had an issue about 5 years ago with irresponsible riding. We got sneaky putting up the cameras, I pulled my sled up near a tree and another rider brought a ladder over. We then sent a skinny person 20 feet up the ladder to put the camera up. 3 days later we had our culprits and the problem was solved. No footprints were left in the snow which helped, but its a bit awkward to carry a large ladder on a sled and not be noticed. Unfortunately this doesn't always work and the land owners close their land to us.

billy · 01-04-2018, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhcatrider

My local club at home had an issue about 5 years ago with irresponsible riding. We got sneaky putting up the cameras, I pulled my sled up near a tree and another rider brought a ladder over. We then sent a skinny person 20 feet up the ladder to put the camera up. 3 days later we had our culprits and the problem was solved. No footprints were left in the snow which helped, but its a bit awkward to carry a large ladder on a sled and not be noticed. Unfortunately this doesn't always work and the land owners close their land to us.

maybe set them up from the groomer instead of sled?

01-02-2018, 10:54 AM	#6
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,950 Thanks: 80 Thanked 971 Times in 433 Posts	Unfortunately.... If we do not police ourselves, the sport as we know it in NH will be killed off. Property owners are not going to be so generous when opening up their land for our use when it becomes a hassle.. be it noise or trash or failure to stay on the trail! If you see someone being a TOOL... say something. Take pic or a vid and send it into F&G.. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid. Last edited by Woodsy; 01-02-2018 at 12:12 PM.

01-03-2018, 02:38 PM	#12
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,950 Thanks: 80 Thanked 971 Times in 433 Posts	Trail Cams It might be time for ALL of the clubs to invest in some trail cams for the trouble areas? This helps the property owners and the clubs.... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

01-03-2018, 03:31 PM	#16
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,950 Thanks: 80 Thanked 971 Times in 433 Posts	ishoot... While I do think them getting destroyed or stolen could happen.... the clubs have the advantage. 1st... the people don't know they are there... so there is the element of surprise. 2nd... clubs can use ladders to get the cam's high enough so that they cannot be reached easily. 3rd... the clubs can move the cameras around. 4th... a couple of well placed signs at junctions indicating trail cams are in use (junctions nowhere near actual trail cams) can go a long way. Trailcams are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used by the clubs and F&G to help with the issue. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

12-30-2017, 04:52 PM	#3
Outdoorsman Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 816 Thanks: 113 Thanked 193 Times in 126 Posts	About 5ish years ago, with the help of my local snowmobile club, I built a decent (not elaborate) bridge across the brook on my property. I supplied most of the material. To be fair, this trail was used more by locals than the general riding population, but it was a secondary feeder trail that was generally used as a shortcut for a smaller loop ride and was open and used by the public. Three weeks after building that bridge, someone had stolen ALL the new materials used to make that bridge. 2x4's, Plywood etc. and left a mess of what little was not stolen. I had the trail closed and there is no longer a reasonable "loop trail" as far as I know. So, with all due respect, I can not ever see a land owner being "selfish". It is the few that ruin it for the many. Sorry for the rant.

12-30-2017, 06:37 PM	#4
nhcatrider Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 167 Thanks: 19 Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts	I went with him one spring to clean up the trash that was left behind. The area of trash was out of sight of his house and the road. We filled his pickup when we cleaned up, and the area was clean before winter. This had happened over several years and the club was warned repeatedly as well as signs were posted. He even supplied trash barrels but they were hardly used and instead beer cans and other assorted trash was buried in the snow. He raises dogs and got sick of the predatory animals that were being attracted to the trash that was left behind. Since closing the trail he has not had a problem with animals. Seeing all of this I agree with his decision, even though it was a select few that ruined it for everyone else.

01-03-2018, 06:17 AM	#8
SAB1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Tuftonboro Posts: 1,169 Thanks: 182 Thanked 297 Times in 220 Posts	Very frustrating! The trail off 19 mile bay parking lot that heads south to Lang pond road is closed again this year and the trail off Melvin bay that is a left at power line and goes to castle lot is closed again though many are using it (there is no rope across it just a sign which is a mistake) I met a nice guy in the castle lot Sunday afternoon that is working with Wolfboro club. He is trying to give Wolfboro a rerout across his land to help get this trail open again but....he said people have been snowmobiling all over his land the past two weeks and he's thinking of pulling back his offer. I agree with woodsy above, we all need to do more policing ourselves but it may not do much. I think a lot of non local people don't visit club websites and see the closures and they just follow tracks already on the trails. But then and again when I think of the way I see folks driving their boats on the lakes with little to no idea what a buoy is .........

01-03-2018, 01:45 PM	#10
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,532 Thanks: 1,574 Thanked 1,609 Times in 823 Posts	Wow, this thread took on a life of its own!! We are fighting an uphill battle with land development and liability concerns. When we throw irresponsible riding into the mix, it becomes near impossible. It is nice to see the support by many for our clubs and snowmobiling in general!

01-03-2018, 02:21 PM	#11
Tom T Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Self policing and getting the word out to others is going to be the best way to handle these issues. I volunteer with the Wolfeboro Snowmobile Club and SAB1 is correct we are close to having a reroute to the castle, if we get this through its in thanks to generous landowners. Anyone that is involved in this sport owes any landowner allowing trail access a world of thanks. Ishoot308 is correct a sign should be sufficient, even if we put fences up they find a way around them. A few just dont give a damn. 19 mile bay there was a no snowmobile sign posted, it sounds like someone took it down. Just another example if the ignorance of a few. We have 3 no riding signs right next to each other near the transfer station and there are tracks going right through them. Again a few dont care. Maybe if we catch the ones abusing the right we can start getting the point across with a picture of there registration sent to fish and game. If you dont want to report them to fish and game notify your local club let them take care of it. Our club has over 200 man hours into trail maintenance this year and this does not include our officers who spend countless hours talking with landowners, making sure permission forms are signed, looking for reroutes and the list goes on. All clubs work endless hours for all riders to enjoy. If we dont make a stand, police these individuals and spread the word our clubs will be gone. Read the NHSA trail reports - many clubs are in the same battle. Moultonborough, Sandwich, Osspiee, Scurb Oaks are just a few in our backyards that have already lost trails. Talk to your fellow riders, bring up the conversation at the coffee shops, local restaurants, happy hours wherever you like to spend time and have conversations. We need everyone to know about these issues. Most importantly we need the landowners to know we care.

01-03-2018, 03:29 PM	#15
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,419 Thanks: 720 Thanked 1,386 Times in 960 Posts	Isn't it sad that we've come to this!?

01-03-2018, 04:24 PM	#18
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,532 Thanks: 1,574 Thanked 1,609 Times in 823 Posts	We have a couple that we move around

01-03-2018, 04:39 PM	#19
SAB1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Tuftonboro Posts: 1,169 Thanks: 182 Thanked 297 Times in 220 Posts	Its worth a try if some clubs have a little surplus cash. Installing them where trail closures are and getting numbers of those who cross the line is a great place to start. Just be aware, some of the cameras will be considered a donation because they will get stolen of smashed. As an avid hunter I can't tell you how many of ours have been stolen, smashed or tampered with (opening and taking the cards). Hiding them is key but people will see the foot prints in the snow going to them to check the cards. But its worth a shot.

01-03-2018, 08:10 PM	#20
nhcatrider Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 167 Thanks: 19 Thanked 29 Times in 27 Posts	My local club at home had an issue about 5 years ago with irresponsible riding. We got sneaky putting up the cameras, I pulled my sled up near a tree and another rider brought a ladder over. We then sent a skinny person 20 feet up the ladder to put the camera up. 3 days later we had our culprits and the problem was solved. No footprints were left in the snow which helped, but its a bit awkward to carry a large ladder on a sled and not be noticed. Unfortunately this doesn't always work and the land owners close their land to us.