Lakeview Tavern in Meredith

[garysanfran]

And happens to be Republican and some entitled moron starts yelling at you for your political position and you are forced to vacate your meal and leave?

What should management do in these instances? And I've wondered if the attacked diner, who has to flee, pays for the half-eaten meal? I wouldn't.

We have become a society that is offensive, easily offended, obnoxious, impolite, entitled, angry, infantile...Sorry, I'm realizing there are too many adjectives to list here that would apply today...Sad!

I would rather have dinner with someone I could have a polite, intellectual discussion on a subject we disagree on, than someone who says "Yes" and "I agree" to everything I say. I enjoy polite intellectual discourse.

Are we on the verge of a civil (uncivil) war? It is becoming very close to violence out there.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

And happens to be Republican and some entitled moron starts yelling at you for your political position and you are forced to vacate your meal and leave?

What should management do in these instances? And I've wondered if the attacked diner, who has to flee, pays for the half-eaten meal? I wouldn't.

We have become a society that is offensive, easily offended, obnoxious, impolite, entitled, angry, infantile...Sorry, I'm realizing there are too many adjectives to list here that would apply today...Sad!

I would rather have dinner with someone I could have a polite, intellectual discussion on a subject we disagree on, than someone who says "Yes" and "I agree" to everything I say. I enjoy polite intellectual discourse.

Are we on the verge of a civil (uncivil) war? It is becoming very close to violence out there.

Separate issues which I will briefly give my two cents on. First, if a customer is harassed, it is the responsibility of the owner/manager to address the issue. If harassing behavior continues and calling police is in order, do it. Or, show your distaste with your wallet and go elsewhere. What was described in the original post is unacceptable.

As to the political issue referenced, the biggest issue I have is the hypocrisy I see. If it is OK to refuse to bake a cake for someone based on their sexual identity, and you actively and vocally support that policy, than you can expect people not to serve you based on your political viewpoint. Personally, I think all businesses should serve all paying customers and treat them with kindness and respect regardless of anything else.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Separate issues which I will briefly give my two cents on. First, if a customer is harassed, it is the responsibility of the owner/manager to address the issue. If harassing behavior continues and calling police is in order, do it. Or, show your distaste with your wallet and go elsewhere. What was described in the original post is unacceptable.

As to the political issue referenced, the biggest issue I have is the hypocrisy I see. If it is OK to refuse to bake a cake for someone based on their sexual identity, and you actively and vocally support that policy, than you can expect people not to serve you based on your political viewpoint. Personally, I think all businesses should serve all paying customers and treat them with kindness and respect regardless of anything else.

There is no hypocrisy. The baker you referenced was exercising his religious freedom under the Constitution. Article 1 reads that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Accordingly, the government cannot force someone to do something that is against his or her religion. The Supreme Court agreed.

That being said, for instances when a customer is accosted in a restaurant, it is up to the restaurant owner to protect the customer, unless the behavior is criminal. Whether the customer is accosted by political enemies or a misogynous creep, the owner, I would think, has a duty to protect the customer, if the owner values the customer. If the owner does not decide to protect the customer, as in the Sarah Sanders/Red Hen incident, then we as customers can decide whether to patronize the establishment and encourage others to do the same.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Major

There is no hypocrisy. The baker you referenced was exercising his religious freedom under the Constitution. Article 1 reads that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Accordingly, the government cannot force someone to do something that is against his or her religion. The Supreme Court agreed.

That being said, for instances when a customer is accosted in a restaurant, it is up to the restaurant owner to protect the customer, unless the behavior is criminal. Whether the customer is accosted by political enemies or a misogynous creep, the owner, I would think, has a duty to protect the customer, if the owner values the customer. If the owner does not decide to protect the customer, as in the Sarah Sanders/Red Hen incident, then we as customers can decide whether to patronize the establishment and encourage others to do the same.

I respectfully disagree and will say that my understanding of the Supreme Court decision was very narrow and does not give blanket permission to refuse to serve someone based on religious beliefs. Instead, it found that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission was hostile toward the baker based on his religious beliefs. Both business owners respectfully declined to serve someone, and in my opinion, both were wrong. I have not heard that either owner was hostile toward the customer - protestors after the fact certainly were. I do agree with an earlier poster who said civility is declining. But, this remains simply my opinion on a forum that focuses on one of the greatest places I know.

[Major]

The Supreme Court does not take cases like these to craft narrow decisions. They take these types of cases to make a statement. Think Roe v. Wade. The baker offered to make the couple a cake without referencing marriage. The owner of the Red Hen followed Sarah Sander's family to another restaurant shouting at them the whole way.

[Garcia]

By narrow decision I simply meant that the Supreme Court left undecided whether a business owner’s religious or free speech rights can justify denying service. Justice Kennedy's decision focused on the religious bias of the Colorado Civil Rights Comission. It was a victory for the baker, but does not set precedent for other business owners to deny service based solely on religious beliefs. As to either of the business owners here, the baker or the restaraunt owner, chasing down and berating the customer, again, I have not heard or read about that. Protestors after the fact, yes, but not the owners. Perhaps I am wrong.

I believe that all people, black, white, gay, straight, liberal, conservative, etc. should be welcome everywhere. If, however, anyone acts inappropriately, he or she should be held accountable.

[Overlake97]

Originally Posted by Major

The owner of the Red Hen followed Sarah Sander's family to another restaurant shouting at them the whole way.

I had never heard this "followed...Sander's family" part of the Red Hen incident, so I Googled it. Every one of the news organizations that carried this part of the story, at least on the first Google results page, seemed to be politically "right of center." So...I went to Snopes, and here's what they had to say about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hu...d-hen-protest/

[Major]

Originally Posted by Overlake97

I had never heard this "followed...Sander's family" part of the Red Hen incident, so I Googled it. Every one of the news organizations that carried this part of the story, at least on the first Google results page, seemed to be politically "right of center." So...I went to Snopes, and here's what they had to say about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hu...d-hen-protest/

. . . you're making my point. What's true -- "After Stephanie Wilkinson asked Sarah Huckabee Sanders to leave her restaurant, a second encounter between Wilkinson and the Sanders family took place at another restaurant when a member of the public briefly held up a sign outside the other restaurant." What do you think Wilkinson and her followers were doing, silently holding signs? No, they followed Sander's family to another restaurant screaming at her.

[Overlake97]

Major, you are correct; Snopes did say that, right at the start. But if you read further down in the "analysis" you'll find the following (among other possibilities of what might have happened):

"At some point in the evening members of the group encountered Wilkinson outside on the street, but it’s not clear whether Wilkinson followed them there or simply happened to be passing by. (We sent Wilkinson a series of questions relating to the events of that evening but did not receive a response.)

The Southern Inn is not across the street from the Red Hen, although it is a few hundred feet away on Main Street (Lexington’s primary thoroughfare), meaning that Wilkinson could have incidentally bumped into the Sanders family on her way to somewhere else."

In any case, it seems unlikely there was an organized protest led by the owner of the Red Hen.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Overlake97

Major, you are correct; Snopes did say that, right at the start. But if you read further down in the "analysis" you'll find the following (among other possibilities of what might have happened):

"At some point in the evening members of the group encountered Wilkinson outside on the street, but it’s not clear whether Wilkinson followed them there or simply happened to be passing by. (We sent Wilkinson a series of questions relating to the events of that evening but did not receive a response.)

The Southern Inn is not across the street from the Red Hen, although it is a few hundred feet away on Main Street (Lexington’s primary thoroughfare), meaning that Wilkinson could have incidentally bumped into the Sanders family on her way to somewhere else."

In any case, it seems unlikely there was an organized protest led by the owner of the Red Hen.

She just happened to be walking by while others were shouting. What a coincidence!