Help Ward Bird of Moultonborough

[sa meredith]

He cannot just be "let out". He was found guilty of a crime, by a jury of his peers.
The judge, at that point, has a law/sentencing guideline to follow. It is not open to "discretion".
Attack the law if you want to...start a petition to have the law changed.
So much has come out here..however...I realize the woman is a few sandwiches short of a picknic...but from what I have read, Ward is no stranger to confrontation...and seems to be the type to think that on his own land, he makes the laws.
Just my opinion...

[SAMIAM]

Hey..thanks for posting that, Rusty.......I followed your steps and learned something.

[fatlazyless]

"Prosecutor Susan Boone said that between trials Bird was offered a plea deal for reckless conduct, which carried no jail time but probation - and loss of his right to possess a gun - for two years. Bird said he rejected it because he did nothing wrong. He was convicted by a jury on June 30, 2008."

That's a quote which grabbed my attention that was taken from the middle of a very recent Associated Press article titled: "NH Farmer is folk hero for gun rights advocates."

Hmmmm....saying no to a plea bargain that would avoid prison time like that is definitely not a decision that I would have made myself. Like, what is the great big deal about carrying a handgun that is concealed. First of all, a .45 Sig is not a small gun, it is a very large gun that is heavy and large in overall size. Carrying that thing all loaded up with heavy lead bullets must be something like walking around all day with an Estwing 22-oz framing hammer in your back pocket.

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

And most importantly, saying no to the plea bargain like that was a very unusual decision. Like who would say no so they can keep their legal right to lug around a totally un-needed and very heavy handgun all day. Gee whiz...give me a break!

Is there anyone reading this that would have made the same decision to reject the plea bargain under the same circumstances as did Ward? His decision is very difficult to understand?

[Argie's Wife]

Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.

So, he's in jail for exercising his second amendment right and refusing to lie. Is that what's really going on here? I'm disgusted.

Bird did what he thought was the right thing to do. If I was in that position and felt I had done no wrong, I wouldn't take a hit either. Why should I have to plead guilty when I'm NOT? That's probably how Bird felt.

And FLL...

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

I live in a wonderful little town; I love Alton. But yet less than one mile from my house a woman, who I consider a friend, and who also serves on the town's board of selectmen, was assaulted in her own home one evening a couple of years ago. Her house isn't in the center of town, but she's hardly "in the sticks", as I'd consider it. The person who hurt my friend has never been caught and I've watched my friend go through quite a process dealing with this crime.

Yes, Virginia, there's crime in Central NH.

Just the incident with the Mt Vernon home invasion/murder/attempted murder should tell you that a rural community does not mean guaranteed safety!

After that incident, I don't consider ANY town in NH to be Mayberry RFD, if you catch my drift.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Saying "yes" to a plea bargain is an admission of fault.

Bird felt he had NOT done anything wrong and to admit he had been wrong would have been, in his opinion, a lie. He shouldn't have had to lie to comply with the plea bargain. He's been open, honest, and cooperative with law enforcement and the courts, as far as I know from what I've read.

Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Argie’s Wife,

I agree that Bird shouldn’t have to lie to comply with the plea bargain. However, if someone accused me of threatening them with a firearm, and I didn’t do it, I would be pounding my fist on the table, hollering and screaming that I DIDN’T DO IT, PLEASE SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME, I DIDN’T DO IT, SHE’S LIEING, I DIDN’T DO IT!!!!!!!
But what does Mr. Bird say during his trial? Nothing, absolutely nothing!

Sorry but that is not human nature to be so passive if you didn’t do something wrong….In My Honorable Opinion that is.

The actions you describe, if done in a court of law, would have resulted in Bird racking up even more charges and would not have helped his case one bit. If you read the transcripts from the case, and especially the sentence delivered by the judge, it is obvious that even the judge has a problem with it because it is a MANDATORY minimum sentence by NH RSA. The judge agrees that Bird is guilty but has a real problem with the mandated sentence vs. what he (the judge) considers an appropriate sentence. (Remember, the real purpose of a sentence isn't just to punish for a crime; it's to separate the criminal from society for isolation and rehabilitation.)

It shouldn't have taken Bird going to jail for 3-6 years to prove the point that there's a problem with the mandatory sentence, as it allows no autonomy for the judge in the decision process.

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

But you can't wave a gun at someone who, for the past 5-10 minutes has refused to leave your property and even said "F-U" to you, without spending a minimum of 3 years in jail.

Something is waaaayyyyy outta wack here.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

We live in a state where you can buy liquor off the highways just as you cross the line into NH but post huge "Don't Drink And Drive" signs along those highways. We allow motorcyclists to go without helmets and adults to ride in cars without seatbelts. You can buy guns and ammmo, beer and wine, at Wal-Marts in our state. We have no state income tax and one of the lowest tax burdens of any state. You can even carry a gun in the NH State House Chambers...

And don't forget, FIREWORKS

[Heaven]

Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he couldn't face (voluntarily)?

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Heaven

Could it be that he didn't plea bargain because he would have been required to give up his gun for a couple of years, which was something he could face (voluntarily)?

Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.
I'll stand beside and support a man or woman who fights for their beliefs, long before I'll stand beside a man or woman who rolls over and plays dead at the 1st chance to save their a$$, because it it the easy way out

[Pineedles]

MarkinNH you got it so right! It's all about integrity! There are people like Ward Bird, and there are people like the critics of him for not taking the deal here on this thread. I have never faced Ward's decision that he had to make, but I hope I would have as much integrity as he did.

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

Could it be that he didn't take the plea bargain because to do so would have been an admission of guilt.

That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Heaven

That has already been said.
My speculation is worthy also.
He is reported to have said that he "didn't think he needed" to take the stand. Had he known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, perhaps he would have chosen the other option.

So do you believe his lack of taking the stand is reason for you to cast doubt on his guilt or innocence?

It was discussed previously that if he took the stand, the prior incident with the shooting of the stump would have been fair game. It's possible his lawyer advised him not to take the stand believing the State of NH could not prove their case.

You could take Mother Theresa and make her look like a gang member witht the right prosecuter (think Duke Lacrosse). When you take the stand, it's very easy to paint someone in a bad light as so many things are fair game.

[Heaven]

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Heaven

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

I'm missing something here. Where does the 2 years come from? I was under the impression if you had a felony conviction you lost it for life. If he took the plea he would have, in effect, have a felony conviction.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Heaven

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

There are people who have been wrongly convicted of rape for one or two decases and turned down parole as it would require them to admit to the crime and show remorse.

I guess it depends on how strong your personal convictions are.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Heaven

No, I don't mean perhaps he would have chosen to take the stand. In light of the previous incident that wouldn't have been a smart bet.
I meant perhaps if he had known he would be found guilty and lose his gun for life, he would have instead taken the plea bargain and only lost his gun for 2 years.

I am no judge, attorney or professor of the law nor do I know the details of the plea bargain but I believe that to have taken the plea bargain or be found guilty, Ward was loosing his right to own and possess firearms for life either way. A felon is a felon. Ward's decision was based on seeking the truth not in attempt to save his right to posses firearms.
My son, due to certain stupidity's in his younger life and due to his minor criminal record is not even "legally" allowed in my home due to the fact that there are firearms in my home. He cannot even "legally" ride in my truck for the same reason.
His legal rights as to firearms ownership or even being in a location where there are firearms, are gone for the rest of his life.

[Heaven]

I understood the plea offered was not a felony

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Heaven

I understood the plea offered was not a felony

"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

[Lakesrider]

Why? For reasons like this. That happen everyday in this country.



If only this were Texas....Ward would be a free man.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

Bird doesn't have to answer that question; it's his RIGHT.

It's every American's right.

The better question is: why do we have a law with a minimum sentence like this on the books?

[Lakesrider]

I meant that in Texas he probably would not have been given a sentence as the one he got. They are a little different down there as far as guns go.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Hey FLL, great question. I have the same one. I cannot understand why he wouldn't have opted for a 1911 instead. Clearly a superior choice IMHO.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"I don't need people using me as a cause," Bird told the Associated Press. "I just want to be home with my family."

"The case was overwhelming at that point, we thought." Sisti said. "I was surprised the charge was brought, and I was shocked at the conviction."

Both quotes come from the AP article which you can easily find in todays' January 10 www.citizen.com down under the most read articles.

So with regard to the recent comments about standing on principal and not accepting a plea bargain because it would be an admission of guilt, an individual when faced with the choice of a plea bargain or prison time really needs to make a practical decision, with all things considered including one's family and the cost of legal defense.

If indeed the plea bargain offered was not a felony and meant losing one's legal right to carry for a two year period then that is NO BIG DEAL. Losing a carry permit for two years is not a big deal! Why in the world do people think a gun is a needed everyday item, to lug around all day, is beyond me. I do not get it? Ward worked as a farmer in Meredith at the Long Ridge Farm on Route 3, close to Laconia, so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

Has he ever replied to the question........'so why do you carry a gun?'

This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MarkinNH

This is the first and only halfway intelligant comment you have made in this entire thread.

Look who's talking! intelligent

[Bigstan]

so what's he all so concerned about that he needs a .45 Sig..........anyway?

I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Bigstan

I agree 100%. Give me my S&W 1076 or a 1911a1 (a Combat Commander will do as well) any day. Buy American!

Although there's been a name-change, SIGARMS was established in Exeter, New Hampshire over a decade ago.

Although it's a literal "mixed-bag", you can buy your own SIG-Sauer 1911 model that is made in the USA.

A "Granite State" edition is in production by them—now recently renamed "Revolution". You might want to buy this book through Amazon, but remember to buy one or more through this Winni.com site!

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

Well you know what they say about Opinions !!

[wuwu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e41v3...ayer_embedded#!
Great song!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"Prosecutor Susan Boone said that between trials Bird was offered a plea deal for reckless conduct, which carried no jail time but probation - and loss of his right to possess a gun - for two years. Bird said he rejected it because he did nothing wrong. He was convicted by a jury on June 30, 2008."

That's a quote which grabbed my attention that was taken from the middle of a very recent Associated Press article titled: "NH Farmer is folk hero for gun rights advocates."

Hmmmm....saying no to a plea bargain that would avoid prison time like that is definitely not a decision that I would have made myself. Like, what is the great big deal about carrying a handgun that is concealed. First of all, a .45 Sig is not a small gun, it is a very large gun that is heavy and large in overall size. Carrying that thing all loaded up with heavy lead bullets must be something like walking around all day with an Estwing 22-oz framing hammer in your back pocket.

Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

And most importantly, saying no to the plea bargain like that was a very unusual decision. Like who would say no so they can keep their legal right to lug around a totally un-needed and very heavy handgun all day. Gee whiz...give me a break!

Is there anyone reading this that would have made the same decision to reject the plea bargain under the same circumstances as did Ward? His decision is very difficult to understand?

YES I would.

Wow you really can't be serious.

Why would anyone agree to a plea deal if they believe they are innocent? The man believed he was and stood his ground on principal something liberals both lack and understand. Good for him, and you can bet this case is far from over.

Secondly you have no idea what you're talking about. A .45 SIG neither large nor heavy. Most of their automatics are polymer or alloy making them very light weight comparatively speaking AND are compact in size. Anyways what business is it of yours whether or not this gentleman has chosen to carry concealed or not - ESPECIALLY on his own property. That's his GOD given right to do so protected by the constitution.

Hey if you don't think it's necessary to have a gun or carry it, that's your choice I don't belittle you because you've made that decision. How dare you chastise those that do however just because in your elitist opinion you can't understand why they would.

Finally to your statement: Carrying a handgun for self protection in central New Hampshire is totally unneeded, in my opinion.

Tell that to my Dad who had some creep bust into his house high on drugs ranting like a raving lunatic in the middle of the night. He grabbed his pistol and held the guy at gun point until the cops arrived oh 15 minutes or so later after calling 911. Even the police chief admitted the outcome could have been much different had my Dad not been able to do what he did. So FLL I hope this never happens to you, but in the event that it does good luck defending yourself, I suggest telling the intruder to "shoo", is that politically correct enough for you?

[fatlazyless]

Better to be practical than to be "dead right," as in sticking with a losing decision just because you think you did nothing wrong. Better to cut your losses, take a plea bargain and stay out of jail.

If presented with the opportunity today to go through that decision process again, having been locked up since mid-November, what would Ward be thinking now? People who have completed a prison sentence and get out of jail, will do just about anything to stay out of jail. Principals are just an opinion that one thinks in one's mind, and people are perfectly capable of changing their minds, after all, it's just one person's opinion with regard to how they think on one subject.

If he had accepted the plea bargain then let's see where would he be today? Two years would have already passed since starting the probation-plea bargain process.......so where would Ward be? Is it better to say no to what seems like a very reasonable plea bargain and avoid a jail sentence or to be locked up in the Carroll County Jail, and get to wear a bright orange outfit all day, everyday?

What would you do?

............

Ok....and with regards for the need for a handgun in central New Hampshire.....in thinking about it....having one ready-to-use within one's home seems like a much more reasonable thing to do than carry one on one's person. For many many years, the police used .38 revolvers which are much less expensive than a modern Glock or a Sig and is all that's needed for home safety use. Sure, a police officer should have a semi-automatic which is a combat weapon but there's no need for one as a home safety tool when a revolver works fine and is less complicated to use.
........

Can someone post the entire article from the Associated Press, "New Hampshire farmer is folk hero for gun right's advocates."

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Better to be practical than to be "dead right,' as in sticking with a losing decision just because you think you did nothing wrong. Better to cut your losses, take a plea bargain and stay out of jail.

If presented with the opportunity today to go through that decision process again, having been locked up since mid-November, what would Ward be thinking now? People who have completed a prison sentence and get out of jail, will do just about anything to stay out of jail. Principals are just an opinion that one thinks in one's mind, and people are perfectly capable of changing their minds, after all, it's just one person's opinion with regard to how they think on one subject.

If he had accepted the plea bargain then let's see where would he be today? Two years would have already passed since starting the probation-plea bargain process.......so where would Ward be? Is it better to say no to what seems like a very reasonable plea bargain or to be locked up in the Carroll County Jail?

What would you do?

Had the founding fathers if this country applied your train of thought they never would have stood up to the crown in England. They risked their lives, fortunes and way of life to facilitate a revolution that forever changed this country. They did so based on principal, even though they faced staggering odds that it may not pan out in their favor and each and every one of them could face charges of treason and ultimately die as a result. I admire people like this that have a brass pair and will stand up to what they believe is right no matter the outcome. That's what made this country great, it's ultimate demise will be at the hands of spineless people who would prefer to avoid any kind of discomfort and in exchange choose to loose their liberties in the process.

James Madison sums it up very eloquently:

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

So FLL I hope this never happens to you, but in the event that it does good luck defending yourself, I suggest telling the intruder to "shoo", is that politically correct enough for you?

Remember that FLL has his trusty and leathal "broom" I am sure that would scare any hopped up lunatic away just by it's mere presence. Besides, after 30 seconds or so, of being in the same room with FLL, I suspect ANYONE would turn and run. If he flaps his jaw in person like he does on this forum, he would even need his "broom"