Help with repair issue

Woodsy · 04-25-2017, 12:50 PM

Steveo...

The pins are steel..... the gimbal Ring & tiller arm are aluminum. The aluminum is much softer than the steel. The stress & vibration elongate the holes and it wears out. Its also quite possible the aluminum "work hardens" over time, then becomes brittle & cracks.. causing a failure.

Dave R.... "The steering lever and swivel pin area much less money than a gimbal ring, but the labor to replace them is the same as a gimbal ring."

This why most marinas recommend you replace the whole transom assembly! You get a new tiller arm, new gimbal ring, new gimbal bearing and 2 new trim cylinders all replaced at the same time. If your smart, you replace the engine coupler too.... then you know your transoms health, have no issues, tight steering and a warranty!

Not a bad setup for $3K!

Woodsy

Rich · 04-25-2017, 01:50 PM

Sometimes the cost of the labor is so high, due to the amount of work involved to take it apart, and put it back together, that it's worth replacing as much as you can (in parts cost) to make smart use of that expensive labor charge.

PLUS (this is important in my eyes), you don't want this to fail right at the peak of summer, when you want to use the boat the most.

I had a problem a few years ago, suddenly one of my engines wouldn't run at all. This was the start of the Independence day week. I had a weeks vacation planned and with the 4th of July just a couple of days away and I had a boat full of friends and relatives on their way, some were flying in.

It turned out to be a lot of water in one of my fuel tanks. Luckily my boat was setup to allow either engine to be switched from one tank, to another.

Catastrophe diverted, and everyone had a great time on the boat, while I ran both engines on the one tank that didn't have water in it.

So, do you want to have a failure during a peak time of the summer? Or would you rather pay now, before the season is in full swing. To me this is worth it to fix it ahead of time and not have this fail right when you would prefer to be using the boat the most.

As to the cost of labor vs parts, this reminds me of hearing my Dad complain about a bill he got back about in the year 1972 (he was a joint owner for a 44ft Egg Harbor Sport Fish). He was complaining about a bill he received from the boat yard that stated:

Parts: $2.75
Labor: $2,500.00

He was livid about the bill until he called and found out what the bill was for.

Evidentially, they had to remove the 'tuna tower' from the boat to allow the boat to be brought into a storage building for winter storage. The $2,500.00 was for the labor to remove the tuna tower from the boat. The $2.75 was for the piece of rope to tie the tower against a wall during storage.

To the OP, please let us know what happens.

Dave R · 04-26-2017, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Steveo...

The pins are steel..... the gimbal Ring & tiller arm are aluminum. The aluminum is much softer than the steel. The stress & vibration elongate the holes and it wears out. Its also quite possible the aluminum "work hardens" over time, then becomes brittle & cracks.. causing a failure.

Dave R.... "The steering lever and swivel pin area much less money than a gimbal ring, but the labor to replace them is the same as a gimbal ring."

This why most marinas recommend you replace the whole transom assembly! You get a new tiller arm, new gimbal ring, new gimbal bearing and 2 new trim cylinders all replaced at the same time. If your smart, you replace the engine coupler too.... then you know your transoms health, have no issues, tight steering and a warranty!

Not a bad setup for $3K!

Woodsy

I guess it would make some sense to replace the whole assembly, but not for me, I keep stuff a long time, buy good used parts when possible, and only replace things that fail. I'm on my 9th season with a rebuilt Bravo Driveshaft Housing (upper gear case) that I only paid $500 for... My lower gear case, trim cylinders and all other major parts except for the gimbal ring, swivel shaft, and steering lever, are 17 years old and working great.

BTW, The steering lever is absolutely not aluminum. It's ferrous and appears to be a nice forged steel part; very strong but not brittle like cast iron.

Woodsy · 04-26-2017, 05:46 PM

DaveR..

Don't get me wrong.... I am all for saving a buck. If you can do the work yourself, more power to you. And once you dive in you are along for the ride... Sometimes its not that bad, other times you find out you to replace more parts. Sometimes used parts work.. sometimes they don't... Sometimes I have been lucky.. other times I might as well flush the cash down the toilet. (my personal experience with used boat parts)

In any case, the OP indicated he was going to shop the work around so my guess was he was not doing the work himself. It obviously has to be really bad if the marina made him sign a waiver...

Woodsy

SAB1 · 05-01-2017, 04:20 PM

$4,000 for that job seems high to me. If it truly is worn it should be fixed. If it were me I'd suck it up now while the weather is still cool and you can live without the boat a weekend or two. Nothing worse than getting towed in on the fourth of July weekend and then having the boat in the shop a week or two when the weather is hot and company arrives..............

HellRaZoR004 · 05-01-2017, 07:31 PM

Do us a favor and take a picture of your drive and transom assembly.

A new transom assembly for an Alpha 1 Gen 2 drive is around $3k. $1k in labor to remove the engine, the assembly, and reinstall is not that far fetched.

If the transom assembly is salvageable you have some options. Your best bet would be to send your Gimbal Ring to JR Marine to have it repaired (I assume they can do Alpha drives)...otherwise you need a new Gimbal Ring @ ~$1k.

You will most likely need need to purchase a new steering pin, OEM is around $400.

...there are aftermarket options for close to $150...then the bushings and seals to replace the ones in the Gimbal housing.

Add everything up using OEM prices it makes sense to buy a new transom assembly...using aftermarket parts makes it a whole lot cheaper though.

04-25-2017, 12:50 PM	#1
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Steveo... The pins are steel..... the gimbal Ring & tiller arm are aluminum. The aluminum is much softer than the steel. The stress & vibration elongate the holes and it wears out. Its also quite possible the aluminum "work hardens" over time, then becomes brittle & cracks.. causing a failure. Dave R.... "The steering lever and swivel pin area much less money than a gimbal ring, but the labor to replace them is the same as a gimbal ring." This why most marinas recommend you replace the whole transom assembly! You get a new tiller arm, new gimbal ring, new gimbal bearing and 2 new trim cylinders all replaced at the same time. If your smart, you replace the engine coupler too.... then you know your transoms health, have no issues, tight steering and a warranty! Not a bad setup for $3K! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-25-2017, 01:50 PM	#2
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,246 Thanks: 73 Thanked 345 Times in 235 Posts	Sometimes the cost of the labor is so high, due to the amount of work involved to take it apart, and put it back together, that it's worth replacing as much as you can (in parts cost) to make smart use of that expensive labor charge. PLUS (this is important in my eyes), you don't want this to fail right at the peak of summer, when you want to use the boat the most. I had a problem a few years ago, suddenly one of my engines wouldn't run at all. This was the start of the Independence day week. I had a weeks vacation planned and with the 4th of July just a couple of days away and I had a boat full of friends and relatives on their way, some were flying in. It turned out to be a lot of water in one of my fuel tanks. Luckily my boat was setup to allow either engine to be switched from one tank, to another. Catastrophe diverted, and everyone had a great time on the boat, while I ran both engines on the one tank that didn't have water in it. So, do you want to have a failure during a peak time of the summer? Or would you rather pay now, before the season is in full swing. To me this is worth it to fix it ahead of time and not have this fail right when you would prefer to be using the boat the most. As to the cost of labor vs parts, this reminds me of hearing my Dad complain about a bill he got back about in the year 1972 (he was a joint owner for a 44ft Egg Harbor Sport Fish). He was complaining about a bill he received from the boat yard that stated: Parts: $2.75 Labor: $2,500.00 He was livid about the bill until he called and found out what the bill was for. Evidentially, they had to remove the 'tuna tower' from the boat to allow the boat to be brought into a storage building for winter storage. The $2,500.00 was for the labor to remove the tuna tower from the boat. The $2.75 was for the piece of rope to tie the tower against a wall during storage. To the OP, please let us know what happens. __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com

04-26-2017, 05:46 PM	#4
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	DaveR.. Don't get me wrong.... I am all for saving a buck. If you can do the work yourself, more power to you. And once you dive in you are along for the ride... Sometimes its not that bad, other times you find out you to replace more parts. Sometimes used parts work.. sometimes they don't... Sometimes I have been lucky.. other times I might as well flush the cash down the toilet. (my personal experience with used boat parts) In any case, the OP indicated he was going to shop the work around so my guess was he was not doing the work himself. It obviously has to be really bad if the marina made him sign a waiver... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

05-01-2017, 04:20 PM	#5
SAB1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Tuftonboro Posts: 1,232 Thanks: 190 Thanked 323 Times in 236 Posts	$4,000 for that job seems high to me. If it truly is worn it should be fixed. If it were me I'd suck it up now while the weather is still cool and you can live without the boat a weekend or two. Nothing worse than getting towed in on the fourth of July weekend and then having the boat in the shop a week or two when the weather is hot and company arrives..............

05-01-2017, 07:31 PM	#6
HellRaZoR004 Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Litchfield/Gilford Posts: 828 Thanks: 233 Thanked 224 Times in 131 Posts	Do us a favor and take a picture of your drive and transom assembly. A new transom assembly for an Alpha 1 Gen 2 drive is around $3k. $1k in labor to remove the engine, the assembly, and reinstall is not that far fetched. If the transom assembly is salvageable you have some options. Your best bet would be to send your Gimbal Ring to JR Marine to have it repaired (I assume they can do Alpha drives)...otherwise you need a new Gimbal Ring @ ~$1k. You will most likely need need to purchase a new steering pin, OEM is around $400. ...there are aftermarket options for close to $150...then the bushings and seals to replace the ones in the Gimbal housing. Add everything up using OEM prices it makes sense to buy a new transom assembly...using aftermarket parts makes it a whole lot cheaper though.