Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Lake Issues > General Issues
Home Forums Gallery Webcams Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Register FAQDonate Members List Today's Posts

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2018, 07:08 AM   #1
garysanfran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco/Meredith
Posts: 1,575
Thanks: 668
Thanked 682 Times in 348 Posts
Default How about being a politico eating at a restaurant...

And happens to be Republican and some entitled moron starts yelling at you for your political position and you are forced to vacate your meal and leave?

What should management do in these instances? And I've wondered if the attacked diner, who has to flee, pays for the half-eaten meal? I wouldn't.

We have become a society that is offensive, easily offended, obnoxious, impolite, entitled, angry, infantile...Sorry, I'm realizing there are too many adjectives to list here that would apply today...Sad!

I would rather have dinner with someone I could have a polite, intellectual discussion on a subject we disagree on, than someone who says "Yes" and "I agree" to everything I say. I enjoy polite intellectual discourse.

Are we on the verge of a civil (uncivil) war? It is becoming very close to violence out there.
__________________
Gary
~~~~_/) ~~~
~~~~~~~~
garysanfran is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:10 PM   #2
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 610
Thanks: 136
Thanked 278 Times in 170 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garysanfran View Post
And happens to be Republican and some entitled moron starts yelling at you for your political position and you are forced to vacate your meal and leave?

What should management do in these instances? And I've wondered if the attacked diner, who has to flee, pays for the half-eaten meal? I wouldn't.

We have become a society that is offensive, easily offended, obnoxious, impolite, entitled, angry, infantile...Sorry, I'm realizing there are too many adjectives to list here that would apply today...Sad!

I would rather have dinner with someone I could have a polite, intellectual discussion on a subject we disagree on, than someone who says "Yes" and "I agree" to everything I say. I enjoy polite intellectual discourse.

Are we on the verge of a civil (uncivil) war? It is becoming very close to violence out there.
Separate issues which I will briefly give my two cents on. First, if a customer is harassed, it is the responsibility of the owner/manager to address the issue. If harassing behavior continues and calling police is in order, do it. Or, show your distaste with your wallet and go elsewhere. What was described in the original post is unacceptable.

As to the political issue referenced, the biggest issue I have is the hypocrisy I see. If it is OK to refuse to bake a cake for someone based on their sexual identity, and you actively and vocally support that policy, than you can expect people not to serve you based on your political viewpoint. Personally, I think all businesses should serve all paying customers and treat them with kindness and respect regardless of anything else.
Garcia is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Garcia For This Useful Post:
Barney Bear (07-11-2018), TheRoBoat (07-11-2018), thinkxingu (07-11-2018)
Old 07-11-2018, 01:27 PM   #3
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,082
Thanks: 446
Thanked 1,020 Times in 426 Posts
Default Just to clarify

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
Separate issues which I will briefly give my two cents on. First, if a customer is harassed, it is the responsibility of the owner/manager to address the issue. If harassing behavior continues and calling police is in order, do it. Or, show your distaste with your wallet and go elsewhere. What was described in the original post is unacceptable.

As to the political issue referenced, the biggest issue I have is the hypocrisy I see. If it is OK to refuse to bake a cake for someone based on their sexual identity, and you actively and vocally support that policy, than you can expect people not to serve you based on your political viewpoint. Personally, I think all businesses should serve all paying customers and treat them with kindness and respect regardless of anything else.
There is no hypocrisy. The baker you referenced was exercising his religious freedom under the Constitution. Article 1 reads that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Accordingly, the government cannot force someone to do something that is against his or her religion. The Supreme Court agreed.

That being said, for instances when a customer is accosted in a restaurant, it is up to the restaurant owner to protect the customer, unless the behavior is criminal. Whether the customer is accosted by political enemies or a misogynous creep, the owner, I would think, has a duty to protect the customer, if the owner values the customer. If the owner does not decide to protect the customer, as in the Sarah Sanders/Red Hen incident, then we as customers can decide whether to patronize the establishment and encourage others to do the same.
Major is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:44 PM   #4
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 610
Thanks: 136
Thanked 278 Times in 170 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major View Post
There is no hypocrisy. The baker you referenced was exercising his religious freedom under the Constitution. Article 1 reads that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Accordingly, the government cannot force someone to do something that is against his or her religion. The Supreme Court agreed.

That being said, for instances when a customer is accosted in a restaurant, it is up to the restaurant owner to protect the customer, unless the behavior is criminal. Whether the customer is accosted by political enemies or a misogynous creep, the owner, I would think, has a duty to protect the customer, if the owner values the customer. If the owner does not decide to protect the customer, as in the Sarah Sanders/Red Hen incident, then we as customers can decide whether to patronize the establishment and encourage others to do the same.
I respectfully disagree and will say that my understanding of the Supreme Court decision was very narrow and does not give blanket permission to refuse to serve someone based on religious beliefs. Instead, it found that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission was hostile toward the baker based on his religious beliefs. Both business owners respectfully declined to serve someone, and in my opinion, both were wrong. I have not heard that either owner was hostile toward the customer - protestors after the fact certainly were. I do agree with an earlier poster who said civility is declining. But, this remains simply my opinion on a forum that focuses on one of the greatest places I know.
Garcia is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:16 PM   #5
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,082
Thanks: 446
Thanked 1,020 Times in 426 Posts
Default Supreme Court

The Supreme Court does not take cases like these to craft narrow decisions. They take these types of cases to make a statement. Think Roe v. Wade. The baker offered to make the couple a cake without referencing marriage. The owner of the Red Hen followed Sarah Sander's family to another restaurant shouting at them the whole way.
Major is offline  
Sponsored Links
Old 07-11-2018, 02:39 PM   #6
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 610
Thanks: 136
Thanked 278 Times in 170 Posts
Default

By narrow decision I simply meant that the Supreme Court left undecided whether a business owner’s religious or free speech rights can justify denying service. Justice Kennedy's decision focused on the religious bias of the Colorado Civil Rights Comission. It was a victory for the baker, but does not set precedent for other business owners to deny service based solely on religious beliefs. As to either of the business owners here, the baker or the restaraunt owner, chasing down and berating the customer, again, I have not heard or read about that. Protestors after the fact, yes, but not the owners. Perhaps I am wrong.

I believe that all people, black, white, gay, straight, liberal, conservative, etc. should be welcome everywhere. If, however, anyone acts inappropriately, he or she should be held accountable.

Last edited by Garcia; 07-11-2018 at 03:30 PM.
Garcia is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:43 PM   #7
Overlake97
Senior Member
 
Overlake97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford
Posts: 246
Thanks: 146
Thanked 58 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major View Post
The owner of the Red Hen followed Sarah Sander's family to another restaurant shouting at them the whole way.
I had never heard this "followed...Sander's family" part of the Red Hen incident, so I Googled it. Every one of the news organizations that carried this part of the story, at least on the first Google results page, seemed to be politically "right of center." So...I went to Snopes, and here's what they had to say about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hu...d-hen-protest/
Overlake97 is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:50 PM   #8
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,082
Thanks: 446
Thanked 1,020 Times in 426 Posts
Default As the Big O would say . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlake97 View Post
I had never heard this "followed...Sander's family" part of the Red Hen incident, so I Googled it. Every one of the news organizations that carried this part of the story, at least on the first Google results page, seemed to be politically "right of center." So...I went to Snopes, and here's what they had to say about it: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hu...d-hen-protest/
. . . you're making my point. What's true -- "After Stephanie Wilkinson asked Sarah Huckabee Sanders to leave her restaurant, a second encounter between Wilkinson and the Sanders family took place at another restaurant when a member of the public briefly held up a sign outside the other restaurant." What do you think Wilkinson and her followers were doing, silently holding signs? No, they followed Sander's family to another restaurant screaming at her.
Major is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:05 PM   #9
Overlake97
Senior Member
 
Overlake97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford
Posts: 246
Thanks: 146
Thanked 58 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Major, you are correct; Snopes did say that, right at the start. But if you read further down in the "analysis" you'll find the following (among other possibilities of what might have happened):

"At some point in the evening members of the group encountered Wilkinson outside on the street, but it’s not clear whether Wilkinson followed them there or simply happened to be passing by. (We sent Wilkinson a series of questions relating to the events of that evening but did not receive a response.)

The Southern Inn is not across the street from the Red Hen, although it is a few hundred feet away on Main Street (Lexington’s primary thoroughfare), meaning that Wilkinson could have incidentally bumped into the Sanders family on her way to somewhere else."

In any case, it seems unlikely there was an organized protest led by the owner of the Red Hen.
Overlake97 is offline  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:10 PM   #10
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,082
Thanks: 446
Thanked 1,020 Times in 426 Posts
Default Coincidence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlake97 View Post
Major, you are correct; Snopes did say that, right at the start. But if you read further down in the "analysis" you'll find the following (among other possibilities of what might have happened):

"At some point in the evening members of the group encountered Wilkinson outside on the street, but it’s not clear whether Wilkinson followed them there or simply happened to be passing by. (We sent Wilkinson a series of questions relating to the events of that evening but did not receive a response.)

The Southern Inn is not across the street from the Red Hen, although it is a few hundred feet away on Main Street (Lexington’s primary thoroughfare), meaning that Wilkinson could have incidentally bumped into the Sanders family on her way to somewhere else."

In any case, it seems unlikely there was an organized protest led by the owner of the Red Hen.
She just happened to be walking by while others were shouting. What a coincidence!
Major is offline  
 

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.26663 seconds