When does it end? How can it?

[WinnisquamZ]

Must add, by keeping the schools closed many small businesses have lost their employees till fall. One more kick to the groin for the small business owners in NH. Now I must tell you I agree with his decision. Many logical headaches for 6 weeks if opened


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Must add, by keeping the schools closed many small businesses have lost their employees till fall. One more kick to the groin for the small business owners in NH. Now I must tell you I agree with his decision. Many logical headaches for 6 weeks if opened


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I'm not following you—almost all of my seniors are working because they're "essential": grocery stores, elderly homes, takeout restaurants. Wouldn't there be an influx of available local kids?

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[fatlazyless]

Obesity Linked to Severe Coronavirus Disease, Especially for Younger Patients by Roni Caryn Rabin, NY Times, Friday, April 17, 2020

No subscription needed ..... just google first six words in title ..... talks about over weight body and the virus, especially for men. .....

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

They look pretty advanced to me.
If they can do why can't our "advanced" country do it?

The U.S. Army is using a device that looks like a "Tricorder" with an antenna. No PPE in sight.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

Yes it was a joke, I don't even get their paper. I thought some of you would get a chuckle out of it. I only know about them because of their stupid adds.

Editors of The Epoch Times read Chinese Communist Party newspapers, and listen to CCP propaganda. These are skills for which Americans aren't ready.

[thinkxingu]

The latest data suggests that NH is already past peak but that MA still has time (image attached).

I've seen a lot of references to how opening up too quickly would be like "cutting the parachute cord early because it's slowed us down."

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think there's a balance to be struck—Dan Crenshaw, Texas representative, discussed how this doesn't have to be a bipolar approach, it can have nuance.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coron...e/2108705/?amp

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[rscalzo]

From today's New York Times:

First mistake. The Times and Post have gone overboard to report anything they can spin as negative.

[jazzman]

Roadblock time on the NH Mass border? I guess it's not constitutional, but it hasn't stopped other states from doing it. It might save some of the NH based hotels and restaurants. I don't think it was an accident that NH restaurants were closed the day before St Patrick's Day with all the bars already closed in Mass.

I haven't got a clue what the summer will bring. Will everyone just want to escape from Mass, Conn, NY, NJ or will everyone be afraid to go on vacation? Maybe the number of cases will significantly decline when it gets warm.

I'm certainly having 2nd thoughts about my summer job entertaining vacationers at this point.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Roadblock time on the NH Mass border?.

I’m ok with that as long as MA can put roadblocks to stop NH people from coming in to work or use our hospital facilities🤨


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[WinnisquamZ]

Stopped by HD in Tilton this afternoon, parking lot was full. Less then half of the people wearing masks, that includes employees! It appears the gig is up. Weather is looking better and the revolution has begun.


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[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Stopped by HD in Tilton this afternoon, parking lot was full. Less then half of the people wearing masks, that includes employees! It appears the gig is up. Weather is looking better and the revolution has begun.


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A legion of idiots spreading random disease & death lotto tickets into the community. "Live Free and Die"?

I assert my right to be deadly irresponsible cus "FREEDOM"?

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

A legion of idiots spreading random disease & death lotto tickets into the community. "Live Free and Die"?

I assert my right to be deadly irresponsible cus "FREEDOM"?

Your ignorance is on display for all to read. Your assumption is they are sick. What if they are not and tested as much? What if the others are at low risk. What if those at high risk are protecting themselves and understand the others have a constitutional right to go about their day as they wish.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Your ignorance is on display for all to read. Your assumption is they are sick. What if they are not and tested as much? What if the others are at low risk. What if those at high risk are protecting themselves and understand the others have a constitutional right to go about their day as they wish.


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It's amazing how some people can watch the same movie again and again, and still expect a different ending. Low risk people expressed their constitutional rights magnificently at Mardi Gras, Florida Spring Break, and Liberty University.

Maybe next time Darth won't be Luke's father...

[jeffatsquam]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Your ignorance is on display for all to read. Your assumption is they are sick. What if they are not and tested as much? What if the others are at low risk. What if those at high risk are protecting themselves and understand the others have a constitutional right to go about their day as they wish.


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My assumption is that less than 1% of your full parking lot at HD in Tilton have tested negative. I know of no one that has had a test. But I don't get out much lately

[WinnisquamZ]

Neither do I. Or know of someone that has been sick. I do know many that have lost their job or have had hours cut. Those that are still collecting a weekly paycheck seem to want to continue this isolation. Some have started to refer to this event as a “white collar” isolation. It’s the blue collar workers that are risking sickness and health keeping them feed. Terrible


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[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Your ignorance is on display for all to read. Your assumption is they are sick. What if they are not and tested as much? What if the others are at low risk. What if those at high risk are protecting themselves and understand the others have a constitutional right to go about their day as they wish.


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Me thinks the ignorance is all yours.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

Me thinks the ignorance is all yours.

Check the message on the sign held by the flag festooned guy in the center of the photo.

"Give me liberty, or give me covid-19."

Actually, it should read "Give me liberty AND give me covid-19."

Liberty helps to cause it; sheltering helps to prevent it.

Just sayin.'

[Flylady]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Neither do I. Or know of someone that has been sick. I do know many that have lost their job or have had hours cut. Those that are still collecting a weekly paycheck seem to want to continue this isolation. Some have started to refer to this event as a “white collar” isolation. It’s the blue collar workers that are risking sickness and health keeping them feed. Terrible


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You may not today, but without appropriate precautions, you most likely will know several within the coming month. The biggest risks to the population are those who do not take it seriously.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Flylady

You may not today, but without appropriate precautions, you most likely will know several within the coming month. The biggest risks to the population are those who do not take it seriously.

The biggest risk to the population has passed. Curves have began to flatten for a week. Time to begin repairing the damage


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

The biggest risk to the population has passed. Curves have began to flatten for a week. Time to begin repairing the damage.

Dr. Knut Wittkowski agrees:

https://youtu.be/lGC5sGdz4kg

Note within a few minutes, he states, "I don't receive government checks".

[Chris M]

I find it sad how many people so strongly advocate safety over freedom.

I get it, folks are scared, and many people look to government like a toddler looks to a parent.

But I have news for you... the state didn't come into existence to keep us safe - it came into existence to keep us free.

You don't get to use every scary situation to use the apparatus to club the rest of us and expect us all to perpetually grin and bear it. Enough is enough.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

The biggest risk to the population has passed. Curves have began to flatten for a week. Time to begin repairing the damage


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Just curious where did you get that bit of fake news? CDC...I do not think so. The worst is most likely yet to come.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

The biggest risk to the population has passed. Curves have began to flatten for a week. Time to begin repairing the damage

New high in the number of US deaths yesterday. Risk is still plentiful. Moreover, MA the new "hotspot" in the US. It would belie credulity to think this summer will not be super risky.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Chris M

I find it sad how many people so strongly advocate safety over freedom.

I get it, folks are scared, and many people look to government like a toddler looks to a parent.

But I have news for you... the state didn't come into existence to keep us safe - it came into existence to keep us free.

You don't get to use every scary situation to use the apparatus to club the rest of us and expect us all to perpetually grin and bear it. Enough is enough.

Safety vs freedom is a false choice--it is not either/or--in a complex public health crisis we should look to the government to do both. So far, our local Governors Sununu and Baker seem to be doing a good job with the balance.

[Mr. V]

Only a fool walks into a buzzsaw, just as only a fool refuses to comply with such common sense actions as social distancing in order to protect themselves and others from a clear and present danger.

I'm sure the gov't wouldn't need to shut down the economy if people would all voluntarily adopt social distancing, but such a unified response would never happen voluntarily: alas, "We've met the enemy, and it is us."

It takes a stern captain to pilot a ship of fools through treacherous shoals.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Safety vs freedom is a false choice--it is not either/or--in a complex public health crisis we should look to the government to do both. So far, our local Governors Sununu and Baker seem to be doing a good job with the balance.

Safety and freedom can coexist. These anti-Constitution, strongarm tactics imposed by out of control politicians (and carried out by police) have no basis in "safety" whatsoever. Just ask this poor mother:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronav...ian-city-hall/

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

These anti-Constitution, strongarm tactics imposed by out of control politicians (and carried out by police) have no basis in "safety" whatsoever. Just ask this poor mother:

Baloney.

She's a scofflaw, throw the book at her.

[Roy_Hobbs]

Against all of my better judgement I’m actually going to comment, knowing full well it won’t change anyone’s mind. Regarding that article posted above, (excerpt below) I hope those who use the “this wouldn’t have been an issue if they would have just listened to the police” argument do so consistently. It would not surprise me if some people (and this is NOT directed at you Seaplane Pilot, I don’t pretend to know enough about you to make this statement) use that argument in other situations but not in this case.

From the article: “Police said they made several attempts to get Brady to follow the rules and she refused to comply.”

Regardless, Here’s to the warm summer days to come, regardless of when, where or to what degree we are able to enjoy them!


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[Chris M]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Liberty helps to cause it; sheltering helps to prevent it.

Liberty is freedom of choice. Like my body, my choice. Free to choose sheltering in place. Freedom to choose isn't the enemy.

The enemy is nominds like you who don't respect freedom of choice.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Chris M

Liberty is freedom of choice. Like my body, my choice. Free to choose sheltering in place. Freedom to choose isn't the enemy.

The enemy is nominds like you who don't respect freedom of choice.

Your response is pretty harsh. How about disagreeing without being disagreeable? Cutting down on snarky comments would be a move in the right direction.

[Susie Cougar]

I just read that the Sandwich Fair has been canceled for 2020! This is not until Columbus weekend in October!

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I just read that the Sandwich Fair has been canceled for 2020! This is not until Columbus weekend in October!

ridiculous, and this is getting way out of hand. It is now an excuse maker which has been a concern for a while.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Chris M

Liberty is freedom of choice. Like my body, my choice. Free to choose sheltering in place. Freedom to choose isn't the enemy. The enemy is nominds like you who don't respect freedom of choice.

In a way the current situation is similar to times when our great nation was on a wartime footing: think WWII, for example.

The gov't enacted many draconian laws which severely impacted ones liberty interests, and it was deemed appropriate by the courts and the general public due to the perceived consequences of not adopting such harsh laws.

We interred Japanese nationals and seized their property (didn't do it to German nationalss though; gee, I wonder why not?).

More to the point we adopted very strict rationing: the law said no matter how much money you had, no matter what your need, this is all you got.

Many people felt that the rationing laws shouldn't and didn't apply to them, and they turned to the black market, which undermined the national effort.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I just read that the Sandwich Fair has been canceled for 2020! This is not until Columbus weekend in October!

Concerns about the coronavirus pandemic have led organizers to cancel this year’s Stratham, Lancaster, Sandwich and Cheshire fairs.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/hea...lock_id=664693

[4 for Boating]

Seems like we are starting to find out that people were infected weeks before the alarm went off and the first hospital trigger. The latest estimates (Reported by NBC New York yesterday) for New York who is doing antibody testing now is that the death rate may be closer to .5. (Yes, worse than the flu - but one can only hope the number is closer to .5 than what has been reported in the past)

Going to be a lot of looking back on this down the road regarding what the best steps should have been. A lot easier to do after the fact we all know that.

One thing that jumps out to me is the sad aspect around nursing homes and how disproportionally they have been hit with the most susceptible population. One quarter of the deaths in NY have been at such institutions. Very, very sad.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Your response is pretty harsh. How about disagreeing without being disagreeable? Cutting down on snarky comments would be a move in the right direction.

I think some people don’t understand that their freedom of choice ends where it starts to effect others freedom to live safely. Kind of like someone choosing to drive down the road at 100 mph.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

Seems like we are starting to find out that people were infected weeks before the alarm went off and the first hospital trigger. The latest estimates (Reported by NBC New York yesterday) for New York who is doing antibody testing now is that the death rate may be closer to .5. (Yes, worse than the flu - but one can only hope the number is closer to .5 than what has been reported in the past)

Going to be a lot of looking back on this down the road regarding what the best steps should have been. A lot easier to do after the fact we all know that.

One thing that jumps out to me is the sad aspect around nursing homes and how disproportionally they have been hit with the most susceptible population. One quarter of the deaths in NY have been at such institutions. Very, very sad.

Today's Globe reported 49 people dead of covid in a single nursing home a couple of miles from my house. Their website gives total capacity as 135 beds. It's just horrific.

[ApS]

California doctors pressured to list deaths as COVID-19:

https://youtu.be/D5GDPCUUBEE

[Major]

From a dentist friend of mine -

More people are going to suffer the longer this shutdown is enforced than from the disease itself. Never in the history of this country have we quarantined healthy people. A big part of my job is about infection control and the longer we are quarantined the worse our immune systems are going to get and more people are going to get critically ill from this disease. What Fauci and the WHO are doing is going against most of what I was taught in dental school. We cannot stay quarantined until a vaccine, that could take years.


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[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by Major

From a dentist friend of mine -

More people are going to suffer the longer this shutdown is enforced than from the disease itself. Never in the history of this country have we quarantined healthy people. A big part of my job is about infection control and the longer we are quarantined the worse our immune systems are going to get and more people are going to get critically ill from this disease. What Fauci and the WHO are doing is going against most of what I was taught in dental school. We cannot stay quarantined until a vaccine, that could take years.


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Why would our immune systems get worse? That makes no sense whatsoever. You are right about one thing tough...people are going get critically ill if we reopen carelessly.

Also I would find a new dentist.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

From a dentist friend of mine -

More people are going to suffer the longer this shutdown is enforced than from the disease itself. Never in the history of this country have we quarantined healthy people. A big part of my job is about infection control and the longer we are quarantined the worse our immune systems are going to get and more people are going to get critically ill from this disease. What Fauci and the WHO are doing is going against most of what I was taught in dental school. We cannot stay quarantined until a vaccine, that could take years.


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It always cracks me up when we rely upon "experts" in the wrong field--like dentists who are also immunologists/epidemiologists.

One of my crowns fell out a few weeks ago. When I called my dentist, she said she was not allowed to use a drill because the drilling aerosolizes liquid in the mouth, creating micro particles that are especially difficult to keep contained--they hang in the air. You might ask your dentist about that

[Major]

He’s a very smart guy who I trust implicitly, more than a career hack like Dr Fauci.

True story, I had a Navy dentist friend who reattached an amputated arm on a destroyer. He was the only doctor on board so he had to do it. Never underestimate the medical training of a dentist.

Fauci was the one telling us early on that the Chinese Coronavirus was not a big deal. Come to think about it, he was right! #overblown


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[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Major

Never in the history of this country have we quarantined healthy people.

Major, you portray yourself as a conservative who welcomes debate.

How do you feel about fact checking?

Your "dentist friend" should stick to filling cavities and not trying to revise American history: he and you are flat WRONG to claim as you have above.

We HAVE quarantined healthy people: we did it in 1918 to help combat the influenza pandemic sweeping the world at that time.

see: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/a...antine/609163/

Now I realize facts have a habit of getting the way of closely held beliefs, but for those who use their brains as a filter they can be illuminating.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

It always cracks me up when we rely upon "experts" in the wrong field--like dentists who are also immunologists/epidemiologists.

One of my crowns fell out a few weeks ago. When I called my dentist, she said she was not allowed to use a drill because the drilling aerosolizes liquid in the mouth, creating micro particles that are especially difficult to keep contained--they hang in the air. You might ask your dentist about that

I lost part of a tooth about three weeks ago, and my dentist (different from my friend dentist) drilled (smoothed our the surface) before applying a temporary patch.


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[Biggd]

It's too bad that this whole thread has been infected by a virus.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Major

He’s a very smart guy who I trust implicitly, more than a career hack like Dr Fauci.

True story, I had a Navy dentist friend who reattached an amputated arm on a destroyer. He was the only doctor on board so he had to do it. Never underestimate the medical training of a dentist.

Fauci was the one telling us early on that the Chinese Coronavirus was not a big deal. Come to think about it, he was right! #overblown


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Oh my! That’s amazing! I never knew that destroyers had arms! 🙄

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

He’s a very smart guy who I trust implicitly, more than a career hack like Dr Fauci.


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You trust your dentist who's not even your actual dentist more than Dr Fauci? I hope you never need a doctor.

Fauci has made gigantic contributions to medicine having nothing to do with his also extraordinary career in management. For those with an interest in real science and real medicine, here's his bio:

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/anthony-s-fauci-md-bio

[Major]

I don’t trust government bureaucrat hacks whose best interest is to promote their own agendas. Where were you when the esteemed doctor said there is nothing to worry about? And yes, I trust this dentist implicitly.


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[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Oh my! That’s amazing! I never knew that destroyers had arms! 🙄

If you spend a millisecond thinking about what you just responded to you realize how not humorous it is..

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Bigstan

If you spend a millisecond thinking about what you just responded to you realize how not humorous it is..

Big Stan, you need to lighten up, lad! We are all very stressed right now. I would NEVER make a joke about a person’s infirmity, but Major’s sentence structure (did the destroyer really have an amputated arm?) made my husband and me laugh hysterically. I think that most people would take my comment in the proper vein. Please relax.

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Big Stan, you need to lighten up, lad! We are all very stressed right now. I would NEVER make a joke about a person’s infirmity, but Major’s sentence structure (did the destroyer really have an amputated arm?) made my husband and me laugh hysterically. I think that most people would take my comment in the proper vein. Please relax.

I'm not stressed at all actually, I still fail to see the reason for all the hoopla these days, and yes I know that puts me in the minority.

It's just that I actually took the post as it was very obviously intended, as in he was on a destroyer while this occurred. If you don't know Destroyers don't get real doctors, they get pharmacist mates and maybe a visiting dentist now and again. All have cross training, and cover as needed. And if someone loses a limb or is otherwise wounded everyone jumps in, in this case I imagine to stabilize and get a couple major arteries flowing so said limb can be saved by more competent folks.

Sorry if you think that's a joke and I don't, different paths in life I guess.

[Barney Bear]

Destroyers are well-armed. They even carry depth charges.

[thinkxingu]

Back to the OP: this is a pretty good summary of where we are and need to go. The assertion is that we need to move forward getting back to "normal," but the next year (at least) will need to be smart and driven by data: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertp...navirus-facts/

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[Major]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Major, you portray yourself as a conservative who welcomes debate.

How do you feel about fact checking?

Your "dentist friend" should stick to filling cavities and not trying to revise American history: he and you are flat WRONG to claim as you have above.

We HAVE quarantined healthy people: we did it in 1918 to help combat the influenza pandemic sweeping the world at that time.

see: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/a...antine/609163/

Now I realize facts have a habit of getting the way of closely held beliefs, but for those who use their brains as a filter they can be illuminating.

I should modify the statement to be in my lifetime. I am not sure what was done in 1918. Honestly, I haven't read much about it. However, since then, we have had very serious epidemics like small pox, polio, MERS, H1N1, etc., and have never shut down the economy. I don't feel too bad if you have to go back to 1918 for an example. If we quarantined healthy people back then, I stand corrected.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Back to the OP: this is a pretty good summary of where we are and need to go. The assertion is that we need to move forward getting back to "normal," but the next year (at least) will need to be smart and driven by data: https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertp...navirus-facts/

The author wishes the US to return to full strength slowly.

He's also published in Forbes, which is Chinese majority-owned.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-28380634

[Lakegeezer]

A major problem with opening things up now is the need to respect the medical staff. Without a supply of proper protection equipment and proven ways to treat the staff that get infected, they are acting as heroes. People on the front lines have repeatedly asked that people avoid getting sick so that they can minimize their personal risk. To open up now is to treat these heroes with disrespect. How can you ask someone to risk their life because you assumed the virus wouldn't hit you hard, so mingled with crowds and caught it bad. Could you blame the staff if they all called in sick during a non-essential driven surge of severe cases?

Once protective equipment is readily available (any day now?) and catching this novel virus has lower risks (many trials in progress), opening up and letting herd immunity build is a viable strategy, especially for those that don't come in contact with people at risk. People are still going to die from this virus, but we can't continue to ask the medical staff to be among them without sharing the pain.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

A major problem with opening things up now is the need to respect the medical staff. Without a supply of proper protection equipment and proven ways to treat the staff that get infected, they are acting as heroes. People on the front lines have repeatedly asked that people avoid getting sick so that they can minimize their personal risk. To open up now is to treat these heroes with disrespect. How can you ask someone to risk their life because you assumed the virus wouldn't hit you hard, so mingled with crowds and caught it bad. Could you blame the staff if they all called in sick during a non-essential driven surge of severe cases?

Once protective equipment is readily available (any day now?) and catching this novel virus has lower risks (many trials in progress), opening up and letting herd immunity build is a viable strategy, especially for those that don't come in contact with people at risk. People are still going to die from this virus, but we can't continue to ask the medical staff to be among them without sharing the pain.

Lakegeezer, you make some very valid points, and you made them without any political asides....thank you for that. I wish we had the perfect answer: protecting the medical personnel involved in this pandemic, treating the victims of this sometimes-devastating illness, and doing all this while protecting the most vulnerable in our society....all this while keeping most of the workplace in force! What an unbelievable goal! There’s no perfect solution, or so it seems. I share the views many of us have....that we can get a grip on what needs to be done....testing, social distancing, quarantine when indicated, and an eventual vaccine. Please, please, please let people get back to their lives and livelihoods soon before the damage is irreparable. Last thing: we are all responsible for our personal well-being, so those who are most vulnerable need to take extra precautions.
Sorry, my index finger wouldn’t let me stop writing this. Be forgiving.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

A major problem with opening things up now is the need to respect the medical staff. Without a supply of proper protection equipment and proven ways to treat the staff that get infected, they are acting as heroes. People on the front lines have repeatedly asked that people avoid getting sick so that they can minimize their personal risk. To open up now is to treat these heroes with disrespect. How can you ask someone to risk their life because you assumed the virus wouldn't hit you hard, so mingled with crowds and caught it bad. Could you blame the staff if they all called in sick during a non-essential driven surge of severe cases?

Once protective equipment is readily available (any day now?) and catching this novel virus has lower risks (many trials in progress), opening up and letting herd immunity build is a viable strategy, especially for those that don't come in contact with people at risk. People are still going to die from this virus, but we can't continue to ask the medical staff to be among them without sharing the pain.

Totally agree with you with one caution. Herd immunity only works if the antibodies formed after infection actually do protect against reinfection. And if they do protect, how long will they protect.....three weeks, three years, forever?? And the same answers, among others, need to be answered before any vaccine is used for everyone.

No one really yet knows the answer and it is vital information as we move forward.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

Totally agree with you with one caution. Herd immunity only works if the antibodies formed after infection actually do protect against reinfection. And if they do protect, how long will they protect.....three weeks, three years, forever?? And the same answers, among others, need to be answered before any vaccine is used for everyone.

No one really yet knows the answer and it is vital information as we move forward.

Dr, if it doesn't aren't we in big trouble? I know the efficacy of the flu vaccine is limited due to not knowing strains. Would this be opposite or will CV-19 morph?

[Mr. V]

[Not to Worry]

Good read about Sweden.



"The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 21 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europ...ntl/index.html

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Some very good points in here

After listening to some pretty harsh comments & arguing over reopening or completely shutting down for another two weeks, someone in their right mind wrote this.

Don’t know who wrote it, but it’s spot on.

Perspective:

WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME BOAT ...
I heard that we are all in the same boat, but it's not like that. We are in the same storm, but not in the same boat. Your ship could be shipwrecked and mine might not be. Or vice versa.

For some, quarantine is optimal. A moment of reflection, of re-connection, easy in flip flops, with a cocktail or coffee. For others, this is a desperate financial & family crisis.

For some that live alone they're facing endless loneliness. While for others it is peace, rest & time with their mother, father, sons & daughters.

With the $600 weekly increase in unemployment some are bringing in more money to their households than they were working. Others are working more hours for less money due to pay cuts or loss in sales.

Some families of 4 just received $3400 from the stimulus while other families of 4 saw $0.

Some were concerned about getting a certain candy for Easter while others were concerned if there would be enough bread, milk and eggs for the weekend.

Some want to go back to work because they don't qualify for unemployment and are running out of money. Others want to kill those who break the quarantine.

Some are home spending 2-3 hours/day helping their child with online schooling while others are spending 2-3 hours/day to educate their children on top of a 10-12 hour workday.

Some have experienced the near death of the virus, some have already lost someone from it and some are not sure if their loved ones are going to make it. Others don't believe this is a big deal.

Some have faith in God and expect miracles during this 2020. Others say the worst is yet to come.

So, friends, we are not in the same boat. We are going through a time when our perceptions and needs are completely different.

Each of us will emerge, in our own way, from this storm. It is very important to see beyond what is seen at first glance. Not just looking, actually seeing.

We are all on different ships during this storm experiencing a very different journey.

Realize that and be kind.

Unknown author

[WinnisquamZ]

I believe this year in NH we are going to have one hell of a Forth of July celebration!
Let’s all take a few minutes and listen to a great President tell us how we must fight to survive

https://youtu.be/3_QSJyJaeD4


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[ApS]

Korean study showed "re-infection" indicators were caused by fragments of Wuhan coronavirus.

https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20200429007051320

[Trail Goer]

Originally Posted by Major

I don’t trust government bureaucrat hacks whose best interest is to promote their own agendas. Where were you when the esteemed doctor said there is nothing to worry about? And yes, I trust this dentist implicitly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What's his agenda? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Trail Goer

What's his agenda? Inquiring minds would like to know.

His agenda is to make sure as few people die from this as possible. Shame on him!

[Not to Worry]

Hoping by the time the second wave comes along we have some form of treatment.

"By the end of the coronavirus’s “first wave” this summer, America will likely have buried close to 100,000 victims of the disease, with as many as 9 million people having become infected, according to Alessandro Vespignani, the director of the Network Science Institute at Northeastern University. The elite research lab, which has gained international notice for its pandemic modeling, also concluded that at least 80,000 to 90,000 Americans will be dead of coronavirus complications by mid-May. "

https://news.yahoo.com/top-coronavir...232144312.html

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

His agenda is to make sure as few people die from this as possible. Shame on him!

If you mean Dr. Fauci, he backed the controversial Wuhan lab with millions of US dollars to conduct risky coronavirus research.

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-ba...search-1500741

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ApS

If you mean Dr. Fauci, he backed the controversial Wuhan lab with millions of US dollars to conduct risky coronavirus research.

https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-ba...search-1500741

With all the searches you do your screen must light up every morning with conservative propaganda.

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by Biggd

With all the searches you do your screen must light up every morning with conservative propaganda.

I"m basicly conservative by nature, not afraid to admit it. But that last post made me laugh. This whole thread has gotten insane.
.

[Glendale Deli Boy]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

I"m basicly conservative by nature, not afraid to admit it. But that last post made me laugh. This whole thread has gotten insane.
.

Agree. Me thinks there are many Pizzagate believers on this board.

[gravy boat]

From Union Leader and NHBR:


CONCORD — Requiring hairstylists and their customers to wear masks, quarantining clothes after they’re tried on and maintaining existing precautions are expected in the plan Gov. Chris Sununu will present Friday to reopen the state’s businesses in stages while extending the stay-at-home order.
Sununu reviewed guidelines for reopening a broad range of businesses, including restaurants, retail stores, state parks, golf courses, campgrounds and hair salons as he put the finishing touches on the “flex open” plan.
With the changes, Sununu is expected to extend the stay-at-home order set to expire May 4.
The Governor’s Reopening Task Force late Thursday completed more than 12 hours of drafting, discussing and adopting proposals for specific industries.
They also adopted universal guidelines for all New Hampshire employers and employees to prevent the spread of COVID-19.
Businesses will be urged to let employees continue to work from home as much as practical, to screen them before they enter the workplace and to have them wear face coverings “while at work and in public.”
D.J. Bettencourt, Sununu’s policy director, said Friday’s announcement will not include a date for reopening Seacoast and state park beaches.
“This is going to be the subject of long-term discussion,” he said.
“Inevitably whatever we do, we will not make 100% of the folks in our state happy, but what we are trying to do is strike the right balance so our citizens are healthy and safe and we are getting our economy moving again,” Bettencourt said.
State Rep. Jeff Salloway, D-Lee, said the task force’s next job will be to create standards to react quickly to a resurgence of the virus.
“We are dealing with wave one of this outbreak,” Salloway said. “There is likely to be a wave two and we face the possibility next fall of a wave three. ”
Haircuts head to top
During two hours of public comment Thursday, licensed cosmetologists dominated the discussion. Most urged Sununu to go beyond the task force’s recommendation to restrict salons to haircuts and routine dying of hair roots.
Janelle Burris, who runs Janelle’s Modern Beauty Salon in Concord, said 75% of her business is custom hair and other treatments such as waxing.
“I feel like those restrictions are only going to benefit big corporate places like Supercuts. It makes me afraid small businesses like myself won’t be able to open back up,” Burris said.
But a commenter named Jenny, who runs a salon out of the bottom floor of her home, said she is worried about opening now.
“I don’t feel salons have to be part of phase one. I have tried to get sanitation materials and not had much success,” Jenny said.
Under the task force’s recommendation, waxing, nail work and tanning would not be permitted.
“It is better we start small and let’s see how it works. We felt like this was a good place to start,” said state Sen. Sharon Carson, R-Londonderry, who led the group working on that sector.
Salon seating would be limited to maintain social distancing, and both the hairstylist and the customer must wear face coverings.
Greg Stone urged Sununu to reopen as much of the economy as possible and balance public health with business health.
“You seem to say nothing is as important as saving lives,” Stone said, addressing the governor with his remarks. “I believe saving our residents and businesses’ economic lives are paramount. I believe they are entwined.
“If our economy is not open very soon, we will face economic and employment challenges the likes of which we have not seen.”
Restaurants and hotels
The guidelines call for restaurants to expand from delivery and curbside pickup in four steps.
The first phase would allow sit-down dining on existing patios, sidewalks or parking spaces close to the business where it can be done safely. Tables of up to six patrons would be permitted.
The second phase would allow inside dining of groups up to 10 people at tables at least six feet apart.
Customers in bars would be spaced at least six feet apart. Catering would be open for parties up to 50 with tables of 10.
At the time of the second phase, hotels could open to the public. Pools and exercise gyms in hotels would be closed, and no congregating would be allowed in the lobby.
The third phase would permit restaurant dining of larger groups. Hotel pools and gyms could reopen with enhanced cleaning, and groups of up to 10 would be allowed in lobbies.
The fourth phase would bring hotel and restaurant practices near to normal with enhanced cleaning and training for staff still in place.
Retail trade
Curbside and delivery of products would remain an option and would be encouraged for “vulnerable populations” reluctant to enter a store to shop.
Owners would be encouraged to set aside special hours for at-risk people to shop.
Reopened stores will have one-way aisles “if possible” and customers would stay six feet apart at the checkout.
All clothing tried on by customers would be put in quarantine for 48 hours before being returned to the sales floor.
Cashiers must wear masks, and plastic dividers would be installed between cashiers and the public where feasible.
State parks and beaches
The Flume in Franconia Notch would be fully open first for online advance ticketing only, with groups of up to six at one time.
Food and beverage sales would be limited to grab-and-go and outdoor seating.
Initially, inland beaches at state parks would be open only for campers, with day users allowed later, said Parks Director Phil Bryce.
Each beach’s capacity would be determined and enforced to ensure social distancing, he said.
State park officials are studying a second, future option at ocean beaches to allow “restricted sitting” on the sand but Bryce said it’s a work in progress.
“We are looking at specific locations or how to figure out reserve spots on the beach so umbrellas aren’t touching each other. There is a lot of details to see whether this is possible,” Bryce said.
“The Seacoast is so complex and it is such an at risk environment that we want to be careful to make sure phase one goes well before moving on.”
Campgrounds
The recommendations call for restrooms to be used by one person at a time.
Private campgrounds could open up rest rooms to wider use if social distancing were possible.
Campers could not have visitors.
Task force members persuaded Bryce to permit shower and laundry services at campgrounds as long as sanitation meets state and federal regulations.
Tent use could be at 50% of campground capacity.
Rep. Ed Butler, D-Hart’s Location, said he supported it.
“I think the issue of having a phase in which we open to a lesser extent is a reassurance for our general population that we are taking steps in the right direction but not open up quickly to everything,” Butler said.
Bryce had proposed RV sites have one open space between them, but the task force changed that to allow all RV spots to be occupied as long as campers practice social distancing.
Sen. Robert Giuda, R-Warren, lobbied for getting rid of having to space RV’s.
“I can be in an RV three feet away from another and I am still six feet away from everybody with two walls in between. The virus doesn’t go through walls,” Giuda said.
“This type of broad brush rule I find counterproductive to getting businesses and reopened and profitable again.”
Golf courses
During the first phase, tee times would be 12 minutes apart to maintain social distancing.
Golfers would bring their own equipment. Clubhouses and locker rooms would be closed except for golfers to use the restroom.
A beer cart could make sales along the course as long as the staffer wore personal protection.
The flag at each hole would be altered so hitting the stick would complete scoring and golfers wouldn’t have to reach into the cup.
In the second phase, pro shops would reopen.
A “halfway house” could open at the midpoint of the course to allow limited food and drink to be picked up, but seating or service would not be available.
The flags would be placed into the hole as normal in this phase, and tee times would be reduced to 10 minutes apart.
Golf instruction and some youth golf activity could open with social distancing.
The third phase would remove many of the restrictions, but in all phases, players would remain in their cars until 15 minutes before teeing off.
The clubhouse could open for groups of not more than 10 and tee times would be eight minutes apart.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Please see response #93 above.

Testing and vaccines will be a part of our foreseeable lives but when and how are almost 7,000,000,000 people going to be tested or inoculated?

Advanced? No, they have lots of money and can buy technology and people.

Consider that a vaccine may never be developed for this man-made virus.

Originally Posted by Glendale Deli Boy

Agree. Me thinks there are many Pizzagate believers on this board.

"Debunked", banned outright, or "shadow-banned" by social media, the 4chan hunt ended at a large and troubling bronze statue in their living room. (Too troubling to post a link here).

That above sentence contains more than enough key words for a Google search. Explain the origin of the statue and why Pizzagate remains "debunked".

Astonishingly, the statue is still pictured on the Internet.

[TiltonBB]

From the state: "While indoor dining will continue to be prohibited, starting May 18, restaurants will be allowed to open outdoor dining, with tables 6 feet apart and guests limited to six per table."

I like Chris Sununu but have to wonder if 7 or 8 people sat at a table, what is the difference?

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...d2c493c82.html

[map]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

From the state: "While indoor dining will continue to be prohibited, starting May 18, restaurants will be allowed to open outdoor dining, with tables 6 feet apart and guests limited to six per table."

I like Chris Sununu but have to wonder if 7 or 8 people sat at a table, what is the difference?

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...d2c493c82.html

Exactly what I have been saying!

[gravy boat]

Was listening to the police scanner yesterday for a bit and a Gilford PD officer reported a group of 10-15 Audis gathered in the Gilford Cinema parking lot. Obviously a club out for a drive and stopped here to either take a break or determine the route to take.

Apparently some "were not practicing safe distancing" so the police officer pulled in, talked to them and gave them a warning. Really?

Agree or disagree, I personally find that a monumental waste of a police officer's time.

I wonder if that is now the primary directive for police in NH -- "at all costs, stop people from gathering."

GB

[Susie Cougar]

Florida is starting to reopen in phases. Today, restaurants are allowed to have 50% outdoor seating and 25% indoor seating.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

From the state: "While indoor dining will continue to be prohibited, starting May 18, restaurants will be allowed to open outdoor dining, with tables 6 feet apart and guests limited to six per table."

I like Chris Sununu but have to wonder if 7 or 8 people sat at a table, what is the difference?

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...d2c493c82.html

There will be a limit of 6 per table--learned this last night while getting take from El Mariachi in Moultonboro. It was excellent!

Also from El Mariachi--they have gated off a section of their parking lot and added picnic tables. You can eat your to-go dinner right there. As of May 18, there will be table service. They are applying for an outdoor liquor license.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

My roommate from college currently lives in Beijing, I wouldn't really say they are returning to normal. Here is a video from about two weeks ago after being in quarantine for two months. He and his wife are still staying in. This isn't over for a long time....

https://youtu.be/AJfi1T8F4BM

Notice the MASK that he is wearing. Not a simple painters mask that we have here. That mask has a filter built into mask.

Funny. But sad. The brand name is 3M. A US company.

He can get a 3M filter in mask. We can't.

3M is a USA company the last I read. And we can't get those 3M masks with inhale filter ???

[gravy boat]

Quick observations on mask and gloves:

We've noticed that there are plenty of people wearing masks with it pulled below their noses - including folks checking you out at most of the local stores.

Also, we see plenty of people wearing gloves -- and touching everything. We watched a man at the Post Office in Lakeport a few days ago (with mask and gloves). While inside the PO his gloves touched the door handle both coming and leaving, his wallet, credit card, credit card processor...and when he entered his car his contaminated gloves touched his door handle, the steering wheel, his keys, his phone and his mask before he removed his gloves. Then he touched his steering wheel and phone without gloves. We had to laugh.

Why bother?

GB

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

We had to laugh.

It's no laughing matter: all of our lives are potentially at risk.

Sad that you think watching people flounder while trying to protect themselves and others is funny.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

While inside the PO his gloves touched the door handle both coming and leaving, his wallet, credit card, credit card processor...and when he entered his car his contaminated gloves touched his door handle?

Well. Long before COVID-19 I viewed local grocery store deli counter.
There, they are supposed to put on new gloves for each customer.
A few do. But most leave the same gloves on for a long time - defeating the whole purpose of gloves.

One lady at the local grocery store - she put on new gloves for a deli order.
BUT
She observed a discarded glove on counter. Picked up the used discarded glove and threw the used discarded glove into wastebasket. THEN proceeded to do my order.
Her gloves, although new, were then contaminated by touching the discarded gloves.

Who is in charge of hygiene at the local grocery store ?
Do the folks at these grocery stores receive hygiene food safety training?
And does anyone actually observe them?

[codeman671]

We were on the lake both days this weekend. I couldn't believe the number of people out on land. We hit immediate traffic at route 11 and noted it was backed up all the way to Johnsons from the circle.

Tons of bikers at the circle store, and Alton bay was packed as well. It looked like bike week out there!

From a business opening standpoint we have been selling packages to small businesses with face shields and surgical masks and have had tons of orders since Thursday. Its good to see so many taking this seriously.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Dr, if it doesn't aren't we in big trouble? I know the efficacy of the flu vaccine is limited due to not knowing strains. Would this be opposite or will CV-19 morph?

The highly-touted Oxford vaccine is expected this Autumn. It will NOT replace the regular flu vaccine.

https://news.yahoo.com/oxford-scient...172827584.html..

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Dr, if it doesn't aren't we in big trouble? I know the efficacy of the flu vaccine is limited due to not knowing strains. Would this be opposite or will CV-19 morph?

Sorry, I did not answer sooner.

Yes, if any Covid-19 virus vaccine does not work we are in trouble. The good news is; even though coronaviruses, including the one we are dealing with, do mutate, this is usually not a problem.Emphasize usually. Flu viruses also mutate but the problems with the flu viruses are that the protective vaccine immune reaction only lasts roughly six months. Also there are multiple different flu viruses and the vaccine companies have to “guess” which ones to make each year.

There is too much we do NOT know about Covid-19. It is more likely to recur in the fall than not, but nobody really knows

It is also unlikely a Covid vaccine will be ready for the fall. But one can hope.

[Not to Worry]

I guess there is no winning. We cannot stay closed until we have a vaccine but the death toll looks like it will continue to climb if we do not.

"A key model of the coronavirus pandemic favored by the White House nearly doubled its prediction Monday for how many people will die from the virus in the U.S. by August – primarily because states are reopening too soon.

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington’s School of Medicine is now projecting 134,000 coronavirus-related fatalities, up from a previous prediction of 72,000. Factoring in the scientists’ margin of error, the new prediction ranges from 95,000 to 243,000."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...navirus-234377

[Not to Worry]

Given all the protests I was thinking most were in a rush to reopen. Guess not.

"Americans clearly oppose the reopening of restaurants, retail stores and other businesses, even as governors begin to lift restrictions that have kept the economy locked down in an effort to combat the coronavirus pandemic, according to a Washington Post-University of Maryland poll.
The opposition expressed by sizable majorities of Americans reflects other cautions and concerns revealed in the survey, including continuing fears among most people that they could become infected by the coronavirus, as well as a belief that the worst of the medical crisis is not yet over."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a5f_story.html

[Newbiesaukee]

A somewhat worrying addendum to the above.

A new story in the LA Times discussing some new information about the mutating virus which may be a problem.

https://apple.news/APYLRcU6BTgKHfFbdTbWscw

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

Consider that a vaccine may never be developed for this man-made virus.

If a man or woman made the virus, then another can make a vaccine.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Quick observations on mask and gloves:

We've noticed that there are plenty of people wearing masks with it pulled below their noses - including folks checking you out at most of the local stores.

Also, we see plenty of people wearing gloves -- and touching everything. We watched a man at the Post Office in Lakeport a few days ago (with mask and gloves). While inside the PO his gloves touched the door handle both coming and leaving, his wallet, credit card, credit card processor...and when he entered his car his contaminated gloves touched his door handle, the steering wheel, his keys, his phone and his mask before he removed his gloves. Then he touched his steering wheel and phone without gloves. We had to laugh.

Why bother?

GB

But if you don't get the meaning of this post- you are part of the problem (and a danger to yourself and family!).

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

It's no laughing matter: all of our lives are potentially at risk.

Sad that you think watching people flounder while trying to protect themselves and others is funny.

He wasn't floundering by any means. He was simply doing what he was told would protect him and others -- except they (meaning the Governor and local and national media) failed to include what NOT to do every time they drove home "wear and mask and gloves." THAT was what we were laughing about -- how people still don't know what NOT to do.

[Pineedles]

It’s not Ebola folks. If you feel unsafe stay home.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by ApS

California doctors pressured to list deaths as COVID-19:

https://youtu.be/D5GDPCUUBEE

Note: YouTube sensors yanked this video tidbit. Gone.

Or maybe the authors took it down. Who knows.

[Seaplane Pilot]

A friend sent this to me earlier today. If this doesn’t make you question what’s going on, then we’re all doomed.

https://americanconsequences.com/the...&ICID=ref_fark

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Notice the MASK that he is wearing. Not a simple painters mask that we have here. That mask has a filter built into mask. Funny. But sad. The brand name is 3M. A US company. He can get a 3M filter in mask. We can't. 3M is a USA company the last I read. And we can't get those 3M masks with inhale filter ???

Peter Navarro explained last week:

"The third kill and China’s own customs data, Neil, show this -- we saw while they were hiding the virus from the world, they went out and vacuumed up all the PPE around the world, two billion masks they bought alone. And they took it from countries in Europe, South America, the United States.

And so when the people, the nurses, the brave nurses and doctors on the frontlines in New York or Chicago or Detroit or New Orleans needed PPE, part of the reason they didn’t have it is because of that third kill.
The Chinese had basically vacuumed that up.

And now, the fourth kill is that they’re hoarding that and using that PPE as a weapon in their soft power to project it and to profiteer. I mean, we’re seeing, Neil, these are 30, 40-cent masks, 50-cent masks at retail usually, and they’re selling them, they’re coming to the hospitals here for $7 and $8.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...rding_ppe.html

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Given all the protests I was thinking most were in a rush to reopen. Guess not.

"Americans clearly oppose the reopening of restaurants, retail stores and other businesses, even as governors begin to lift restrictions that have kept the economy locked down in an effort to combat the coronavirus pandemic, according to a Washington Post-University of Maryland poll.
The opposition expressed by sizable majorities of Americans reflects other cautions and concerns revealed in the survey, including continuing fears among most people that they could become infected by the coronavirus, as well as a belief that the worst of the medical crisis is not yet over."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a5f_story.html

Part of the problem is defining re-opening. I believe that most of us that talk about re-opening believe that we need to ease thoughtfully.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

If a man or woman made the virus, then another can make a vaccine.

Maybe.

Among human-to-human transmissible diseases, Ebola and HIV still have no vaccines.

Poking around some serious UK studies, I found this quote:

"It is near-impossible to predict future trajectories for the virulence and transmissibility of horizontally transmitted pathogens. It is also possible that the population of SARS-CoV-2 will evolve into different lineages characterised by variable levels of virulence and transmissibility".

On scanning the credits, one study was found titled, "Looking for Darwin in All the Wrong Places".

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

A friend sent this to me earlier today. If this doesn’t make you question what’s going on, then we’re all doomed.

https://americanconsequences.com/the...&ICID=ref_fark

"we rate American Consequences Right Biased based on story selection that favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting based on minimal use of sources to support opinions."

LINK

[Not to Worry]

I guess we cannot stay closed forever so I understand the need to reopen. Still I wonder how many of us will die as a result of this decision. Both choices are fraught with disaster. Thank you China for being open, transparent hand helping the world avoid this. NOT!

"As nearly half of U.S. states begin to ease restrictions that were put in place to slow the spread of the coronavirus, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is quietly projecting a stark rise in the number of new cases of the virus and deaths from it over the next month.

Modeling from the CDC, incorporated into a chart prepared by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and circulated within the administration, was obtained by the New York Times. It projects 200,000 new daily cases of the coronavirus by the end of May and 3,000 daily deaths in the U.S. At present, approximately 25,000 new cases are reported each day, with roughly 1,750 deaths."

https://news.yahoo.com/as-states-pus...182250157.html

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

"we rate American Consequences Right Biased based on story selection that favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting based on minimal use of sources to support opinions."

LINK

So what? Doesn't make it incorrect. And who checks Media Bias Fact Check for bias? Someone has to watch the watchers.

I'm sure somewhere in the mix even CNN has an accurate story posted, you can't discount everything you don't like.