Airbnb Collapse & The Lakes Region?

WinnisquamZ · 06-29-2023, 08:02 AM

Clean sheets and free breakfast weigh into my calculations. Also, safety is plays into it.

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TiltonBB · 06-29-2023, 08:22 AM

I have had a weekly rental house on the lake for over 20 years. The house sleeps 10.

Until this year it was always full for the summer by April with advertising only on Craigslist. This year, I think the price of groceries, gas Etc. have left people with a lot less discretionary money to spend. It has been very slow to fill.

In April, because there were still open weeks, I put it on Airbnb for the first time. Within 48 hours three additional weeks were booked. The fees at Airbnb add a lot to the total cost of a weeks rent. I am actually surprised that people will pay that much.

In a related note: I am hearing from friends in the boat sales business that the rush of the past three years has died. Also, auto manufacturers are again advertising and offering discounts and lower interest rate financing.

It looks like the slowing of the economy has arrived.

Merrymeeting · 06-29-2023, 08:42 AM

Last week, The Boston Globe had an article about how the summer rental business on The Cape has collapsed. Rentals running at 20%+ vacancies. It was mostly attributed to things having become too expensive (with short term rental owners as one reason) and too crowded. People are now going with other options.

VitaBene · 06-29-2023, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Last week, The Boston Globe had an article about how the summer rental business on The Cape has collapsed. Rentals running at 20%+ vacancies. It was mostly attributed to things having become too expensive (with short term rental owners as one reason) and too crowded. People are now going with other options.

We have a house in W Hyannisport, I was shocked to hear what some of our neighbors were charging to rent their places via VRBO or Air BnB. A lot of people have bought houses thinking they can easily Air BnB or similar, but as noted the market has shifted some. The Cape, like our area needs housing for the people that work there.

dickiej · 06-29-2023, 10:42 AM

Somewhat related I guess…I sell advertising for our local newspaper out here in Hood River, OR, a thriving tourist town in the Columbia River Gorge. Real estate prices and rents are through the roof…just about everywhere I go, businesses owners tell me the same thing, “I don’t want to advertise because if I get any busier, I will have to hire more employees and no one can afford to live here.”
Our newspaper has an opening for a reporter…four candidates have been offered the position, but all four have turned it down because it doesn’t pay enough to afford an apartment. We have a lot of air bnb and vrbo rental property. I guess short term rentals have severely diminished the amount of long term rentals.

jbolty · 06-29-2023, 02:43 PM

I used to use airbnb a fair amount when traveling but not since about 2019. the add on fees are crazy and it's way too expensive for just a couple days.

my friend looked at a place in holderness for a weekend $350/night. $150 cleaning + $100 airbnb fee $1000

Common Man inn was about 1/2 that

garysanfran · 06-29-2023, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbolty

I used to use airbnb a fair amount when traveling but not since about 2019. the add on fees are crazy and it's way too expensive for just a couple days.

my friend looked at a place in holderness for a weekend $350/night. $150 cleaning + $100 airbnb fee $1000

Common Man inn was about 1/2 that

However, is this not the difference between a hotel room and a house with amenities? I've seen some impressive AB&B houses for rent.

WinnisquamZ · 06-29-2023, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysanfran

However, is this not the difference between a hotel room and a house with amenities? I've seen some impressive AB&B houses for rent.

Absolutely. It all depends on ones expectations. We don’t spend much time in the room.

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jbolty · 06-29-2023, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garysanfran

However, is this not the difference between a hotel room and a house with amenities? I've seen some impressive AB&B houses for rent.

I only started using it originally because it was a lot cheaper than a hotel and generally I just want a place to sleep. Last airbnb for me was in New Orleans for Jazzfest week and it worked out great to be less expensive and way less crazy then being in the french quarter

If I was coming to the lake for a week and wanted a water front house or whatever then paying a couple hundred in fees is no big deal but they are dead for short term rentals if the add on fees are as much as the nightly rate.

marinewife · 06-29-2023, 06:51 PM

We started visiting NH in 2010 thru AirBnB summer rentals all over the state on different lakes for a week's vacation. (My husband had lived in NH in the 70's.)

Our choices were modest smaller homes, nothing was really pricey, and it helped us decide which area to retire to within 5 summers.

I think lately the fees have really climbed, cleaning fees, admin fees, etc, but we liked the choice of catching the fish and cooking it for dinner as well as the extra space.

We're grateful we had the opportunity to see so many different towns to decide.

LoveLakeLife · 06-30-2023, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinewife

We started visiting NH in 2010 thru AirBnB summer rentals all over the state on different lakes for a week's vacation. (My husband had lived in NH in the 70's.)

Our choices were modest smaller homes, nothing was really pricey, and it helped us decide which area to retire to within 5 summers.

I think lately the fees have really climbed, cleaning fees, admin fees, etc, but we liked the choice of catching the fish and cooking it for dinner as well as the extra space.

We're grateful we had the opportunity to see so many different towns to decide.

Fill us in! Where you decide and why? Where did you not decide and why not?!

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Redbarn · 07-01-2023, 08:44 AM

VRBO and Airbnb fees have gotten crazy for both hosts and guests. Once the rental cross I think around 5k the fees add up to around 1k on VRBO. Crazy.

However people really don't understand the cleaning fee. It is carved out so you aren't paying taxes and fees on the cost of cleaning. And contrary to popular believe hotels do charge you for fees and cleaning and carve it out so you are not paying taxes on it. Last time I noticed it in the fine print it was 35 bucks to clean the room. Vrbos cleanings are entire home or condo typically and cleaners are charging 85 bucks and hour. So seeing cleaning fees for a home around 150 to 200 is very typical.

Descant · 06-29-2023, 08:53 AM

I just don't see a comparison in renting a house/condo and renting a hotel room. Two different types of facilities. Our family members routinely use VRBO for vacations. You pick the type and size place you want. That's a lot different than being assigned a room on the 8th floor near the elevator where there is all sorts of noise from other guests coming and going.

Yes, if you are buying now, just as an investment, it is hard to keep the prices down to what the previous owner was charging, or what appears on other VRBO listings in the same area. On the other hand, in places like the Lakes Region, I expect more rentals will come on the market as VRBO or AirBNB make it easier to rent for just an occasional week. Haven't seen it in the LR yet, but there are more companies like Vacasa who will manage your rental if you are not close enough to do it yourself.

erk · 07-03-2023, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Clean sheets and free breakfast weigh into my calculations. Also, safety is plays into it.

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Lol we provide clean sheets but you’re on your own for breakfast. We rent our place up here for four weeks every summer and could easily rent it the whole summer so we haven’t seen a down turn in the vacation rental market

Weekend Pundit · 07-03-2023, 12:16 PM

The few AirBnB's/VRBO's I am familiar with here in Gilford are booked through the summer. I do know a few of them have dropped their prices because they were asking too much for what they offered. I expected to see the 'trends' like pricing overshoot at the beginning, then seeing it settle down to something more reasonable. If they don't their bookings will drop.

I haven't been seeing new STRs popping up like they did last year though I know there are a couple of new ones that will be opening once they get their applications through the Planning Board.

As an aside, present commercial STR owner/operators in town have started submitting their applications to the PB. Gilford is allowing existing O/O's to keep operating their STRs without the required permit as long as they get their applications submitted. The PB will process those applications on a first come/first served basis. Applications for new STRs are being processed first because under the new ordinance they cannot start renting until their application is approved by the PB.

Weekend Pundit · 07-04-2023, 09:07 AM

A friend sent this too me which shows the AirBnB/VRBO craze may have passed its peak: https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/...are-about-sell

Despite my earlier post, I found that a couple of AirBnBs in my immediate neighborhood haven't been rented this Fourth of July week. I would think they would have been booked some time ago but no one is occupying them.

ishoot308 · 07-04-2023, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

A friend sent this too me which shows the AirBnB/VRBO craze may have passed its peak: https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/...are-about-sell

Despite my earlier post, I found that a couple of AirBnBs in my immediate neighborhood haven't been rented this Fourth of July week. I would think they would have been booked some time ago but no one is occupying them.

That is a very good article that explains what is going on.Thanks for posting it!….As the article states the phoenix area is the epicenter of the collapse followed by the southwest. Won’t be long before more are affected up here…

Dan

thinkxingu · 07-06-2023, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That is a very good article that explains what is going on.Thanks for posting it!….As the article states the phoenix area is the epicenter of the collapse followed by the southwest. Won’t be long before more are affected up here…

Dan

The author also believes that vacation areas will be hit, too, but says the overall decline could be a positive thing as it will open up more buying opportunities in a very thin housing market.

As I mentioned above, I'm all for pulling homes out of investor/STR hands and putting them in the hands of committed owners/families. I think it's clear that that makes for better neighbors and neighborhoods.

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Weekend Pundit · 07-06-2023, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The author also believes that vacation areas will be hit, too, but says the overall decline could be a positive thing as it will open up more buying opportunities in a very thin housing market.

As I mentioned above, I'm all for pulling homes out of investor/STR hands and putting them in the hands of committed owners/families. I think it's clear that that makes for better neighbors and neighborhoods.

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So many homes disappeared from the housing market as various investors/LLCs/etc were offering above asking, and in many cases, offering cash. It's difficult for a home-buyer to compete with that. One such home in my neighborhood went for well above market price - $505,000 - in a neighborhood that was seeing other similar homes going for ~$300K. The buyers owned a number of STRs all around the Lakes Region and this was just another acquisition. They get ~$2600/week for that property, a home that is identical to mine in layout and size. Even if they only rent it out 20 weeks a year that's $52,000 a year. It would take about 9-1/2 years to get their investment back. (I am using 20 weeks because that's how many weeks they've been able to rent their STR over the past year.)

How many properties like that have had to cut their prices to get any bookings at all? How many with mortgages are able to make their payments if their bookings are weak?

I expect quite a few in my town are likely to go on the market within a year and for less then they paid for them.

ishoot308 · 07-06-2023, 04:05 PM

Honestly the good news about this situation is things always tend to self correct over time. High interest investors tend to sell off which allows family people to purchase during a better financial climate. Is there turmoil in between, sure, but the opportunities do eventually become available as they have in the past cycle after cycle….

Just my opinion….

Dan

FlyingScot · 07-06-2023, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Honestly the good news about this situation is things always tend to self correct over time. High interest investors tend to sell off which allows family people to purchase during a better financial climate. Is there turmoil in between, sure, but the opportunities do eventually become available as they have in the past cycle after cycle….

Just my opinion….

Dan

I like to think that's true, but if you look at Winni real estate over the long term, it has done extraordinarily well compared to incomes. Which is another way of saying it has gotten tougher for each generation to buy

John Mercier · 07-06-2023, 09:55 PM

Hard to say...
We have never been beyond the Boomer cycle.

FlyingScot · 07-07-2023, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Hard to say...
We have never been beyond the Boomer cycle.

Yes, a good point. But that may be a decade or two from now. So far, boomers have continued to push up values by continuing to live in large expensive places even after retirement, and then also living longer.

John Mercier · 07-07-2023, 12:01 PM

The youngest Boomers are 58.
But that would be past the peak births and headed to the lull of the Generation X.

Also, the first line of Boomers reaching pre-retirement had more reasonable valuations to work with... so that was the steepest part of the demand curve.

Covid pulled forward some demand... and with the higher product costs of new construction and renovation... put even more pressure on prices.

Roche does a pretty decent job of comparison to see when we reach peak pricing.https://www.laconiadailysun.com/real...a105bf89e.html

Biggd · 07-08-2023, 10:51 AM

Boomers get blamed for everything now. It's the American way now, it's always someone else's fault!

FlyingScot · 07-08-2023, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd

Boomers get blamed for everything now. It's the American way now, it's always someone else's fault!

I hope you're kidding. I didn't mean to suggest there was fault involved, and this empty nester has plenty of square footage, so it would be hypocritical of me to point fingers. But it is a pretty basic set of facts that the children of boomers are looking at much tougher economics than we were 30 years ago, and a huge driver of that is the real estate gains that we have made collectively.

The lake economics are a screaming example of that, as John's link points out. I thought my Winni house was a once in a lifetime reward that made no financial sense. Wrong! My splurge would be a huge windfall if I sold. It's as if I've been using it for free.

WinnisquamZ · 07-08-2023, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I hope you're kidding. I didn't mean to suggest there was fault involved, and this empty nester has plenty of square footage, so it would be hypocritical of me to point fingers. But it is a pretty basic set of facts that the children of boomers are looking at much tougher economics than we were 30 years ago, and a huge driver of that is the real estate gains that we have made collectively.

The lake economics are a screaming example of that, as John's link points out. I thought my Winni house was a once in a lifetime reward that made no financial sense. Wrong! My splurge would be a huge windfall if I sold. It's as if I've been using it for free.

True. But, unless you start borrowing against the gain it’s value is irrelevant. Just number. Enjoy it

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Biggd · 07-08-2023, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I hope you're kidding. I didn't mean to suggest there was fault involved, and this empty nester has plenty of square footage, so it would be hypocritical of me to point fingers. But it is a pretty basic set of facts that the children of boomers are looking at much tougher economics than we were 30 years ago, and a huge driver of that is the real estate gains that we have made collectively.

The lake economics are a screaming example of that, as John's link points out. I thought my Winni house was a once in a lifetime reward that made no financial sense. Wrong! My splurge would be a huge windfall if I sold. It's as if I've been using it for free.

I don't believe that for one second. When I bought my first house in the 80's interest rates were 18%. I worked 100 hours a week to afford it. Were prices cheaper, of course they were but it was not easier!
I'm sure they will be saying the same thing 40 years from now when the average American home in the US is 3 million or more.

FlyingScot · 07-09-2023, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd

I don't believe that for one second. When I bought my first house in the 80's interest rates were 18%. I worked 100 hours a week to afford it. Were prices cheaper, of course they were but it was not easier!
I'm sure they will be saying the same thing 40 years from now when the average American home in the US is 3 million or more.

I don't mean to diminish your personal experience, there are very few strong enough to work 100 hours/week, and you deserve your reward. And definitely 1985 was one of the very worst times to take out a mortgage

But stepping back from your first house or my second house as one-off examples, you don't need to believe me. There are 100 places you could look for this info. Here's one set of broader data--30 years ago (one generation) the median home price to median income ratio was 4.4, today it is 7.6.
https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-...ehold%20income.

John Mercier · 07-09-2023, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I don't mean to diminish your personal experience, there are very few strong enough to work 100 hours/week, and you deserve your reward. And definitely 1985 was one of the very worst times to take out a mortgage

But stepping back from your first house or my second house as one-off examples, you don't need to believe me. There are 100 places you could look for this info. Here's one set of broader data--30 years ago (one generation) the median home price to median income ratio was 4.4, today it is 7.6.
https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-...ehold%20income.

But your comparing lake homes to homes in general.
It would be relatively hard for me to find an on-water lot to build around Winnipesaukee or the tear-downs that have diminished for the time being.
But I can easily find lots in the lakes region to build on.

Basic materials cost have come way down... so it is a great time to build.
What is in short supply is skilled labor.

But the DIY field is ever expanding.
I think as we build more housing... local prices will either stabilize or maybe even drop. Just like the late 1980's and the 2008 cycle.
Properties that rose the most, will most likely drop the most.

Oddly, our kids don't see ''suffering''.
More of their finances are labor than capital. Labor currently has a pretty strong hand.

Also, high interest rates is a great time to take out a mortgage. A contrarian investor would take the lower cost of the property, pay the higher interest rate, and look forward to a time when they would refinance. Thus ending up with the lower initial cost and the lower interest rate.

John Mercier · 07-08-2023, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd

Boomers get blamed for everything now. It's the American way now, it's always someone else's fault!

No. It is a cycle.

Second homes are most often purchased by near retirees/retirees (55+); that demographic generally has the highest amount of assets due to years of working and building their wealth. They may purchase as a vacation getaway, but also think of that last ''forever home''. Lake houses tend not to be ''starter homes''.

So the latest surge is the cycle of Boomers reaching 55+ and will drop as the number of people in that group drops. GenX tended to be a smaller number of people... so they will not be able to keep up the same demand.

When Millennials reach 55, because of the size of that generation, a new cycle will start another surge.

Their taste in housing is different so a lot of remodeling and building will go on when that happens... we expect that run to begin around 2051.

Biggd · 07-09-2023, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

No. It is a cycle.

Second homes are most often purchased by near retirees/retirees (55+); that demographic generally has the highest amount of assets due to years of working and building their wealth. They may purchase as a vacation getaway, but also think of that last ''forever home''. Lake houses tend not to be ''starter homes''.

So the latest surge is the cycle of Boomers reaching 55+ and will drop as the number of people in that group drops. GenX tended to be a smaller number of people... so they will not be able to keep up the same demand.

When Millennials reach 55, because of the size of that generation, a new cycle will start another surge.

Their taste in housing is different so a lot of remodeling and building will go on when that happens... we expect that run to begin around 2051.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post for this? My post was a general statement, not just about real estate. When I was in my 30's and 40's I don't ever remember my generation blaming our parents for our problems.
You can continue with your infomercial without quoting me!

John Mercier · 07-09-2023, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm not sure why you quoted my post for this? My post was a general statement, not just about real estate. When I was in my 30's and 40's I don't ever remember my generation blaming our parents for our problems.
You can continue with your infomercial without quoting me!

Because I was responding to your post.

Biggd · 07-07-2023, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I like to think that's true, but if you look at Winni real estate over the long term, it has done extraordinarily well compared to incomes. Which is another way of saying it has gotten tougher for each generation to buy

That's usually the case for off water properties but lakefront doesn't go down much because there's limited supply.

Descant · 07-06-2023, 04:11 PM

We had a big run up in stocks from 2016-2020. When markets turned, money that was in stocks went to real estate. Remember, bonds were still paying close to 0%, so options were limited. If you invested in RE, you not only got rents, but depreciation. When you sell, the IRS wants to recapture that depreciation, and they want cash. If you can find another property, you can postpone that claw back, but the whole thing gets complicated and the STR market, I think, will be in upheaval for awhile. If you're buying STR investments in vacation areas, I suggest not buying all in the same geographic, or market, area.

Juiced06GTO · 07-06-2023, 06:53 PM

Bring on the cheap Winni waterfront!! I am sitting on the sidelines until things get back to normal.......and I pay off my primary house lol 5 years, i need 5 years!! I'll be 45 and ready to dive into 30 years of debt for a summer place lol!!

TiltonBB · 07-06-2023, 08:17 PM

The market in general may have it's ups and downs. I think Winnipesaukee waterfront homes are a little different because of the limited supply. I have not seen the prices drop as much as the non waterfront homes when the market drops and they seem to be at the top when prices increase.

The current 7% mortgages will have an effect on much of the market but many people buying waterfront homes are paying cash.

In my Florida neighborhood, and it is a new neighborhood of 800 homes, I understand that 62% of buyers are paying cash. But the demographic may be mostly older and retired people so that certainly affects the number who can pay cash.

06-29-2023, 08:22 AM	#2
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,012 Thanks: 699 Thanked 2,203 Times in 937 Posts	AirBnb I have had a weekly rental house on the lake for over 20 years. The house sleeps 10. Until this year it was always full for the summer by April with advertising only on Craigslist. This year, I think the price of groceries, gas Etc. have left people with a lot less discretionary money to spend. It has been very slow to fill. In April, because there were still open weeks, I put it on Airbnb for the first time. Within 48 hours three additional weeks were booked. The fees at Airbnb add a lot to the total cost of a weeks rent. I am actually surprised that people will pay that much. In a related note: I am hearing from friends in the boat sales business that the rush of the past three years has died. Also, auto manufacturers are again advertising and offering discounts and lower interest rate financing. It looks like the slowing of the economy has arrived.

07-01-2023, 08:44 AM	#12
Redbarn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 62 Thanks: 8 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	Fees VRBO and Airbnb fees have gotten crazy for both hosts and guests. Once the rental cross I think around 5k the fees add up to around 1k on VRBO. Crazy. However people really don't understand the cleaning fee. It is carved out so you aren't paying taxes and fees on the cost of cleaning. And contrary to popular believe hotels do charge you for fees and cleaning and carve it out so you are not paying taxes on it. Last time I noticed it in the fine print it was 35 bucks to clean the room. Vrbos cleanings are entire home or condo typically and cleaners are charging 85 bucks and hour. So seeing cleaning fees for a home around 150 to 200 is very typical.

06-29-2023, 08:53 AM	#13
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,373 Thanks: 1,352 Thanked 1,625 Times in 1,057 Posts	VRBO vs hotel I just don't see a comparison in renting a house/condo and renting a hotel room. Two different types of facilities. Our family members routinely use VRBO for vacations. You pick the type and size place you want. That's a lot different than being assigned a room on the 8th floor near the elevator where there is all sorts of noise from other guests coming and going. Yes, if you are buying now, just as an investment, it is hard to keep the prices down to what the previous owner was charging, or what appears on other VRBO listings in the same area. On the other hand, in places like the Lakes Region, I expect more rentals will come on the market as VRBO or AirBNB make it easier to rent for just an occasional week. Haven't seen it in the LR yet, but there are more companies like Vacasa who will manage your rental if you are not close enough to do it yourself.

07-03-2023, 12:16 PM	#15
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 347 Thanks: 26 Thanked 69 Times in 42 Posts	I Haven't Seen A Decrease But... The few AirBnB's/VRBO's I am familiar with here in Gilford are booked through the summer. I do know a few of them have dropped their prices because they were asking too much for what they offered. I expected to see the 'trends' like pricing overshoot at the beginning, then seeing it settle down to something more reasonable. If they don't their bookings will drop. I haven't been seeing new STRs popping up like they did last year though I know there are a couple of new ones that will be opening once they get their applications through the Planning Board. As an aside, present commercial STR owner/operators in town have started submitting their applications to the PB. Gilford is allowing existing O/O's to keep operating their STRs without the required permit as long as they get their applications submitted. The PB will process those applications on a first come/first served basis. Applications for new STRs are being processed first because under the new ordinance they cannot start renting until their application is approved by the PB.

07-04-2023, 09:07 AM	#16
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 347 Thanks: 26 Thanked 69 Times in 42 Posts	It Seems AirBnB's In Other Areas Are Struggling A friend sent this too me which shows the AirBnB/VRBO craze may have passed its peak: https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/...are-about-sell Despite my earlier post, I found that a couple of AirBnBs in my immediate neighborhood haven't been rented this Fourth of July week. I would think they would have been booked some time ago but no one is occupying them.

06-29-2023, 08:02 AM	#1
WinnisquamZ Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,064 Thanks: 211 Thanked 663 Times in 438 Posts	Clean sheets and free breakfast weigh into my calculations. Also, safety is plays into it. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

06-29-2023, 08:42 AM	#3
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,226 Thanks: 302 Thanked 800 Times in 368 Posts	Last week, The Boston Globe had an article about how the summer rental business on The Cape has collapsed. Rentals running at 20%+ vacancies. It was mostly attributed to things having become too expensive (with short term rental owners as one reason) and too crowded. People are now going with other options.

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06-29-2023, 10:42 AM	#5
dickiej Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: White Salmon, WA Posts: 300 Thanks: 21 Thanked 171 Times in 93 Posts	Somewhat related I guess…I sell advertising for our local newspaper out here in Hood River, OR, a thriving tourist town in the Columbia River Gorge. Real estate prices and rents are through the roof…just about everywhere I go, businesses owners tell me the same thing, “I don’t want to advertise because if I get any busier, I will have to hire more employees and no one can afford to live here.” Our newspaper has an opening for a reporter…four candidates have been offered the position, but all four have turned it down because it doesn’t pay enough to afford an apartment. We have a lot of air bnb and vrbo rental property. I guess short term rentals have severely diminished the amount of long term rentals.

06-29-2023, 02:43 PM	#6
jbolty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 664 Thanks: 320 Thanked 251 Times in 150 Posts	I used to use airbnb a fair amount when traveling but not since about 2019. the add on fees are crazy and it's way too expensive for just a couple days. my friend looked at a place in holderness for a weekend $350/night. $150 cleaning + $100 airbnb fee $1000 Common Man inn was about 1/2 that

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06-29-2023, 06:51 PM	#10
marinewife Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: the quiet side of the lake Posts: 109 Thanks: 56 Thanked 65 Times in 32 Posts	We started visiting NH in 2010 thru AirBnB summer rentals all over the state on different lakes for a week's vacation. (My husband had lived in NH in the 70's.) Our choices were modest smaller homes, nothing was really pricey, and it helped us decide which area to retire to within 5 summers. I think lately the fees have really climbed, cleaning fees, admin fees, etc, but we liked the choice of catching the fish and cooking it for dinner as well as the extra space. We're grateful we had the opportunity to see so many different towns to decide.

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ApS (07-17-2023)

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post:
FlyingScot (07-06-2023), ishoot308 (07-06-2023), Weekend Pundit (07-06-2023)

07-06-2023, 04:05 PM	#20
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 6,271 Thanks: 2,400 Thanked 5,287 Times in 2,058 Posts	Self Correcting Honestly the good news about this situation is things always tend to self correct over time. High interest investors tend to sell off which allows family people to purchase during a better financial climate. Is there turmoil in between, sure, but the opportunities do eventually become available as they have in the past cycle after cycle…. Just my opinion…. Dan __________________ It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!!

07-06-2023, 09:55 PM	#22
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,408 Thanks: 3 Thanked 598 Times in 494 Posts	Hard to say... We have never been beyond the Boomer cycle.

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Descant (07-07-2023)

07-07-2023, 12:01 PM	#24
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,408 Thanks: 3 Thanked 598 Times in 494 Posts	The youngest Boomers are 58. But that would be past the peak births and headed to the lull of the Generation X. Also, the first line of Boomers reaching pre-retirement had more reasonable valuations to work with... so that was the steepest part of the demand curve. Covid pulled forward some demand... and with the higher product costs of new construction and renovation... put even more pressure on prices. Roche does a pretty decent job of comparison to see when we reach peak pricing.https://www.laconiadailysun.com/real...a105bf89e.html

07-08-2023, 10:51 AM	#25
Biggd Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH Posts: 4,147 Thanks: 2,236 Thanked 1,194 Times in 760 Posts	Boomers get blamed for everything now. It's the American way now, it's always someone else's fault!

The Following User Says Thank You to John Mercier For This Useful Post:
Biggd (07-09-2023)

07-06-2023, 04:11 PM	#35
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,373 Thanks: 1,352 Thanked 1,625 Times in 1,057 Posts	We had a big run up in stocks from 2016-2020. When markets turned, money that was in stocks went to real estate. Remember, bonds were still paying close to 0%, so options were limited. If you invested in RE, you not only got rents, but depreciation. When you sell, the IRS wants to recapture that depreciation, and they want cash. If you can find another property, you can postpone that claw back, but the whole thing gets complicated and the STR market, I think, will be in upheaval for awhile. If you're buying STR investments in vacation areas, I suggest not buying all in the same geographic, or market, area.

07-06-2023, 06:53 PM	#36
Juiced06GTO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 213 Thanks: 9 Thanked 84 Times in 49 Posts	Bring on the cheap Winni waterfront!! I am sitting on the sidelines until things get back to normal.......and I pay off my primary house lol 5 years, i need 5 years!! I'll be 45 and ready to dive into 30 years of debt for a summer place lol!!

07-06-2023, 08:17 PM	#37
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,012 Thanks: 699 Thanked 2,203 Times in 937 Posts	The market in general may have it's ups and downs. I think Winnipesaukee waterfront homes are a little different because of the limited supply. I have not seen the prices drop as much as the non waterfront homes when the market drops and they seem to be at the top when prices increase. The current 7% mortgages will have an effect on much of the market but many people buying waterfront homes are paying cash. In my Florida neighborhood, and it is a new neighborhood of 800 homes, I understand that 62% of buyers are paying cash. But the demographic may be mostly older and retired people so that certainly affects the number who can pay cash.