NHEC utility rate going down on Feb 1

Patofnaud · 01-30-2021, 07:48 PM

Annnnnnd once more people drive electric, and use less fossil fuel to tax and pay for roads,, guess what? Tax folks who use electricity... So you end up paying for it either way.

Use gas, lower electric bill by giving the $ at the pump.
Use electric, higher electric bill and they will tax us on the lack of fuel we buy to cover road maint.

Either way, we pay.

FlyingScot · 01-31-2021, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patofnaud

Annnnnnd once more people drive electric, and use less fossil fuel to tax and pay for roads,, guess what? Tax folks who use electricity... So you end up paying for it either way.

Use gas, lower electric bill by giving the $ at the pump.
Use electric, higher electric bill and they will tax us on the lack of fuel we buy to cover road maint.

Either way, we pay.

Like Green Eggs and Ham, it seems opinions on electric cars are split.

There's a group of people who have EVs who love them for their performance, economics, and/or environmental benefits.

There's a group that has never had one, doesn't really know the specifics or numbers, and thinks of all sorts of problems.

The one group that does not exist in any significant number is people who have EVs and do not like them.

"Try them, try them, you will see..."

thinkxingu · 01-31-2021, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Like Green Eggs and Ham, it seems opinions on electric cars are split.

There's a group of people who have EVs who love them for their performance, economics, and/or environmental benefits.

There's a group that has never had one, doesn't really know the specifics or numbers, and thinks of all sorts of problems.

The one group that does not exist in any significant number is people who have EVs and do not like them.

"Try them, try them, you will see..."

I'm open to an electric vehicle, but the access to, and logistics of, just keep me from looking. What could replace my 4Runner in terms of utility/comfort/reliability is unclear as are the costs and how I'd need to retrofit my garage and camp for power. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is how it would fit into my life. I drive 20k+/year, often going back and forth to the lake and taking road trips, so where and how to charge is a real concern.

All of this is thrown out the window by simply pulling up to one of the thousands of gas stations.

That being said, a hybrid could potentially solve these, too, but with the increased complexity of two systems.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

TheTimeTraveler · 01-31-2021, 12:20 PM

I wonder how many years it will take for a majority of the gas stations to close or go out of business in light of the fact that most auto producing companies will have switched over to electric vehicle production by 2035.....

Will gasoline be hard to actually obtain 25 or 30 years from now in light of the speeding electric technology being implemented everywhere...... Who will need it and who will use it? I can see Boats, Airplanes, and Heavy road and construction equipment needing gasoline, but what else?

thebix · 01-31-2021, 12:54 PM

Its hard to find the neighborhood livery stable or harness maker anymore, and blacksmiths for your horses's shoes are also rare!

As the world changes / evolves, new businesses are created (EV charging stations, solar panels) and old disappear (wagon and harness makers, gasoline filling stations).

FlyingScot · 01-31-2021, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I'm open to an electric vehicle, but the access to, and logistics of, just keep me from looking. What could replace my 4Runner in terms of utility/comfort/reliability is unclear as are the costs and how I'd need to retrofit my garage and camp for power. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is how it would fit into my life. I drive 20k+/year, often going back and forth to the lake and taking road trips, so where and how to charge is a real concern.

All of this is thrown out the window by simply pulling up to one of the thousands of gas stations.

That being said, a hybrid could potentially solve these, too, but with the increased complexity of two systems.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Yes--you would need to add a charger or two. Any electrician can go this, indoors or out, cost is about $2K.

One thing that is not well known is that Tesla has a huge Supercharger Network--these chargers add >300 miles of range to your car per hour. Obviously, this is slower than gas, but you need to stop for gas weekly, and you'll only to charge on the road a few times a year. I use them when I drive to NY. Check out the map--they are plentiful along any highway trip.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds=...tion%20charger

thinkxingu · 01-31-2021, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yes--you would need to add a charger or two. Any electrician can go this, indoors or out, cost is about $2K.

One thing that is not well known is that Tesla has a huge Supercharger Network--these chargers add >300 miles of range to your car per hour. Obviously, this is slower than gas, but you need to stop for gas weekly, and you'll only to charge on the road a few times a year. I use them when I drive to NY. Check out the map--they are plentiful along any highway trip.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds=...tion%20charger

I don't always use the 3rd row, but with kids we need to have it. The only Tesla with a 3rd row is the X? At $80k plus the charging stuff for my house, I can buy two 4Runners and have $10k to waste on fuel and maintenance over, what's the lifetime of two 4Runners, 25 years?

I mean, I'd be willing to go a little over for the initial investment if I made much/most of it back over the lifetime of the vehicle, but it's just not there yet.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

FlyingScot · 01-31-2021, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I don't always use the 3rd row, but with kids we need to have it. The only Tesla with a 3rd row is the X? At $80k plus the charging stuff for my house, I can buy two 4Runners and have $10k to waste on fuel and maintenance over, what's the lifetime of two 4Runners, 25 years?

I mean, I'd be willing to go a little over for the initial investment if I made much/most of it back over the lifetime of the vehicle, but it's just not there yet.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Yes, agreed that Tesla X is wicked expensive, as is the S. The models with economics comparable to gas engines are the 3 and Y. But I recognize that does not help if you need a truck.

Let's hope Tesla (and GM!) are able to bring the prices down even further

Crusty · 02-01-2021, 12:29 AM

I would like to have an electric car. However at this point it would need to be an "extra" for driving around town. Even with the taxpayer subsidies on the purchase price, I'm not wanting to spend that kind of money. Certainly, as time goes on, electric vehicles of all kinds will become cheaper, faster to charge, and much more numerous. I saw an AP article just today indicating that moving to electric vehicles would eliminate many autoworker jobs, as electric cars are much simple to construct with many fewer parts. Also, the batteries are largely built by robots.

One question is: Will the electric grid support the extra load of charging 100 million cars every day? I believe the answer is: Not even close. California can't even run their air conditioners on a hot day and they refuse the environmental cost of more power lines. Since you can't truck in electricity, does NH want to double the number of power lines running through the state?

Once the gas stations are gone, gasoline will be sold in hardware stores, probably around $20+ / gallon. It will eventually become as hard to find as kerosene.

The big question in the Northeast will be how to survive during a major power outage without any transportation? A propane generator won't put much of a charge in a battery. And of course, all the emergency and maintenance vehicles will be electric too.

NH.Solar · 02-05-2021, 11:46 AM

In addition to last month's rate drop, the NHEC has just announced in the February member newsletter that they will be holding steady on both their transmission charges and the membership fee (aka meter fee) for the coming year. This is significant because increases in the meter fees and/or transmission fees are a method often used by the utility companies in lieu of rate increases. Utility costs increase by roughly 2-3% a year on average but are sometimes reflected by the meter fees rather than rate increases and thus go unnoticed. To get the last two months news from the Co-op is truly a treat.
The internet rates shown in the newsletter look good too and I'll be looking forward to the day they run service my way...

01-31-2021, 12:54 PM	#5
thebix Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Down since 2009. Posts: 100 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts	The only thing constant is change Its hard to find the neighborhood livery stable or harness maker anymore, and blacksmiths for your horses's shoes are also rare! As the world changes / evolves, new businesses are created (EV charging stations, solar panels) and old disappear (wagon and harness makers, gasoline filling stations).

02-05-2021, 11:46 AM	#10
NH.Solar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton Posts: 238 Thanks: 47 Thanked 142 Times in 79 Posts	More good news from the Co-op! In addition to last month's rate drop, the NHEC has just announced in the February member newsletter that they will be holding steady on both their transmission charges and the membership fee (aka meter fee) for the coming year. This is significant because increases in the meter fees and/or transmission fees are a method often used by the utility companies in lieu of rate increases. Utility costs increase by roughly 2-3% a year on average but are sometimes reflected by the meter fees rather than rate increases and thus go unnoticed. To get the last two months news from the Co-op is truly a treat. The internet rates shown in the newsletter look good too and I'll be looking forward to the day they run service my way... __________________ Peter NH Solar

01-30-2021, 07:48 PM	#1
Patofnaud Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Tilton/Paugus Bay Posts: 239 Thanks: 13 Thanked 64 Times in 45 Posts	Annnnnnd once more people drive electric, and use less fossil fuel to tax and pay for roads,, guess what? Tax folks who use electricity... So you end up paying for it either way. Use gas, lower electric bill by giving the $ at the pump. Use electric, higher electric bill and they will tax us on the lack of fuel we buy to cover road maint. Either way, we pay.

01-31-2021, 12:20 PM	#4
TheTimeTraveler Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 888 Thanks: 278 Thanked 288 Times in 178 Posts	I wonder how many years it will take for a majority of the gas stations to close or go out of business in light of the fact that most auto producing companies will have switched over to electric vehicle production by 2035..... Will gasoline be hard to actually obtain 25 or 30 years from now in light of the speeding electric technology being implemented everywhere...... Who will need it and who will use it? I can see Boats, Airplanes, and Heavy road and construction equipment needing gasoline, but what else?

02-01-2021, 12:29 AM	#9
Crusty Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Columbus OH / Smiths Pt Posts: 128 Thanks: 176 Thanked 158 Times in 57 Posts	I would like to have an electric car. However at this point it would need to be an "extra" for driving around town. Even with the taxpayer subsidies on the purchase price, I'm not wanting to spend that kind of money. Certainly, as time goes on, electric vehicles of all kinds will become cheaper, faster to charge, and much more numerous. I saw an AP article just today indicating that moving to electric vehicles would eliminate many autoworker jobs, as electric cars are much simple to construct with many fewer parts. Also, the batteries are largely built by robots. One question is: Will the electric grid support the extra load of charging 100 million cars every day? I believe the answer is: Not even close. California can't even run their air conditioners on a hot day and they refuse the environmental cost of more power lines. Since you can't truck in electricity, does NH want to double the number of power lines running through the state? Once the gas stations are gone, gasoline will be sold in hardware stores, probably around $20+ / gallon. It will eventually become as hard to find as kerosene. The big question in the Northeast will be how to survive during a major power outage without any transportation? A propane generator won't put much of a charge in a battery. And of course, all the emergency and maintenance vehicles will be electric too.