Need a good DNS service provider

Lakepilot · 05-19-2011, 09:19 AM

We have a home automation system that presently uses an HP server with it's DNS provider to allow us to remotely access the house. The server is not reliable in that when ever the power goes off longer then the large UPS I have it shuts off and has to manually be restarted. We have power outages longer then any UPS will hold up the server and when that happens and we're on the road, we lose the ability to remotely access the house.

I have upgraded the HAI system to allow us to use their app on our IPhone to remotely access the system, but I need a DNS provider.

There are a lot of DNS providers, so who is the easiest to use, most reliable and cost effective provider?

welchislandman · 05-19-2011, 10:41 AM

I am doing a similar configuration and do it a bit differently to cover power failures.

- Server that auto reboots on power failure and power restore - I set this in BIOS
- UPS that auto shuts system when few mins left of battery and restarts

If the power is lost for lets say 1 hour the server starts back up after seeing AC available and the automation agents restart

On the DNS question, are you looking to have your network available on the outside using DNS if your router changes IP address once in a while ?
I use dydns, but the IP rarely changes for me ( I have fairpoint)
http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/

jeff

Lakepilot · 05-19-2011, 01:26 PM

Our server is an HP Media Smart server, but it's pretty dumb. You can't plug a display into it. It's a preprogrammed stand alone box. There is no way to have it restart on power fail unless you manually hit the power button.

I just signed up for DNS services with dyndns.org, but now I find my Apple router doesn't have a client update function built in, so now I'm off on another hunt.

Thanks for the info. I'll let you know how I made out.

ITD · 05-19-2011, 01:29 PM

I use dyndns.com also, it works great, I've been using it for about 5 or 6 years now. I just use the free service, you have to update it once a month if your IP address doesn't change, they send you an email, I haven't gotten one in a while. My Netgear router handles the updates, I don't use a server. I just replaced the router (lightning strike last year was giving me trouble) for $79.

I have an HAI system too, I use it for security, to run my bubbler and heat tapes plus strategic lights so I can see remotely at night with cameras. It's a great system and has saved many trips to check on things.

patman · 05-19-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

Our server is an HP Media Smart server, but it's pretty dumb. You can't plug a display into it. It's a preprogrammed stand alone box. There is no way to have it restart on power fail unless you manually hit the power button.

I know nothing about these servers or this seller, but...

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/foru...php?f=6&t=8066

Presumably with this you could hook up a keyboard and a monitor, and change the BIOS settings so that it would power up automatically...

brk-lnt · 05-19-2011, 04:32 PM

For what you are describing, DynDNS has the best solution for you.

You can also run a client on a PC that can update the DynDNS servers when your IP changes, it doesn't *have* come from your router.

Lakepilot · 05-19-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patman

I know nothing about these servers or this seller, but...

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/foru...php?f=6&t=8066

Presumably with this you could hook up a keyboard and a monitor, and change the BIOS settings so that it would power up automatically...

Thanks for this info, it's great. He makes a device that allows you to hook up a crt, keyboard and mouse to our server. There are others that have published how to hack the BIOS to get it to restart automatically on power fail, so the two could do the job. It bugs me to no end that we were one of the first to buy one of the HP servers and as pioneers we got killed. Now they want another $1,000 to buy a whole new server to fix their problem. This guy is selling access to the solution for approx. $80.

The problem I have now is we're pretty far down the road of getting rid of the HP server and never going back. They got me once and I don't want to give them another chance.

Lakepilot · 05-19-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

For what you are describing, DynDNS has the best solution for you.

You can also run a client on a PC that can update the DynDNS servers when your IP changes, it doesn't *have* come from your router.

I know that but we have to leave a pc or mac running when we're gone and how do I ensure it restarts after a power outage. We have frequent power outages that exceed the ability of our UPS to keep things running. I could buy a generator, but a router that restarts every time is cheaper.

jrc · 05-19-2011, 06:10 PM

I have a panasonic ethernet camera that has a dynamic dns client built in and a free dynamic dns service to use.

Might be a cheap solution.

brk-lnt · 05-19-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

I know that but we have to leave a pc or mac running when we're gone and how do I ensure it restarts after a power outage. We have frequent power outages that exceed the ability of our UPS to keep things running. I could buy a generator, but a router that restarts every time is cheaper.

Most PCs can be set to restart, it's more of the odd one that can't. I *know* Macs can, because that's what I run my home automation system off of. Indigo on a Mac Mini. http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/index.html

Lakepilot · 05-20-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

I have a panasonic ethernet camera that has a dynamic dns client built in and a free dynamic dns service to use.

Might be a cheap solution.

JRC do you have a model number for the camera? I'll check it out.

MikeF-NH · 05-20-2011, 07:26 AM

Some UPSs have intelligence that will send a signal to the server to shut down gracefully if power is out more than a few minutes then send a boot signal to the server when power is restored. This is not a server function but a function of the UPS.

Lakepilot · 05-20-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Most PCs can be set to restart, it's more of the odd one that can't. I *know* Macs can, because that's what I run my home automation system off of. Indigo on a Mac Mini. http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/index.html

Thanks for the info. We'll look at it.

welchislandman · 05-20-2011, 10:11 AM

Another option to look into on restarting the system after a power outage would be Wake-on-LAN. It uses the network to restart the system by sending a "magic packet" to the system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN
If the pc supports this might be a nice way to restart. Some UPS systems and routers offer this support also ( see below) but if your staying with the current model you could do this manually from a website etc.

more info on router support for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT

If accessing BIOS isnt an easy option might also contact HP to see if they have a solution for you.

jrc · 05-20-2011, 10:59 AM

I'm using a Panasonic KX HCM10, It's pretty old. I got it for $10 at a yard sale. The newer ones are more pricey.

patman · 05-20-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

I'm using a Panasonic KX HCM10, It's pretty old. I got it for $10 at a yard sale. The newer ones are more pricey.

I must be hitting the wrong yard sales...

Lakepilot · 05-20-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welchislandman

Another option to look into on restarting the system after a power outage would be Wake-on-LAN. It uses the network to restart the system by sending a "magic packet" to the system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN
If the pc supports this might be a nice way to restart. Some UPS systems and routers offer this support also ( see below) but if your staying with the current model you could do this manually from a website etc.

more info on router support for this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT

If accessing BIOS isnt an easy option might also contact HP to see if they have a solution for you.

HP designed it so you can't access the bios (no crt, mouse or keyboard ports). I called them and they suggested I buy a new HP server since the new ones auto start.

MAXUM · 05-23-2011, 07:33 AM

Sounds like you have two problems to solve.

For your DNS I agree dnyDNS is a great solution for what you're looking for provided your address doesn't change often. Before going down that road I would find out what the lease time your service provider's DHCP server is handing you for your address. Many keep those short because they have a limited pool of addresses to play with and they cost money if they are not cycling off freed up addresses quickly meaning that address you're issued is bound to be released and handed back out should your system go off line.
If it's that important to be able to access your system and not have the IP change on you I'd really consider getting a static one issued.

Now as for your power, have you considered an IP based PDU? Basically it's a power strip you can control over wire, and power on any outlet remotely. Super handy to have. Unless you blow a breaker you'll always be able to bring your system up.

brk-lnt · 05-23-2011, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Now as for your power, have you considered an IP based PDU? Basically it's a power strip you can control over wire, and power on any outlet remotely. Super handy to have. Unless you blow a breaker you'll always be able to bring your system up.

That won't work for his case. The problem is that the PC requires a physical button push, it doesn't power on automatically after a power failure. The other problem is that after a power failure his cable modem reboots and he gets a new IP address. Without a device that can register to DynDNS for him, he wouldn't know what IP to access the PDU on, and even if he did, it wouldn't re-power his PC anyway.

The easiest solution for this case might be to setup a simple circuit that would click a relay upon powering up. Tie the relay into the power switch of the PC so that it gets the button push it needs after a power failure.

patman · 05-23-2011, 08:31 AM

OP's need is to be able to contact the server(s) at the house one way or another. Having a fixed IP is one way, using dynDNS would eliminate needing to have a fixed IP. If you can get to it by the name registered via dynDNS, then you don't really even care what the IP underneath that name is. (That also depends a little on the specific remote access software, some of it is old enough to only allow putting in an IP address, but most of it is bright enough to accept an IP or a name.)

The dynDNS registration could be done by some other system in the house, it doesn't have to be that server. Unless the server is plugged directly into the cable modem (which is unwise these days) it's really the router that is doing the DHCP negotiation anyway. Newer routers have built-in support for registering with the dynDNS (or similar) service after the IP lease is established.

Getting the server to power on when the power comes back becomes the biggest problem. The BIOS isn't set to allow auto-power-on, and without spending some money on a KVM interface (as I posted above) you're down to hacking a relay into the power button, or making some sort of solenoid that physically presses the existing button. Essentially you'll end up needing some sort of home automation controller to control the thing that will power on your home automation controller.

Another thing to consider is that you may not *want* the server to come back online immediately after power is restored. If it's partway through coming up and the power goes out again, it's unlikely that the UPS would have had enough time to charge to allow a graceful shutdown, so you'd end up with an ungraceful one. There's a lot of disk activity on bootup, so you end up playing Russian roulette that any given set of disk writes are going to make it out as a group. Eventually you'll lose that bet, which could cause filesystem problems that might kill the entire server. (Or at best, require some filesystem repair that you aren't going to be able to initiate remotely.) Ideally it would wait to boot up until the UPS could guarantee enough coast time to shut down.

In the end...it might be time to find a smarter server.

Lakepilot · 05-23-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Sounds like you have two problems to solve.

For your DNS I agree dnyDNS is a great solution for what you're looking for provided your address doesn't change often. Before going down that road I would find out what the lease time your service provider's DHCP server is handing you for your address. Many keep those short because they have a limited pool of addresses to play with and they cost money if they are not cycling off freed up addresses quickly meaning that address you're issued is bound to be released and handed back out should your system go off line.
If it's that important to be able to access your system and not have the IP change on you I'd really consider getting a static one issued.

Metrocast won't provide a static IP address unless I sign up for a business service - and that's a lot more money. I called them and they said IP's are assigned every few days. I still have the same IP I had when I started the thread.

Now as for your power, have you considered an IP based PDU? Basically it's a power strip you can control over wire, and power on any outlet remotely. Super handy to have. Unless you blow a breaker you'll always be able to bring your system up.

The problem I have is that once the AC goes away, the server won't start, even when the power comes back on. HP doesn't give you control over anything - like the bios - to tell it to turn on, so a plug strip won't do any good.

Thanks for the ideas though.

Lakepilot · 05-23-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

That won't work for his case. The problem is that the PC requires a physical button push, it doesn't power on automatically after a power failure. The other problem is that after a power failure his cable modem reboots and he gets a new IP address. Without a device that can register to DynDNS for him, he wouldn't know what IP to access the PDU on, and even if he did, it wouldn't re-power his PC anyway.

The easiest solution for this case might be to setup a simple circuit that would click a relay upon powering up. Tie the relay into the power switch of the PC so that it gets the button push it needs after a power failure.

Now that's an interesting idea! I'll have to think about it.

Lakepilot · 05-23-2011, 12:50 PM

What I've done in the short term is that I have ordered a router that has a client update function. It will notify dyndns that our IP has changed and provide it with a new one. We'll see how that works after I get it and install it.

Lakepilot · 05-26-2011, 04:23 PM

I got the DLink DIR655 router from B&H photo.

I tried and tried to get it running with dyndns and couldn't. I noticed that DLink had a free ddns update client for that router. I tried that and within 5 minutes had it all running. DLink uses dyndns for their service, but DLinks instructions were spot on. Dyndns doesn't really want anyone to use the free service so they make it a bear to use.

Blue Pig · 05-29-2011, 08:42 AM

You're first problem is that you're using HP. HP generates 70% of its revenue from ink & print cartridges & 20% from personal laptops. So servers are just one of many things HP sucks at. If you're looking for some serious servers "connect to the network" & give a legitimate company like Cisco a shot. Plus Cisco's CEO John Chambers has a house is Alton Bay & supports local businesses!

brk-lnt · 05-31-2011, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Pig

You're first problem is that you're using HP. HP generates 70% of its revenue from ink & print cartridges & 20% from personal laptops. So servers are just one of many things HP sucks at. If you're looking for some serious servers "connect to the network" & give a legitimate company like Cisco a shot. Plus Cisco's CEO John Chambers has a house is Alton Bay & supports local businesses!

If you read through the thread, he is not looking for "a serious server". He is looking for a simple machine that can power up after a power loss.

Also, I've been in hundreds of data centers, including those of most large banks and several Fortune 100 companies. I also maintain some colo space of my own, and do server hosting. I've *never* seen a Cisco server in use anywhere, in fact the HP servers that you knock are actually fairly popular and I know several folks running them with great success.

Lakepilot · 05-31-2011, 07:01 AM

BRK, you're right, the major difficulty I faced was getting the system up and running after a power loss too long for my APC's to handle. The HP server I used didn't restart. Other then that, at the time, they offered server products you couldn't get anywhere else. My aggravation with HP is that they new of the issue, since they corrected it on later models, but didn't offer an update to the operating system for my model. Various hackers had ways of dealing with it so I know the box could be restarted. I tend to be an early adopter and once again paid the price for being one of the first to do something.

Cisco is also a great company. I don't want to slam them or HP. They've both had some issues recently. Blue Pig, I would check you numbers on HP's sales breakdown. It doesn't appear to be accurate. Dyndns has a list of dns certified routers. Three of them are Linksys, which was bought by Cisco, but my reading of the reviews on the dyndns site, indicated the DLink were better for what I wanted. And they've worked well.

The network cameras I installed are also working very well. I've ordered more.

brk-lnt · 05-31-2011, 08:17 AM

Minor thing, but...

It would be the BIOS, not the operating system, that would need to be updated. This is doable, but generally a bit cumbersome and prone to erros for the typical end-user. This might be why HP never released a BIOS update for the machine. It is also possible that the machine does not have the circuitry to sense power and initiate a bootup (unlikely, but possible).

What network cameras did you install?

05-19-2011, 09:19 AM	#1
Lakepilot Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 446 Thanks: 70 Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts	Need a good DNS service provider We have a home automation system that presently uses an HP server with it's DNS provider to allow us to remotely access the house. The server is not reliable in that when ever the power goes off longer then the large UPS I have it shuts off and has to manually be restarted. We have power outages longer then any UPS will hold up the server and when that happens and we're on the road, we lose the ability to remotely access the house. I have upgraded the HAI system to allow us to use their app on our IPhone to remotely access the system, but I need a DNS provider. There are a lot of DNS providers, so who is the easiest to use, most reliable and cost effective provider?

05-19-2011, 04:32 PM	#6
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,939 Thanks: 534 Thanked 568 Times in 334 Posts	For what you are describing, DynDNS has the best solution for you. You can also run a client on a PC that can update the DynDNS servers when your IP changes, it doesn't have come from your router. __________________ [insert witty phrase here]

05-20-2011, 10:11 AM	#14
welchislandman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Welch Is, Gilford Posts: 79 Thanks: 91 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	Wake-on-LAN as an option Another option to look into on restarting the system after a power outage would be Wake-on-LAN. It uses the network to restart the system by sending a "magic packet" to the system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake-on-LAN If the pc supports this might be a nice way to restart. Some UPS systems and routers offer this support also ( see below) but if your staying with the current model you could do this manually from a website etc. more info on router support for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT If accessing BIOS isnt an easy option might also contact HP to see if they have a solution for you.

05-26-2011, 04:23 PM	#24
Lakepilot Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 446 Thanks: 70 Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts	Now works I got the DLink DIR655 router from B&H photo. I tried and tried to get it running with dyndns and couldn't. I noticed that DLink had a free ddns update client for that router. I tried that and within 5 minutes had it all running. DLink uses dyndns for their service, but DLinks instructions were spot on. Dyndns doesn't really want anyone to use the free service so they make it a bear to use.

05-29-2011, 08:42 AM	#25
Blue Pig Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 14 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	HP Server You're first problem is that you're using HP. HP generates 70% of its revenue from ink & print cartridges & 20% from personal laptops. So servers are just one of many things HP sucks at. If you're looking for some serious servers "connect to the network" & give a legitimate company like Cisco a shot. Plus Cisco's CEO John Chambers has a house is Alton Bay & supports local businesses!

05-19-2011, 10:41 AM	#2
welchislandman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Welch Is, Gilford Posts: 79 Thanks: 91 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	I am doing a similar configuration and do it a bit differently to cover power failures. - Server that auto reboots on power failure and power restore - I set this in BIOS - UPS that auto shuts system when few mins left of battery and restarts If the power is lost for lets say 1 hour the server starts back up after seeing AC available and the automation agents restart On the DNS question, are you looking to have your network available on the outside using DNS if your router changes IP address once in a while ? I use dydns, but the IP rarely changes for me ( I have fairpoint) http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/ jeff

05-19-2011, 01:26 PM	#3
Lakepilot Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 446 Thanks: 70 Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts	Our server is an HP Media Smart server, but it's pretty dumb. You can't plug a display into it. It's a preprogrammed stand alone box. There is no way to have it restart on power fail unless you manually hit the power button. I just signed up for DNS services with dyndns.org, but now I find my Apple router doesn't have a client update function built in, so now I'm off on another hunt. Thanks for the info. I'll let you know how I made out.

05-19-2011, 01:29 PM	#4
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,865 Thanks: 463 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	I use dyndns.com also, it works great, I've been using it for about 5 or 6 years now. I just use the free service, you have to update it once a month if your IP address doesn't change, they send you an email, I haven't gotten one in a while. My Netgear router handles the updates, I don't use a server. I just replaced the router (lightning strike last year was giving me trouble) for $79. I have an HAI system too, I use it for security, to run my bubbler and heat tapes plus strategic lights so I can see remotely at night with cameras. It's a great system and has saved many trips to check on things.

05-19-2011, 06:10 PM	#9
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I have a panasonic ethernet camera that has a dynamic dns client built in and a free dynamic dns service to use. Might be a cheap solution.

05-20-2011, 07:26 AM	#12
MikeF-NH Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 317 Thanks: 2 Thanked 120 Times in 80 Posts	Some UPSs have intelligence that will send a signal to the server to shut down gracefully if power is out more than a few minutes then send a boot signal to the server when power is restored. This is not a server function but a function of the UPS.

05-20-2011, 10:59 AM	#15
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I'm using a Panasonic KX HCM10, It's pretty old. I got it for $10 at a yard sale. The newer ones are more pricey.

05-23-2011, 07:33 AM	#18
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Sounds like you have two problems to solve. For your DNS I agree dnyDNS is a great solution for what you're looking for provided your address doesn't change often. Before going down that road I would find out what the lease time your service provider's DHCP server is handing you for your address. Many keep those short because they have a limited pool of addresses to play with and they cost money if they are not cycling off freed up addresses quickly meaning that address you're issued is bound to be released and handed back out should your system go off line. If it's that important to be able to access your system and not have the IP change on you I'd really consider getting a static one issued. Now as for your power, have you considered an IP based PDU? Basically it's a power strip you can control over wire, and power on any outlet remotely. Super handy to have. Unless you blow a breaker you'll always be able to bring your system up.

05-23-2011, 08:31 AM	#20
patman Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NH Posts: 378 Thanks: 56 Thanked 156 Times in 78 Posts	OP's need is to be able to contact the server(s) at the house one way or another. Having a fixed IP is one way, using dynDNS would eliminate needing to have a fixed IP. If you can get to it by the name registered via dynDNS, then you don't really even care what the IP underneath that name is. (That also depends a little on the specific remote access software, some of it is old enough to only allow putting in an IP address, but most of it is bright enough to accept an IP or a name.) The dynDNS registration could be done by some other system in the house, it doesn't have to be that server. Unless the server is plugged directly into the cable modem (which is unwise these days) it's really the router that is doing the DHCP negotiation anyway. Newer routers have built-in support for registering with the dynDNS (or similar) service after the IP lease is established. Getting the server to power on when the power comes back becomes the biggest problem. The BIOS isn't set to allow auto-power-on, and without spending some money on a KVM interface (as I posted above) you're down to hacking a relay into the power button, or making some sort of solenoid that physically presses the existing button. Essentially you'll end up needing some sort of home automation controller to control the thing that will power on your home automation controller. Another thing to consider is that you may not want the server to come back online immediately after power is restored. If it's partway through coming up and the power goes out again, it's unlikely that the UPS would have had enough time to charge to allow a graceful shutdown, so you'd end up with an ungraceful one. There's a lot of disk activity on bootup, so you end up playing Russian roulette that any given set of disk writes are going to make it out as a group. Eventually you'll lose that bet, which could cause filesystem problems that might kill the entire server. (Or at best, require some filesystem repair that you aren't going to be able to initiate remotely.) Ideally it would wait to boot up until the UPS could guarantee enough coast time to shut down. In the end...it might be time to find a smarter server.

05-23-2011, 12:50 PM	#23
Lakepilot Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 446 Thanks: 70 Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts	What I've done in the short term is that I have ordered a router that has a client update function. It will notify dyndns that our IP has changed and provide it with a new one. We'll see how that works after I get it and install it.

05-31-2011, 07:01 AM	#27
Lakepilot Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 446 Thanks: 70 Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts	BRK, you're right, the major difficulty I faced was getting the system up and running after a power loss too long for my APC's to handle. The HP server I used didn't restart. Other then that, at the time, they offered server products you couldn't get anywhere else. My aggravation with HP is that they new of the issue, since they corrected it on later models, but didn't offer an update to the operating system for my model. Various hackers had ways of dealing with it so I know the box could be restarted. I tend to be an early adopter and once again paid the price for being one of the first to do something. Cisco is also a great company. I don't want to slam them or HP. They've both had some issues recently. Blue Pig, I would check you numbers on HP's sales breakdown. It doesn't appear to be accurate. Dyndns has a list of dns certified routers. Three of them are Linksys, which was bought by Cisco, but my reading of the reviews on the dyndns site, indicated the DLink were better for what I wanted. And they've worked well. The network cameras I installed are also working very well. I've ordered more.

05-31-2011, 08:17 AM	#28
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,939 Thanks: 534 Thanked 568 Times in 334 Posts	Minor thing, but... It would be the BIOS, not the operating system, that would need to be updated. This is doable, but generally a bit cumbersome and prone to erros for the typical end-user. This might be why HP never released a BIOS update for the machine. It is also possible that the machine does not have the circuitry to sense power and initiate a bootup (unlikely, but possible). What network cameras did you install? __________________ [insert witty phrase here]