Some OPine 'n How To Make Laconia Better - Lose The Prison

[rhogan]

I have often wondered what is happing to the United States as a country in terms of people coming form other countries. My inquiry into this question began when I returned to the United States from overseas and went to New Hampshire to visit friends. I had been exposed to many different cultures while overseas, some nice other and most did not like Americans in general because of the war and other misgoverning. In stopping in various towns in New Hampshire to visit with friends, it became apparent to me through reading the newspapers, walking around various towns, hearing from my friends and business people that, in the last 15 years, violent crime has gone up, more housing, more traffic and less of a feeling of home town USA and more to a view point of becoming an isolationist.

I will not discuss every town, but as a few examples. Laconia,NH. 20 years ago a jewel on the Nile or Lake Winnipesauke if you will. Other small lakes like Paugus Bay, Opechee, Winnisquam. This was a place where you went and felt safe. You could leave your car unlocked, let you kids play with the neighbors kids with not having to worry about their safety and leave your home unlocked if you so choose. Today Laconia and its surrounding area could be viewed as a place when you would not really consider the above mentioned. It has changed, for the worse. Laconia has a prison, for sex offenders and other convicted criminals. Once a school for the mental retarded, the city failed miserably to stave off the A$$H*!&$, in the concord legislature and the moronic governor at the time, and take the land that is vast, and developed it into something that would benefit the town. Such as a college, get the Volvo tennis back to NH or some other tennis association to build a world class tennis camp and have a sponsored event like Wimbledon does where all the pros come to play. Develop it with other events in mind. However, in true political action, they opted for a prison. A prison that could have been built in Berlin NH where a federal prison was already going in, and I reject anyone saying, you cannot have a state and federal prison in the same area, which is what some said or they said you cannot use federal funds. Folks, wake up, this is politics, something could have been worked out, Berlin wanted it ,give it to them. I have news for all the Laconia folks, you can still fight it, the governor and legislature has the power to move it. Of course the prison guards and the corrections department will want to fight it; they want to continue to expand their power, but not in Laconia. Get it out now or else it will grow and continue to have people escape; how many is Laconia up to now since it was brought in? Folks in Laconia, what will it take? Some offenders escaping running into a home and raping or killing someone to get you folks to renew the fight? The corrections folks will try to tell you, don’t worry we will request more funding and all will be well, some more razor wire and all will ok! WRONG! Talk about ancillary actions from having the prison. Who do think comes to visit these people, who follows them and stays in Laconia? Has a study been done to see how much crime has gone up with the prison their? I know, numbers can be manipulated, but it just rubs me to see this great land used by a prison!

Welfare, yes I know I will be kicked for this one, but Laconia has always been known by the locals as welfare haven. People come to town from out of the area and from afar and by some Immaculate Conception get benefits. I am for it if they need it, but not to abuse it and Laconia gets abused. This applies to the entire United States. If Bush wants my vote, then his promise of every citizen who needs a jobs will have one WOOPS, that is every person who wants, yes wants, so how many welfare people want to get off the great benefits?? I am sure some do, but some do not. Why not require work for benefits if able to do so?


Another, issue that has been creeping into this town ( Laconia )and many others like Manchester NH, Nashua NH, Portland ME and many towns across the United States is the church. Yes I know I will suffer god’s wrath if I spill the beans on the biggest secret in the United States. Many political candidates don’t want to discuss this for fear of circumcising their political careers and the church keeps a low profile. The church, every year through its various affiliations brings people from various ethnic backgrounds in the United Sates and supplants them in various cities. Now, in NH cases more then 5000, yes that five with three zeros, have been supplanted. Why do I speak of this? Because we are in the land of the free! Many of these people then in turn try to get their relatives to come in live and so on and so on. SO WHAT? In an age with terrorism, increase times of a hard economy, less jobs (don’t let the employment number fool you folks, every year around summer time these number go up because of college grads), more crime from these supplanted people, you do the math. The church can be held responsible for more then a quarter of a million foreign people with questionable backgrounds coming to the United States. Stay with me on this. Does the church subject these people to a full field background check with references, a psychological test to verify they will be able to “ hack it” in a different culture and be good people, do they give a polygraph to verify their history? I will bet they do nothing close to this. So, let me play the other side. Hey. Lets invite them all in, so what if they have a terrorist connection, so what if they might be a rapist, murderer, criminal, so what if they are psychological derange and will commit a crime, so what if their friends or relatives, who might also be bad people, eventually come over? Thanks to the church, we salute you.

In the aforementioned, this really falls under our boarder control, the same boarder control that to this day, I could come from Canada, and with very little planning, a map quest map, some limited supplies, walk across the Canada boarder or Mexico boarder for that matter with not even seeing anyone and gain entry. The church needs to work out a program with the United States boarder patrol to institute the background checks, psychological test and polygraph to verify these people. With regards to boarder control, get a clue, use the military to supplement the boarder patrol who are out manned by many people crossing our boarders. The politicians need to institute a rigorous penalty for those who are caught. Lets face it, if Mexico was so great, they would not be coming here, enough said.


After coming back not only to the United States but to a hometown USA and now “ Inside Looking Out “, I have to say it’s not good. I do not claim any Indian heritage that puts me on this land before anyone else. I do not claim any pedigree. I am not a racist, bigot, or isolationist. What I am is a United States born citizen who is concerned that the United States is failing in its boarder policies and its ability to control politicians, welfare entitlements and prisons systems. The people of these small towns need to fight for their rights and what is right for the town. I would like to have a positive outlook for Laconia, but SNAFU’s like the Laconia prison, welfare issues and the church, the example set by Laconia and to what is happing too many small towns USA should be the wake up call of a lifetime.

[LillithFaewen]

Wow Rhogan, great post. Call me silly but I was really unaware that the church actually "supplanted" people here. I'm not sure how I feel about them bringing people here, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly about the prison being here. I really don't think it should be. Your right about questioning the people who are coming to visit these people, and also what about when they get out of jail and they plant it right here in Laconia to "start anew". Most of them had nothing when they went into prison, and will have nothing when they come out. So therefore they stay right here in this town and pull God knows what afterwards. Furthermore from what i've heard the "House of Corrections" is a joke. They should punish these people! They should make them clean, landscape, and do things for the community that they've probably violated. Sometimes our justice system in the US troubles me.

I remember coming up here at first 12 years ago, crime was a foreign word. In the past 5 or 6 years the Lakes Region (especially Laconia) has become a melting pot for various religions, races, cultures. We've seen an increase in African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, Middle Easterns. And i've also noticed the crime rate escalate along with them moving here. BUT, reading through the papers, and doing research, i've noticed the vast majority of the crimes (robberies, drug trafficking, assaults) are still commited by your typical white male who is and has been a resident of the area for a while. Honestly I do not believe our new comers are not as responsible as some think they are.

[meredith necker]

I don't understand the poll. Are you asking for peoples opinion about what? What is wrong with the prison? Where else are we going to put it. Why do we have to pay to have another prison built. Actually, which prison?

[Old Chris Craft]

Churches have been bringing foreigners into the USA for decades for no apparent reason other than making themselves feel good. I'm sure it gives the flock a warm feeling knowing that they helped a family in need from another country but I do not believe much thought is given beyond that. Usually these families are brought here, provided with housing and given jobs to support themselves (hopefully). Is this really fair? What about the qualified resident of the town who may have been applying for the same job but was rejected because the employer felt pressured to hire the sponsored foreigner? Companies will bend over backwards to teach a non-English speaking person to work for them but won't spend 1/10th the time on anyone else. It may sound isolationist but if the USA has so many people unemployed, especially in high-tech, why should we purposely seek out a foreign family and give the jobs to them? Think about it before raking me over the coals.

The prison in Laconia has baffled me as well. What a waste of prime real estate, so what's next, a city landfill on Governors Island? The trend over the years seems to be toward removing those things that made Laconia a nice place and replacing them with things that do not. Living in the Weirs has given us a front row seat to such action. For the past 10 years most of the new development we've seen is new vendor space for bike week. If the bikers stop coming, the entire area will collapse since they've placed all their eggs in one basket. I'm glad to see some new life being pumped into the Dexter Plaza that's not linked to bike week. Bravo to Rusty Bertholet! The place is looking nice! Thank you.

[Pepper]

I'm somewhat confused with the questions listed - please, could you rephrase them so the intent is more clear? The questions are somewhat nebulous, and I'd love to cast a vote on this issue, but would like clarification on them. Anyone else confused?

[ITD]

Rhogan hits local,state,federal governments, small town populations and the church, not much left after that. He has some points on illegal immigration, not sure I agree on his view of legal immigration. Most of us wouldn't be here if it were not for legal immigration. (My grandparents immigrated). Prisons are tough, if he's right about Berlin wanting the prison then they should have gotten it IMO. Crime going way up in the last 15 years, I haven't tracked it, is this a perception or can he reference some stats?

I do agree with his statement that people need to fight for their towns and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he means become involved not start an armed revolt. The best way to get involved is to vote. I hope everyone who voiced an opinion here votes at ALL elections and town meetings. I hope Rhogan voted via absentee ballot while he was away. People don't realize how much power we have in this country. We (citizens) can kick out activist judges who legislate from the bench (via impeachment on the ballot). We can kick out politicians via elections. Unfortunately the majority of eligible americans don't vote.

We also have huge power over corporations, oil companies for instance, if most of us decided not to drive their car one day a week the oil companies and OPEC would choke on their oil. Outsourcing, if we all made an effort to buy American goods and reject goods made in other countries, companies would think twice before outsourcing. If you call your long distance or computer company and hear a foreign accent on the phone, switch companies. I can imagine the arguments against what I just said, global economy, why make buggy whips in the automobile age, you can't get american goods anymore. Just a small vocal effort would make a big impact. Hit them where it hurts, their bottom line.

So stay involved in your government, if you are not involved get involved. Make the politicians pay when they don't do the will of the people. Don't wish for bigger government, fight for a leaner more efficient less wastefull government. Things will start to change.

Finally, off subject, I'm a little dismayed at the direction this board has taken with language. Profanity, even when disguised with dollar signs or abbreviated as a posters name was on another thread is just not necessary and detracts from the great image this board has. Let's keep it clean people and not make the Webmaster clean it up for us.

[madrasahs]

I feel Rhogan's pain....

I, too, left the US for a long time. I was in a country that turned from a near-3rd-world country to a modern European state. The reverse happened to the U.S.! Who was minding the store while I was gone?

"PC" and the Immigration Reform Act of 1986 seem to apply equally. (There's your 15+ years, incidentally). While the churches will protest "We don't bring them here", they will acknowledge that "We support them when they get here". I don't see a difference.

I can't speak to Laconia's prison, nor do I understand the poll questions.

Somehow, Laconia should have attracted that growing community of retired RV'ers with their million-dollar+ "coaches" that were featured in U.S. News magazine last month.

[jrc]

Check out this site:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

I didn't do an exhaustive analysis, but it seems obvious that most crime nationwide has dropped since 1995. Drug crime is up and down, but pretty much everything else consistantly down.

They only give city specific data for cities over 100,000, so in NH only Manchester. It does seem that in the last 3-4 years some crime has increased there. I hope it's not a statewide trend.

[rhogan]

The poll should have been: Should we keep the Prison Or Should we get it out.

Its great that we live in a free country and can express our views.!

I appreciate everyone who posted. The fact is we can still get rid of the prison, it would take the local and state reps getting emails and our reps in DC. They have the power , the money. Berlin has the space, they wanted it when it was first started.

It is not to late, so I have posted the emails of those who should get their act together and start a movement, to move the prison outta here!!

planning@city.laconia.nh.us

Mayor Mark Fraser citycouncil@city.laconia.nh.us

http://www.state.nh.us/ A place to email the Billionaire Governor who might give a hoot about the prison

GlennDewhirst@hotmail.com

james.fitzgerald@leg.state.nh.us

Thomas E P. Rice Belknap
PO Box 1006 District:
Laconia, NH 03247-1006

http://sununu.senate.gov/
http://www.senate.gov/~gregg/

[Bear Guy]

I did a little more research into crime statistics than jrc, so that we might base our discussions on fact rather than anecdotal evidence or unsubstantiated opinions. Here are data in graphical form from 1960 to 2000 for the state of NH.

NH crime data from http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nhcrime.htm

Note in the right-hand graph, population is the steadily increasing trend. It is interesting that when adjusted for population growth, the incidence of crime decreases for the 90's decade.

Laconia NH crime data from http://www.laconiapd.org/stats.html

Note that Laconia data does not include an adjustment for population. Data only covers 1998 to 2003; the Lakes Region DOC Facility opened in 1991. (sorry for the screwy Excel x-labeling.)

[ITD]

Nice graphs, looks like the late 70's early 80's were some wild times. I quickly tried to find historical population data but only found the data in the below link.

Laconia still looks mostly white to me, 96.79% (15,855) of the total 16,411 in the 2000 census. There is 90 black, 120 asian, 162 hispanic,68 american indian and alaskan native, and a few others.

Crime looks like it has increased a little, but judging from the statewide trends its still probably a lot better than it was in the late 70's.

What does this all mean? I don't know.

If I were to just look at the stats and didn't know better I would say that every resident was visited by the police at least once in a year, 4000 of them committed criminal offenses and 2000 of them were arrested. Looking at the original data from the link it looks like traffic stops went way up in 2003 from 4700 in 2002 to 7100 in 2003 better be careful when driving in Laconia.


http://laconia.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

[meredith necker]

I am sorry to see such passionate rhetoric here in the Winnipesaukee Forum. To me the web site is great because of the interesting things about the lake, I get my politics elsewhere. If that prison wasn't there probably all that nice open land would, one way or another, be turned into "housing developments" and condos. Let's try to be happy and positive.

[jrc]

The sun is out and I'm not out on the lake. Maybe that's why I couldn't resist a little arguing. Once the boat is out of storage, things will change.

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by Bear Guy

"I did a little more research into crime statistics than jrc, so that we might base our discussions on fact rather than anecdotal evidence or unsubstantiated opinions."

You've got to wonder about "fact". Anecdotal evidence/opinion that is fresh in our collective memory can be useful, as the statistical data cited is old.

How is it that New Hampshire is reported as 48th among the States in most major crimes, but is 9th among the States in Rape -- go figure. (I mean, really go figure).

Last summer, the Union Leader stated that "New Hampshire was slow or neglectful" in reporting major crimes to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

New Hampshire's latest rape/murder victim frequented the "Hog's Trough Saloon", wore "Goth" apparel, and the only witnesses frequented the "Spider's Bite" tattoo parlor.

My read? The prison is just a symptom of the disease.

[rhogan]

What is up with this? I really have to wounder looking at the police logs over the last couple of years, and my previous post on the prison, what is going on? I know there was crime in the 60's 70's 80's,90's-- But it seems unusual that the depth of crime in Laconia continues.
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LACONIA — Police are investigating an apparent attempted abduction on Saturday night.

Sgt. Steven Clarke said police received a call around 10 p.m. Saturday of a fight at the intersection of High Street and Union Avenue involving six people.

"Two black males attempted to pull a white female into their vehicle and two male bystanders intervened," Sgt. Clarke said.

The vehicle was described as a light, possibly tan or gray, sedan bearing New Hampshire registration including letters similar to "SHAY."

Sgt. Clarke said the vehicle was operated by a male wearing a red T-shirt and possibly named Steve and occupied by another male. Both had short dreadlocks hair.

S. Sonthikoummane one of the men who intervened received a laceration to his right hand as a result of being stabbed with a broken beer bottle, police reported.

Responding to the incident in addition to Sgt. Clarke were Officers Liza Ross and Meredith Napier.

Anyone who may have information regarding this incident is asked to call the police department at 524-5252 or the Crimeline at 524-1717.