No Wake at the Barbers Pole...???

[Seaplane Pilot]

[QUOTE=VtSteve;145266]Your feeble attempts to characterize good people as drunks is pretty wild indeed. Especially given that you guys never talk about you know who, who's bar over served someone that caused a bad accident.QUOTE]

Excellent point - and one that should be exposed more than it has been. It's amazing how these "industry" supporters of the SL and WINFABS earn their millions in the hospitality industry, especially by selling alcohol. I can just see these businesspeople swallowing hard, thinking how much they hate the "THUNDER BOAT COWBOYS" while they're depositing all this money in the bank.

Let them keep digging their own graves - they look more and more rediculous every day.

[VtSteve]

[QUOTE=Seaplane Pilot;145294]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Your feeble attempts to characterize good people as drunks is pretty wild indeed. Especially given that you guys never talk about you know who, who's bar over served someone that caused a bad accident.QUOTE]

Excellent point - and one that should be exposed more than it has been. It's amazing how these "industry" supporters of the SL and WINFABS earn their millions in the hospitality industry, especially by selling alcohol. I can just see these businesspeople swallowing hard, thinking how much they hate the "THUNDER BOAT COWBOYS" while they're depositing all this money in the bank.

Let them keep digging their own graves - they look more and more rediculous every day.

Well that's our opinion of course. But we label it as such, and let people figure it out. I'm all for civility and open discussions. But when someone writes a letter to a paper, which makes blatant accusations, slanders the reputations of good people, and uses partial quotes out of context, and claims these are Facts, I will address them. When someone uses the term Thunder Clubs, I know for sure they don't know anything about the subject.

I'm quite sure that everyone here knows the difference between facts and opinions, and knows very well what the intentions are of the posters. Personally, I hold no malice towards any one group or type of boat, be it a sailing vessel or a canoe. The one thing all boats have in common is that they are on the water, and each and every one of them has a skipper who's responsibilities include;


Rule - 2, Responsibility, requires that due regard shall he given to all dangers of navigation and collision. This rule allows the mariner to depart from the rules as necessary to avoid the immediate danger of collision. This rule is often applied when the risk of collision between three or more vessels may occur. It is the mariner’s responsibility to take the necessary actions to avoid a collision.

Rule - 4 requires that every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper lookout using sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the possible risk of collision.

Rule - 6 requires that every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. In determining safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account: the visibility, traffic density, maneuverability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability, at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights, the state of the wind, sea, current, proximity of navigational hazards, and the draft in relation to the available depth of water. Additionally, vessels with operational radar must use that radar to its fullest extent to determine the risk of collision.

Rule - 7 Risk of Collision, states that every vessel shall use all available means to determine if risk of collision exists; if there is any doubt, assume that it does exist. Risk of collision shall be deemed to exist if the compass bearing from your vessel to an approaching vessel does not change. Constant bearing decreasing range (CBDR) is the term we use to describe this situation. Collision risk may sometimes exist even when appreciable bearing change is evident, particularly when approaching a very large vessel or a vessel towing or when approaching a vessel at very close ranges

Rule 8, Action to Avoid Collision, provides specific guidance on how to maneuver your vessel so as to avoid a collision. Changes in course and speed shall be large enough so as to be readily apparent to the other vessel. If there is sufficient sea room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid a close quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result in another close quarters situation. If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to assess the situation, a vessel shall slacken her speed or take all way off by stopping or reversing her propulsion. A vessel which is required not to impede the passage of another vessel shall take early and substantial action to allow sufficient sea room for the passage of the other vessel.

Rule 9, Narrow Channels, states that a vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel which lies on her starboard (right) side as is safe and practicable, A vessel less than 20 meters in length or sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel, which can safely navigate only within the narrow channel.

Rule 14, Head-On Situation, states that vessels which are approaching head-on shall alter course to starboard so each will pass port to port.

Rule 15, Crossing Situation, states that when two power driven vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other vessel on her starboard side shall keep out of the way, and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel.



Our waterways have been successfully shared by all that have the courtesy and respect to understand that they are not the only people on the water, and they must abide by certain rules of the road. These rules are for everyone, not just some boats or some people.

[VtSteve]

My memory is just fine APS. I was so harsh in my criticism of the NWZ speeder that I think even BI thought I was a little overboard, so to speak I would have him kicked off the lake and also spend a few days or more behind bars. Spin that.

I'm also very well aware of the alcohol problems on the waterways. I've repeatedly mentioned them, and have been repeatedly tromped on by some SL supporters for it. I mentioned many times that most of the accidents you speak of involve excessive alcohol consumption, but many boaters, not just in any one group. If anyone on this forum remembers otherwise, please chime in.

APS, you're a smart guy for sure. Is there any reason we can't have real adult conversations without you spinning and trying to paint people in a bad light? If you can't even address what I have actually said, it must not fit your ongoing agenda. This is the point where I will stand by what I have posted. There are thousands of views on these threads, so there must be thousands of folks that well know what I have stated, and what I stand for. I'll let your insinuations stand for what they are as well.

[RANGER CANOE CO]

Grey hair, probably been riding forever on Winni.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by RANGER CANOE CO

Grey hair, probably been riding forever on Winni.

That's a real big/fast boat to have on the lake. Doesn't it belong on the ocean?

[ApS]

...still...

Originally Posted by VtSteve

My memory is just fine APS. I was so harsh in my criticism of the NWZ speeder...I would have him kicked off the lake and also spend a few days or more behind bars.

Your primary objection was his "fleeing the NHMP". (An easy charge to beat, especially when your noisy boat is a 130-MPH Outer-Limits ocean-racer).

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Is there any reason we can't have real adult conversations without you spinning and trying to paint people in a bad light?...I mentioned many times that most of the accidents you speak of involve excessive alcohol consumption, but many boaters, not just in any one group.

There's one group that regards "risk" so dismissively that—in their own minds—alcohol doesn't increase their own personal risk at all.

Sadly, they only wake up after impacting the lives of others.

Who cares about all those lesser boats, going who-knows-where?

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I'll let your insinuations stand for what they are as well.

It's no insinuation to see you've "cherry-picked" USCG regulations, so we're not burdened here with having to review the dangers over-sized boats pose to so many others on this inland lake—with its 253 scattered islands.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Completely false statement. Besides myself OCD has posted a few informative posts. But here we go with facts again those just don't seem to matter to you guys?

Your link didn't include OCD, who I consider one of your little, but noisy, group—anyway.

Originally Posted by RANGER CANOE CO

Grey hair, probably been riding forever on Winni.

I've built three wood boats—and owned four.

With every turn of a brass screw and the driving of every bronze boat nail, you watch as the curves come together and eventually you refer to your wood boat as "her" or "she".

Nobody respects life on the water more than someone who has blood, skin and sweat in the varnishing, inspecting, repair and painting of the wood boat they have built themselves.

But on the lake, there are too few who can say that today—with their boats and credit—in this "Age of Plastic".

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Let them keep digging their own graves - they look more and more rediculous every day.

I think you meant to write ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

It's amazing how these "industry" supporters of the SL and WINFABS earn their millions in the hospitality industry, especially by selling alcohol. I can just see these businesspeople swallowing hard, thinking how much they hate the "THUNDER BOAT COWBOYS" while they're depositing all this money in the bank.

Sorry...

...We had no idea your group was so important.

[sunset on the dock]

From today's LDS:


Letters
Take a look at YouTube video of boat traffic in Barber Pole channel
Dec 08, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

I was pleased to read Michael Kitch's article in the December 3 edition covering the establishment of a No Wake Zone (NWZ) in the Barber Pole channel in Tuftonboro. As some of your readers may be aware, many of the Barber Pole residents were surprised and disappointed by the N.H. Department of Safety's reversal of its ruling last month, after citing safety and erosion concerns in their ruling earlier this summer. It was argued by our attorney at the October rehearing that the rules for legitimacy of signatures are vague, ambiguous, and confusing.

During the previous attempt to establish a NWZ in the summer of 2008, a video of some of the boating chaos in the 390' channel between buoy #17 and shore was recorded. The link to the video is: http://youtu.be/2F5Ljbskh_o

I urge your readers to view the footage for themselves to understand why the Department of Safety determined that "There is not sufficient availability and practicality of enforcement" to ensure safety in the channel absent no-wake limitations.

C. Clark

Tuftonboro

[steve c]

I qoute from the Decision and Order dated July 30 2010,

"The video, presented in support of an appeal of the
2008 denial was not persuasive"

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/h...craft2010.html



Clearly the video was created for a desired effect. The green kayak was clearly part of the cast and who knows how many others were involved!
Any one can create a video to support any point being made. That is why the State deemed it "Inconclusive" Nice Try Christy Clark

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by steve c

I qoute from the Decision and Order dated July 30 2010,

"The video, presented in support of an appeal of the
2008 denial was not persuasive"

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/h...craft2010.html



Clearly the video was created for a desired effect. The green kayak was clearly part of the cast and who knows how many others were involved!
Any one can create a video to support any point being made. That is why the State deemed it "Inconclusive" Nice Try Christy Clark

Interesting first post! Among the appellants I noticed quite a few SBONH people but interestingly enough one that looks like it could possibly be you...speaking of being able "to suppport any point being made"...not that anyone has any bias of their own here.
My point: Are you related to C. Clark ? It would be an ironic twist...I can see the headline now..."Barber Pole Couple to Divorce over Disagreement on NO Wake Zone".

[steve c]

We are still together...........I'm the one in the green kayak trying to create
unsafe conditions for the camera!

[Dave R]

I could not sit through the whole video, it was too shaky. Would have been much easier to watch and more informative if the zoom was backed way out. By zooming in so much it was impossible to see the big picture.

Looked busy, but I didn't see anything that looked truly unsafe. Might have been a few 150' violations, but it was really hard to tell with the zoom being changed too much.

I liked that motorboats were passing behind the sailboat.

Does anyone have any quality video of typical weekend traffic there?

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I could not sit through the whole video, it was too shaky. Would have been much easier to watch and more informative if the zoom was backed way out. By zooming in so much it was impossible to see the big picture.

Looked busy, but I didn't see anything that looked truly unsafe. Might have been a few 150' violations, but it was really hard to tell with the zoom being changed too much.

I liked that motorboats were passing behind the sailboat.

Does anyone have any quality video of typical weekend traffic there?

You are right Dave R,

All that time and effort to create a video and then to be done with such sloppy creativity....unbelievable...this video does not help their effort to show the conditions at the BP! IMHO it just creates more hard feelings between the two groups.

[ishoot308]

That video is a joke at best. It's like Darth Vader meets the Blair Witch Project!

It's zoomed in so much to make boats look closer and going faster than they really are. It is very apparent this video was made to falsely represent the issue.

Dan

[hazelnut]

Re-post from earlier


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNPvKdE3HHE

Kayaking and Canoeing on a Saturday Morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3CK7impBxM

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Guess What??

Tom Hilbink and his non-resident friends are at it again. According to the Laconia Daily Sun, www.laconiadailysun.com, he filed a petition last week for a no-wake zone at the Barber Pole.

What can be done to keep this agitator from making life miserable for so many boaters? Obviously, many of us will attend any locally held public hearings this summer, but it is imperative that we all are kept informed. Can someone get a copy of the new petition so that we have plenty of time to thoroughly investigate all the signers?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Guess What??

Tom Hilbink and his non-resident friends are at it again. According to the Laconia Daily Sun, www.laconiadailysun.com, he filed a petition last week for a no-wake zone at the Barber Pole.

From the last paragraph of the news report, it says that signers of the petition can be either Tuftonboro residents or property owners, so signing the petition is not just restricted to residents which is an intelligent rule.

Seems REASONABLE & PRUDENT that the local island property owners should be able to sign on to the petition...........doesn't it!

[Sue Doe-Nym]

It would, except that last time they had a lot of non-property owners sign the petition, as I recall.

[Pineedles]

SBONH protected the rights of those living near the Barber Pole and all Winnipesaukee boaters the last time. It will be up to the residents to decide what they want to do with this (5th?) challenge to their rights. Your voice counts! Let the Gov't people know what you want! If you want a no wake zone, let them know. If you don't want a no wake zone let them know!

[lawn psycho]

I think the bar should be much higher for the number of signatures required before passing any law or new regulation on a State owned body of water.

Hopefully the petition is denied after the hearings. What sucks is most of the stuff being requested is not evidence based but simple perceptions.

In Westbrook, ME there was a neighborhood up in arms about the speed limit. After some hub-bub the police did measurements and found the average speed was only 1-2 MPH above the limit. The existing speed limit stayed......

Given how wakes a generated from boats getting off and going onto plane the cure is worse than the disease. However, if it's really not wakes they are after then of course we all know why someone would could possibly want a no-wake zone....

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...still...

Your primary objection was his "fleeing the NHMP". (An easy charge to beat, especially when your noisy boat is a 130-MPH Outer-Limits ocean-racer).


There's one group that regards "risk" so dismissively that—in their own minds—alcohol doesn't increase their own personal risk at all.

Sadly, they only wake up after impacting the lives of others.

Who cares about all those lesser boats, going who-knows-where?



It's no insinuation to see you've "cherry-picked" USCG regulations, so we're not burdened here with having to review the dangers over-sized boats pose to so many others on this inland lake—with its 253 scattered islands.


Your link didn't include OCD, who I consider one of your little, but noisy, group—anyway.


I've built three wood boats—and owned four.

With every turn of a brass screw and the driving of every bronze boat nail, you watch as the curves come together and eventually you refer to your wood boat as "her" or "she".

Nobody respects life on the water more than someone who has blood, skin and sweat in the varnishing, inspecting, repair and painting of the wood boat they have built themselves.

But on the lake, there are too few who can say that today—with their boats and credit—in this "Age of Plastic".


I think you meant to write ridiculous.


Sorry...

...We had no idea your group was so important.

Thank you for correcting my spelling error - quite nice of you! By the way, "KWI" (Kayaking While Intoxicated) is also against the law.