The next Ward Bird?

[AC2717]

opinion:
Case closed
he was defending his and his neighbor's property and people from bad. SO now I am just to watch what happens, call the police and watch the guy run away while we wait for the cops to come, becuase no matter how good the cops are, and they are do not get me wrong, they will not get there in the 2 minutes or seconds it takes for this guy to dissappear.

what a joke

[BroadHopper]

Funny thing if you report a heart attack, the police are at your house in seconds! Go figure.

[Resident 2B]

I'm in Florida and I'm watching American Idol on Fox. They just had a spot with the 10 PM news headlines. This story is one of the lead stories and the anchor said, 'you will not believe this one'. Maybe not a exact quote, but that was the message.

Can't wait to see and hear the story with a local Florida spin.

R2B

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

I'm in Florida and I'm watching American Idol on Fox. They just had a spot with the 10 PM news headlines. This story is one of the lead stories and the anchor said, 'you will not believe this one'. Maybe not a exact quote, but that was the message.

Can't wait to see and hear the story with a local Florida spin.

R2B

It is pretty sad when Florida is making fun of US! Every time we go to Orlando and watch the news I shake my head and ask why people would want to live there. Some of the stuff that goes on there is mind boggling...

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It is pretty sad when Florida is making fun of US! Every time we go to Orlando and watch the news I shake my head and ask why people would want to live there. Some of the stuff that goes on there is mind boggling...

I beats having to listen to them whine about how much they hate winter and the snow.
My wife has travel to Florida and she can’t figure out why anyone would want to live there. Heat, humidity, constant rain, hurricanes. Oh but it’s nice during the winter just not the other 9 months out of the year. I suppose it is the same as owning a second home on the lake and paying for it all year and only using it part time.
Ok I might be getting off topic.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by AC2717

opinion:
Case closed
he was defending his and his neighbor's property and people from bad. SO now I am just to watch what happens, call the police and watch the guy run away while we wait for the cops to come, becuase no matter how good the cops are, and they are do not get me wrong, they will not get there in the 2 minutes or seconds it takes for this guy to dissappear.

what a joke

I think many are straying from the reason he was detained. From my understanding there was never a problem with him catching and holding the guy at gunpoint.
It was his discharging of the weapon on someone else’s or public property that is the issue. There are all kinds of rules as to discharging a weapon and how far you have to be from a house or residential area.
Heck when I’m shooting squirrels in out my back window I’m probably in violation even though there are acres of woods around me. But the one and only house near me is within 100 feet of my house on the other side.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I think many are straying from the reason he was detained. From my understanding there was never a problem with him catching and holding the guy at gunpoint.
It was his discharging of the weapon on someone else’s or public property that is the issue. There are all kinds of rules as to discharging a weapon and how far you have to be from a house or residential area.
Heck when I’m shooting squirrels in out my back window I’m probably in violation even though there are acres of woods around me. But the one and only house near me is within 100 feet of my house on the other side.

Valid point, but if I am on my neighbors property and discharging a weapon to either hault or prevent a crime, don't you think it should be up to the neighbor to say that what I did on his property was wrong?? I understand general laws but there has to be a common sense rule.
At what point should we take to the reason that when you commit a crime the rules change from common society laws to protection laws

[Grandpa Redneck]

CHARGES DROPPED, really shouldn't have been charged in the first place though.

http://www.wmur.com/news/30524687/detail.html

[NoRegrets]

Looks like the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" has turned into a source of revenue for and debate in the judicial and legal fields.

Technicality of the law now over-rides the intent of the law. Inconsistent application of punishment has given suspicion that processes are corruptible. The inability to take action against "bad and criminal" activity makes the individual victim feel vulnerable or at risk so when we feel right about protecting our small little parcel of earth we risk becoming the "next Ward".

I find it sad that we are evolving into a society that isn't driven by morals with leadership that focuses on social responsibility and contribution. We have leaders fanning class wars and encourage or celebrate tolerance for activities that decay our society.

Hope this situation clears up and the crook's name, crime, and punishment are all that is head lined!

Keep the heat turned on and enjoy an Early ICE OUT for 2012!!!!

[Slickcraft]

Sanity returns:

From WMUR
http://www.wmur.com/news/30524687/detail.html

FARMINGTON, N.H. -- The county attorney's office is dropping charges against a man who tracked down a burglary suspect and held him at gunpoint until police could arrive.

Dennis Fleming said he tracked down the man in his Farmington neighborhood and fired his gun into the ground to get the burglar to stop.

He held 27-year-old Joseph Hebert at gunpoint until police arrived and arrested him.

Hebert was charged with two counts of burglary and one count of possession of a controlled drug.

Fleming was originally charged with reckless conduct for firing the gun.

"The facts available at the scene on Saturday supported the charge of felony reckless conduct, but subsequent facts discovered since have led me to believe that such a charge under these circumstances would be unjust," the Strafford County attorney said in a statement.

The attorney's office said firing a "warning shot" around or near other people or homes can result in police involvement or a charge.

[RailroadJoe]

About time the attorney Generals office got smart. Maybe they are thinking logically.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Maybe they are thinking logically.

Ha! Good one! I'd say they succumbed to public outcry. Or, in their own words "...but subsequent facts discovered since have led me to believe that such a charge under these circumstances would be unjust".

[NoBozo]

Ya really gotta hate it when those Pesky "subsequent facts" rear their ugly heads in the middle of an otherwise airtight case. NB

[Lakepilot]

Was it the NH Attorney General or the Stafford County Attorney that exercised such poor judgement in this case? What office and what individual in that office?

[bclaker]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

About time the attorney Generals office got smart. Maybe they are thinking logically.

Maybe they checked the survey on FOX 25. When I checked last night, about 94% favored not pressing charges.

[Jonas Pilot]

What ever they did, they fixed it and got it right.

[Pineedles]

I am very glad the charges were dropped. I also want to issue a big thank you to Dennis Fleming for his actions. This man is a true hero! Think about it folks, do you have inside of you, what it took Mr. Fleming to do? I don't know whether I have it. I hope I don't ever have to find out. Holding a gun on someone, is something that is not easy to do I would imagine.

[jeffk]

While I agree with the common sense outcome I think the actions that happened are not clear cut.

Are you "defending your property or yourself" when you hunt someone down that has left your property?

Discharging a firearm is serious. So is threatening with a firearm. It doesn't sound like the burglar, although committing a felony, had a weapon. I'm not sure what a person's rights are to detain a person using a gun when that person isn't a direct threat. Suppose Fleming found the guy a couple days later and somehow identified him. Could he pull a gun on him?

In comparing it to the Bird case. Ward says that he did NOT threaten the woman with his gun, and she WAS on HIS property illegally, a misdemeanor. He certainly did not discharge his weapon. He did not try to detain her for the police. He just told her to leave. Ward's actions were much more restrained than Mr. Fleming and yet Ward's case was pursued as a felony. It shows the people at the start of the case make decisions that have a significant impact on the outcome.

[SIKSUKR]

Homerun on that post Jeff.

[Pineedles]

Although the title of the thread may have been disjointed from the Bird affair, as a 2nd amendment advocate I wanted people to look at, think, and respond to a man's actions in defending his home and his neighbor's home; and of course most important, the action of the government in arresting him.

I worry about this country's future and the legacy that we will leave our children. Are we our neighbors keepers? No, but we must be willing to stand up and protect them if the situation presents itself. This is why I believe Mr. Fleming is a hero. Damn the torpedoes (gun laws) and full steam ahead. Or in other words, restrain the perpetrator despite the noise ordinances with a shot to ground, to get his attention, and let him know you mean business.

[NBR]

Better to let the guy know the gun is loaded and you are serious than be forced to shoot him if he decides to go for you!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by NBR

Better to let the guy know the gun is loaded and you are serious than be forced to shoot him if he decides to go for you!

Except that if you've taken any basic gun safety or home defense legality courses you'll know that this is the opposite of the truth.

You don't fire off "warning shots". Ever.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Except that if you've taken any basic gun safety or home defense legality courses you'll know that this is the opposite of the truth.

You don't fire off "warning shots". Ever.

Correct. You can never be sure where that round will go especially when under stress. Also the warning round might result in return fire from a panicked bad guy turning the incident into a gun fight. Police have to account for every round fired and are trained to not fire warning shots. They fire only at an imminent deadly threat and then shoot to kill.

[tis]

But if he killed the guy, there is no doubt he would be in jail. Good thing it WAS a warning shot only……..

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by tis

But if he killed the guy, there is no doubt he would be in jail. Good thing it WAS a warning shot only……..

No, it's really not a "good thing". We don't know the exact details of the scenario, but most people who specialize in training for these sorts of scenarios would tell you that by firing a "Warning" shot he had about a 50/50 chance of causing bodily harm or lethal harm to himself and/or the burglar.