UV Water System

[NHDOLFAN]

I have a place on Rattlesnake Island and carry water to the property. I thought about digging a drive point well but feel that it may be alot of work for nothing. I want to take advantage of the lake water and realize that either a UV Water System or Reverse Osmosis Sysytem would be best. Does anyone have any experience with either? If so, what system would you recommend.

[lakershaker]

I am also on Rattlesnake, and put in a comprehensive filter system that works great for filtering lake water. First is a sediment filter, then a UV, then a R/O for the fridge & a drinking spigot at the sink. This is the best tasting water I have ever had, and everyone that tries it also thinks so.

We bought it from WaterTiger (www.watertiger.net) in Canada, and the customer service was really great. I think we spoke with Eric, and he spent a lot of time walking through our requirements and what we should be looking for. We got the Silver Water combo system, and the plumber we used had no problem installing it.

You can PM me with questions - in the spring you can come by and see it if you want.

LakerShaker

[NHDOLFAN]

Thank you very much for the info. I will certainly look you up if I have questions and/or need to see the set-up.

[codeman671]

You can get the same components locally without having to bring it in from BC. I had Gilford Well put in a whole house sediment filter and a Trojan Max UV system. We draw from the lake and our water tastes good. We could have taken it one step further and ran an RO but we use a water bubbler with 5gal bottles for drinking. We certainly don't have to, our water has been tested and is perfect but its just habit. My wife is an Oncology nurse so she is concerned with MBTE and other chemicals from gas in the water and an RO is still not foolproof against it. Being that our water is drawn from about 10' down there really is no issue.

You can buy the whole house filter and RO units right at Lowes and do it yourself, and the Trojan can be bought at most well or water companies or found online. Gilford stocks them.

When I am done drinking beer or margaritas, our tap water tastes great.

[NHDOLFAN]

I will check locally as well. It is always good to have a few glasses of water after spending the day with beer and magaritas.

[bilproject]

I use an Ulta-Pur UV system on Bear Island. I have a sediment/alge filter at the pump. My UV unit has 2 pre filters a 10 micron cloth filter and a 5 micron carbon filter. The carbon filter removes MTBE and other volitile organic compounds. It also remove cysts that will not be killed by the UV. I've used mine 2 years now and have determined that I need to get my intake deeper where alge is not so prolific. Other than that I start the season on new filters and change them at mid season. I purchased the unit on line for around $750 with extra light, light tube and filters to go one season. Installation was just cut into the line into the house and plumb up. I used PVC so it was easy to remove.

[Orion]

bilproject and lakershaker, have you had your water tested with those systems? I'd like to stop hauling water but not yet convinced that the filtering makes the lake water completely safe.

[bilproject]

Yes I have had the water tested. Results are better than Meredith municipal water which also uses lake water for it's raw water. All new municipal plants use UV to kill bacteria. Chlorine is only added to keep bacteria from growing in the piping system once the water leaves the plant. Reverse osmosis is also effective but has higher operating cost per unit of water treated. In areas where exotic chemical plants have polluted water sources, a combination of reverse osmosis and UV are used. I treat all my water for a 2 bath 4 bedroom house with an $800.00 unit. To do that with reverse osmosis I would have to spend about 4-5 times as much on equipment and have the regular task of back flushing the system and disposing of the backflush water. A charcoal filter of 5 microns will filter out cysts not killed by UV and most if not all organic chemicals. It will certainly filter out gasoline, oils and their common additives.
The beauty of the UV system is that it just installs in line and plugs in the wall. Bulbs are good for 10,000 hours and use the electric of a small floresent desk lamp.

[bilproject]

One thing I forgot to mention in operating a UV system on a seasonal basis. is that you need to disenfect your house plumbing downstream of the UV unit. I ususally open at ice out so we can fish. While my buddy gets the boat and gear ready I hook up the pump. Before I put in any filters I run 1 gallon of bleach into the piping by filling the filter cannisters with bleach, then turning on faucets until I smell the bleach. I leave this highly clorinated water in the pipes for 2-4 hours while we hopfully catch some salmon. Then I flush it out into buckets (will kill good bacteria in your septic if you flush it). The buckets gas off in 2 days and can be dumped safely.
You are doing this because you left connections open in the fall where bacteria could enter the system and grow. The UV unit only kills bacteria in the water that passes through the unit. This is a good practice for any house plumbing system used on a seasonal basis. Even one connected to city water but drained in winter.

[Orion]

Excellent information and tips bp. Many thanks, very useful and insightful.

[fatlazyless]

Lowe's Gilford has a Whirlpool reverse osmosis, under-the-sink, filter appliance with three 12" long cylindrical gizmos for $155., reduced down from $168. A detailed display explains the methodology of reverse osmosis, and they carry replacement cylinders and a variety of differant water filtering and treatment items. Did not see any ultra violet systems, there.

Plus, Lowe's offers free, courtesy cups of coffee and hot chocolate. What a good place to go for a cheap night out!

[BeaverIslandGuy]

Originally Posted by codeman671

You can get the same components locally without having to bring it in from BC. I had Gilford Well put in a whole house sediment filter and a Trojan Max UV system. We draw from the lake and our water tastes good.

We have used Gilford Well for decades, and they consulted with us when we rebuilt out systems 4 years ago. We use a basic sediment filter and UV, and the combination is great. For drinking water and ice, we do have a refrigerator with a charcoal cartridge as well. We do use a smaller micron filter for sediment, and find we need to change it about every 4-6 weeks in the summer, and the charcoal filter about half way through.

Call and ask for Norm Harris at Gilford Well. He and his brother now run the business.

Bilproject - thanks for the tip on the bleach. House is now plumbed with the new PX piping instead of copper. Do you think this would be an issue with only a short soak? Also, how to you isolate the toilets in terms of not letting the clorinated water into the septic system?

NHDOLFAN - We used to have a point well, but always had trouble with it. Now have a pipe that draws water via a wellpump from 15 ft below surface (to help, as codeman states, to keep away from the gasoline-disturbed surface level). We built a large stand to hold the a standard wellpump veritically (as if you leave them horizontal or tilted they tend to burn up their bearings) which holds the pump 2 feet off the bottom. Set up, with the filters/UV in the house, works great.

[fatlazyless]

What's worked for me for 16 years of year round use, winter, spring, summer, fall, is a 1/2hp-110v shallow well pump & 30 gal, vertical tank located in the kitchen, next to the refrigerator. It draws from a 125' x 1 1/4" poly vinyl butyl, black flexible hose feeding from a depth of five feet in the lake with a foot valve at the lower end. Other than the foot valve screen, and the aerator screens on the kitchen-bath sink, it has no filter, no reverse osmosis, no chlorine.....just lake water...and I'm healthy as a horse...and just as smart.

To keep from freezing, it has a 333 watt internal, inside the hose, heat wire, on a thermostat. Installed everything, myelf, in November 1992, and so far, no problems....knock on black vinyl butyl tubing.... One year, forgot to turn on the 15a circuit breaker, and the water line froze up in early January. Switched the breaker to "on" and 12 hours later, the water was flowing.

Excuse me while I pat myself on the back....pat..pat..pat...I am the greatest unlicensed plumber in the history of the world...or at least since they invented water !

[bilproject]

What you experience with filters is about right BIG. How deep in the lake is your intake line. I did some diving this year in front of my house and was suprised at the concentration of alge growing on every thing above 35 feet. Fertilizers must be causing this growth as I don't remember it like that years ago. PEX or copper doesn't matter to bacteria growth. One to 2 hours of contact should be sufficient. Remember this is a precautionary proceedure in case something gets in the pipe and dies. I changed the flex connectors on my toilets to the new oring hand tight type so it is easily disconnected from the toilet end. Just flush the treated water into a pot or small bucket until clear, then reconnect toilet.

[bilproject]

Less, I'm interested to know how that heat wire works. How does it pass out of the line? Does it have a fitting and plug? Is the thermostat measuring air temp or temp of water in the line? Sounds like a better way to keep from freezing rather than an outside wrap. Id like to stay out on Bear until the Ice chases me.

[fatlazyless]

The heat wire comes as a system, with 1 1/4" black tubing, heat wire, thermostat control, thermostat sensor which gets taped to the outside of the black tube, and instructions. Made by an Ontario company named Tenorex, if I remember correct.

Surprisingly, the ditch you dig between the house and the water is recommended to be just four inches below surface, and just wide enough for the tube, or about 1 1/2" wide. For crossing a rocky embankment, the tube goes inside aa 2" pvc pipe, under the rocks, to create a wind break against heat loss. So, it enters the lake at a point under the water, and below the ice. My unit draws 3 amps/888watts/220volts for a 125' length. The heat wire makes a loop, going out and back, but is contained within a thick insulation so it basically looks like a single wire. It accesses the inside of the black tubing through a tee with a rubber seal bushing.

Installed it myself in 1992 and so far, no problems and no callbacks.

The control box has a little red light which clicks on when the adjustable thermostat, set at 34 or 35, calls for heat.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by NHDOLFAN

I have a place on Rattlesnake Island and carry water to the property. I thought about digging a drive point well but feel that it may be alot of work for nothing. I want to take advantage of the lake water and realize that either a UV Water System or Reverse Osmosis Sysytem would be best. Does anyone have any experience with either? If so, what system would you recommend.

We have had a UV system like this
http://www.ultraviolet.com/water/sanitr01.htm
that was installed about 15 years ago, never a problem. We have the water tested every year mid summer and never had a single bacteria count.

The lake water is 1st treated with two filters: sediment and then the carbon type for taste and odor. Then the flow is through the UV system and into the cottage. We use the lake water for coffee, cooking, washing and so on. We do bring small amounts of well water from home to keep in the fridge for drinking but I often drink the tap water at camp.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...What's worked for me for 16 years of year round use, winter, spring, summer, fall, is a 1/2hp-110v shallow well pump & 30 gal, vertical tank located in the kitchen, next to the refrigerator. It draws from a 125' x 1 1/4" poly vinyl butyl, black flexible hose feeding from a depth of five feet in the lake with a foot valve at the lower end..."

I have a similar layout, with the following differences:

1) Against the clumps of algae that have been clogging foot valves during the last two decades, I added a pair of foot valves at the intake. (So that one would hopefully operate while the other was clogged). So far, so good.

2) The intake has been taken out to 15' depth, and stands above the bottom about 30". That also has worked well; however, one unforeseen problem with a long intake hose is that the anchors from rafters can move or damage that equipment.

3) No heater, as the place is seasonal. The 1" intake hose has an ordinary hose "bib" mounted below the lake level. The hose bib is opened during winter, so that the water level inside the hose adjusts automatically at whatever lake level exists during the winter.

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...it has no filter, no reverse osmosis, no chlorine.....just lake water...and I'm healthy as a horse...and just as smart..."

There is some evidence that drinking lake water directly is beneficial.

Scientists who study the "Hormesis" philosophy say that ingesting natural amounts of bacteria will help build an impressive defense against disease.

According to recent issues of Science News magazine, the human body already has an impressive sub-cellular array of biological countermeasures to disease.

Although I distill this camp's drinking water, hormesis has science going for it—and your horse-sense!

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...Excuse me while I pat myself on the back....pat..pat..pat...I am the greatest unlicensed plumber in the history of the world...or at least since they invented water !

I think what everyone misses with their pumping of lakewater is the ability to increase household water pressure.

Even with a 30' height above the lake, I've installed a very large showerhead and could discard the restrictor that some communities require be installed to assist in minimizing pressure (and expense) for their municipality water supplies. The result has been impressive.

I haven't quite installed the "needle-shower" on exhibit at Castle in the Clouds, but it's next on the list!

[fatlazyless]

Pyrotenax is the name of the Ontario maker of the heating cable.....I know...sounds like a disease...Oh Canada!

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that the summer weekends of continuous two-three foot wakes from boating traffic keeps the lake bottom squeeky clean....with no weeds, silt,or slimey growth layer....just the rough rocky bottom. Gotta love those slower moving cabin cruisers with their beneficial wakes......bring it on....more power to ya !

[Sunbeam lodge]

[QUOTE=fatlazyless;87998]The heat wire comes as a system, with 1 1/4" black tubing, heat wire, thermostat control, thermostat sensor which gets taped to the outside of the black tube, and instructions. Made by an Ontario company named Tenorex, if I remember correct.
You seem to be very knowledgeable in setting up a system to draw water from the lake. You indicated some time ago you were laid off truck driving.
For people with nasty Iron in the water that requires inefficient and expensive use of Integrated water sytem's equipment you could start a business installing a water systems like yours. Yours seems to be reliable and you are not poisoned.( yet )