Too quiet? Too loud?

[ApS]

When my head hit the pillow last night, the neighborhood was still setting off rockets and other fireworks.

However, at exactly 2:38AM, I was awakened by a loud, droning boat in The Broads.

There's a half-mile of granite, clay, and forest between The Broads and my cottage! Was it noise -- or the relative silence after fireworks?

'Course, my windows were open. Anybody else notice?

.

[fpartri497]

aps:

poor you ! being woken up by that loud boat I will happilly trade locations with you anytime.



fpartri497

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Sorry about that APS, I stayed out later than I was expecting.

[ApS]

No...pretty certain it's not RG.

Since I pour my first cuppacoffee at dawn, it didn't really bother me, but an over-loud, oversized, white/maroon/white boat toured the lake this morning [Friday] at 6AM.

No consideration for lake residents convalescing from illness? (Such as my own family has experienced here). They have a right to unbroken sleep -- which is sometimes their only respite from suffering.

Originally Posted by fpartri497

aps: poor you ! being woken up by that loud boat I will happilly trade locations with you anytime.

Why is that?

Webster Lake is a "tradeable location" -- right in Concord's back yard.

Concord, The Home to our Legislators, has...oops...forgot...

Webster Lake is in trouble, and the Legislature is doing little to fix it.

Never mind.

[Woodsy]

APS...

The only "RIGHTS" we have as citizens of the United States are those guaranteed by the Constitution of The United States of America. These rights are then expounded upon by the Constitution of the State of New Hampshire. Everything else is a personal freedom. Personal freedoms are subject to restriction and revocation.

Unfortunately you do not have a "RIGHT" to unbroken sleep. You have a reasonable expectation. There are no time limits for when someone can use the lake. I agree that both boaters in this instance were inconsiderate to say the least. At 2am or 6am when all is quiet and the ambient noise very low, any noise will seem loud and obrutrusive even a perfectly legal exhaust. There is a noise statute, and maybe that needs some revision. Perhaps the new switchable exhausts should be discussed.

Woodsy

[feb]

I grew up on Webster Lake....what is going wrong with it? Just curious.

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

an over-loud, oversized, white/maroon/white boat toured the lake this morning [Friday] at 6AM.

If you took that same boat, put in on a trailer in your yard, put the ear-muffs on it and ran it at 6 am it would certainly be considered disturbing the peace. Why isn't it when the boat is in the water? Seriously, what's the difference?

Many years ago I rented a cottage on a cove for 3 weeks. Every morning at 6 the inconsiderate people across the cove would start up their Sutphen (through the hull exhausts pointed directly at our cottage), warm it up for 5 minutes at high RPM, then blast off to get coffee. The sound of it starting up was so shocking my kids would wake up screaming and it no doubt disturbed hundreds of other vacationers who were hoping to sleep later than 6. This really ruined our vacation and created lots of stress and frustration in my household. One of my guests was so sick of being shaken out of bed they confronted the owner when they saw the boat docked at Meredith. The response? "Hey, we look forward to this all year". They really didn't see the problem and were at it again the next morning.

I just don't get why people aren't embarrassed to disturb so many people. It must be how you are raised. When I take my small boat (IO, through the prop exhaust) out early I don't even start it until the lines are untied so I can quickly move away with a minimum of noise. I'll run at idle until I'm several hundred feet away. Even then I'm always concerned that I may have disturbed someone.

Sorry to rant but very noisy boats are my pet peave.

[Cruiser]

This is exactly why silent choice or captians choice shoulod be legal.
It doesen't insure that inconsiderate people would use it, but I know I would like to be able to be quiet pulling up for fuel, or comming home after dark.

[TomC]

See that's the thing about pet peeves.. only the peev-ee cares and loses sleep [literally in your case] over the issue.. the peev-er couldn't care less. Just like the thread yesterday about the jet ski on a dock that could hold a longer boat... the operator was legal and that was the end of his thought process.

Meanwhile all the people with peeves need the 55 gallon drum of Mylanta... what's wrong with this picture?

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Cruiser

This is exactly why silent choice or captians choice should be legal.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't captain's choice let you switch between legal (muffled) and illegal (straight through). The idea of the law against this is you should never have the option of switching to "illegal". I don't think the options are "quiet" and "quieter"

[Cal]

APS,
Sorry you can't have everything your way all the time. I'll trade you my neighbors dog for your boat sounds any day .

[Woodsy]

Boater...

Captains Call or Quick & Quiet does let you switch. But if you have mufflers on your thru hull exhaust, it just makes it that much quieter... they should revisit the max db limit, and allow switchable exhaust. As a matter of fact, Merrill Faye sells some of his Chapparalls that way, even though the switch is technically illegal.

There is no boat on the lake that is legal with straight thru non muffled exhaust. The key being legal. Some of the loudest boats on the lake have some sort of muffler, its just that the mufflers really don't do much to muffle anything. So I am saying, revisit the MAX db loudness, set an absolute maximum the boat cannot exceed, then allow switchable to quiet the boat down from there.

Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Cal

APS,
Sorry you can't have everything your way all the time. I'll trade you my neighbors dog for your boat sounds any day .

OK...You gotta deal. I'll take the dog.

But what are you going to do with 30 noisy boats?

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

OK...You gotta deal. I'll take the dog.

But what are you going to do with 30 noisy boats?

30 noisey boats?
Enjoy the fact I have waterfront property in one of the most beautiful places on earth.

If it were only so easy

[snowbird]

Saw a Donzi with straight through, VERY LOUD, dual exhausts being launched and retrieved at Glendale yesterday. Point of this observation is merely that, even at Glendale, where the Marine Patrol is headquartered, enforcement of the law is problematic.

[parrothead]

I don't understand this law either. There are boats of all sizes with through hull exhaust on the lake. Now given the opportunity to switch to "quieter" mode when coming into shore, or at night seems to me like it would be a good thing. Some boats come from the factory with these switches as standard equipment and sold to consumers in NH where it is illegal. Removing the switch to make your boat "legal" can be expensive, and if caught with the switch you can be fined as well. Meanwhile there are boats with through hull exhaust only that get to go on their merry way. And these boats definately excede the 82 db level at 50 feet, but there is no way to easily modify them to through prop, so they are not hassled. My father and I got stopped while going headway speed by a Marine Patrol boat. Now the boat is a Sea Ray bowrider that came from the factory with the switch. When the officer stopped us he said that he could tell the boat exceded the 82 db level by listening to it. As we were sitting there with the officer two offshores came by with the through hull exhausts, that were much louder than our boat. These two boats went into Meredith bay floated around for a few minutes and then came back out. By that time the MP officer was done with us and had moved back to floating near the no wake sign in front of the town docks. The offshores came by the MP boat at headway speed and then went up on plane and headed down the bay. The MP boat never moved, my Dad and I waited there for a few minutes to see what would happen. We couldn't understand why the MP offecer would pick us over the these other obviously louder boats. We got off with a warning about the switch and the marina disconnected the switch at no charge, and then my Dad had to go and have the decible level of the boat checked, or he would have been fined. So why if the MP is enforcing the decible levels, do they seem to do it selectively? And was the stop more about a suspicion that we had the switch than the decible level? If that is the case then this law seems ridiculous.

[BroadHopper]

I observe this at a number of boat launch. Glendale and Meredith have officers making sure people have the permits to launch, but thay don't enforce the marine laws. I have seen the MP walk over from HQ to check out the loud boats at Glendale. Most of the time they will tell them that it is illegal and that they cannot use the boat in the water. If there is a dispute, the MP will give them a date for a decibel test. And let them go! Jeez. The boat owner is only there for the day. You think they will bother to come back for the decibel test if they are only up for the day????
I also notice that during the initial inspection, they will poke their stick up the pipes. If they hit something than they assume there is a muffler. That is bizarre! Any boatowner knows that there are flaps in the pipes to prevent water from entering the engines.
I also notice when they ask the boatowner to open the engine hatch to inspect the pipes, they never say anything about the captain's call setup! Do they know what the switchable setups look like??? It is obvious.
One NH dealer told me and my buddy that the Corsa quick and quiet (I think that was the name) has an automatic setup so that when the backpressure is low the exhaust goes through the outdrive. When the backpressure gets to a certain level, it diverts the exhaust to the transom. He said it was against the law to have a manual switch. The automatic switch is fine. I guess everyone finds a loophole.

[Woodsy]

Yes the MP's know what a switchable exhaust looks like. I have had them crawl thru the engine compartment looking for them. My old Donzi 18 Classic had muffled exhaust tips (no switchable) and it passed the db test... When I purchased my 22 Classic, it didn't have thru hulls at all, you should have seen the looks I got with that boat... screaming yellow paint and no noise. I am looking at a 26ZX Donzi that does have the muffled exhaust tips and the switchable exhaust (its a used boat), and I will disconnect it as the law requires. It too will pass the db test. Here is a link to the Corsa Performance website. http://www.corsaperf.com/marine.htm There are more than a few different ways to quiet down boats.

The problem is that measuring sound accurately is very difficult. Look at the hoops they jumped thru on motorcycles, and somehow they got a 106db limit! YIKES! Thats pretty darn loud.

My solution would be to require all boats with thru hull exhaust to have mufflers. Keep the same db max and allow switchable exhausts. There can be some exceptions to the rule, as alot of the classic older wooden boats did not have mufflers. But essentially, if its fiberglass it should be muffled somewhat. There are enough muffler choices out there!

Woodsy

Now, if the Marine Patrol were funded better, they could convert one of bigger buildings into a sound lab for accurately testing noise emissions.

[Orion]

Woodsy, I applaud your decision to opt for a quiet fast boat. Seems that a clear majority of people are annoyed by loud boats. The advantages of straight through exhaust are negligible unless one is actually in a boat race.

I don't believe we need a DB meter or even a numeric limit to determine if a boat is loud or not. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not if it is annoying and agitating to most people who are just trying to relax on this beautiful mountain lake. Can someone explain to me why anyone would prefer a loud boat to a normal boat. Is it mereley total disregard for your fellow man?

[Woodsy]

Orion...

When all is quiet, say 3am or so, noise can carry quite a distance over water. So even a legal boat would be annoyingly loud. The reason we need a number is because noise levels are very subjective. What might annoy one person doesn't seem to bother another person. The hard part is actually measuring sound realistically. The problem with the system is, you are given an appt to go get a sound test. So some of the more unscroupulous types change thier exhaust just for the noise test. If the MP's were able to do the test, right then you might get better enforcement. Alot of people don't think thier boat is that loud... mostly because the exhaust exits out the back, and they are not getting the full volume of the noise created...

The MP's do a great job with the funding level they are given. Perhaps if they were funded better, they could actually do a "Noise Roadblock". Pull over a loud exhaust boat, and then have him drive to the test area and test him right then! Then there would be no questions... pass or fail...

Woodsy

[ART]

Acres Per Second...Based on this and previous posts that I have read by you I conclude that you do not care for high performance boats: their noise, their speeds, and I am beginning to think...their drivers.

I own a small 22' high performance boat. It is fast and it is loud. I drive it as a way to relax, sometimes fast sometimes slow. It is no louder then the beautifully restored old woodies that cruise the lakes. Point is different strokes for different folks. May I suggest ear plugs?

[video tours NE]

I agree with Acres. I`m very annoyed by the boaters who operate these annoying machines without any regard for others who come to enjoy some peace and relaxation on the lake.
I think most loud boaters have a similar mentality as loud motorcyclists.
They enjoy all the attention they get. That`s really what it`s all about, let's be honest. Ego.
When bikers cruise into a conjested area and start revving and torqueing their engines, it`s for one reason only: to get reactions from people. To look tough, cool, important.
The other day I was at NASWA listening to a guitarist singing while having a beer with friends. A huge cigarette boat started up at the docks and the owner decided to sit there for an entire song, warming it up, revving it .. Ugh ! My friends and I couldn`t talk and we could barely hear the guitarist. Everyone sitting there turned to see who this jerk was, annoyed, wondering "when is that darn boat gonna leave !"
When he finally pulled away, we could talk again without yelling at each other. But that grating sound lingered until he got around the bend into Paugus Bay.
I appreciate a boater (or biker) who keeps his "noise" respectable, especially in crowded areas.
We shouldn`t have to carry earplugs, Art.
I think the MP should find a way to conduct these Db tests on the spot and issue tickets right then and there. Unless there are political reasons, I don`t see why the MP can`t get these laws enforced fairly.

Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for listening.
---------------------------

[Boater]

Originally Posted by ART

different strokes for different folks. May I suggest ear plugs?

Very funny ART, WE all should wear ear plugs instead of YOU quieting down YOUR admittedly loud boat? That's a good one.

I have to repeat Orion's question; "Is it merely total disregard for your fellow man?" I think so.

[BroadHopper]

It is funny how those with antiques and classic boats get sucked into the mud. I have a classic Liberator. In the days before the decibel laws many beautiful wooden, antique and classic boats were built with staright through exhaust. Straight throughs have been a part of boating before we were born!!!!!!!!! I'd say we were here first!
Since the decibel laws hit the book, the majority of antique, and classic boat owners have purchased and use bafflers to uphold the law. But evidently this is not enough to satisfy a few people who wants the serenity of a mountain pond. If they want utter quietness they are on the wrong lake!
I'll be damn if I have to destroy the beauty of my classic by putting on an io or something to get the dam exhaust underwater. Seems like they rather pollute the water with carbon dioxide from the engines rather than the air.

[Woodsy]

I know Art's boat.... it will pass the db test no problem. The exhaust goes both thru the hull (muffled tips) and thru the propeller. It sounds like a nice corvette....

Woodsy

[Orion]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Straight throughs have been a part of boating before we were born!!!!!!!!! I'd say we were here first!.

Ah.....I think the canoes were here first, but that's just a guess.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Since the decibel laws hit the book, the majority of antique, and classic boat owners have purchased and use bafflers to uphold the law. But evidently this is not enough to satisfy a few people who wants the serenity of a mountain pond. .

I'm thinking there's more than a "few" people annoyed.

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

If they want utter quietness they are on the wrong lake!

.....well someone is. Should we take a vote?

[video tours NE]

It`s actually Carbon Monoxide in the exhaust, not dioxide.

[ART]

My boat would most definitely pass all Winni noise laws and I am delighted about this fact. I have a 2001 Donzi Classic boat and nothing has been done to alter the sound to make it louder or quieter. Some see the throaty sound of an engine (boat, car, motorcycle) as heavenly while others see it as annoying. I am a professional musician and in general I prefer noise to silence. Some of my favorite 'noises' on the lake are the sound of the V8 in my boat, the sound of my paddle entering the water from my canoe, the sound of my sail boat's hull as it works it's way through the chop.

My 'ear plugs' remark was meant in jest because to me people's negative remarks about high performance boats is getting old on this site. If you do not like the 'noise' and you are anywhere on Lake Winni then you are in the wrong place. High performance boats, classic woodies, sea planes, motorcycles are all here to stay and to me that is a good thing.

[BroadHopper]

Actually I find the planes and jets that are coming in and out of the laconia and wolfboro airports quite annoying. Shall we ban those too? Let shut down the airports.

[Orion]

BH, I was not proposing banning fast boats, just recommending that, for the betterment of the Lake and enjoyment of more people that the owners consider quieting them down. They can still go just about as fast and see all the great sites, all without annoying those around them. Is that really so much to ask?

[Woodsy]

I interpreted BroadHoppers post a little differently.

Basically, since the settlement of Lake Winnipesaukee, it has been a working mans noisy lake. Lake Winnipesaukee has never been "peaceful" or "tranquil" with the exception being the north side of the lake. So yes, if you want peaceful or tranquil, you need to be on the north side of Lake Winni, as the south side has always been "noisy".

In days past there was the clunk and rattle of the steam locomotives coming and going at all hours, spewing massive quantities of steam and soot from all the coal being burned. The grand old steamships of yore had the same issues, lots of noise & soot. If people are twisted over a lone boat in the broads at 2am, I would imagine they would have hated the steam locomotive era...

Then came the golden age of boats, lots of beautiful wooden boats with more HP than some of todays boats, no mufflers and and some seriously loud exhaust. I am sure people didn't like them either...

The next evolution of boats was the outboards.... remember the early 70's on the lake? These are my first memories of being here, the smell of two stroke oil and the blue haze just above the water from all the exhaust is a still a vivid memory. I am sure people complained back then of a noisy outboard revving high, screaming across the lake at 2:00am as well. But progress marches on...

Then came the late 70's and early 80's when Miami Vice was the theme... Lots of really loud boats running dry exhaust with no mufflers at all... Less two stroke haze, but lots more noise.... probably the noisiest time on the lake! Dry exhaust at 2:00 am would sound like a top fuel dragster.... YIKES!

In the late 80's boats finally started to quiet down some. Dry exhaust was all but illegal due to sound legislation, and boats were getting alot quieter and reliable.

Today most boats are pretty quiet, and thats a good thing. The downside is that because the majority are quiet, the few loud ones really stand out like a sore thumb, even if they are in compliance with the current noise statutes.

The thing people seem to be missing these days is courtesy. There is no way to legislate that.

Woodsy

[Orion]

Woodsy,
That's a well thought out and well put response, but all the examples you cited were driven by the available technology at the time and were not noisy by choice, but by necessity. Today we have a choice. If one chooses noisy over quiet, then clearly they are doing so with little or no regard for the annoyance of others. If we can all enjoy the lake while minimizing the impact on others, we'll all be better off. That's all I wanted to say.

[BroadHopper]

I agree with Orion, The antique and classic boats were from another era where choices and necesity were different. But I and the majority of old boat lovers 'updated' our classics with mufflers and or bafflers. I never had anyone say anything bad about my low decibel rumble.
Just like people flock to the car shows to hear the the sweet sound of a V8. What is music in one's ear may be annoying to another. Bach's may be sweet to one's ear but Aerosmith is sweet to another. America is about choice, freedom of choice, whether it is religion, or culture.
As for the new boats, I agree some of them were quite annoying. They are must louder than my classic and I agree it is not necesary and discourteous. But what can you do? We live in a free country and our constitution allows us freedom of choice as well as speach.

I rest my case.

[Lakewinniboater]

I would agree whole heartedly. Although, I don't particularly LIKE the loud exhausts.... I believe in the freedoms that we have as Americans!

So, unfortunately, when you believe in this country the way that I do there are times that you have to grin and bear.

I wouldn't particularly like being woken up by a loud boat. However, I am sure it isn't an everyday occurrance. Therefore, you need to understand that when in this area or a developed area, you will not have complete quiet.

Hope for the best that's all and don't let those that are inconsiderate make you angry. If you become annoyed or angry..... THEY WIN. It is a momentary annoyance... forget it and move on. Think about the freedoms that we enjoy and I am sure it all weighs out to be a good thing.

[Boater]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

We live in a free country and our constitution allows us freedom of choice as well as speach.

Then why can't you run straight exhausts in your car and drive 100 mph down 93?

This is NOT about constitutional rights. If you tried to argue before a court that the right to have an excessively loud boat is free speach I think you'd be laughed out.

What can you do?

Make and enforce laws.

[Lakewinniboater]

Originally Posted by Boater

Make and enforce laws.

How do you enforce the laws without a well funded and more ample Marine Patrol?

That is why some of the other lakes that instituted a SPEED LIMIT are now passing legislature to get rid of the speed limit. They couldn't enforce it.

We need to have MORE Marine Patrol to enforce what we have in place NOW. Not give them another law to TRY to enforce with MINIMAL resources.

This is a point that many on the lake have been trying to get through to others for quite some time now. Most of us don't really care to go over 45 mph..... however, we are for safety.

Safety, however, will not be gotten by simply instituing ANY new laws. It is in enforcing and educating the pulic on the current laws. If THAT doesn't work then re-visit what can be done after that.

Back to sound..... it is discourtious....however, a simply meeting in the middle would be the switch that was discussed.

All of these discussions I believe, could be fixed by a meeting in the MIDDLE. Why get so angry. Why spend so much money on being the group that is RIGHT..... no one is RIGHT.... it is all opinions.

Pool the money and do research ON FACTS and DATA. Then come to a reasonable solution.

[Woodsy]

I often wonder why some people compare boats to cars? You simply cannot compare the two. I can only assume the reason is lack of education or understanding. They are two completely different vehicles and are governed by two completely different sets of rules & regulations.

We have speed limits on our roadways because they are relatively narrow and one cannot see for great distances. On the roads, you have two vehicles heading in exactly opposite directions, with a rate of closure that can be at the minimum 60mph, (both cars traveling 30mph) and can be as high as 130mph (both cars traveling 65mph), passing each other with 4' to 5' of separation within a relatively narrow marked lane with limited visibility due to hills and corners. In most cases here in New England you can see less than 1/2 mile ahead of you. Just off the side of those roadways there are lots of immovable objects like trees and buildings. Thier are also people walking not 6' from where your 5000+ lb car is traveling 30mph. (I won't get into the bicyclists)

When you are out on Lake Winnipesaukee, your visibility is measured in miles... its completely flat, there are very few places on the lake where your view is at all obstructed. You are NOT required to travel within narrow marked lanes. There is absolutely no need for a boat to be within 150' of any other boat.

Boating navigation is pretty simple, and just requires you to remember a few simple rules...

1. If you are getting passed, you are the stand on boat. it is the other boats responsibility to pass you safely. However, while he is overtaking you, you are required to not make any sudden course corrections. It is recommended you hold steady on your course.

2. If a boat is passing from your port to starboard (left to right) he is the give way vessel. You are required to maintain course, he is supposed to navigate around you. At night you would see his GREEN light, (you go) and he your RED light (he stops)

3. If a boat is passing from your starboard to your port (right to left) You are the give way vessel. You are required to change course and navigate around the other boat. At night you would see his RED light, (you stop) and he your GREEN light (he goes)

An easy reminder I has as a kid was a couple of pieces of colored tape, red & green. all I had to do was look at the tape, to figure out what ROW rule applied.

4. Always yield to sailboat under sail or a less manueverable vessel (tugboat/barge)

5. You are responsible for safety of your boat at all times, regardless of the rules of navigation. When in doubt of the other boats intentions, change course, slow down or come to a complete stop. This rule trumps all of the above rules!


6. Do your best to stay 150' away from everything.... when in distance is in doubt, slow down.

I really don't see why people have such a hard time with the rules of navigation. They are pretty simple. I really think it boils down to a complete lack of education.

Bear Islander, one of the most vocal people here about rules violations, lack of courtesy, need a speed limit etc, let someone without any safe boater education drive his boat. The excuse given was "The operator was old enough not to need a certificate" Apparantly the operator wasn't informed of the rules & regulations of boat operation here on Lake Winnipesaukee by the owner of the boat! Just because a certificate is not yet required by law, doesn't mean you should not get one ASAP. I wonder what your insurance company would have said if your boat collided with your dock? The picture seems to show a near miss.

Bear Islander also stated "Everybody else (non educated?) can use the 15HP aluminum, the canoe or the pedal boat". How is it that you can let anyone without their safe boaters certificate use the 15hp Aluminum? It is subject to the same rules of operation as any other boat.

Bear Islander, I am not picking on you... no really! I am just using your own posted pictures and posts to illustrate a very important point. I am sure you are not the only one who has let someone use thier boat who hadn't had any formal boater education. I'll bet it happens quite a bit.

Boater education WORKS!

Woodsy

[rickstr66]

I understand APS point but remember boat noise is part of "doing buisiness" living on a big lake. If you buy a house next to a highway you have to expect traffic noise, next to a park, people noise, next to a pig farm. stinky air. People need to accept the fact that boats make noise and on any given day or night you might be disturbed for 1-2 minutes by this byproduct of living on a lake. Count your blessings I would trade places with you lakefront property owners in a heartbeat

[islandAl]

By Woodsy
How is it that you can let anyone without their safe boaters certificate use the 15hp Aluminum? It is subject to the same rules of operation as any other boat.

I beleive that the requirements for the certificate start at over 25 hp. All the same rules of operation apply so???

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

4. Always yield to sailboat under sail or a less manueverable vessel (tugboat/barge)

While always yielding to a sailboat under sail is a good practice, there are circumstances where you do not have to.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Bear Islander, I am not picking on you... no really! I am just using your own posted pictures and posts to illustrate a very important point. I am sure you are not the only one who has let someone use thier boat who hadn't had any formal boater education. I'll bet it happens quite a bit.

Bear Islander's boat has less than 25HP. IslandAl is right.

The operator does not require certification. That information is printed on every boater's registration form.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Boater education WORKS!

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!

Now...who's going to teach us?

[Lakewinniboater]

I am sure what Woodsy meant is that "why would he let anyone without a cert. use the 15hp boat."

As far as I am concerned if it is safety we are really after here...... then don't let anyone under 16 and without a cert use ANY water craft.

However, it isn't illegal to let anyone that isn't educated to use a watercraft that is under 25hp.

[Woodsy]

Sorry...

What I meant was, the 15HP aluminum is subject to the same rules for operation and navigation as the larger boats. I know you are not required to have a safety cert to operate a boat under 25hp. Judging by statistics though, they might want to rethink that rule... Just because you are not required to have a boater safety cert, doesn't mean you shouldn't get one.

On another note, it was not my intention to single out Bear Islander. My point was that if someone who is such a stickler for the rules & regs as he seems to be, has someone he lent a boat to fracture a few rules, then it can happen to anyone. It was by no means meant to pillorie Bear Islander. I may disagree with him about the speed limit, but I do certainly respect him as a person!

Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by rickstr66

"...remember boat noise is part of "doing business" living on a big lake. If you buy a house next to a highway you have to expect traffic noise, next to a park, people noise, next to a pig farm. stinky air. People need to accept the fact that boats make noise and on any given day or night you might be disturbed for 1-2 minutes by this byproduct of living on a lake. Count your blessings I would trade places with you lakefront property owners in a heartbeat

You'd make a "sound decision" rather than a "decision in sound"? I bought an Apache runabout, but AFTER I bought my place. [Bought back -- bankruptcy court]

When my grandparents built in Tuftonboro, there was no electric service in the town. When my family built my present lakefront dwelling, there was no Interstate in New Hampshire. (In a sense, however, I-93 has been brought to my dock.)

There may not have been laws regarding noisy boats back then -- and none were needed: there weren't that many boats that were noisy. A loud, noisy boat might have been a welcome 1- or 2- minute distraction back then -- as it usually is -- to children.

My neighbor Bill always impressed us with the fastest boat on the water. His first was a 14-foot open aluminum boat with the biggest outboard that would fit -- probably a 45 or 50. He was quite a sight: His back pressed against the motor's front, the outboard tiller tucked into his elbow to steer, and his ankles crossed atop the middle seat. Sometime in the 80's he bought another very fast boat — an inboard which was much louder — maybe 84-86 dB.

It's still operating right now -- four doors away, and whatever muffler baffles it had when new, are long-gone today. (And any warning signal-device for a small boat would never be heard above the noise). I'm reminded of the warning device presently...as there are a number of children playing nearby — one of whom is playing "Jingle Bells" on a one-note whistle. Nobody minds "the people noise" you refer to when it comes to children having fun at/under the dock.

If I had been an adult when Lake Winnipesaukee was a-growin', I would have been more vocal about lakewater quality, pollution, parking lot runoff, milfoil, development, land-clearing, permit enforcement, "feral" boaters, and the fact that I have to wash my hands of algae when I handle the mooring line today. (BTW, Webster Lake has a poison cyanobacteria problem — analogous to the "red tide" of the ocean).

Sometime in the mid-80's, we lost control.

I'm especially distressed at the MP Director's poorly-advised statement some months ago that he couldn't enforce a new law. Existing laws are dismissed, ignored, or forgotten — and certainly ill-enforced.

The attitude that "We Bring Big Money to Winnipesaukee" doesn't impress me at all. All of us should be stewards of the lake. Some of us can even reach the water's surface to recover "lost" cans and bottles.

We were doing just fine without the noise — a pollution-byproduct that nobody's ear can escape while exercising our American right to "The Pursuit of Happiness".

"Feral" boats are to a family-friendly Lake Winnipesaukee what Jerry Springer is to family entertainment. Thanks, at least, for not throwing chairs.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I'm especially distressed at the MP Director's poorly-advised statement some months ago that he couldn't enforce a new law. Existing laws are dismissed, ignored, or forgotten — and certainly ill-enforced.

APS....

You are really good at taking things out of context. Director Barrett has said time and again that if any new laws are passed he will do his best to enforce them. The problem he has is funding. You simply cannot be expected to enforce every rule & regulation on a shoestring budget. Plain and simple. The existing laws ARE enforced, not dismissed, not ignored or forgotten. The MP do thier best given the level of funding they get from the legislature.


Woodsy

[MovieStar]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Loud boats? Come on. If a loud boat is your biggest problem of the day, count yourself lucky. There are far worse things in the world to deal with. There are people (millions of people) who don't know where or when they are going to get their next meal. It's easy to roll your eyes at my comments and simply dismiss them without a second thought but really, think about it for a second and then honestly tell me I'm wrong. Thank the Lord above that you are lucky enough to hear such a trivial problem. Besides it could be worse, you could have to fight through L.A. traffic everyday.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

"Feral" boats are to a family-friendly Lake Winnipesaukee what Jerry Springer is to family entertainment. Thanks, at least, for not throwing chairs.

Now that is an idea. I'm calling Jerry Springer and see if I can get APS and others on the show. Hopefully we won't get into the chairs slinging act

[Orion]

MovieStar,
You should count yourself lucky to have a car and the ability to put gas in it and not complain about the traffic in LA! If that's your biggest problem you should count YOURSELF lucky.

[MovieStar]

Oh I am very Lucky. I'm greatful for that I've been given.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by MovieStar

Ladies and Gentlemen. Loud boats? Come on. If a loud boat is your biggest problem of the day, count yourself lucky. There are far worse things in the world to deal with. There are people (millions of people) who don't know where or when they are going to get their next meal. It's easy to roll your eyes at my comments and simply dismiss them without a second thought but really, think about it for a second and then honestly tell me I'm wrong. Thank the Lord above that you are lucky enough to hear such a trivial problem. Besides it could be worse, you could have to fight through L.A. traffic everyday.

OK, I need help with this logic. Millions of people are starving so I should just live with obnoxiously loud boats? Come on now, I've thought about it and you're wrong. Problems fester and grow when you "ignore" them. Why there have been posts on this site where its apparent people think everyone else enjoys their loud boat and still probably think excessive noise (beyond the NH legal limit) doesn't bother anyone. Others post that switches should be allowed when you are in the Broads, the problem with that is that hundreds, if not over a thousand households are directly exposed to this noise, not a problem at legal levels but obnoxious at straight pipe levels. Its terrible that people are still starving in this day and age, but don't tell me to put up with excessive noise and smile because of it. Furthermore, loud boats are against the law.

[KonaChick]

In theory MovieStar is correct in saying we should all feel lucky to be able to be a part of Lake Winni and stop complaining about the loud boat noise. In reality though those complaining don't stop and think "Gee, it's 2 a.m. and that's the 3rd time that GFBL boat has woken me and my family from a sound sleep this week..oh well..there are plenty of children starving in Calcutta so what am I complaining about!" They're thinking how hard they work all week to be able to enjoy a little peace and quiet on the weekends, they're thinking why should something you enjoy doing at 2 a.m. ruin my quality of life, they're thinking about their children and the amount of sleep they've missed that night and how they will be miserable the next day..the list goes on. So while we all should probably be doing a little less complaining about this issue, I can understand the emotions involved and why folks feel so passionately about this issue.

[Woodsy]

People on both sides of the issue need to have some respect for the other side. At 2am any loud noise will be aggravating, but people don't have the right to absolute quiet.... When you live on an island, you are essentially living on the side of a roadway. Some roads are busier than others. Occasionaly a loud 18 wheeler is going to go by your house late at night. Not too much your going to do about it, especially if the 18 wheeler is legal.

I really think 98% of the boats with thru hulls are legally muffled. The problem is at 2am, even a "legal" boat can be essentially too loud for some. Sound carries very well across water, especially at night when the ambiant noise level is very low. A switchable exhaust would at least give the guy an option to quiet his already legal exhaust.


Woodsy

[KonaChick]

Woodsy..we all know the boats i'm speaking of..and they aren't your average boats. Loud enough to wake the dead.

[rickstr66]

I just got back from a weeks vacation on a beautiful lake in Maine. Here is my point. Every single morning without exception we were awoken at the crack of dawn by the sounds of..... yes you guessed it..... Birds, all kinds of birds. Crows ( the most annoying, well loudest), loons, wood peckers and many more I can't identify.They would start their annoying calls outside our windows at daybreak and not stop till 9 or 10 am. I say we hunt them all down and kill them. Who was it that let this problem fester and get out of control. It is clear that these birds are overpopulated on this once quiet lake. I'm entitled to my peace and quiet. Arn't I?

Now I say this with tongue firmly in cheek as this was the best summer vacation our family has ever had. Yes we could have done without the morning wake up calls every day but I wouldnt trade the opportunity we hade to have a wonderful time for anything. We are already counting the days till next year at the same time.

[MovieStar]

That's a very good point rickstr

[KonaChick]

When chickadee's can start driving GFBL boats we might have an argument here!! Let's all enjoy the last few weeks of summer here in this enchanted place some of us are lucky to call home.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ITD

Furthermore, loud boats are against the law.

Yeah , well now that the heat is over and the A/C off and the windows open , I'm surenaded by motorcycles. Keep in mind a street that's 50' from my house is a lot closer that most boats would be passing and the cycles a lot louder.
I realize it's part of life and I'm not mistaken , loud bike are against the law too.

[trfour]

Loud was what we heard!... Today, now that we can't hear so good from it,... lets have a little, non noise! What Say?....

[SAMIAM]

I love the whisper of my canoe slidding through the lily pads.....the gentle slap of wind on the sails of my Kestrel day sailer........but I also love the sweet rumble of a BIG BLOCK.........my wife says I need help.

[Waterbaby]

Just curious, have you ever been out here and on the Lake?

[Lakewinniboater]

I gotta say....... I have to agree with some. Although, I love my sleep and hate to be woken up. However, if you chose to live in certain area's things will happen. I live near a train. Some of the drivers are great at night and give a short blast.... some are not so concerned about those sleeping and there are 4-5 loud blasts.

I try to think.... hey, maybe there was something on the tracks. Maybe that is what they are mandated. I chose to live here.... no sense in getting mad. If I get mad they win.

A legal boat that late at night is going to sound annoying and illegal. NOT saying that it is muffled appropriately.... however, if it is..... is it worth getting yourself in an uproar. Or is it better to let it go and stay positive... enjoy the fact that we are able to enjoy the area? I think it is worth it. Nothing is perfect. Try and see the positive side. It isn't like the constant roar of a highway. It is momentary. Don't get your blood pressure up over it. Move on. Look at the wonderful parts of the lake. Let the negative be underplayed.

None of us with ever get our way all the time. There are some that will never be as polite as others. We are not all right all the time. Don't let it ruin a good thing!!!!!!!!!

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

if you chose to live in certain area's things will happen. I live near a train. Some of the drivers are great at night and give a short blast.... some are not so concerned about those sleeping and there are 4-5 loud blasts.

What if a train started coming through every night making 5 times the noise of the other trains, engine unmuffled, squealing wheels and a continuous horn blast. Wouldn't you object to that and ask some questions? Most people accept the normal sounds of fast boats and jetskis on a busy lake like Winni. It's the excessive noise at inappropriate times that is a problem.

[Lakewinniboater]

However, to complain about it is what I don't understand. If that were to happen..... I would sell the property and find a place that made me happy.

Complaining and finger pointing will never stop the things that annoy you. It is better to either not let it bother you or remove yourself from the situation if it is that bothersome.

Although, it does not mean that the others are right.......you can't control others. You need to do what makes you happier.

That was my only point.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

That was my only point.

And a good point it is for a less stressful life

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

However, to complain about it is what I don't understand. If that were to happen..... I would sell the property and find a place that made me happy.

Wow, I disagree 110%. I will fight for what I love and cherish. That includes my home and the lake.

I guess the word excessive just isn't in your vocabulary. You won't even acknowledge that some things (like the train I mentioned) are over the line.

It appears that what you are really saying is that you can do whatever you like, at any hour and volume, and if you disturb 1000 people, too bad, they should just leave. What a narrow minded and selfish view.

This is like talking to a wall, I won't try again.

[KonaChick]

Boater....... you've stated it much better and explained your point more clearly than I did. If you hadn't guessed I echo your thoughts exactly! Thank you.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Boater

What if a train started coming through every night making 5 times the noise of the other trains, engine unmuffled, squealing wheels and a continuous horn blast. Wouldn't you object to that and ask some questions? Most people accept the normal sounds of fast boats and jetskis on a busy lake like Winni. It's the excessive noise at inappropriate times that is a problem.

Boater,

The train scenario really doesn't work, as the railroad was there long before you or Wendy were. The railroad has a right to run trains, who by their nature are noisy. Thats like complaining about airplane noise when you move next to an airport.... or truck noise when you live next to a highway. If you don't like the noise, move to a quieter area or don't let it bother you. You have a choice.

The problem is that EVERYONE has a different definition of "Excessive Noise" and "Innapropriate Times". Thats why we have an RSA that defines excessive noise and sets a max db limit for boats. This limit is enforced with regularity. I know of several boats that have had to take the "Noise Test". My boat is perfectly legal and in compliance with the current noise statutes. However, if I were to go thru the Broads at 2am on plane I can just about guarantee I would be annoying a few people. But I wouldn't be breaking any laws.

Nobody has the right to peace and quiet! Lake Winnipesaukee is a shared resource, and as such sometimes you have to share with those who don't share the same opinion or beliefs. When you live along the lakeshore, you essentially live by the side of a road. When you live on the side of a roadway, on occasion. loud vehicles are going to pass by. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it except perhaps lobby for a change in the noise statute. That might reduce the noise some, but certainly not eliminate it. A little tolerance and repect for others goes along way. This goes for both sides as Orion pointed out below. (I was typing that when you posted ) Because swithcable exhaust is still illegal, the late night boater doesn't have much choice in quieting down his boat. Even at headway speed, I think my boat would be too loud for some, especially late at night.


Woodsy

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Boater,

A little tolerance and respect for others goes along way.


Woodsy

.....and that goes for the boatowner making the noise as well.

[MovieStar]

I don't think that anyone is disputing cranking on a V8 at 2:00 am is the wrong thing to do. I have a car with a V8 that screams. The nights that I get home late, I keep it as low as possible becasue it's just the right thing to do. During the day is a different story. Some people have no consideration for others and that's too bad.
I hate rap music with a passion. I have to listen to it at every stop light, every street I walk down and just about every store I walk into that has a young kid behind the register. I don't let it infuriate me and ruin my day. I don't walk around showing these people noise ordinances telling them that what they are doing is inconsiderate and rude. They know and they don't care. So I just drop it and laugh it off.
Those of you who don't like loud engines are in the right. However unless you have law enforcement that will enforce the laws or boaters and bikers with consideration, your up a creek without a paddle and that's unfortunate. And no I have not been to the Lake, Yet.

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The train scenario really doesn't work, as the railroad was there long before you or Wendy were. The railroad has a right to run trains, who by their nature are noisy. Thats like complaining about airplane noise when you move next to an airport....

You seemed to have missed that I was not talking about normal train traffic. Of course people who move near train tracks have to accept the normal noise that trains make and people who go to the lake have to accept the normal noise of boats, jetskis and other sounds of people having fun. My hypothetical was about a new train that suddenly raised the noise level X5. I was trying to make the point that some boat (or train) noise is excessive and unacceptable.

The same applies to airports. If you were used to the normal sounds of airplanes and suddenly one day new planes started creating much louder noise late at night you would be justified to complain. Many airports place limits on excessive noise and either don't allow certain aircraft in or place strict noise abatement requirements on them. This is because they cross the line of what is reasonable or tolerable by the airport's neighbors. Airports don't just tell their neighbors "just move" when new noise concerns arise, they try to be understanding and mitigate the problem as much as possible.

Recently in Boston many people living along the Comm. Ave streetcar line complained that the streetcars were now making an unacceptable amount of noise. I'm sure that you would have told them "too bad, move somewhere else". Fortunately the city acted more reasonably and tried to identify the cause (new kinds of wheels) and fix the problem.

It's too bad that you can't acknowledge that some noise crosses the line instead of answering every concern with "just move". You really want us to move so you can do whatever you want unchallenged. I'm not leaving.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

I gotta say....... I have to agree with some. Although, I love my sleep and hate to be woken up. However, if you chose to live in certain area's things will happen. I live near a train. Some of the drivers are great at night and give a short blast.... some are not so concerned about those sleeping and there are 4-5 loud blasts.

I try to think.... hey, maybe there was something on the tracks. Maybe that is what they are mandated. I chose to live here.... no sense in getting mad. If I get mad they win.

A legal boat that late at night is going to sound annoying and illegal. NOT saying that it is muffled appropriately.... however, if it is..... is it worth getting yourself in an uproar. Or is it better to let it go and stay positive... enjoy the fact that we are able to enjoy the area? I think it is worth it. Nothing is perfect. Try and see the positive side. It isn't like the constant roar of a highway. It is momentary. Don't get your blood pressure up over it. Move on. Look at the wonderful parts of the lake. Let the negative be underplayed.

None of us with ever get our way all the time. There are some that will never be as polite as others. We are not all right all the time. Don't let it ruin a good thing!!!!!!!!!

My family lived in a home near the tracks, no problem until the 3:00 AM train came through and shook it as well..... Only took a few weeks for us to stop getting up, and opening the doors, to let the train go through!!!
Good old Northfield, Vermont!!

Thanks for the reminder!

Love,
T.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Boater

It's too bad that you can't acknowledge that some noise crosses the line instead of answering every concern with "just move". You really want us to move so you can do whatever you want unchallenged. I'm not leaving.

Actually Boater, I don't want anyone to leave, nor do I care to "do anything I want unchallenged." I have no problem with the lake at all. I guess you would call that tolerance, something some people don't seem to get. What you may deem as excessive and inappropriate noise may actually be quite legal. My boat is in complete compliance with the noise statute. I also pointed out that at 2am I would probably annoy some people with the exhaust noise even though I am legal. My point was a completely legal boat at 2am can sound illegal and will no doubt be annoying. This is because the ambient noise level on the lake at 2am is very low, and because there are very few obstructions noise carries particularly well over water. How do you know if the boat is legal or not? You are just assuming the boat isn't legal.... because it bothers you.

My justification for "just move" is that Lake Winnipesaukee is not a quiet lake, and never has been. Many, many people use Lake Winni. Some use it late at night and in doing so create noise. (for the record, my boat hasn't been out past 10pm) If you want peace and quiet go move someplace where there isn't anyone around for miles. Not because I care if you stay or move, but because you seem to want peace and quiet.

I like Lake Winnipesaukee just the way it is. I for one, am quite frankly sick and tired of people who seem to have zero tolerance for anyone else and want to change the Lake to suit themselves. I personally don't care what anyone else does as long as they (for the most part) abide by the law. For example I have witnessed numerous 150' violations, but if the offending boat is far enough away that there really isn't any chance for a collision, who cares? If they don't abide by the laws, they are the MP's or town/state police problem. I don't let these boneheads ruin my time. There will always be those that don't abide and don't care. We see these people everyday driving like lunatics on our highways, why would we not see them doing the same on the Lake? The MP cannot catch every bonehead. Whining about what they do is like a 5 year old tattling on his older sibling. Nobody likes a tattletale. I am sure there isn't a person here, except maybe APS who has never pulled a Bonehead move.

Live and let live!

Woodsy

[Lakewinniboater]

Originally Posted by Boater

Wow, I disagree 110%. I will fight for what I love and cherish. That includes my home and the lake.

I guess the word excessive just isn't in your vocabulary. You won't even acknowledge that some things (like the train I mentioned) are over the line.

It appears that what you are really saying is that you can do whatever you like, at any hour and volume, and if you disturb 1000 people, too bad, they should just leave. What a narrow minded and selfish view.

This is like talking to a wall, I won't try again.

When did I infer or say I didn't acknowledge "excessiveness"? Honestly, before making accusations that I believe I can do whatever I like no matter how it effects others..... PLEASE, go back and READ what I wrote.

If you then decide to have an intelligent debate then fine. Until then, you only make yourself look foolish.

Seriously, I said that I don't appreciate it at times.... but I CHOSE not to allow it to get me upset. It is a momentary annoyance. If it got to the point that I didn't feel I could deal that I would move to make myself happier instead of being annoyed.

I did not tell you to "just move". I take offense to the misuse of my words.

However, as I stated before..... just a momentary annoyance and will not allow it to remain in my mind or ruin my day.

Have a good day all!

[KonaChick]

Ladies and Gentleman...I respectfully request we put this post to bed (quietly of course). Things are getting nasty on this one.

[Lakewinniboater]

not really. There is no name calling or anything. Just a debate.

However, I would agree that there is no getting anywhere with this one. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion

[Drummer Girl]

So many different thoughts. If I heard the boat noise in the middle of the night I would listen to the sound grow louder then fainter, wondering what the boat might look like and what fun or special thing may have kept people out so late. I would be thankful for another glance up at the stars, snuggle under the covers and go back to sleep with pleasant thoughts and being very thankful for yet another chance to think about how special being up at the lake is.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drummer Girl

So many different thoughts. If I heard the boat noise in the middle of the night I would listen to the sound grow louder then fainter, wondering what the boat might look like and what fun or special thing may have kept people out so late. I would be thankful for another glance up at the stars, snuggle under the covers and go back to sleep with pleasant thoughts and being very thankful for yet another chance to think about how special being up at the lake is.

That's the spirit

[KonaChick]

Lakewinniboater I get the sense that it's important to you to always be right. Am I off base on this?

[Lakewinniboater]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

Lakewinniboater I get the sense that it's important to you to always be right. Am I off base on this?

these are opinions. Where is there a place to be right. I do not like to be MISQUOTED. That is all

No need to be right. I just see a lot of times if the discussion is going in a non WinnFab manner that it gets shut down. That shouldnt be the case here. That is all.

This is supposed to be a forum.... not associated with either side and a good way for OPINIONS to be voiced. Maybe others can then form opinions or not!

[KonaChick]

Thanks for clearing that up and your honesty, it's appreciated. BTW i am NOT a member of WinnFab..so my opinion on noise from GFBL boats at 2 a.m. is just that...mine. Once again thanks for you reply.

[Kona Bay Girl]

Phew, it's been a while since I've posted here.

The truth of the matter is that while a quiet lake at 2 in the morning would be a fabulous thing, it can't be controlled. I'm guessing, Acres Per Second, this was only a one-time incident, otherwise it would have caused a commotion a while back. To have one incident out of the whole summer is a decent feat.

Lake Winnipesauke is not owned by anyone, and therefore is considered many things- a relaxing dip, a playground, a scenic dawn and sunset, and a wild ride for some boaters. Interests will conflict, and heated debates will occur. However, there is no right answer.

For example, I don't think people in New York are complaining about waking up at the crack of dawn because of the preparation of the Thanksgiving Day Parade. They all suck it up for one day a year, then go back to sleeping in late.

HOWEVER, if there was a parade every day, I could see where the conflict starts. To wake up every day with a giant Snoopy waving at you is quite a setback. However, the streets of New York City aren't owned or claimed to be owned by anybody, and there's not much anyone can do.

If noise is a recurring theme on the lake, (which honestly, it varies from year to year) then perhaps a hearty message at the launch ramp is all it takes to put things in perspective. "Town Officials of Meredith (Alton, etc.) Appreciate Your Courteosy and Respect for Lake Winnipesaukee and Its Residents" might be all it takes. It could be an effective start; a reminder for those who forget behind the throttle, and a pseudo Alma-Mater for permanent or temporary Residents.

Both sides of this debate are solid, with no pros outweighing each other. So instead of debating what "would" be nice or what's "right," both sides should discuss a fair solution that would allow boaters to play hard during the day, and residents to sleep well during the night.


I'm back up this weekend for the last hurrah before the "season" ends.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Kona Bay Girl

Phew, it's been a while since I've posted here.

The truth of the matter is that while a quiet lake at 2 in the morning would be a fabulous thing, it can't be controlled. I'm guessing, Acres Per Second, this was only a one-time incident, otherwise it would have caused a commotion a while back. To have one incident out of the whole summer is a decent feat.

Lake Winnipesauke is not owned by anyone, and therefore is considered many things- a relaxing dip, a playground, a scenic dawn and sunset, and a wild ride for some boaters. Interests will conflict, and heated debates will occur. However, there is no right answer.

For example, I don't think people in New York are complaining about waking up at the crack of dawn because of the preparation of the Thanksgiving Day Parade. They all suck it up for one day a year, then go back to sleeping in late.

HOWEVER, if there was a parade every day, I could see where the conflict starts. To wake up every day with a giant Snoopy waving at you is quite a setback. However, the streets of New York City aren't owned or claimed to be owned by anybody, and there's not much anyone can do.

If noise is a recurring theme on the lake, (which honestly, it varies from year to year) then perhaps a hearty message at the launch ramp is all it takes to put things in perspective. "Town Officials of Meredith (Alton, etc.) Appreciate Your Courteosy and Respect for Lake Winnipesaukee and Its Residents" might be all it takes. It could be an effective start; a reminder for those who forget behind the throttle, and a pseudo Alma-Mater for permanent or temporary Residents.

Both sides of this debate are solid, with no pros outweighing each other. So instead of debating what "would" be nice or what's "right," both sides should discuss a fair solution that would allow boaters to play hard during the day, and residents to sleep well during the night.


I'm back up this weekend for the last hurrah before the "season" ends.

The RIGHT answer:

Loud boats are illegal, Thanksgiving day parades usually are not.
Loud boats are illegal, squawking birds are not (for guy who complained about birds waking him up.)
People doing illegal things should not be cut any slack......

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by ITD

The RIGHT answer:

Loud boats are illegal, Thanksgiving day parades usually are not.
Loud boats are illegal, squawking birds are not (for guy who complained about birds waking him up.)
People doing illegal things should not be cut any slack......

ITD...

How do you know for a fact that the boat(s) in question are illegal? That is the crux of the problem, because the answer is... you don't know. You just assume they are illegal because you can hear them.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to prosecute a noise violation...

I have a real problem with your statement that "People doing illegal things should not be cut any slack". The world isn't perfect, prosecuting every little infraction would be a monumental waste of time and resources. A little more tolerance and perhaps education would be a better answer than tying up our emergency responders for relatively trivial infractions.

Woodsy

[rickstr66]

Just because you can hear a boat at 2 am doesnt mean its illegal. Just because you can hear a boat at 2 am doesn't mean its a "go fast" boat. It could be argued that a small skiff with an older outboard on it going by someones property would cause a longer disturbance of the silence then a faster boat which comes and goes in a minute or two.
Having said that. What would you have someone do that's going home either late night or early morning on the lake? They have to use their engine to get them there.
To the person who wanted to compare a parade in NY to the Lake. I feel thats a poor comparison. Compare apples to apples. A 1 day parade or event is no way similar to something that goes on everyday. Better examples have been brought up..... living adjacent to a railroad or to a highway where there pretty much is a constant or at least predictable flow of traffic and noise. It can be argued that if you live on a lake on any given night a boat may go by your property and it may disturb your sleep for a moment. You need to take that into account before decideing to move to lakefront property and not complain about it after the fact.

[ITD]

When I'm at the gas dock and the boat next to me starts and my ears start ringing, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. If I'm following a loud boat in the Weirs channel that's giving me a headache and it suddenly becomes quiet when the MP comes the other way, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. When I hear a boat at my house when its still miles away, I'm pretty sure its illegal.


Don't try to muddy the water by saying boats at the legal limit are loud, I'm talking ( as I'm sure most others are) about boats that are obnoxiously loud, ie no or very little sound suppression.

I'm also sure (my opinon here) that if these boats were silenced we wouldn't be debating a speed limit on this lake. (Because no one would notice the fast boats or care).

The Marine Patrol seems to be pretty rigorous at trying to get these boats and force them to be legal and I give them kudos. If the dingalings driving these boats would smarten up many of the speeding complaints would disappear.

Again, my humble opinion.

[KonaChick]

Yes ITD those are exactly the ones I'm speaking of..the one the guy in the next cove over has and when he starts it up the dishes in my china cabinet rattle. I agree MP is doing the best job they can in getting these boats to comply. I've stated in a previous thread that I know personally of two boats that the MP nailed and they were not allowd back on the lack until they were in complience.

[Woodsy]

ITD and KonaChick...

If you can get those guy bow numbers and turn them in to the MP... Let the MP see if they are legal or not. You will be doing all of us a favor.

Woodsy

[Lakewinniboater]

Originally Posted by ITD

When I'm at the gas dock and the boat next to me starts and my ears start ringing, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. If I'm following a loud boat in the Weirs channel that's giving me a headache and it suddenly becomes quiet when the MP comes the other way, I'm pretty sure it's illegal. When I hear a boat at my house when its still miles away, I'm pretty sure its illegal.


Don't try to muddy the water by saying boats at the legal limit are loud, I'm talking ( as I'm sure most others are) about boats that are obnoxiously loud, ie no or very little sound suppression.

I'm also sure (my opinon here) that if these boats were silenced we wouldn't be debating a speed limit on this lake. (Because no one would notice the fast boats or care).

The Marine Patrol seems to be pretty rigorous at trying to get these boats and force them to be legal and I give them kudos. If the dingalings driving these boats would smarten up many of the speeding complaints would disappear.

Again, my humble opinion.

Again...... Let me start by stating.... I do not like the loud boats either. However, I have made it clear my opinions of freedoms and tolerances and not controlling others.

However, this is where I am sure to get the crowd wanting to lynch me at dawn.

I am glad to see someone FINALLY admit why this speed debate has risen. We all knew it was to get the GF boats to go away and knew speed wasn't the issue. We also were pretty sure that it was discriminatory.

LIKE I SAID... remember, I don't own a go fast boat and can't do over 45mph and isn't loud. However, I felt that this whole issue was inflamatory and un-necessary of our Politicians time. I ASSUMED it was a result of the Sound Ordinance not working well enough and that it was just another attempt for quiet and silence. (which Winni has never been..... but many lakes like Squam or Merry Meeting ARE!)

I am glad to see that after many girations that it is out in the open.

So.... go ahead and fire away.... I have my bullet proof vest on! KIDDING!!!!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Lakewinniboater

I am glad to see someone FINALLY admit why this speed debate has risen. We all knew it was to get the GF boats to go away and knew speed wasn't the issue. We also were pretty sure that it was discriminatory.

I've maintained this all along, in the appropriate threads, the speed limit people are upset about large wakes, loud noise, then speed, no secret here.

I know this is a busy lake, I barely notice "normal" boat noise, even on a busy Saturday. Part of the reason I picked this lake instead of Squam was I liked what it had to offer as far as places to go and so on. I knew it would not be as quiet as Squam or Winnisquam, although it is pretty close during the week in the summer. On the other hand, excessive noise isn't part of the deal (per the law) and should be eliminated.

The boats I fear are pontoon boats with 60+ yo drivers, I've had more close calls with them (while fishing out of my rowboat or sailing) . The GF boats always give a wide berth.

I have no problem with muffled GF boats, the unmuffled ones should go to the ocean at least 10 miles from shore and make all the noise they want there, let the whales deal with it.