Why standing up for the Constitution is important

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

No offense here but I am so tired of hearing about the "poor" as a reason to do something that is fundamentally stupid such as allowing voting with zero proof of who you are and are eligible to vote. If everyone is SO concerned with the integrity of elections this is a sure way to minimize fraud.

Let's see the numbers showing a significant number of people with no photo ID. Bet it's minuscule.

Furthermore just as an example a non-driver's license photo ID from the state of NH costs a whopping 10 bucks. There is no way I would ever be convinced that somebody is so darn poor they can't afford a $10.00 ID.

11% nationwide (I think I win our bet). And never mind the 10 bucks--over 600K people in Texas do not even have the paperwork that would be required to get one.

It's really easy for comfortable people to forget how difficult life is on the bottom of the ladder. Stuff that we take for granted--driver's licenses, IDs, credit cards, bank accounts, etc are shockingly tough for millions in the US (Google hispanics without bank accounts)

But you did not answer my question--where are the cases of voter fraud?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...972_story.html

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

11% nationwide (I think I win our bet). And never mind the 10 bucks--over 600K people in Texas do not even have the paperwork that would be required to get one.

So if they cannot provide the paperwork necessary to get an ID which proves my point - what says you are a legal voter? The law states you must be a citizen to vote. It is not ambiguous. Neither should be proving it. No proof no ID, no ID, no vote. Simple as that.

Current population of TX 28.30 million. +/-600K can't figure out how to get an ID. Screw 'em if 28,299,400 residents can well I'd say that's close enough and yes in this case 600K is minuscule.

I'm betting there are PLENTY of poor people represented in that 28 million.

This has nothing to do with a person's financial situation, or the other typical excuses race and gender.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

So if they cannot provide the paperwork necessary to get an ID which proves my point - what says you are a legal voter? The law states you must be a citizen to vote. It is not ambiguous. Neither should be proving it. No proof no ID, no ID, no vote. Simple as that.

Current population of TX 28.30 million. +/-600K can't figure out how to get an ID. Screw 'em if 28,299,400 residents can well I'd say that's close enough and yes in this case 600K is minuscule.

I'm betting there are PLENTY of poor people represented in that 28 million.

This has nothing to do with a person's financial situation, or the other typical excuses race and gender.

Nice deflection!

But 11% is not "minuscule", and we're still waiting for your examples of voter fraud...

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Still waiting for your examples of voter fraud...

LOL kinda hard to prove fraud when you can't prove identity or track who and where a person voted now isn't it?

Of course that's the whole point. You're not interested in whether or not those that are eligible to vote do so and ensure one vote per person is cast.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

LOL kinda hard to prove fraud when you can't prove identity or track who and where a person voted now isn't it?

Of course that's the whole point. You're not interested in whether or not those that are eligible to vote do so and ensure one vote per person is cast.

No, it should not be hard if it exists in any sort of significant way. Interestingly, the panel that the President appointed to look into this had the same problem. To the President's credit--once he saw there was really nothing there, he disbanded the panel. (Similar to him catching up when he realized covid was actually dangerous)

Also, please do not opine on what I am interested in or not--I have not accused you of wanting to suppress votes, you should not accuse me of being indifferent to stuffing the ballot box.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/u...ommission.html

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

No, it should not be hard if it exists in any sort of significant way. Interestingly, the panel that the President appointed to look into this had the same problem. To the President's credit--once he saw there was really nothing there, he disbanded the panel. (Similar to him catching up when he realized covid was actually dangerous)

Also, please do not opine on what I am interested in or not--I have not accused you of wanting to suppress votes, you should not accuse me of being indifferent to stuffing the ballot box.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/u...ommission.html

It's impossible to PROVE fraud when the very means to determine it are not available. Similar to proving somebody has COVID 19 without actually testing them to confirm it even though they may show all the symptoms.

By requiring an ID there is no suppression of voting, get an ID you're good to go, fail to do so and you can't. That is not suppression, it's simply putting a simple requirement to ensure the law is being followed.

By taking the position of not requiring an ID would infer the consequences of doing so are acceptable.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Nice deflection!
.......we're still waiting for your examples of voter fraud...

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Orion

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud

Please quote reliable and unbiased news sources. Sourcing the likes of The Heritage Foundation and OANN, which are right of Brietbart and Sean Hannity would be like quoting NYT or the Guardian on the left. Both have an agenda to spin. Dare I say, a lot of Fake News. Quote the facts of a more moderate and fact-based news organization. Someone earlier mentioned the WSJ..even NPR. Damn, even Fox News is more moderate that these organizations.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I guess we process posts on this forum differently.

My post stayed in your memory for seven years!

Your posts leave my brain in less that seven minutes.

Slo-Joe commiserates.

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

Please quote reliable and unbiased news sources. Sourcing the likes of The Heritage Foundation and OANN, which are right of Brietbart and Sean Hannity would be like quoting NYT or the Guardian on the left. Both have an agenda to spin. Dare I say, a lot of Fake News. Quote the facts of a more moderate and fact-based news organization. Someone earlier mentioned the WSJ..even NPR. Damn, even Fox News is more moderate that these organizations.

How about the US Supreme Court?

https://youtu.be/sz4UBWbD4P8

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by ApS

Slo-Joe commiserates.

How about the US Supreme Court?

https://youtu.be/sz4UBWbD4P8

I’m not sure I understand your point. The Supreme Court didn’t do a study on voter fraud nor did they confirm its existence. What they did was to uphold a law, which exists in the State of Arizona, among others. As previously mentioned, each states voter laws are different and the Supreme Court upholding a law that gives the states rights to enforce their own laws has nothing to do with proving that something is a rampant problem


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[ApS]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

I’m not sure I understand your point. The Supreme Court didn’t do a study on voter fraud nor did they confirm its existence. What they did was to uphold a law, which exists in the State of Arizona, among others. As previously mentioned, each states voter laws are different and the Supreme Court upholding a law that gives the states rights to enforce their own laws has nothing to do with proving that something is a rampant problem

Arizona eliminated rampant ballot-harvesting, and inserted the much narrower "family" type collecting. Still, the SCOTUS had to pass judgment.

California, which borders Arizona, doesn't think voter-fraud is a problem.

Has there ever been a "close" election that went "R"?

Wisconsin "finds" ballots after the election:
https://conservativemedia.com/news/w...arys-campaign/

[Newbiesaukee]

2000 presidential election. Close election went R.

[Seaplane Pilot]

This speaks volumes on the importance of upholding the Constitution. The Attorney General has started to take notice of violations, especially toward religious groups.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Nice deflection!

But 11% is not "minuscule", and we're still waiting for your examples of voter fraud...

Here are just a few of those examples you were looking for:


Court filings by the Texas Attorney General reveal that funding for a voter fraud ring came from the former head of the Texas Democratic Party in Fort Worth.

Leticia Sanchez and three other vote “harvesters” have been indicted for allegedly submitting fraudulent absentee ballot applications and then either intercepting the ballots in mailboxes or improperly “assisting” elderly voters in filling out their ballots.

Separately, the Texas attorney general has announced he’s investigating mailers sent to non-citizens by the state Democratic Party asking them to register using applications that already had the box asking about citizenship checked ‘Yes.’”

As the Secretary of State told radio host Erick Erickson, there are 75,000 pending voters among a record total of 7 million registered in the state of Georgia. Of these, 9,224 are minors under 18; 2,935 used a fake address; 3,393 are not citizens, and 5,842 were already registered.fake address.

Of the remaining applications, 75 percent submitted erroneous Social Security information. Almost a quarter of those “sloppy forms” came from a registration effort by the New Georgia Project, a group founded in 2014 by Stacey Abrams, the Democratic nominee for governor.

California was recently forced to admit that it had mistakenly registered almost 25,000 ineligible voters. The state didn’t even realize it was registering noncitizens until a Canadian who is a permanent resident of the U.S. contacted The Los Angeles Times to say he had been improperly registered under the state’s new automatic voter registration system.

Michigan lacks a system to keep false citizenship claims from being accepted during voter registration. The group’s preliminary study of the Detroit metro area found at least 1,444 non-citizens have been registered to vote in recent years.

A 2012 report by the Pew Center on the States found that more than 1.8 million dead people were registered to vote and 2.75 million people were registered in more than one state.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

11% nationwide (I think I win our bet). And never mind the 10 bucks--over 600K people in Texas do not even have the paperwork that would be required to get one.

It's really easy for comfortable people to forget how difficult life is on the bottom of the ladder. Stuff that we take for granted--driver's licenses, IDs, credit cards, bank accounts, etc are shockingly tough for millions in the US (Google hispanics without bank accounts)

But you did not answer my question--where are the cases of voter fraud?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...972_story.html

I am not going to apologize for being one of the “comfortable people” as this issue has nothing to do with being poor. Any U.S. citizen should be able to obtain a driver’s license or photo ID and be able to vote. If someone is here illegally, that individual should not be allowed to vote....period!