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09-29-2013, 08:32 PM | #1 |
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Downings Landing - What a shame.
I have been a seasonal customer of Jon and Nancy for a few years and they always ran a good business. Nancy organizing the launches and trailering. Jon organizing the parking, keeping parking in the lines and in the right size spaces.
Today we likely to find cars in trailer only spaces, or trucks & trailers in car-top only spaces, Parking across the lines, in at funny angles, docks falling in the water, boats at the docks overnight, boats and trailers parked overnight, etc. But worst of all, the inconsiderate and the ignorant have power loaded the hell out of the ramp leaving a 3-4" step down off the concrete ramp top and a steep crater right behind it. The mound of relocated bottom has resulted in a very shallow pad at the end of the dock, maybe 30" deep or less, where it used to be 6' or more. I trimmed up out at the end of the dock. I have used this ramp hundreds of times over the years without incident. Maybe a touch of an angle if you backed in too much to the right but very smooth and the right angle. Today, my F150 struggled to pull my 23 footer up the steep ramp, especially at the step up that was never there before. A few more ignorant power loads and the ramp will be basically unusable for most boaters, until the ramp is repaired. Based on the deteriorating docks in only one year, my guess is that the F&G won't be spending much to repair the ramp. Without anyone present to provide direction and/or authority, Downing seems to be headed straight into the crapper. This is a shame for a business that worked so well for years. I miss Jon and Nancy, and of course, wish them well. Too bad the new owners don't seem to have the interest, knowledge or budget to maintain this formally great facility. Jon and Nancy are friends, they must cringe as they see this business basically fall apart in only a year. I hope next year the F&G proves to be more active in maintenance and management or this ramp will be very poor or dangerous. |
09-29-2013, 09:16 PM | #2 | |
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There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits. Last edited by RLW; 09-29-2013 at 09:17 PM. Reason: forgot a word |
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09-29-2013, 09:36 PM | #3 | |
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As I stated, I hope next year proves to be different. I don't know their plans, maybe you do. I only know what I have seen in their first year of operation. |
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09-30-2013, 08:13 AM | #4 | |
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09-30-2013, 09:02 AM | #5 |
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Things change growing pains are inevitable.....
While you may not like the fact that Downings is now owned by the State, and its going to become a fish and Game access point. You must except it because it happening. For far to long NH inland water ways have had restricted access to what is supposed to be a public body of water. All the towns saw fit to start charging for the use of their facilities, and none of the current state facilities had adequate parking. You can't claim to have a public access, with out making it accessible to everyone.... Last as I stated in another thread... Realize where the blame is.... it is on the people that use the facility and don't want to have consideration for others. Plain and simple....
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09-30-2013, 09:29 AM | #6 |
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Power loading
I just don't understand the need to power load? Am I missing something???? If you just position your trailer correctly it will slide on 90% of the way. 20 seconds of cranking and the its ready to go.
Is it just laziness or do some trailers require so much effort? I know all the ones I have used are easy to load... |
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09-30-2013, 09:35 AM | #7 | |
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09-30-2013, 09:48 AM | #8 |
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"general incompetence" Well said!
Not only is it at the ramp but also on the water. The no-wake zone in Alton Bay has been completely ignored by boaters coming from and going to the "New Public Ramp". Alton Bay now has a new class of boaters. |
09-30-2013, 10:51 AM | #9 |
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There are parts of the country where the ramps are 100% concrete and power loading is not a problem. That is why there is a big sign saying 'no power loading'. It used to be a $100 fine under the Downings.
I do not glide onto the trailer. I tie up, trailer backs down, walk the boat onto the trailer with a line on the stern and bow, cinch up and wife drives the boat up the ramp and away from ramp. I take less time, due to practice I am sure, than most boaters, even many of those that powerload. Floating in on can be very quick and easy, and does not destroy the ramp for all others. I have seen numerous bass boats powerload. Two men on board, idle up to dock and one hops out, boat driver backs out slightly and waits, other man backs down the ramp, boater powers on and truck driver pulls forward with the boater still in the boat. This is fast, for sure, but ruins the ramp for others as well as their next trip back. PLEASE understand that I am not blaming this on bass boats only. I fish too. It is just something I have seen numerous times. I see bowriders and cuddy's power load too. |
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09-30-2013, 11:07 AM | #10 |
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There are three ways to load a boat onto a trailer, two involve power but one is not "power loading". Idling on to the trailer is perfectly acceptable (John and Nancy tole me there was no problem with it) where power loading is not allowed and always faster than pulling the boat onto the trailer with lines, if done correctly.
I have always idled onto my trailer and winched up the last few feet. I don't tug the boat onto the trailer manually because lines only work under tension and a little cross wind at the wrong time can really screw up the process if the boat is being blown toward you. My boat is rather heavy too, so it would take forever. |
09-30-2013, 11:41 AM | #11 | |
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I do it the same way. Have since my father taught me to load using ropes. The only time I may motor to the trailer is in a severe wind condition where I want to be on the boat should anything happen. And I have a 25 foot Monterey cruiser. |
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09-30-2013, 01:41 PM | #12 | |
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I also see folks power on because they clearly did not back their trailer in far enough and now they are lifting the bow up as they force the boat forward. |
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09-30-2013, 02:33 PM | #13 | |
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We all need to think about the future of the ramp or the free ramp could quickly become one less access place. R2B |
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09-30-2013, 02:55 PM | #14 | |
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09-30-2013, 03:10 PM | #15 |
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Food for thought
While power loading is a problem. I think what the boating community is missing is the fact that what is really needed is better ramp infrastructure. And more education on the various ways trailers can be built.
Having boated all over the country, The Northeast has some of the worst access points. Ramps are constructed so that they aren't steep enough, to facility floating boats on and off of trailers. Or when they are shallow they are built as huge concrete blocks so that power loading is not a problem. The last thing about ramps in other area's of the country is that they are huge some wide enough to allow 5-10 boats launch at once... Here in the Northeast ramps are often shallow, and end short such that the trailer is no longer on the ramp but rather out on the lake bed. Because many are only big enough for one boat people often feel rushed. The other thing that people need to consider is that bunk trailers if you are constantly loading and unloading your boat aren't always the best option. Most manufacturers, offer them as std. equipment for trailer boats because they are cheap and easy to produce. A roller trailer really solves many of the problems, however often add to the cost of a boat, so most people stay with the standard bunk trailer.
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09-30-2013, 03:11 PM | #16 | |
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same routine
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I back the trailer in and my wife IDLES the boat on 3-4mph. As soon as the bow is between the bunks of the trailer the engine is off and she trims up. We never push any water with the boat stationary. Crank the winch for a few seconds and pull out. If my trailer is wet for more than minute I would be surprised. Not to point fingers but it seems bass boats and pontoons seem to power load the most. I think it's an outboard thing not really a boat type. Maybe us i/o guys don't want to grind up a prop on the ramp either. I think they are just clueless to the damage it does. |
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09-30-2013, 04:32 PM | #17 | |
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I've never power-loaded either of my boats onto the trailer but I used to idle on until the hull made contact with the bunks when I was launching at Ames Farm; they were winched up from there. Since I've been launching/retrieving at WAM, it's float off and float on only since they have docks on either side of the ramp and it's a simple process to walk the boat off and back on.
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09-30-2013, 05:19 PM | #18 |
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In REAL Life..Baja has it right. Bunks are designed for Support Of The Hull ....to Retain the shape of the hull as much as possable over time. (Yes..bunks are cheaper.)
Rollers offer easier loading and launch..BUT.. Offer Hard Spots (Stress points) which..in the long run.. can be detrimental to the retention of hull shape ..particularly with performance boats. NB |
09-30-2013, 06:17 PM | #19 |
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I've had a roller and two bunk trailers. I'll never own another roller. Bunks work great and do an excellent job of aligning the boat perfectly.
I will never own another trailer with surge brakes either. Electric brakes are vastly superior in my opinion. |
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10-01-2013, 07:57 AM | #20 |
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I only want to talk about this part of your post. I think this boils down to either ignorance, or cluelessness. There is a difference.
Ignorance to me means that the person knows enough not to do something, but does it anyway. Cluelessness to me means that the person does not know not to do something. In other words, they were not educated. Which brings me to my point. Where does one get an education on how to load/unload a boat at the ramp? The answer is simple...there is no place. It is not discussed in the boater safety education course, and as far as I know, it is not discussed anywhere else. So how do they learn? Experience, and from the experiences of others who have been educated. That's how I learned.
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10-01-2013, 08:51 AM | #21 | |
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10-01-2013, 09:37 AM | #22 | |
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People that have issues, with roller trailers are not providing enough support, don't have the proper roller trailer... They also buy cheap trailers, and don't bother to customize them to the application... Like wise I also see plenty of boats, on poorly designed bunk trailers that do more damage then the do good.... The idea that bunk trailer better supports a boat, then a properly designed roller boat trailer, is a total misconception... After having customized a roller trailer to properly fit a boat, I can tell, you that I could load the boat, just a fast as someone with a bunk trailer, with out any alignment issues. And there where no issue with the hull not being supported..... I have had many marina's give me the same song and dance about bunk trailers are better, and the bottom line, is they don't have the desire, time, or expertise, to properly fit a roller trailer.... I looked at replacing my current bunk trailer a few years ago, with a roller trailer and talked with a few marinas, and was told that they would order a trailer, and fit it to my boat to the best of their abilities, but wouldn't be able do do any customizing.... This was after talking with the trailer and boat manufactures, knowing what model trailer I wanted, and what modifications where need to properly support the boat. The boat manufacture, recommend adding addition rollers at the stern of the boat, to better support the weight. The Trailer manufacturer recommended ordering the standard trailer, and adding the extra rollers myself, or ask my marina to do it when the did the fit of the trailer to the boat.. As the cost of doing a custom order was substantially higher for the couple of customizations I needed.. But the dealer wouldn't take the time to modify the trailer....They told me they would order the extra parts, but didn't have someone with the right expertise to install them, and truly fit the boat to the trailer. As I ended up not trailing the boat, as much as I anticipated, I opted not to get the new trailer... but the experience taught me a few things... 1st if you do your homework there is nothing wrong with a roller trailer (I already knew this, but my experiences confirmed this) 2nd -- fitting a roller trailer properly, takes time, and marinas don't like taking that time... 3rd if you talk to the boat manufacturer and the trailer manufacture, you can get the results you are looking for. Oh by the way, the trailer I was looking to order, was the same on the Boat Manufacturer orders when a roller trailer is requested by a marina...
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10-01-2013, 09:54 AM | #23 |
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There was when the Downings owned it.
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10-01-2013, 10:36 AM | #24 | |
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With those definitions I think it's cluelessness. I doubt the power loaders are bad people they just don't know what damage they can do. I am not sure where I learned that power loading was bad... I always just found it easiest to slide the boat on and winch the rest. I believe they do talk about power loading in the course though. I remeber seeing a drawing of the mound of sand behind the ramp. If I see someone power loading I will say something to educate. You just don't always get the opportunity to talk though. |
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10-01-2013, 11:14 AM | #25 |
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Nh Boat Ed - Power Loading
The below taken from the online NH Boat Ed study guide.
"Do Not Power Load Your Boat Propeller wash can erode the sediment just beyond the ramp surface, creating a large hole. The eroded sediment is deposited behind the propeller, creating a mound. Trailer tires can get stuck in these holes, and boats can run aground on the mound." Nice picture below of end of ramp washed out and mound behind.... So being clueless is not an excuse - assuming you do have a nh boat license.
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10-01-2013, 06:54 PM | #26 |
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10-01-2013, 07:08 PM | #27 | |
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I think it safe to safe that there are numerous sources of education if someone wants to learn. |
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10-01-2013, 07:17 PM | #28 |
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Chip, I used the term 'ignorant' in my original post. Ignorant means uninformed or uneducated. I did not mean that they knew better but did it anyway; this is where I used the term 'inconsiderate'.
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10-02-2013, 07:41 AM | #29 |
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That's good. And as was just posted, it is discussed in the NH boater education. However, what if someone is so clueless that they don't know what power loading is?
I realize I might be stretching a bit, and yes, it is probably more that people just don't care. But I bet there are people who don't know any better.
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10-02-2013, 09:47 AM | #30 | |
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10-02-2013, 10:55 AM | #31 | |
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confession time...guilty as charged
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From my observation at the ramps, there are many more folks like me who are ignorant/clueless or whatever we want to call them who just don't know of any other way to do it. I wish I had known about this before now. Going forward, I will be more respectful of the proper way to load a boat on a trailer. |
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10-02-2013, 11:17 AM | #32 |
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10-06-2013, 07:35 PM | #33 |
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Used the ramp today, all I can say is WOW! Wow, and wow!
It took 3 times to get the trailer tires over the lip and back up onto cement. I personally like the 10' crater that is there, I certainly hope they come up with a solution to that issue! Yikes |
10-06-2013, 09:07 PM | #34 |
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I have a simple question. Can't people see this so called crater before putting in or taking out, or is the water so murky that you can't see it???
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10-07-2013, 08:57 AM | #36 |
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Thank you for this post. As the OP, some of the responses made me out to be a bit of an alarmist. I tried to make my post accurate without too much hyperbole. I would hope next years brings some level of supervision, authority and maintenance because the current plan ain't work'n.
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10-07-2013, 09:41 AM | #37 |
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2 things I forgot to add, 1) the lake is so low this time of year it made it even more difficult to get the trailer situated just right and 2) we had to gun it to get over the lip that the boat came off 2 of the rollers and is now sitting funny on the trailer. The shibleys ramp is looking pretty good these days, should have gone there instead!
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10-07-2013, 01:22 PM | #38 | |
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Be careful what you wish for.
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Regarding the F&G ramp, my recollection is that they intend to upgrade the ramp, but I would guess that was not in the plans for this year. I thought that I had read they intend to put in concrete pads, but that would, I'm sure, take DES approval and site work to boot. Someone who has the time and cares may want to investigate the articles back when this property sale was first announced and see if they can find info on this.
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10-07-2013, 01:32 PM | #39 |
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Here ya go. Pay attention to the statement MAY INCLUDE.
"NH FISH AND GAME ACQUIRES BOAT ACCESS SITE ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE CONCORD, N.H. -- On November 21, 2012, the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department purchased a private marina known as Downing’s Landing at the southern tip of Alton Bay. That means Fish and Game, after many years, has finally acquired a boat access facility on Lake Winnipesaukee, the state’s largest lake. "This is exciting news for New Hampshire's outdoor enthusiasts because it creates the first state-owned and controlled public boat ramp with parking on Lake Winnipesaukee," said Fish and Game Executive Director Glenn Normandeau. "For years, we've wanted to provide the public with a boat access site on the big lake, and I am thrilled that we've been able to do it." The Downing's Landing facility includes an existing boat launch with paved parking for vehicles with trailers, as well as a handful of cartop parking spaces. The site includes two buildings and several docks that will allow for excellent shorebank fishing opportunities, particularly during the spring salmon season. The facility will be open to the public for launching boats and shorebank fishing with no fee. The site may be temporarily closed while Fish and Game transitions ownership and determines what maintenance and repairs are necessary. Since the general use of the property will not change, it seems to be for the most part a "turnkey" facility that can be opened to the public with minimal work. This is quite different from most acquisitions of undeveloped property, which can take months or even years of planning, permitting and construction before a boat access site can be opened to the public. In the near term, parking configurations will be evaluated and maximized for the upcoming boating season. Future renovations will be planned as Fish and Game moves forward. Improvements may include dock repairs and installation of a newer concrete boat ramp. Fish and Game officials hope to have the site open this winter in time for the ice fishing season. New Hampshire's Public Boat Access Program is funded through boat registration fees and federal Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration funds, a true user-pay, user-benefit program. Fish and Game's Facilities and Lands Division acquires land for public water access sites, refurbishes existing sites and builds new public boat access areas. Fish and Game maintains more than 140 public boat access sites throughout New Hampshire. " |
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10-07-2013, 02:11 PM | #40 |
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I pulled my boat out yesterday at the ramp and couldn't agree more. I hope F&G can idiot proof the ramp somehow because there is no shortage of idiots using it and ruining it for others.
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10-07-2013, 02:49 PM | #41 |
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Why is it that so many people are complaining this year about this ramp...
I find it hard to believe that over the course of a summer that the ramp was ruined... As with all ramps in the Northeast that I have had to deal with, I am sure this ramp fall into the category, of not being designed to be used with today larger boats. Of course to build proper ramps requires finding the right site, and dealing with environmental approval... If your going to boat late into the season, deal with the fact that getting your boat on the trailer is going to come with some hassles. Or learn where the better ramps are around the lake.
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10-07-2013, 06:33 PM | #43 |
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Could it be that the ones that are having a problem with the ramp didn't use it when it was a pay for usage ramp and now it is free they come and decide to use it and park their vehicles and trailers on sight and then complain????
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10-07-2013, 06:37 PM | #44 |
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Yes, RLW, I was thinking it is probably getting a LOT more use now that it is free.
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10-07-2013, 06:37 PM | #45 | |
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Sure some people are ignorant to power loading, but this is no excuse just like ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. IMO, this is more about inconsiderate behavior because there is no one there to correct them. Same thing for improper and illegal parking, illegal docking, leaving garbage everywhere, etc. |
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10-07-2013, 09:21 PM | #46 |
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Not the greatest ramp in the past.
I have been reading this thread with interest.
My 25 ft Mariah broke down the first summer we had it (coil cracked, warranty fix) and I called TowBoat US for the tow in. Also called Parker Marine, and once we got to Downings, we tied off at the dock and Parker came across the street with a trailer to bring the boat to their yard. They backed the trailer in, and there was a hole along the right side of the ramp that made it difficult to get the boat on the trailer straight. Not a big deal...they got it on the trailer with a little trial and error, and then across the street. While we were loading, another boater there said that you had to straddle two holes to get the trailer level. Can't verify it...I never launched there personally. Also, as far as the Downings always being there..not necessarily true. They were there far more than the F&G are, but early mornings and evenings and nights, we saw boaters power loading during the "Downing era". I just fear that it is being done a lot more now. Too bad. I hope that the "may include" concrete ramps will come to fruition.
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10-07-2013, 10:09 PM | #47 |
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I had a season pass for the past 10 years or so with the Downings and never had any issue with the ramp until this year. It was always maintained and in good condition. Thank goodness I got a slip this year and only had to use it twice.
BTW there was always a drop off/uneveness on the right side of the ramp thats why no one used that side. |
10-08-2013, 08:58 AM | #48 |
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While I think it's a shame that inconsiderate people have made a mess of the ramp, the parking is still free and convenient (assuming you can get spot); and there is another ramp right around the corner that does not have any issues. It also happens to have substantially more dock space. You certainly can use the other ramp and still park at Downings... That's what I plan to do until the Downings ramp is repaired.
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10-08-2013, 10:51 AM | #49 | |
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Just an FYI
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10-08-2013, 12:23 PM | #50 |
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I didn't think about that. The Irwin's in Alton is off the water so they need a place to put in and out. Very interesting. Glad they can use Robert's Cove.
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10-08-2013, 01:59 PM | #51 | |
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So in my case, no. |
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10-08-2013, 02:11 PM | #52 | |
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I know that.
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good heads up for others though.
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10-08-2013, 04:21 PM | #53 |
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As I stated before the regulars that use the Downing ramp know not to use the right side of the ramp because of the drop and unevenness. That has always been there at least the last 12 years. As far as Parker coming to retrieve your boat and using the right side ramp he I am sure knows better.
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10-09-2013, 09:25 AM | #54 | |
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10-09-2013, 09:56 AM | #55 |
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8 days a week. That is some hardcore dedication
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10-09-2013, 12:45 PM | #56 |
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