Ragged island overnight

[SAB1]

Sorry xcr but I’ll differ on opinion. Been on that lake over 50 years and what we see now is unthought of back 20 years ago. Not saying it will be rampant but it would happen for sure. Wasn’t singling our day trippers just used that for example.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Sorry xcr but IÂ’ll differ on opinion. Been on that lake over 50 years and what we see now is unthought of back 20 years ago. Not saying it will be rampant but it would happen for sure. WasnÂ’t singling our day trippers just used that for example.

Ok by me, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I have mine and they differ. No worries here.

As for what we see now (a changed lake from 20+ years ago), I agree! I think were we part company is what we see and why.

What I see is a lake full of "new boaters" that dont follow any rules, and boaters of any vintage that are rude, obnoxious, and grossly unsafe, and I believe most of them own homes on the lake or keep their boats in a marina on the lake. I constantly see them taking off from their docks or marinas like wannabe NASCAR drivers, with boats full of people, not adhering to the most basic safety standards.

At this point I will no longer boat on Winnipesaukee on Saturdays, and even Sundays are becoming a problem.

Rarely do I see anyone with large boats (that you might be capable of sleeping on, or people interested in doing so) launching from trailers. Its just too hard to trailer the size boats we see on Winnipesaukee and there are just too few places to launch from and park a truck and trailer and do so for a price a working family can afford on a regular basis. As for trailer boaters, I mostly see families trailering their modest size boats and then taking them home at the end of the day. Not dudes looking to party hard and find a place to drop anchor when they are on the verge of passing out.

You may be seeing something different.

Clearly the lake has evolved, some of it not to my liking, but it is still a place that I cherish.

And I recognize people have different preferences;

I thoroughly enjoy a whiff of 2-cycle oil from an old outboard staring up first thing in the morning and the sound of a thru-hull exhaust on an old jet boat, but I have no use to hear anyone's music blasting across the lake.

You may have a very different set of likes and dislikes, and that ok, so long as we both respect each others reasonable boundaries.

What I worry about is restrictive rules/laws based on fear mongering and/or the few instances of serious problems. I mostly shrug off the obnoxious idiots, I guess I assume they will eventually move on to the next thing that allows them to show off.

But I dont live there every day, so again, you may be seeing something different and more of it.

ATB

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Rarely do I see anyone with large boats (that you might be capable of sleeping on, or people interested in doing so) launching from trailers.

Perhaps the reason you don’t see large boats being trailered is because they can’t anchor overnight. If the rule changes then the frequency of large boats being trailered may change.

[SAB1]

XCR- Totally agree with your thoughts on response. Now consider this:

"What I see is a lake full of "new boaters" that dont follow any rules, and boaters of any vintage that are rude, obnoxious, and grossly unsafe, and I believe most of them own homes on the lake or keep their boats in a marina on the lake. I constantly see them taking off from their docks or marinas like wannabe NASCAR drivers, with boats full of people, not adhering to the most basic safety standards"

With some number of boats each weekend say 100 anchored for a weekend overnight...

Anyways, it not legal so I guess a moot point.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Anyways, it not legal so I guess a moot point.

And not likely to change.

I lose no sleep over it, just dont agree it was ever a significant problem or ever would be.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Perhaps the reason you don’t see large boats being trailered is because they can’t anchor overnight. If the rule changes then the frequency of large boats being trailered may change.

No capacity exists to bring them in at the moment if you wanted them.

You would need to add ramps and a lot of parking and at reasonable prices.

And we know thats not happening!

Sadly the lake is not accessible to a lot of people, and that is just the way it will stay.

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

No capacity exists to bring them in at the moment if you wanted them.

You would need to add ramps and a lot of parking and at reasonable prices.

Have you visited West Alton Marina lately? They have a lot of construction underway including new fuel docks.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Have you visited West Alton Marina lately? They have a lot of construction underway including new fuel docks.

Thats where I launch from the last few years, and now its $40.00 for what should be free.

Not saying they are not entitled to whatever they can get for the use of their land and facilities, but the state and towns around the lake are grossly negligent in providing open access and parking.

Its an inexcusable travesty likely brought on by all my Massachusetts neighbors who have bought second homes on the lake over the last 30 years and want to keep others away, when in reality they are often the most obnoxious people on the lake.

Trust me I know my neighbors, the term Massholes fits most of us from MA perfectly. PERFECTLY

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Thats where I launch from the last few years, and now its $40.00 for what should be free.

I heard that the commercial Alton ramps doubled their prices the day Downings Landing closed.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

I heard that the commercial Alton ramps doubled their prices the day Downings Landing closed.

Honestly I cant blame them, they are in business to make a profit in an industry where you work hard.

Its the towns and state that I am not happy with.

But we are now veering way of topic on this thread, and I'm sure this has all been debated before until the forums web-server is near full.

The past is the past and the future is controlled by the wealthy and the voices of change who I feel certain have their own best interest at heart

[Rinkerguy]

There still are a few free or inexpensive launch sites on the lake.
Alton is still free, but nowhere to park a trailer except for Letter S Road.

West Alton is expanding again, new gas docks and another set of docks going in.
Pretty soon they will be as big as Mountain View.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Honestly I cant blame them, they are in business to make a profit in an industry where you work hard.

Its the towns and state that I am not happy with.

What am I missing here? You said the marinas should be OK to make a living, but in an earlier post you thought launching at WAM should be free. You apparently don't pay taxes here (Andover, MA?) but you seem to trailer here and then you're upset with the state and the towns?

There's not much open land available suitable for building a launch ramp and parking lot. Let's say $2,000,000 for a small town like Alton to acquire land and build a ramp, parking area, public bathrooms etc. so you an drive up here and use it for free? And you're surprised the local voters won't support your wishes? They don't have that kind of money.
The state does do some development e.g. Downings. There is a Public Water Access Advisory Board (volunteers, mostly) who work with Fish and Game to locate, develop and maintain water access points all over the state. You're welcome to use them. Here's the map: https://wildlife.state.nh.us/maps/boatfish/index.html

It appears there is water access in Harold Parker State Forest, in Andover Massachusetts, and I think it is free. "Free" in this case means the government pays for it. LOL.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

What am I missing here? You said the marinas should be OK to make a living, but in an earlier post you thought launching at WAM should be free. You apparently don't pay taxes here (Andover, MA?) but you seem to trailer here and then you're upset with the state and the towns?

There's not much open land available suitable for building a launch ramp and parking lot. Let's say $2,000,000 for a small town like Alton to acquire land and build a ramp, parking area, public bathrooms etc. so you an drive up here and use it for free? And you're surprised the local voters won't support your wishes? They don't have that kind of money.
The state does do some development e.g. Downings. There is a Public Water Access Advisory Board (volunteers, mostly) who work with Fish and Game to locate, develop and maintain water access points all over the state. You're welcome to use them. Here's the map: https://wildlife.state.nh.us/maps/boatfish/index.html

It appears there is water access in Harold Parker State Forest, in Andover Massachusetts, and I think it is free. "Free" in this case means the government pays for it. LOL.

Maybe my english is not good, YES marinas should be able to charge what they want to use their ramps and park on their grounds and use their facilities!

That in no way should let the state and towns off the hook to provide no cost robust access and parking and facilities! Seems to me you even have state laws requiring the state to provide access.

The two situations are NOT mutually exclusive.

As for taxes, no I do not pay NH taxes, but I do register my boat in NH (which costs more than MA at last I checked) as I feel I should be paying for the resources I use. I also buy all my gas in NH (boat and truck) when we boat there, and we spend prolifically in NH to support NH businesses as opposed to buying on the internet and not patronizing local business.

As for the cost of ramps to local towns, thats what our registration is suppose to cover! Not pay for the Governor to go overseas on so called business trips or attend Governors conventions or other nonsense.

Fact is, the ramps were there, towns and the state simply failed to use their revenue to fund the required improvements and/or relocate them when there was a need, and in some cases blocked non-residents from using them.

You want the registration fees, and NH business want all the revenue day boaters and vacationers spend, but you turn your nose up at us like you bought the lake with your house. Sorry you didn't and you wouldn't have most of the amenities you have today if it were not for the day boaters and vacationers.

And the same goes for snowmobiling. The revenue generated for NH by these two activities is quite substantial and helps the residents enjoy much better amenities than they would ever have if not for the money coming from out of state.

Or maybe you would prefer all the taxes you pay in Massachusetts only to have places like Harold Parker where you cannot boat OR own land on the water. Well that would certainly resolve your anchoring and sleeping on the lake problem!

And again, we are way off topic on this thread. Sorry rant over, just had to get it out of my system. Let the daggers fly. I've said enough on this one,,,

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

That in no way should let the state and towns off the hook to provide no cost robust access and parking and facilities!

Perhaps you meant *publicly funded* robust access.

Originally Posted by XCR-700

As for the cost of ramps to local towns, thats what our registration is suppose to cover!

Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, aren’t they?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Perhaps you meant *publicly funded* robust access.

Nope I meant FREE. Publicly funded means something different to me. I pay a registration to use NH waters, and my fees should be enough for others who dont need to register (kayakers, row boats and others) to use the facilities for free.

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, aren’t they?

Yes, and with snowmobile registration those funds are redistributed back to local snowmobile clubs to maintain the trails. If the state is not sending some of the registration fees back to the local communities, then they should be raising hell over it.

Truthfully I'm not sure who maintains public boat ramps in NH, but you can make a solid argument that both the state and local communities benefit from the visitors coming to use these facilities so they should both play a role in making them as robust as possible.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by DBreskin

Registration fees are paid to the state, not the town, aren’t they?

Boat registration fees go all over the place, If you register at a local marina or town hall, that town gets the tax portion of the total. If you mail it in to Concord or pay at MPHQ, the state keeps the whole thing. Out of that, some goes to F & G for Search and Rescue, some goes to the Navigation Safety Fund (MP), some goes to Aquatic Invasive Species control. The list goes on.
Yes, we have many non-resident registrations. They benefit from the above, as well as not paying sales tax in their resident state.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

Boat registration fees go all over the place, If you register at a local marina or town hall, that town gets the tax portion of the total. If you mail it in to Concord or pay at MPHQ, the state keeps the whole thing. Out of that, some goes to F & G for Search and Rescue, some goes to the Navigation Safety Fund (MP), some goes to Aquatic Invasive Species control. The list goes on.
Yes, we have many non-resident registrations. They benefit from the above, as well as not paying sales tax in their resident state.

And I guess that would make those of us who paid sales tax in our own state idiots,,,

Oh well I'm sure that wont be the last mistake I'll make in my life.

[LIforrelaxin]

Well isn't this thread going all kinds of wonderful places.....

So the OP stayed overnight on or buy Ragged Island... Was anyone Hurt? Did he leave a mess or pollution behind? Did he cause any damage to anything on the island?

I understand full well who owns the island, at that part of their rules are that there isn't supposed to be overnight stays, with out approval. But come on, I don't see anything in the rules, that stops me from taking a ride out their at midnight, and walking around the island with a flashlight... (other then the fact that I am generally asleep these days by 10:30)

I love this lake, but what it is becoming is very upsetting. It is a great asset to the state, and local economies, but it appears that all the State, Towns, and residents want to do is push people away so that their shangrala is a private club.

Why can't people anchor overnight if the boat is capable of supporting such activity? Especially if they do it in an area where they are not disturbing residents... On the southwest side of Ragged is a perfect example of that. Why don't the towns want to produce revenue with some transient docking, and allowing people transient slips that they can be in from say 10 P.M. to 8 A.M. so as to not inter fear with the day use of the docks. Why doesn't a group like LRCT, support the use of their land for enjoyment? They do a wonderful job of preserving it..... But come one, put a couple of tentsite in on Ragged Island, that people can use... I am sure they could find a retired member that would be willing to summer on the island, and make sure people pick up and take care of the place, or lose a deposit, that they had to leave for the right to use the site......


Honestly what is the purpose of preserving beauty, if you don't allow people to use and enjoy it. What is the purpose of restricting the use of asset such as lake Winnipesaukee, such that people stop wanting to spend time there... These things are happening.... When I started coming up in the 80s and 90s, finding a hotel room on a weekend was unheard of..... in 2019, I have seen smaller place close, and almost any weekend I pass by at least one Hotel or Motel that has a room available.

As much as NH claims to be the live free or Die state, it is really starting to become the, its ours to enjoy but not yours unless you do as we say state.....

Sorry this is how I feel.... but I think it is sad.... I have a 10 year plan in my life, and for those 10 years I plan to continue to keep my families camp on Winnipesaukee, because it is convenient, and easy to get to from where my career dictates I live. But slowly I am making my mind up, that Winnipesaukee is no longer where I wish to retire, the society around the lake is becoming more like an exclusive country club, then a place of relaxation to get away from the societal norms......

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Well isn't this thread going all kinds of wonderful places.....

Well I feel some sense of responsibility for dragging this thread in unintended palaces, and adding to the volume without necessarily adding to the quality of the conversation. Sometimes we should all learn to just bit our tongue when there is no value added from our words.

As for your comments, I share many of your positions. And while I have never lived at the lake, I have been coming to Winnipesaukee since 1963, so I think I have a vested interest.

Not sure I could or would retire to Winnipesaukee, but I still look forward to a few more years enjoying the place of my picture perfect childhood summers.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Why can't people anchor overnight if the boat is capable of supporting such activity? Especially if they do it in an area where they are not disturbing residents... On the southwest side of Ragged is a perfect example of that. Why don't the towns want to produce revenue with some transient docking, and allowing people transient slips that they can be in from say 10 P.M. to 8 A.M. so as to not inter fear with the day use of the docks. Why doesn't a group like LRCT, support the use of their land for enjoyment? They do a wonderful job of preserving it..... But come one, put a couple of tentsite in on Ragged Island, that people can use... I am sure they could find a retired member that would be willing to summer on the island, and make sure people pick up and take care of the place, or lose a deposit, that they had to leave for the right to use the site......

If you want to see what happens when you start allowing the horrors of camping on islands, overnight anchoring, and overnight stays at town docks; in places similar to Winnipesaukee, take a look at Lake George, Lake Champlain, and 1000 Islands. They are all just awful places

The photos are from a Lake George island campsite, Alexandria Bay, NY town dock that allows overnight stays, and the free wall (yes, you can tie up overnight for free, including shore power!) at the south end of Lake Champlain in Whitehall, NY.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Dave R

If you want to see what happens when you start allowing the horrors of camping on islands, overnight anchoring, and overnight stays at town docks; in places similar to Winnipesaukee, take a look at Lake George, Lake Champlain, and 1000 Islands. They are all just awful places

The photos are from a Lake George island campsite, Alexandria Bay, NY town dock that allows overnight stays, and the free wall (yes, you can tie up overnight for free, including shore power!) at the south end of Lake Champlain in Whitehall, NY.

I am sold! Those pictures are worth a thousand words! Overnight docking/anchoring: bad idea.