Help Ward Bird of Moultonborough

[fatlazyless]

Yes, a gun unlike a knife has pretty much just one purpose, while a broom has both a broom handle on one end and a straw broom end at the other so it is perceived to be much less threatening. One can say something like; "While sweeping the floor, I heard a tap-tap-tap on the window so I stepped outside to see who was there?" if a county attorney decides it is reasonable to throw the book at you for defending yourself with a broom.

[DickR]

Hazlenut said: "We can never know for sure what Ward was actually thinking or feeling and we will never know 100% how the woman was behaving at the time."

He's right, of course. But neither could the jury know, for sure. Wouldn't that uncertainty have constituted "reasonable doubt," preventing a conviction?

Should Ward be released? - yes, we think so.

Was he an "unintended consequence" of a perhaps poorly crafted law? - yes, we think so.

Did the case get out of hand, driven by personalities? - yes, we think so.

Can we really resolve the case on this forum, knowing less than what presumably the jury knew? - probably not.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by DickR

Hazlenut said: "We can never know for sure what Ward was actually thinking or feeling and we will never know 100% how the woman was behaving at the time."

He's right, of course. But neither could the jury know, for sure. Wouldn't that uncertainty have constituted "reasonable doubt," preventing a conviction?

Should Ward be released? - yes, we think so.

Was he an "unintended consequence" of a perhaps poorly crafted law? - yes, we think so.

Did the case get out of hand, driven by personalities? - yes, we think so.

Can we really resolve the case on this forum, knowing less than what presumably the jury knew? - probably not.

I don't know how to sum it up any better than this!

[VitaBene]

I will add one further comment- never, ever make a statement to the Police without legal counsel.

NEVER!!

[nvtngtxpyr]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I will add one further comment- never, ever make a statement to the Police without legal counsel.

NEVER!!

Excellent advice VB. Take the time to view the attached if you want to know why.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

[jeffatsquam]

Go to the laconia citz. for today's letters to the editor.

Letter from Gorden Blise re. Ward Bird.

He has had dealings with Chirstin (the combat-en) Harris

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by jeffatsquam

Go to the laconia citz. for today's letters to the editor.

Letter from Gorden Blise re. Ward Bird.

He has had dealings with Chirstin (the combat-en) Harris

Here it is for the less inclined:

Editor, The Citizen:

I have been following the recent events concerning the terrible travesty of justice concerning Moulntonborough resident Ward Bird. While I do not know Mr. Bird and have never met him, I feel I must speak out on his behalf.

From what I have read Mr. Bird has always been an outstanding citizen of our Lakes Region Community, a hard working man, who takes care of his family, pays his taxes, a man who can be trusted and always tries to do the right thing. He is now sitting in jail for exercising his constitutional right to protect his home and property against an intruder.

As it so happens I know the person who was the cause of this entire injustice. A few weeks before the incident on Mr. Bird's property I met this woman as part of a potential business deal and tried to work with her to meet the goals she was trying to attain. I can tell you for a fact that I quickly found out she was delusional, who was not thinking or acting in any way rational. She became angry and made accusations that were unfounded and absurd and I quickly broke off all dealings with her. After talking with other colleagues in my field I learned that others have had dealings with her before she came to me. They coined her with the nickname "the crazy lady". This incident I had with her occurred just a few weeks before her encounter with Mr. Bird.

As I understand things this woman has since been incarcerated for an animal cruelty conviction. I sincerely hope she is receiving the help she needs for mental health issues as I know she was clearly in need of that kind of assistance.

Also I believe none of these facts about her could be brought out at Mr. Bird's trial and she was portrayed as a poor innocent lady who was lost and had simply wandered onto his property by mistake. I do not believe that is true given what I know about this woman.

We all know that Amendment Two of the Bill of Rights in our Constitution states: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." But we also know that we are a nation of laws, and to allow everyone to brandish weapons against our fellow citizens at a whim would not be logical. So the states pass laws that regulate how citizens can use weapons under various circumstances. I understand that this is necessary otherwise chaos would reign and we would all be walking around armed all the time feeling we need this protection to defend ourselves. But clearly a man has a right to protect his home, family, and property, against an intruder whose motives are unclear. This is part of the core values of our American way of life.

I am not a lawyer, and I do not know all the specific details of the encounter Mr. Bird had with this woman, but from everything I have read, and what I know, I believe that Mr. Bird was unfairly convicted and incarcerated. After all, while a firearm was shown it was never fired and nobody was hurt in any way.

If a crime was committed, does this punishment fit? I think not.

I am calling on Governor Lynch to look into this matter immediately, and to free Mr. Bird, overturn his conviction, clear his record and bring him home to his family for the Christmas Holliday. Also to look into the laws that led to this man's unjust incarceration and rewrite them to allow the citizens to protect that which is ours, and those that we love.

I call on all the citizens of this great state to call their representatives and demand they put pressure on Governor Lynch to do the right thing. I feel so strongly about this that if he does not move to free Mr. Bird the citizens of this state ought to move for immediate impeachment. We must send a message to our elected officials that we the citizens have right to protect our families, and property and nothing less will be acceptable. LIVE FREE OR DIE.

Gordon Blais

Meredith

[ishoot308]

Gordon Blais couldn't have stated it any better!! He pretty much summed it all up.

Dan

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

As it so happens I know the person who was the cause of this entire injustice. A few weeks before the incident on Mr. Bird's property I met this woman as part of a potential business deal and tried to work with her to meet the goals she was trying to attain. I can tell you for a fact that I quickly found out she was delusional, who was not thinking or acting in any way rational. She became angry and made accusations that were unfounded and absurd and I quickly broke off all dealings with her. After talking with other colleagues in my field I learned that others have had dealings with her before she came to me. They coined her with the nickname "the crazy lady". This incident I had with her occurred just a few weeks before her encounter with Mr. Bird.

As I understand things this woman has since been incarcerated for an animal cruelty conviction. I sincerely hope she is receiving the help she needs for mental health issues as I know she was clearly in need of that kind of assistance.

Gordon Blais

Meredith

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.....Why would a realtor who is affiliated with a well respected real-estate agency such as Maxfield Real Estate, Inc. make such slanderous remarks about one of his former clients. Also why would he make statements about what his colleagues think about Harris.

I don't know anything about the Code of Ethics for realtors, but there must be something written about client confidentiality.

I think if I owned Maxfield Real Estate, Inc., Mr. Bais would have some explaining to do.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I'm sorry but I just don't get it.....Why would a realtor who is affiliated with a well respected real-estate agency such as Maxfield Real Estate, Inc. make such slanderous remarks about one of his former clients. Also why would he make statements about what his colleagues think about Harris.

I don't know anything about the Code of Ethics for realtors, but there must be something written about client confidentiality.

I think if I owned Maxfield Real Estate, Inc., Mr. Bais would have some explaining to do.

Sam,

He never identifies himself as a Realtor nor which company he is affiliated with. We don't even know if it is RE deal. He actually goes out of his way to call it a business deal and not a RE deal.

Her whackiness is a matter of public record, so no slander there.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Sam,

......

Her whackiness is a matter of public record, so no slander there.

My thought exactly....

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Sam,

He never identifies himself as a Realtor nor which company he is affiliated with. We don't even know if it is RE deal. He actually goes out of his way to call it a business deal and not a RE deal.

Her whackiness is a matter of public record, so no slander there.

He is not listed on Maxfield's site as an agent either. My place has been for sale and the contract just ended. I like honest people that stand up for what they think is right. If he was with Maxfield, I was going to give him my listing.

R2B

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

He is not listed on Maxfield's site as an agent either. My place has been for sale and the contract just ended. I like honest people that stand up for what they think is right. If he was with Maxfield, I was going to give him my listing.

R2B

http://www.luxuryrealestate.com/prof...2-gordon-blais

[Resident 2B]

Sam,

Thanks!

I'll contact him. I did not see him on their main site.

R2B

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

Sam,

Thanks!

I'll contact him. I did not see him on their main site.

R2B

You are welcome and good luck.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I don't know how to sum it up any better than this!

Yes, some how I missed that post and I highly agree with you and DickR. Thank you for quoting him.
Several times I have told myself to just stay away from this thread, that I have said all I can and I am doing nothing more then arguing and repeating myself. Next thing I know, I am here running my mouth and posting again.

[sa meredith]

Couple of final thoughts for me...(in case you missed it, check out the link in post 156)
I'm curious, after reading about Bird's day in court, why the Harris woman's previous indiscretions with the law, and her history of mental instability, were not allowed to be entered. They are indeed so relevant. Here is a woman, who I know to very abrasive and confrontational, who has refused, in the past, to comply with an officer of the law, that had a search warrant in hand.
That smacked a tow truck driver trying to remove her two illegal cars from her trailor.
Who thought living in a trailor with 50 dogs was an "OK" thing.
Who has a history of acting, let's say..."a little off".
Bird probably realized pretty quickly her elevator didn't go all the way up, and wondered what her deal was.
Further more...and this is compete speculation...I seriously question her ability to enter into any finacial agreement to buy property.
So..adding everything together...perhaps she went there with some sort of agenda. Seems like simply math in the court of common sense.

[tis]

It's not allowed sa meredith.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

.... I'm curious, after reading about Bird's day in court, why the Harris woman's previous indiscretions with the law, and her history of mental instability, were not allowed to be entered. They are indeed so relevant. ...

Originally Posted by tis

It's not allowed sa meredith.

I guess that is what I find as strange about the NH legal system. In RI certain things are allowed if they pertain to the witness state of mind, that is, the ability tell the truth, make rational decisions and present true factual testimony. Based on what I have read about her background, any 3rd rate defense attorney in RI would have ripped her apart even if 2/3 of her background was not allowed in court.

[fatlazyless]

Today's December 2 www.concordmonitor.com has an editorial, "Clarify the Criminal Threatening Laws," on Ward Bird's arrest for felony threatening that takes a look at the NH law and some of the legal thinking behind it........and a lot of follow up comments.......pretty interesting stuff......which will probably lead to more disagreements over his guilty verdict.

[tis]

The Court is a strange place. They don't allow a lot of things in testimony, even things that are totally relevant in most people's opinion. They are not allowed for various reasons, many of which I would certainly question.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by tis

The Court is a strange place. They don't allow a lot of things in testimony, even things that are totally relevant in most people's opinion. They are not allowed for various reasons, many of which I would certainly question.

Let’s say that the jury heard testimony about all the bad things that Harris did in her life time. Would that have made a difference as far as the verdict is concerned?

Maybe and maybe not.

“Maybe” because no one wants the bad guy to win and the good guy to lose.

“ Maybe not” because it appears that Bird admitted to the police that he did have a gun and did something with it during the confrontation with Harris.

IMHO I think if we could read the police report it would help us understand how Bird was convicted of felony criminal threatening.

I think that if it was just a matter of he said she said, Mr. Bird would not be in jail right now.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Yes, a gun unlike a knife has pretty much just one purpose

And if I may be so stupid as to ask, what one purpose is that?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

And if I may be so stupid as to ask, what one purpose is that?

Most handguns are expensive, high quality design, high quality steel, precision made mechanisms that are capable of repeatedly firing hundreds and even thousands of rounds, and get treated accordingly by their owners. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the butt of a handgun handle would ever get used as a hammer, or that the barrel would get used as a prybar. Basically, a handgun gets used for its' one and only intended purpose and that is to fire a bullet. And yes, it is much more likely "to have a gun and not need one, than to need one and not have one" which strongly alludes to having a handgun for self defense without ever firing a round, which is still based on the gun's single purpose which is to fire a round.

A knife is indeed a very different type of a weapon, because by its' design a knife can be used for a number of non-weapon uses such as slicing an apple, scraping an old state inspection sticker off a windshield, or opening up the top on a can of tuna fish if you had no can opener.

Here's a simple question for you? If you needed to remove a state inspection sticker from a windshield would you ever use your Colt 45 as a scraper tool? Sure, it is probably possible to find a corner edge on a handgun to work as a scraper but would you ever honestly be doing that?
.................

Growing up in Massachusetts, I learned to differentiate between the concept of self-protection when inside one's dwelling, ie house, apartment, condo, etc, and self-protection when on one's land. It is my view that the justice system in both Massachusetts and New Hampshire take a dim view on showing a hand gun when out on one's land, but do indeed take a much less negative view on showing or pointing a handgun when inside one's dwelling as a defensive action.

As I see by reading through all these posts it does not appear that this concept of differentiating the use of a handgun when inside your house as opposed to outside on the land has been discussed. That was always a primary issue in Massachusetts to be considered when thinking about the legal system and the appropriate law and how it thought along the issue of self-defense for inside and for outside. In Massachusetts, I'm pretty sure it makes a big difference.

..................

"You watch zombie movies, do you?" ... Argie's Wife

Yes, I'm a long time, big fan of zombie movies! And back in 1974 I got to play the lead role in a little seen movie: "The Cockroach that Ate Cincinnati." Thanks for asking.......such a memory! ..

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

.... And back in 1974 I got to play the lead role in a little seen movie: "The Cockroach that Ate Cincinnati." ....

The song The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati was released in 1974
........

The movie The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati was released in 1996
95 min - Comedy | Sci-Fi

Storyline
The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati is about rock & roll, hero worship, hallucinations, drugs, madness, myth, rebellion and the search for individual integrity in a world on the brink of cultural and physical self-destruction. Written by Michael McNamara

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115919/

*** sigh ***

[tis]

Poor Ward Bird is not the only one who got a crazy sentence. Did you hear about the 27 year old guy in NJ (I think it was) who had 2 legal guns in his car and is spending 7 years in prison. How do these judges come up with these sentences. Yet the Supreme Court just ruled that an illegal who used his own name but another's ss number to get a job didn't do anything wrong. Could it be it is politically incorrect to blame an illegal for anything??? Give me a break. (Not to go off topic but just to show how unfair things are sometimes.)

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Most handguns are expensive, high quality design, high quality steel, precision made mechanisms that are capable of repeatedly firing hundreds and even thousands of rounds, and get treated accordingly by their owners. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that the butt of a handgun handle would ever get used as a hammer, or that the barrel would get used as a prybar. Basically, a handgun gets used for its' one and only intended purpose and that is to fire a bullet. And yes, it is much more likely "to have a gun and not need one, than to need one and not have one" which strongly alludes to having a handgun for self defense without ever firing a round, which is still based on the gun's single purpose which is to fire a round.

A knife is indeed a very different type of a weapon, because by its' design a knife can be used for a number of non-weapon uses such as slicing an apple, scraping an old state inspection sticker off a windshield, or opening up the top on a can of tuna fish if you had no can opener.

Here's a simple question for you? If you needed to remove a state inspection sticker from a windshield would you ever use your Colt 45 as a scraper tool? Sure, it is probably possible to find a corner edge on a handgun to work as a scraper but would you ever honestly be doing that?
.................

Growing up in Massachusetts, I learned to differentiate between the concept of self-protection when inside one's dwelling, ie house, apartment, condo, etc, and self-protection when on one's land. It is my view that the justice system in both Massachusetts and New Hampshire take a dim view on showing a hand gun when out on one's land, but do indeed take a much less negative view on showing or pointing a handgun when inside one's dwelling as a defensive action.

:

Fire a bullet is an acceptable answer. At least you didn't say kill. However, I have many guns that not a single bullet has been fired from the muzzle and I don't intend to do so ever. They are collector issue guns. They will appreciate in value much more if they are not used for what you call, their one and only purpose. So, these firearms are non-weapons, imo.

Sorry for getting off topic. I believe Ward Bird was wrongly convicted and pray for his release.