Weed removal from lake

Fred Rat · 08-23-2008, 09:59 AM

I recently purchased waterfront property, and there are some weeds growing in the lake. I'm not sure what they are, they seem to be a fair amount of green leafy at the bottom and a single shoot/stalk that goes up to the surface.

I don't have too many of these, but I figure that if I don't want more, now is the time to remove them.

What is the proper way to remove them, is there anything I need to be careful about or that might make matters worse?
Are there any lake or Shore Line Protection related issues that I need to worry about.

The previous own left some sort of aquacide in the garage, I think it's some kind of weed killer you put in the lake.
Not even sure what's in it, but I have a feeling that it would be a very bad idea to use.

What's the right/legal/proper way to deal with these weeds.

Pineedles · 08-23-2008, 10:30 AM

I'm not sure whether you have milfoil or not, but you are correct to be careful in how you remove it. Not just with chemicals as this advisory states but breaking off the stems. http://www.lclt.org/invasive.htm

"Eurasian Water milfoil: Attempts at containing this aquatic plant include mechanical harvesting (much like an underwater lawnmower), hydroraking, building bottom barriers, lake level drawdown, fragment barriers, hand pulling, and biological control via a species of aquatic weevil. It is almost impossible to contain this plant as it can spread through humans (in boats) or animals breaking off stems and carrying them to other areas within a lake or to other bodies of water."

Puck · 08-23-2008, 11:08 AM

That sounds like pipewort. If so it's a native plant that is not that aggressive.

This may help you figure out what you have.

http://www.des.nh.gov/wmb/exoticspec.../PlantBook.pdf

Fred Rat · 08-23-2008, 01:52 PM

Do I just pull it or dig them out?

Newbiesaukee · 08-23-2008, 04:02 PM

I know nothing about the legalities of the situation, but why would you want to get rid of it?

SAMIAM · 08-23-2008, 08:42 PM

I hate to tell you,Fred Rat....but the government is not here to help you......by the time you get done dealing with wetlands,the EPA,the NAACP and other various gov. state and local agencies the weeds will be invading your house.If it were me,I'd go on line and order up 50lbs of enviro friendly herbicide and follow the directions.I got rid of a milfoil outbreak within 30 days.

ApS · 08-24-2008, 08:35 AM

This Pipewort is what I have at my place:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I know nothing about the legalities of the situation, but why would you want to get rid of it?

A good question:

it only flowers in August anyway. It may be denying exotic milfoil a place to propagate—we have zero milfoil here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Rat

Do I just pull it or dig them out?

You could pull the long shoots—they're the "flower".

If you dig them up, the plants will be gone, but the medium in which they are growing—mud and plant debris—likely will drift over to your neighbors', not winning you any friends.

Nearing sundown, the most effective predator of the Mosquito is the Dragonfly. Damselflies and Dragonflies often use the flowers as a safe perch above the water; otherwise, spiderwebs at docks and overhanging tree limbs will entrap many of them. They're not an aggressive plant: we've had them at our place for 52 years, and they're no more prominent than before.

Many islanders draw their water from the lake and, before 2006 anyway, every neighbor along this local mainland shoreline did too. Neighbors might be concerned about adding herbicides—a measure that's temporary anyway.

Those plants have a practical side, too. When I had my speedy Tornado catamaran sailboat (which has deep centerboards), I could slow a crash at the dock by first "harvesting" a big wad of them!

Onshore · 08-24-2008, 11:55 AM

Plants need 2 main things to grow: sunlight and nutrients. Winnipesaukee's water quality is good, so getting light is not a problem. The key is nutrients. The easiest, and btw legal way, to deal with the problem you are having is to be active on your frontage. If you utilize the water enough that leaf litter doesn't settle and accumulate, then there are no nutrients to feed the vegetation and it dies back or doesn't grow. If you want to be a little more aggressive and the area in question is exposed during drawdown then you can rake detritus off of exposed dry lakebed in the fall without a permit. You do need a permit if you are going to remove vegetation from the water. I will tell you up front that if it is native vegetation and you are not completely overrun, or if it is an obviously natural transition, ie. you are located at the mouth of a stream or river, it is very possible that a permit will not be granted.

Right about now I know there are a few people thinking that this is a prime example of government over-regulation, that it's just a few plants and won't hurt anything, and that people have a right to enjoy their property and that may require removing some weeds. I know this because I hear it frequently on the phone and in the field. I understand all of these sentiments, but there are reasons for the regulations. Property taxes on waterfront can be a tough pill to swallow, but the simple truth is once you cross the waterline, it is property belong to the public of the state of NH. No one pays taxes on the lakebed, only the land abutting it. A littoral property owner does have more rights than a non-littoral owner but those rights are not unlimited; they are still subject to the greater good of the public. Removing vegetation from the lake is analogous to walking onto your neighbors property and cutting down the Lilac bushes because you don't like the smell. Most people wouldn't dream of doing it that to their neighbor, but many would not hesitate to remove weeds from the lake. Another point that people often make is that theirs is just one property on a big lake. Well yes, the individaul asking the question is only concerned about one property, but if the State allows it on one property then the State must allow it on all similar properties and the cumulative result can be severe. And while it may be a big lake much of it is too deep to allow vegetative growth. The vegetation needs to be in the near shore areas and this is a relatively small portion of the lake.

The state of NH is charged with protecting the public waters and preventing the destruction of wildife habitat and water quality. Plant life is wildlife habit and is also the filter protecting water quality. Many aquatic insects are dependent upon aquatic vegetation for food and cover. No plants, no bugs. no bugs, no fish. Eventually this takes you to no fishermen buying licenses, food at local restuarants, paying to stay in a hotel for a weekend... you get the point.

Going back to the earlier statement that plants need light and nutrients... The nutrients don't show up because the plants are there; the plants grow because the nutrients are available. Plants take advantage of the situation that exists. The plant with the competeive advantage wins out. If you remove the plants, the nutrients will still be there but the competive edge changes. If you have a situation where the nutrients are easily mixed into the water column, such as through surface run-off then the advantage goes to a species such as algae because of its abiltiy to proliferate quickly. If you have nutrients present in the sediment then the advantage may go to exotic Milfoil it it happens to float into the area because it's growth rate allows it to shade everything else out quickly. Comparatively speaking the native vegetation is not so bad.

Sorry, not trying to rant, just anticipating some arguments and trying to lay everything out on the table in advance.

Fred Rat - If you still decide to remove these plants and you are going to take your chances on doing it without a permit... Do it with a rake in the calm part of early morning or late evening so that any suspended materials can settle out more quickly. PLEASE do NOT dump 50 lbs of herbicide in the lake... not even the "enviro friendly" kind...

Good luck.

dpg · 08-24-2008, 09:28 PM

Fred Rat - quit asking/posting.....Go into the lake pull up what you do not like getting the roots and throw into the woods. You will not destroy any eco-balance of the lake. As Samian stated you'll be looking into it "the proper way" for months, maybe years.

Orion · 08-25-2008, 08:22 AM

We have not been getting a good Fall drawdown for a few years now. The result is a lot of new shorefront weeds are appearing where there previously wasn't any. Shore Things is correct that they need nutrients, and the lack of drawdown has allowed the sediment to build up in shallower areas than previously and weeds are now showing up in areas that were once sandy. Maybe this year we'll get one if we get some normal weather.

Fred Rat · 08-25-2008, 02:59 PM

Thank you all for the wide range of suggestions and input.

I don't yet know what I will do, but I do know that I won't be adding 50 LB's of herbicide to the lake.

Sounds like just pulling them will only cause them to regrow or be replaced by potentially something worse.

I don't think a draw down will get the water low enough to deal with it that way.

Seems like my best bet (and legal) is to either do nothing and ignore the little buggers, or just to be a bit more active in their area and encourage them to leave.

As I think I said in my post. I don't have a lot of them and really only wanted to get ahead and make sure they don't take over. So now that I know what they are, know that they are native and slow growing. I won't do anything aggressive, nor illegal or ill-advised.

I appreciate that others must have much worse problems with weeds and State/Permitting issues. I know this probably gets very frustrating from both sides of the issue. I was just trying to get myself a bit educated and not just jump in and do something.

Thank you all

08-23-2008, 09:59 AM	#1
Fred Rat Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Weed removal from lake I recently purchased waterfront property, and there are some weeds growing in the lake. I'm not sure what they are, they seem to be a fair amount of green leafy at the bottom and a single shoot/stalk that goes up to the surface. I don't have too many of these, but I figure that if I don't want more, now is the time to remove them. What is the proper way to remove them, is there anything I need to be careful about or that might make matters worse? Are there any lake or Shore Line Protection related issues that I need to worry about. The previous own left some sort of aquacide in the garage, I think it's some kind of weed killer you put in the lake. Not even sure what's in it, but I have a feeling that it would be a very bad idea to use. What's the right/legal/proper way to deal with these weeds.

08-23-2008, 10:30 AM	#2
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,550 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 672 Times in 369 Posts	Weed Removal I'm not sure whether you have milfoil or not, but you are correct to be careful in how you remove it. Not just with chemicals as this advisory states but breaking off the stems. http://www.lclt.org/invasive.htm "Eurasian Water milfoil: Attempts at containing this aquatic plant include mechanical harvesting (much like an underwater lawnmower), hydroraking, building bottom barriers, lake level drawdown, fragment barriers, hand pulling, and biological control via a species of aquatic weevil. It is almost impossible to contain this plant as it can spread through humans (in boats) or animals breaking off stems and carrying them to other areas within a lake or to other bodies of water."

08-23-2008, 11:08 AM	#3
Puck Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Central NH Posts: 98 Thanks: 0 Thanked 86 Times in 20 Posts	That sounds like pipewort. If so it's a native plant that is not that aggressive. This may help you figure out what you have. http://www.des.nh.gov/wmb/exoticspec.../PlantBook.pdf Last edited by Puck; 08-23-2008 at 11:09 AM. Reason: spell check

08-23-2008, 01:52 PM	#4
Fred Rat Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yup, looks like Pipewort - how do I get rid of it? Do I just pull it or dig them out?

08-25-2008, 08:22 AM	#10
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 598 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	We need a good draw down We have not been getting a good Fall drawdown for a few years now. The result is a lot of new shorefront weeds are appearing where there previously wasn't any. Shore Things is correct that they need nutrients, and the lack of drawdown has allowed the sediment to build up in shallower areas than previously and weeds are now showing up in areas that were once sandy. Maybe this year we'll get one if we get some normal weather.

08-23-2008, 04:02 PM	#5
Newbiesaukee Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Coral Gables, winter; Long Island, summer Posts: 1,366 Thanks: 966 Thanked 575 Times in 300 Posts	I know nothing about the legalities of the situation, but why would you want to get rid of it?

The Following User Says Thank You to Newbiesaukee For This Useful Post:
ApS (08-24-2008)

08-23-2008, 08:42 PM	#6
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,937 Thanks: 349 Thanked 1,708 Times in 602 Posts	I hate to tell you,Fred Rat....but the government is not here to help you......by the time you get done dealing with wetlands,the EPA,the NAACP and other various gov. state and local agencies the weeds will be invading your house.If it were me,I'd go on line and order up 50lbs of enviro friendly herbicide and follow the directions.I got rid of a milfoil outbreak within 30 days.

08-24-2008, 11:55 AM	#8
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 505 Thanks: 12 Thanked 428 Times in 147 Posts	Plants need 2 main things to grow: sunlight and nutrients. Winnipesaukee's water quality is good, so getting light is not a problem. The key is nutrients. The easiest, and btw legal way, to deal with the problem you are having is to be active on your frontage. If you utilize the water enough that leaf litter doesn't settle and accumulate, then there are no nutrients to feed the vegetation and it dies back or doesn't grow. If you want to be a little more aggressive and the area in question is exposed during drawdown then you can rake detritus off of exposed dry lakebed in the fall without a permit. You do need a permit if you are going to remove vegetation from the water. I will tell you up front that if it is native vegetation and you are not completely overrun, or if it is an obviously natural transition, ie. you are located at the mouth of a stream or river, it is very possible that a permit will not be granted. Right about now I know there are a few people thinking that this is a prime example of government over-regulation, that it's just a few plants and won't hurt anything, and that people have a right to enjoy their property and that may require removing some weeds. I know this because I hear it frequently on the phone and in the field. I understand all of these sentiments, but there are reasons for the regulations. Property taxes on waterfront can be a tough pill to swallow, but the simple truth is once you cross the waterline, it is property belong to the public of the state of NH. No one pays taxes on the lakebed, only the land abutting it. A littoral property owner does have more rights than a non-littoral owner but those rights are not unlimited; they are still subject to the greater good of the public. Removing vegetation from the lake is analogous to walking onto your neighbors property and cutting down the Lilac bushes because you don't like the smell. Most people wouldn't dream of doing it that to their neighbor, but many would not hesitate to remove weeds from the lake. Another point that people often make is that theirs is just one property on a big lake. Well yes, the individaul asking the question is only concerned about one property, but if the State allows it on one property then the State must allow it on all similar properties and the cumulative result can be severe. And while it may be a big lake much of it is too deep to allow vegetative growth. The vegetation needs to be in the near shore areas and this is a relatively small portion of the lake. The state of NH is charged with protecting the public waters and preventing the destruction of wildife habitat and water quality. Plant life is wildlife habit and is also the filter protecting water quality. Many aquatic insects are dependent upon aquatic vegetation for food and cover. No plants, no bugs. no bugs, no fish. Eventually this takes you to no fishermen buying licenses, food at local restuarants, paying to stay in a hotel for a weekend... you get the point. Going back to the earlier statement that plants need light and nutrients... The nutrients don't show up because the plants are there; the plants grow because the nutrients are available. Plants take advantage of the situation that exists. The plant with the competeive advantage wins out. If you remove the plants, the nutrients will still be there but the competive edge changes. If you have a situation where the nutrients are easily mixed into the water column, such as through surface run-off then the advantage goes to a species such as algae because of its abiltiy to proliferate quickly. If you have nutrients present in the sediment then the advantage may go to exotic Milfoil it it happens to float into the area because it's growth rate allows it to shade everything else out quickly. Comparatively speaking the native vegetation is not so bad. Sorry, not trying to rant, just anticipating some arguments and trying to lay everything out on the table in advance. Fred Rat - If you still decide to remove these plants and you are going to take your chances on doing it without a permit... Do it with a rake in the calm part of early morning or late evening so that any suspended materials can settle out more quickly. PLEASE do NOT dump 50 lbs of herbicide in the lake... not even the "enviro friendly" kind... Good luck.

The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Onshore For This Useful Post:
ApS (08-24-2008), Jonas Pilot (08-24-2008), moose tracks (09-01-2008), Newbiesaukee (08-24-2008), Rose (08-24-2008), watrskir (08-27-2008)

08-24-2008, 09:28 PM	#9
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,624 Thanks: 157 Thanked 236 Times in 173 Posts	Fred Rat - quit asking/posting.....Go into the lake pull up what you do not like getting the roots and throw into the woods. You will not destroy any eco-balance of the lake. As Samian stated you'll be looking into it "the proper way" for months, maybe years.

08-25-2008, 02:59 PM	#11
Fred Rat Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks you all Thank you all for the wide range of suggestions and input. I don't yet know what I will do, but I do know that I won't be adding 50 LB's of herbicide to the lake. Sounds like just pulling them will only cause them to regrow or be replaced by potentially something worse. I don't think a draw down will get the water low enough to deal with it that way. Seems like my best bet (and legal) is to either do nothing and ignore the little buggers, or just to be a bit more active in their area and encourage them to leave. As I think I said in my post. I don't have a lot of them and really only wanted to get ahead and make sure they don't take over. So now that I know what they are, know that they are native and slow growing. I won't do anything aggressive, nor illegal or ill-advised. I appreciate that others must have much worse problems with weeds and State/Permitting issues. I know this probably gets very frustrating from both sides of the issue. I was just trying to get myself a bit educated and not just jump in and do something. Thank you all