What An Idiot!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ApS

Just ask them...

Originally Posted by Little Bear

I did. Check the facts with Marine Patrol. I would put any amount of money on the fact that the "per-category" ratio of violations is far lower for performance boats that most if not all other classes of vessels on the lake. Probably the only class vessel with a lower rate of violations is the cabin cruiser class. You can put all the roll-eye icons in your reply that you want, but it won't change the facts.

Don't ask the Newbie MPs...



What follows is something seasoned MPs could tell you...



"Per-category ratio", recent Winnipesaukee history would argue against the previous assertion—not to mention that the "violations" to victims were mortal violations:

1. Wolfeboro —Donzi— 1 Victim
2. Diamond Is. —Formula— 1 Victim
3. Meredith —Baja— 1 Victim
4. Gilford —Cigarette— 3 Victims

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ApS

Don't ask the Newbie MPs...



What follows is something seasoned MPs could tell you...



"Per-category ratio", recent Winnipesaukee history would argue against the previous assertion—not to mention that the "violations" to victims were mortal violations:

1. Wolfeboro —Donzi— 1 Victim
2. Diamond Is. —Formula— 1 Victim
3. Meredith —Baja— 1 Victim
4. Gilford —Cigarette— 3 Victims

How about you list the rest of the "categories".
Sailboats
Canoes
Kayaks
Pontoon boats
PWCs
etc

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by ApS

Don't ask the Newbie MPs...



What follows is something seasoned MPs could tell you...



"Per-category ratio", recent Winnipesaukee history would argue against the previous assertion—not to mention that the "violations" to victims were mortal violations:

1. Wolfeboro —Donzi— 1 Victim
2. Diamond Is. —Formula— 1 Victim
3. Meredith —Baja— 1 Victim
4. Gilford —Cigarette— 3 Victims

As Chip said, how about the rest of the categories/victims? Just as a start, how about this one? Laconia - wakeboarding (probably not a performance boat) 1 victim

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/index...d-boataccident

Or this one: Gilford - Chaparral (collided with a Formula) - 4 victims

http://www.lowellsun.com/news/ci_235...h-that-hurt?so

APS, you can try spinning this all you want to mold it "your way" but getting back on the point of the original statement: there are few violations incurred by performance boaters.

[LIforrelaxin]

The truth of the mater is we can all find information to support our cause...

But if we look at the comprehensive statistic over the course of time is when we see the real picture.

I suggest reading some of these reports:

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...tatistics.aspx

These aren't some looking for support for their cause, but rather nation wide statistics provide by the coast guard... These are FACT....

Most importantly what I noted, after breezing through these is that smaller boats under 25' are the most prone to accidents... not the 25' to 35' high performance boats, that people seem to think don't have a place on the lake....

By the nature of economics bigger boats are more expensive... which means when you lay down the cash for a bigger boat, you are more likely to know what you are doing, as you don't want to make a foolish investment.

This summer I have had more issue, with bow riders and jet skis then I have any other type of boat... but I am not out trying to get them banned....

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The truth of the mater is we can all find information to support our cause...

But if we look at the comprehensive statistic over the course of time is when we see the real picture.

I suggest reading some of these reports:

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...tatistics.aspx

These aren't some looking for support for their cause, but rather nation wide statistics provide by the coast guard... These are FACT....

Most importantly what I noted, after breezing through these is that smaller boats under 25' are the most prone to accidents... not the 25' to 35' high performance boats, that people seem to think don't have a place on the lake....

By the nature of economics bigger boats are more expensive... which means when you lay down the cash for a bigger boat, you are more likely to know what you are doing, as you don't want to make a foolish investment.

This summer I have had more issue, with bow riders and jet skis then I have any other type of boat... but I am not out trying to get them banned....

I agree with most of this...but not with the belief that people who buy the most expensive boats "know what they're doing"
I am amazed at the number of large, expensive boats that fly through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the markers in front of my house. How can you spend over 100 grand on a boat and not bother to either look at a chart or know what the rules are. Money does not equal brains.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

I agree with most of this...but not with the belief that people who buy the most expensive boats "know what they're doing"
I am amazed at the number of large, expensive boats that fly through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the markers in front of my house. How can you spend over 100 grand on a boat and not bother to either look at a chart or know what the rules are. Money does not equal brains.

It's only the large, expensive boats that do this? Not the jet skis, not the bow riders, not the pontoon boats, not the bass boats, etc.

[Chaselady]

There are a lot of bad drivers out on the lake. I was trying to make the point that just because someone is driving an expensive boat doesn't guarantee they know what they're doing.

[BroadHopper]

Just because you have tons of money does not mean you can do what you pleased. Trouble is a number of well to do does just that. And these people have no common sense. For instant I know of MacMansion owners that have Prius or other hybrid cars in their driveway with a gas guzzler parked next to it. Often times they use the gas guzzler around town instead of the Prius. What is heck did they buy the Prius for? Status symbol.

These same Macmansion owners have their landscapers fertilize the lawn after hours so that they can use harmful to the environment chemicals. What they do this for? Country club lawns are a status quo.

I can go on and on but this is just a start, along with their boating etiquette.

[Orion]

It's unbelievable how many threads just degenerate into a stereotyping slugfest.
It's THIS kind of boat....
It's the PROPERTY OWNERS.....
it's these people from [blank].......
It's the ISLAND property owners......
It's the big houses......
It's the new houses........
It's the weekenders.....
It's the full timers.....

Huh? How can ANYONE make a global statement about ANY of these groups? Nobody knows what prior experience, sacrifices, hard work, or training anyone's undergone to get what they have? Can't we all just get along? There are idiots in EVERY category. There are also great people in every category. And, I think the members of this forum generally fall into the latter group. We can do better.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Orion

How can ANYONE make a global statement about ANY of these groups? Nobody knows what prior experience, sacrifices, hard work, or training anyone's undergone to get what they have?

This is easy to answer.... because it is always easiest to target a group of people, and blame them for everything we don't like......

Then to accept the fact that the human race by nature is flawed.... we all make bad judgement calls from time to time....

Because the bottom line is no one is perfect....

But people don't know how to except that FACT.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Orion

It's unbelievable how many threads just degenerate into a stereotyping slugfest.
It's THIS kind of boat....
It's the PROPERTY OWNERS.....
it's these people from [blank].......
It's the ISLAND property owners......
It's the big houses......
It's the new houses........
It's the weekenders.....
It's the full timers.....

Huh? How can ANYONE make a global statement about ANY of these groups? Nobody knows what prior experience, sacrifices, hard work, or training anyone's undergone to get what they have? Can't we all just get along? There are idiots in EVERY category.

There are also great people in every category..

• All our boaters are "Above-Average Boaters"?



...and you forgot BMW drivers...



• Besides the controversial Restaurant Forum, the "Lake Issues" forum evolved for the following reason:



(So, we CAN talk about this issue)

• Getting back to the "violations" issue, there certainly will be more violations written for 13-foot sailboats lacking registration decals: small boats in general—are easy targets—and don't involve a second- or third- NHMP patrol boat to round them up.

Originally Posted by chipj29

How about listing the rest of the "categories".
Sailboats
Canoes
Kayaks
Pontoon boats
PWCs
etc

• With the possible exception of Jet-Skis and Pontoon boats, the others listed are not responsible for the violations that are of a criminal nature.

(e.g., "Leaving the Scene of an Injury or Death").

• The vast number of "violations" written by the NHMP are violations of "Civil-Law".

(No jail time).
_____________________________________________

I actually have come to like pontoon boats.

• They leave scarcely any wake—certainly welcome on a lake that now suffers from heavy erosion.

• With no foredeck to block the view ahead, they allow a proper view for a "Keeping a Proper Watch".

• Few outboard engines are noisy.

• Pontoon boats of any size can tow skiers or tubes without capsizing others enjoying the lake.

(Faces and boat numbers—redacted)

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

I agree with most of this...but not with the belief that people who buy the most expensive boats "know what they're doing"
I am amazed at the number of large, expensive boats that fly through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the markers in front of my house. How can you spend over 100 grand on a boat and not bother to either look at a chart or know what the rules are. Money does not equal brains.

If you are going to quote me don't take a snipet.... I stated

which means when you lay down the cash for a bigger boat, you are more likely to know what you are doing, as you don't want to make a foolish investment.

This doesn't imply that every person that own a big boat knows what they are doing... Certainly some people make the investment and shouldn't.... But no more so then you find with any other boats size...

Now what you have to stop and think about is what are the contributing factors to there being so many accidents with boats up to 25'

One of the biggest factors is the shear volume of boats in that size category...

my guess is if you looked at the percentage of accidents do to inexperience and lack of regard for rules, percentage wise boat size doesn't matter.....

The bottom line is people have associated reckless behavior in boating with a particular style of boat.... And that needs to stop... no boat is any more reckless or then any other style of boat...

What is reckless is the people operating the boats...

People need to stop pointing fingers at the style of boats, and realize what the problem is.......