Island Cottages/Camps

John Mercier · 03-01-2022, 12:00 PM

Architects design windows to be above the 2' floor to sill threshold... since they have no idea whether you will use the window manufacturer as prescribed in the plan. So unless someone renovates the sill heights... they should all meet the 2' threshold. This keeps designs and grades from being altered in the future in such a way as to violate the 6' rule.

The usual situation is a residential home that is then being used as a commercial... with a vinyl, the manufacturers that I have used have a field application option, while the others require the WOCD to be factory installed.

Historically, a 3' height was used to allow furnishing to be placed below a window without blocking it.

I've quoted a lot of windows for a lot of houses, and the WOCD option is seldom needed. That being because the 2' rule was initial followed in the framing.

In fact, I will not name the well known builder that had a customer request the WOCD and because the windows were all the same size, accidently placed almost all the WOCD units on the first floor... that is how I learned the little trick on the vinyl windows.

Riviera · 03-01-2022, 03:07 PM

John,

With all due respect, you are providing well articulated gobbledygook. As I alluded to in my prior post, the code requirements for window protective opening devices has nothing to do with rentals, and nothing to do with vinyl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Architects design windows to be above the 2' floor to sill threshold... since they have no idea whether you will use the window manufacturer as prescribed in the plan. So unless someone renovates the sill heights... they should all meet the 2' threshold. This keeps designs and grades from being altered in the future in such a way as to violate the 6' rule.

Architects often design homes with 2nd floor windows that have a sill height lower than 2 feet, particularly on higher end homes where a view is important. In that case, code requires the opening protection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The usual situation is a residential home that is then being used as a commercial... with a vinyl, the manufacturers that I have used have a field application option, while the others require the WOCD to be factory installed.

Huh? A home that is being used as commercial? Whether or not the device is field installed or factory installed is irrelevant. The window material is also irrelevant. If you are building a new residential home, and you don't meet the height/opening exemptions, you need the device in order to comply with the code. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I've quoted a lot of windows for a lot of houses, and the WOCD option is seldom needed. That being because the 2' rule was initial followed in the framing.

I'm sure there are a high percentage of new builds that meet the 2' sill height threshold. That said, this section of the code is often ignored or overlooked by architects, builders, and/or code officials. It doesn't help when building supply professionals provide mis-leading or incorrect information on internet forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

In fact, I will not name the well known builder that had a customer request the WOCD and because the windows were all the same size, accidently placed almost all the WOCD units on the first floor... that is how I learned the little trick on the vinyl windows.

I don't understand the vinyl "trick". Given the error, the solution is either to move the windows to the correct location, or install retrofit devices that comply with code. The window material is irrelevant. Builders screw up all the time, reputable or otherwise. The reputable ones fix it. The non-reputable ones make excuses.

I'm not trying to bust your chops. I'm simply suggesting that as a building supply professional, you need to be careful to either post accurate facts relevant to your profession, or don't post at all. Somebody might just make a bad purchase based on these statements, and your employer would not be happy.

For those reading the forums, "trust but verify". The trust portion is optional, and at your own risk.

hemlock · 03-01-2022, 05:46 PM

Its what I was told by code enforcement here is results of a search
Exception: The following low-energy buildings, or portions thereof, separated from the
remainder of the building by building thermal envelope assemblies complying with this section
shall be exempt from the building thermal envelope provisions of Section R402:
1. Those with a peak design rate of energy usage less than 3.4 Btu/h ft2 or 1.0 watts per
square foot (watt/ft2) of floor area for space conditioning purposes.
2. Those that do not contain conditioned space.
]3. Buildings and structures for which heating and cooling is supplied solely by utilization of
non-purchased renewable energy sources including, but not limited to, on-site wind, onsite
water or on-site solar power, or wood-burning heating appliances that do not rely on
backup heat from other purchased, non-renewable sources.[/COLOR]

John Mercier · 03-01-2022, 06:30 PM

International RESIDENTIAL Code is 24 inch at the sill. For a change of use to COMMERCIAL, the IBC is 36 inch at the sill.

JeldWen and Silverline have the WOCD built into the top sill.
Mathews Brothers have the WOCD built into a balance cover.

For any of the above when two identical windows exist, the WOCD can be moved without removing the window frame.
For the Mathews Brothers, even if the two windows are simply sized the same... the balance cover can be removed and inserted into the other window's channel.

WOCD must be factory installed from Marvin, Andersen, and JeldWen wood windows... after market retrofit devices void the warranty.

The programs we use ''scream'' at us whenever we try to do anything that doesn't meet code. Site changes is what we cannot control... those are the BCI. While some may ''overlook'' it, I can't imagine that the number of different jurisdictions that we sell into not one would be found.

WOCD registers a ''flag''. You cannot just skip past that question.
Tempered glass or Egress do not.

03-01-2022, 05:46 PM	#3
hemlock Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 37 Times in 17 Posts	wood stove exception Its what I was told by code enforcement here is results of a search Exception: The following low-energy buildings, or portions thereof, separated from the remainder of the building by building thermal envelope assemblies complying with this section shall be exempt from the building thermal envelope provisions of Section R402: 1. Those with a peak design rate of energy usage less than 3.4 Btu/h ft2 or 1.0 watts per square foot (watt/ft2) of floor area for space conditioning purposes. 2. Those that do not contain conditioned space. ]3. Buildings and structures for which heating and cooling is supplied solely by utilization of non-purchased renewable energy sources including, but not limited to, on-site wind, onsite water or on-site solar power, or wood-burning heating appliances that do not rely on backup heat from other purchased, non-renewable sources.[/COLOR]

03-01-2022, 12:00 PM	#1
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,422 Thanks: 3 Thanked 600 Times in 496 Posts	Architects design windows to be above the 2' floor to sill threshold... since they have no idea whether you will use the window manufacturer as prescribed in the plan. So unless someone renovates the sill heights... they should all meet the 2' threshold. This keeps designs and grades from being altered in the future in such a way as to violate the 6' rule. The usual situation is a residential home that is then being used as a commercial... with a vinyl, the manufacturers that I have used have a field application option, while the others require the WOCD to be factory installed. Historically, a 3' height was used to allow furnishing to be placed below a window without blocking it. I've quoted a lot of windows for a lot of houses, and the WOCD option is seldom needed. That being because the 2' rule was initial followed in the framing. In fact, I will not name the well known builder that had a customer request the WOCD and because the windows were all the same size, accidently placed almost all the WOCD units on the first floor... that is how I learned the little trick on the vinyl windows.

03-01-2022, 06:30 PM	#4
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,422 Thanks: 3 Thanked 600 Times in 496 Posts	International RESIDENTIAL Code is 24 inch at the sill. For a change of use to COMMERCIAL, the IBC is 36 inch at the sill. JeldWen and Silverline have the WOCD built into the top sill. Mathews Brothers have the WOCD built into a balance cover. For any of the above when two identical windows exist, the WOCD can be moved without removing the window frame. For the Mathews Brothers, even if the two windows are simply sized the same... the balance cover can be removed and inserted into the other window's channel. WOCD must be factory installed from Marvin, Andersen, and JeldWen wood windows... after market retrofit devices void the warranty. The programs we use ''scream'' at us whenever we try to do anything that doesn't meet code. Site changes is what we cannot control... those are the BCI. While some may ''overlook'' it, I can't imagine that the number of different jurisdictions that we sell into not one would be found. WOCD registers a ''flag''. You cannot just skip past that question. Tempered glass or Egress do not.