Cyanobacteria Alert Issued for Blackey Cove (Moultonborough)

[root1]

Everyone seems to agree that the condition of our lakes are getting worse .... at an ever increasing rate.
Does anyone wish to comment about how they view the lakes are improving with age? Anyone? Bueller?

Without being too Draconian; and as distasteful as encouraging more state control/interference would be, I would happily like to see a line item on my RE tax bill to support a program like this:

The state (DES) can go through their records and force property owners (within 250' of the lake AND having no record of an approved septic system) to update/replace their system within five years.
The state could provide low interest loans (with the property as secured collateral) for those who cannot afford the update/replacement.
After eight years, 'non-compliants' will have a lien placed on their property.
Records of 'pump-out' must be submitted to the state.

If something isn't done soon, we are going to regret having ever purchased our waterfront homes. It might take 5 years ...... it might take 50 years ..... might take 100; any way you clock it, the lake is dying. And its OUR responsibility to slow it's demise. I encourage everyone to write their state rep, demanding corrective action, before it's too late.

Just my two cents worth .......

[tummyman]

And while you think it is only the lakefront people who need to have compliant systems....I totally agree but feel it should be ALL property owners, not jsut lakefront....what is your plan for the numerous boaters who I see every weekend with lots of people and kids stop to allow people to get in the water to use the cove as a bathroom? Or the boaters who anchor all day and perform the same??? These folks are impacting things as well, and not in a favorable way. Oh, and as mentioned before, what about the geese?

[longislander]

NH Lakes over 10 acres belong to the state

https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...6-20230125.pdf

https://legiscan.com/NH/text/HB276/2023

https://kanasatka.org/cyanobacteria/

https://www.epa.gov/water-research/c...t-network-cyan

https://www.cdc.gov/habs/pdf/cyanobacteria_faq.pdf

https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/2019_microcystin/

https://nhlakes.org/wp-content/uploa...ria-Blooms.pdf

https://newhampshirebulletin.com/bri...water-quality/

https://indepthnh.org/2023/06/13/cya...-1m-in-budget/

https://www.des.nh.gov/land/septic-systems

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...HTOC-L-487.htm

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa...487/487-17.htm

[longislander]

Last Action
Nov 14, 2023, House: Executive Session: 11/14/2023 10:00 am LOB 210-211 HC 42


https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bil...&q=billVersion

[tis]

Originally Posted by tummyman

And while you think it is only the lakefront people who need to have compliant systems....I totally agree but feel it should be ALL property owners, not jsut lakefront....what is your plan for the numerous boaters who I see every weekend with lots of people and kids stop to allow people to get in the water to use the cove as a bathroom? Or the boaters who anchor all day and perform the same??? These folks are impacting things as well, and not in a favorable way. Oh, and as mentioned before, what about the geese?

Well said! Thank you!!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by root1

Everyone seems to agree that the condition of our lakes are getting worse .... at an ever increasing rate.
Does anyone wish to comment about how they view the lakes are improving with age? Anyone? Bueller? Without being too Draconian; and as distasteful as encouraging more state control/interference would be, I would happily like to see a line item on my RE tax bill to support a program like this: The state (DES) can go through their records and force property owners (within 250' of the lake AND having no record of an approved septic system) to update/replace their system within five years.
The state could provide low interest loans (with the property as secured collateral) for those who cannot afford the update/replacement. After eight years, 'non-compliants' will have a lien placed on their property. Records of 'pump-out' must be submitted to the state.

If something isn't done soon, we are going to regret having ever purchased our waterfront homes. It might take 5 years ...... it might take 50 yea rs ..... might take 100; any way you clock it, the lake is dying. And its OUR responsibility to slow it's demise. I encourage everyone to write their state rep, demanding corrective action, before it's too late. Just my two cents worth .......

Why not add septic systems to the usual inspections accomplished on every sale of real estate? Roof, termite, survey, structural defects, building code violations—among others--chimney, furnace.

'Seems like NH Realty groups would advance such mandatory inspections to reduce lakes' toxicity.

ETA:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=29209

The above new thread lists this:

"7. Consider updating RSA 485-A:39 to require replacement of septic systems determined to be in failure at the time of sale of property. Advisory Committee Recommendation.  "

Page 84, (Supplemental Actions)

[Descant]

ApS, I don't think we need to add more RSA requirements for things that should be part of a buyer's due diligence. Many of them come up in other ways or aren't part of the buyers plan if there will be a bulldozer or a major addition. Most buyers hire a home inspector and banks and/or insurance companies have their own requirements. My last two deals were cash buyers who had not desire to spend $500 for a home inspection because the negotiated price allowed for some unknowns. Condition of roof and furnace are obvious to an observer without great skill or training. A septic system on an unused camp may pass in the spring and fail by August when the new owner brings in three generations of his family to enjoy the new place.

[John Mercier]

NH doesn't have any inspection requirement at the time of sale/transfer.

Your mortgage company may have one, and your insurance company may have one... but the state doesn't.

Also, many properties do not go to sale or transfer for decades, if ever.

But I would guess a lot more human waste enters the waters directly rather than private septic system failures.

[DickR]

NH does require a septic assessment prior to sale of any property on a water body covered by the shoreline protection laws. Here is a link: https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...-01/ssb-10.pdf

[John Mercier]

Didn't know that...
But it doesn't seem to have stopped the problem.

So what step do you go to next? Periodic? Over what period of time? At what cost? And how does a legislator handle the push back from landowners questioned the number of boaters - mostly not waterfront owners paying higher taxes - going directly into the water?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Didn't know that...
But it doesn't seem to have stopped the problem.

So what step do you go to next? Periodic? Over what period of time? At what cost? And how does a legislator handle the push back from landowners questioned the number of boaters - mostly not waterfront owners paying higher taxes - going directly into the water?

Any boat that has a head is supposed to be inspected and have an inspection sticker on it. Marinas are not supposed to launch boats that are not properly equipped. So, all grey water and black water goes into a holding tank to be pumped into an approved system. Free at most gas docks/marinas. That works OK for boats with a cuddy cabin and a head. As we get more and more bow riders and pontoons, it appears these don't have an onboard head and/or holding tank.
We hear a lot of suspicion and accusations about "improper discharge" at the sand bars, but I've never heard of anybody actually testing the water at a sandbar. What do the 'tooners do? I've heard that in other states there are barges that travel the sandbars with pump out and porta-pottis that travel around to provide "relief".
Is this really a problem, or do we just think it is because we don't know? This doesn't seem to bother the folks who go to the sandbars.

[John Mercier]

All those boats floating at the sandbar for hours do not have a ''head''. The occupants simply slip into the water and do their ''thing''.
You don't think they are holding it for hours on end?

Also Bayside Cemetery has a problem with ''trespassers''... they aren't there visiting... they are making a ''deposit'' right beside the lake.

Kayakers and canoeist sometimes do the same thing.

If the Legislature adds a large cost to waterfront owners... and we need to think about all the brooks, streams, and rivers in the watershed... they are going to point out correctly that issue. And to my way of thinking... the Legislature has nothing that they can do about it.

[ITD]

I've been through two of the septic assessment, they are quite thorough. I looked at a couple properties that had tight box septics (no discharge, need to be pumped) when we were buying, they couldn't pass the inspection, were small properties that could support a new system. Honestly I thought the rule applied to all NH properties, that it doesn't is a little shocking, it should be required for all properties. If you are looking for a smoking gun for this problem, malfunctioning or inadequately designed systems on watersheds and beyond are a big problem.

[John Mercier]

If they are urinating and defecating directly into the water, or onto the nearby shore, how is fixing septic systems going to make any difference?

The 2013 fertilizer law helped.
But a mixture of misapplication (not following directions), over application (using too much for the actual square footage), and not going for a phosporus-free (like Bonide) for existing lawn applications results in a lot of it just ending up in the run-off.

The application is virtually worthless on sloped terrain... and no one watches the forecasts for correct application... because we seldom have the correct conditions for usage in our area.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

If they are urinating and defecating directly into the water, or onto the nearby shore, how is fixing septic systems going to make any difference?

IF?????? We see it all the time.

[barefootbay]

At the risk of repeating myself the problem is too much
money , too many people !

[John Mercier]

Well, those people will more than likely fork it out to keep the blooms out of their area.

[Descant]

I thought we might have comments from 'headless" boaters as to how they deal with these issues when they spend the day at the bar. Posting "I don't go there" isn't informative to any solution, any more than claiming that "everybody does it."
I have to guess that the headless folks don't post in this discussion because they do exactly what they're accused of. But I never hear of anybody being sick after swimming at a sandbar all day.

If we test water at public beaches and pools routinely, should DES or HHS be testing at the sandbars? LWA takes samples all around. Perhaps they would test for the general health of the lake in these congested areas?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Descant

I thought we might have comments from 'headless" boaters as to how they deal with these issues when they spend the day at the bar. Posting "I don't go there" isn't informative to any solution, any more than claiming that "everybody does it."
I have to guess that the headless folks don't post in this discussion because they do exactly what they're accused of. But I never hear of anybody being sick after swimming at a sandbar all day.

If we test water at public beaches and pools routinely, should DES or HHS be testing at the sandbars? LWA takes samples all around. Perhaps they would test for the general health of the lake in these congested areas?

As a headless boater....first off I only deal with #1 issues...if it's #2 we are going to a mainland bathroom or back to camp... there is no other option!

For #1 issues, Reliance makes toilet waste bags that are great. We keep a simple 5 gallon home depot bucket on board with one of those toilet seats that fits on top. The reliance waste bag fits nicely inside and solidifies liquid waste for easy storage and disposal. The changing room on the pontoon works great... Use these same bags while ice fishing...

Dan

[Descant]

Thanks. I knew there had to be some creative solutions.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

Thanks. I knew there had to be some creative solutions.

You noticed that the #2 is back to the mainland or camp bathroom.
Many of the boats are not leaving the area all day.

It isn't like swimming at a beach where we learned our lessons and put bath houses with certified septic systems close by for quick access.

Which is why they also notice the problem at Bayside. Years ago, the Boy Scouts and then other organizations would develop Tread Lightly and finally Leave No Trace. A cathole 6-8 inches deep at least 200 feet from surface water at one time was possible without all the developed land around the lake.

It now takes extraordinary measures packing out waste... that people aren't likely to do.

[ITD]

This isn't good for the lake.


From the Center Harbor Fire Department Facebook page:

November 10

At 2:25 this afternoon, Center Harbor firefighters responded to assist with a wastewater line rupture in the area of 183 Whittier Highway. Upon arrival, it was determined that a 10" line had ruptured, causing approximately 1500 gallons of partially treated wastewater to spill into a small stream and into Lake Winnipesaukee. Crews worked to mitigate the further release of wastewater into the surface water while the line was shut down and a vacuum truck was called to remove as much material as possible. As a precaution, we advise people to stay out of the water in the area south of Half Mile Island to Bullrush Cove. Local and state health officials will be coordinating further testing if needed and recommendations regarding water safety. Currently, there are no restrictions on water or sewer usage in the Center Harbor area.

[Lakegeezer]

While giving a nod to the gross factor, keep the urine problem in perspective. If an acre of water, 10 feet deep, had the state maximum phosphorus level (8 parts/billion), it would take 40,000 average doses of pee to bring it up to 10 parts/billion, where algae blooms start to happen. There are other phosphorus sources of course, but headless weekender contributions are insignificant compared to the impact of the boats they arrive in. Prop wash and boat wake add measurable phosphorus to the water column by stirring up bottom sediment, where centuries of nutrient deposits reside.

[John Mercier]

And the Legislature will have a tough time dealing with that issue from a statutory point.

So stopping the addition of the nutrients, and stopping the agitation of the existing sequestered nutrients, is a much bigger issue than our Legislature is willing to face.

The lakes that have the least amount of shorefront development, the most bath houses around them, and the least amount of motorized traffic should fair the best... but even that is only the amount of time.

We simply ''love'' our lakes to death.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

Any boat that has a head is supposed to be inspected and have an inspection sticker on it. Marinas are not supposed to launch boats that are not properly equipped. So, all grey water and black water goes into a holding tank to be pumped into an approved system. Free at most gas docks/marinas. That works OK for boats with a cuddy cabin and a head. As we get more and more bow riders and pontoons, it appears these don't have an onboard head and/or holding tank.
We hear a lot of suspicion and accusations about "improper discharge" at the sand bars, but I've never heard of anybody actually testing the water at a sandbar. What do the 'tooners do? I've heard that in other states there are barges that travel the sandbars with pump out and porta-pottis that travel around to provide "relief".
Is this really a problem, or do we just think it is because we don't know? This doesn't seem to bother the folks who go to the sandbars.

This is why I avoid sandbars! Just the thought of swimming in all that urine grosses me out. And when you get to be my age you have to pee every 1/2 hour.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by DickR

NH does require a septic assessment prior to sale of any property on a water body covered by the shoreline protection laws. Here is a link: https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...-01/ssb-10.pdf

I'm pretty sure that if you look at the site assessment form in the link, it shows that an evaluation of the land is required, and a statement that the land has a septic system; but it does not require that the system itself be inspected and confirmed to be in good working order.

[John Mercier]

It does state since 1993 to require on on-site inspection. Not sure to the level of quality that would be.

But it also doesn't go to the State, just the buyer as part of the P&S agreement.