E15 Ethanol Warning!!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAB1

Oh forgot to mention and I know it is hard to change peoples opinions and dont intend to but I do now store all my takes full in offseason. No poke at you intended Belmont. All the boat/car/motorcyle/snowmobile mechanics I use now say to store full as do the charter fisherman out at Lake O. The initial year ethanol came out they (mechanics)were against this due to possible phase separation but now they all tell me to store full especially if you have a metal tank and load them up with Stabil (always did anyway). To much condensation can form on the empty sides of the tanks. Plastic tanks less of an issue. I also run Star tron in everything now. Stinks buying it and paying more money but I have had so many issues with small outboard carb's its worth it. Several people I know with snowmobile store their tanks full and then in spring syphon the gas out and run it through their cars.

You are absolutely correct SAB1. By emptying the tank and carburetor gaskets and seals will definitely dry up and crack a lot faster also. Best to stabilize and keep tank and carb full. Been doing it this way since the introduction of ethanol and haven't had any issues yet.

Dan

[jrc]

There is so much misinformation on ethanol that it's hard to know what is true.

On small engines, I always use stabile on the last tank, drain as much as possible and then run them dry. I never used to worry about it but since ethanol, I've had to rebuild one (out of a set of four) motorcycle carbs and a snowblower carb.

The boat has two 130 gallon steel tanks, draining is not practical and having 260 gallons of 6 month old fuel in May is not appealing. So I load up with stabile or similar during the last top off and store with somewhere under a quarter tank. My mechanic winterizes the engines and does whatever he does. Come spring it starts right up. Then I usually fill up with fresh gas.

This is season seven for this boat coming up and it has never seen non-ethanol fuel.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by jrc

There is so much misinformation on ethanol that it's hard to know what is true.

On small engines, I always use stabile on the last tank, drain as much as possible and then run them dry. I never used to worry about it but since ethanol, I've had to rebuild one (out of a set of four) motorcycle carbs and a snowblower carb.

The boat has two 130 gallon steel tanks, draining is not practical and having 260 gallons of 6 month old fuel in May is not appealing. So I load up with stabile or similar during the last top off and store with somewhere under a quarter tank. My mechanic winterizes the engines and does whatever he does. Come spring it starts right up. Then I usually fill up with fresh gas.

This is season seven for this boat coming up and it has never seen non-ethanol fuel.

WAYYYYYYY too much misinformation!! They should just get rid of ethanol so we, the middle class, can keep some of our hard-earned money. All ethanol does is put OUR money in someone else's pockets!!

I'm in a similar situation only I only have one 96 gal tank and like you said, draining it is not practical or easy. BUT, I do just the opposite of you, I fill the tank to the top and load it up with Marine Stabile in the recommended dosage for long storage. I've been through 12 seasons with this boat now doing it this way and, knock on wood, I haven't had a problem yet. One year I couldn't find Marine Stabile in any of the auto stores near me so I used Seafoam; no problems that year either.

I use Stabile (blue or red) in all my small engines (and the boat) and maybe I've just been lucky but, so far, so good!

[SAB1]

Though I don't have experience with it, charter captains at Lake O have also cautioned me about storing a partial tank. Apparently alcohol is a conductor and the old gas we had without ethanol wasn't. The alcohol can cause galvanic corrosion where it meets the air thus deteriorating a tank. No experience with it but they claim it happens. Anyway, one thing I do do no matter if its a two stroke or a 4 stroke is fog all my engines pull my plugs a blast each cylinder after fogging. I never skip that.

On an off topic, Belmont, for chain case oil in the snowmobile, do you use a gear lube? I see many guys use 75w 90 rather than what the stuff at the dealer.

[BroadHopper]

I have a 1988 I/O with an 80 gallon gas tank. The tank has neoprene liner to prevent corrosion of the aluminum. Since the boat was built before ethanol was added to the gas, the neoprene liner, the gas hoses and the carburetor gaskets have all deterorated from the ethanol. Ethanol is technically a solvent and will disolve any neoprene and rubber materials. New gaskets and liners are made of a different material and are impervious to ethanol.

The gas tank, all the gas hoses and the gaskets on the carb have all been replace costiong me $thousands. At the time the govt claims it is not cause by ethanol. Go figure.

[SAB1]

Though I don't have experience with it, charter captains at Lake O have also cautioned me about storing a partial tank. Apparently alcohol is a conductor and the old gas we had without ethanol wasn't. The alcohol can cause galvanic corrosion where it meets the air thus deteriorating a tank. No experience with it but they claim it happens. Anyway, one thing I do do no matter if its a two stroke or a 4 stroke is fog all my engines pull my plugs a blast each cylinder after fogging. I never skip that.

On an off topic, Belmont, for chain case oil in the snowmobile, do you use a gear lube? I see many guys use 75w 90 rather than what the stuff at the dealer.

[robmac]

The goo that was mentioned in a prior post is the result of phase separation,this happens when the Ethanol absorbs its maximum amount of moisture and separates from the gasoline and drops to the bottom of you gas tank because it is heavier.This Goo(which looks grey and consistency of like karo syrup) is picked up and the destruction begins. As stated most cars and trucks turn the fuel over quick enough the it doesn't affect them as badly.E15 will affect cars and trucks due to the ECM programing which will allow them to run on 10% ethanol by volume unless you own a vehicle designed for E85.When on winter blend gas you can test it as I am forced to do because of my occupation I have found this year winter blend containing up to 16% by volume.Hence poor performance,poor fuel economy and other driveability issues.Small engines or vehicle that sit for periods of time where the gas isn't going to be cycled through within 60 days you should be adding a product that prevent phase separation. My brand of choice is Startron,I have used it since 2004 and have never had an issue relating to fuel. On the water some marinas treat the fuel in their tanks so the work is done for you Like Channel/valvtech-Shep Browns/Startron etc. which ever you choose make absolutly it is designed and they stand behind it if it doent work.I cant stand watching parts people still selling red Stabil it is useless when you have E10 fuel. Just my 2 cents

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by robmac

The goo that was mentioned in a prior post is the result of phase separation,this happens when the Ethanol absorbs its maximum amount of moisture and separates from the gasoline and drops to the bottom of you gas tank because it is heavier.This Goo(which looks grey and consistency of like karo syrup) is picked up and the destruction begins. As stated most cars and trucks turn the fuel over quick enough the it doesn't affect them as badly.E15 will affect cars and trucks due to the ECM programing which will allow them to run on 10% ethanol by volume unless you own a vehicle designed for E85.When on winter blend gas you can test it as I am forced to do because of my occupation I have found this year winter blend containing up to 16% by volume.Hence poor performance,poor fuel economy and other driveability issues.Small engines or vehicle that sit for periods of time where the gas isn't going to be cycled through within 60 days you should be adding a product that prevent phase separation. My brand of choice is Startron,I have used it since 2004 and have never had an issue relating to fuel. On the water some marinas treat the fuel in their tanks so the work is done for you Like Channel/valvtech-Shep Browns/Startron etc. which ever you choose make absolutly it is designed and they stand behind it if it doent work.I cant stand watching parts people still selling red Stabil it is useless when you have E10 fuel. Just my 2 cents

I have been using the RED STABIL for years without any problems. Do you have any white papers or facts to back up your claim that it is useless?

[BroadHopper]

I have seen two sides to that story in the boat magazines. The latest story in Boat US is that ethanol stabilzers work for 18 months. If you your going to empty the tank within 18 months than leave the tank full. If you are going to store the gas longer then empty the tank.

My mechanic says it doesn't matter how much is in the tank. You are storing the boat for a few months with stabilizer, today's water filter can compensate for any water and bad ethanol.

I talk to another reliable mechanic and he confirmed this finding.

[robmac]

if the red stabil was effective they wouldn't have invested all the money to come up with the new stabil for ethanol. Simple business 101 why make new if old works fine. Check with small engine repair shops RV repair centers they love it. Never had a problem using Startron since E10 was thrust upon us nor have I seen any issues when using it(I am in the repair industry)

[Rich]

Did you know they have an 'app' for that!

That's right, an app to help you find non E-10 (or E-15) gas.

Please note that I just found this the other day and haven't used it yet, other than to check to see what it shows in our area.

The app is called "Pure Gas" and I have it on my Android, I understand there may be an Apple version too. It's supposed to be driven by the pure-gas.org website.

Note that the app lists Channel Marine as having 'Ethanol-free VALVTECT 89 and 91 Octane'. I have not tried to verify this information. The info may be entered by end users, so I suppose that it could be incorrect, but I hear everything on the Internet is true. How do I know? They said so on the Internet!

[BroadHopper]

is a additive like Startron or Stabil.
Not sure why Channel Marine would add this to ethanol free gas.

http://www.valvtect.com/

Last summer their pumps had the contains 10% ethanol sticker. This will be a welcome addition to the lake this summer.

I don't expect the price to be cheaper as ethanol is subsidized by the govt. and currently almost $1 a gallon cheaper than gas. Ethanol is the most inefficient fuel to burn as it cost more to produce ethanol than gas. Most of our ethanol comes from Brazil. I thought the whole idea of ethanol was to be independent of fuel from foreign countries? Ecologically ethanol is a disaster as Brazil is clear cutting the rain forest for ethanol production.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

is a additive like Startron or Stabil.
Not sure why Channel Marine would add this to ethanol free gas.

http://www.valvtect.com/

Last summer their pumps had the contains 10% ethanol sticker. This will be a welcome addition to the lake this summer.

I don't expect the price to be cheaper as ethanol is subsidized by the govt. and currently almost $1 a gallon cheaper than gas. Ethanol is the most inefficient fuel to burn as it cost more to produce ethanol than gas. Most of our ethanol comes from Brazil. I thought the whole idea of ethanol was to be independent of fuel from foreign countries? Ecologically ethanol is a disaster as Brazil is clear cutting the rain forest for ethanol production.

Pretty soon when we go to the pump we might be saying: "Fill it up with rain forest please".

Brazil produces surgar cane ethanol, and the US produces corn ethanol. The US is the number one producer of ethanol and Brazil is second.

As far as how much each country imports and exports is something that I don't think you will find an answer to right now, I couldn't anyway.