No Wake at the Barbers Pole...???

[VtSteve]

Who owns this Squirrel Island? Maybe a poster here?

It's always nice when something is stopped for the right reasons. It seems that many people now want to pass legislation in the dark of night, and let as few people know about it as possible. Oh well, there are lots of devious people out there with nothing better to do. They hate the fact that somewhere out there, someone might be having a good time

Well kudos to those that sent them back to their dark caves. Always nice when people are thoughtful.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Who owns this Squirrel Island? Maybe a poster here?

It's always nice when something is stopped for the right reasons. It seems that many people now want to pass legislation in the dark of night, and let as few people know about it as possible. Oh well, there are lots of devious people out there with nothing better to do. They hate the fact that somewhere out there, someone might be having a good time

Well kudos to those that sent them back to their dark caves. Always nice when people are thoughtful.

I think it's becoming standing room only in these caves! More to follow, that's for sure.
Happy Veteran's Day

[Turtle Boy]

Somehow I think SBONH's presence in this controversy will not help with their long term plans and agenda and they will regret their involvement. This article appears in today's Laconia Daily Sun.

Thanks to "safe" boaters, full throttle through Barber Pole is OK
Nov 17, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

The New Hampshire Department of Safety has reversed its earlier decision that had established a No Wake Zone in the narrow and often busy Barber's Pole channel of Lake Winnipesaukee, at the request of a group of boaters headed by a member of a performance boating club calling itself the "Active Thunder Cult".

The Department of Safety makes this reversal based on a technicality raised by this boating group, despite having earlier found that without the no-wake designation, present law "does not provide adequate safety" and that "No Wake speed along this route within Lake Winnipesaukee will improve public safety; maintenance of residential, recreational, and scenic values; variety of uses; and, environment and water quality."

Using the moniker "Safe Boaters of New Hampshire", the boating group, whose founder has stated a primary mission of having Lake Winnipesaukee's boating speed limit repealed, has arranged so that most boaters may again travel full throttle through the narrow 2-way channel, even after the Department of Safety had determined that "There is not sufficient availability and practicality of enforcement" to ensure safety in the channel absent no-wake speed limitations.

Ed Chase

Meredith

[NoRegrets]

Some look for the ugly in every situation. Amazing!

[rockythedog]

Turtle Boy, is that an article written by an unbiased journalist or the ravings of some wack-job in a letter to the editor? Do you even know the difference?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by rockythedog

Turtle Boy, is that an article written by an unbiased journalist or the ravings of some wack-job in a letter to the editor? Do you even know the difference?

I would go with curtain # 2

Dan

[Turtle Boy]

For your reading pleasure, from today's LDS:

Letters
State has changed no-wake-zones to anything goes a number of times
Nov 18, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Mr. Chase should be nominated for Safety Commissioner or perhaps Hearings Supervisor due to the fact that the present office holders are opening a can of worms that could go back as much as 50 plus years. They seem to think they can change their minds when someone squawks that they didn't have time to read the hearing notices in the only statewide newspaper and this malarkey about only residents can sign petitions but anybody in the entire state can file appeals against rulings is a drastic mis-interpretation.

Many lake users went to the appeals hearing in Tuftonboro but weren't allowed to speak unless we were appellants and yet we were told that we all own Lake Winnipesaukee. Something is drastically wrong with this picture. As a boater who uses the "Barber Pole" passage on occasion, I believe someone should get out the measuring stick; the channel is not wide enough to allow two vessels going in opposite, or the same, ways the 450-foot clearance to allow speeds up to 45-mph by the current law, nor does it allow PWC's the 600 foot clearance to exceed headway speeds. However we were not allowed to bring this information forward during the appeals hearing. There are many areas on the lake that don't allow these clearances and yet the Safety Department has changed them from "No-Wake-Zones" to do what ever you please zones a number of times. One that comes to mind is the passage in Glendale between Pig Island and Locke Island that for many years was a "No-Wake-Zone", at least from 1969 through the late 1970s and then one year it did not appear on the chart due to a typographical error so the Marine Patrol removed the NWZ indicators and now boats literally fly through the area defying the 150 foot separation requirement as well as the need to slow to headway speed. This area is just around the corner from Marine Patrol Headquarters.

We might ask who verified the signatures for residency that were supplied, by NH Recreational Boaters Association, on petitions for the Eagle Island NWZ that was put into place a year or three ago ? And why aren't Center Harbor and Wolfeboro bays as well protected with NWZ's as are Alton and Meredith bays ? If one of the Department of Safety responsibilities is to provide for the safety of all users of Lake Winnipesaukee when and how, other than college kids riding around in patrol boats, don't they address these issues rather than waiting for the populace to request some actions that are so glaringly obvious ?

Bill Bertholdt

[VtSteve]

It's called being Above Board. I would think that residents and property owners have the right to at least know what's going on behind their backs. I also find it very disingenuous for some to suggest (continually), that in this particular area of the lake, boaters do whatever they choose. You are not only inferring that the SL law and the Safe Passage rules are not working, but you're narrowing it down to this one area. All that after saying how wonderful the lake has been, and how safe it is, after the SL law's passage. Kind of a spin no?

As was clearly evident from the multitude of posts here, residents and other boaters of the BP area were studying the facts of the NWZ issue, and also debating it's pros and cons. That's the way things get done in civilized society. Sometimes it works well, other times maybe not so well. But it's out in the open, and people get their input. There were some pretty good suggestions and discussions overall. Sorry to see some people don't like open discussions.

I'd also like to add that SBONH, as they have stated many times, took no stance on the NWZ issue. They preferred to leave the discussion and debate up to the people it would impact the most. In other words, SBONH did not formulate a knee-jerk response. Good form. I say judge them for what they do, not by what people that use fictitious names in newspapers say.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Regarding ALL the discussion that's been had in this thread and the two letters to the editor posted here, how can the BP NWZ not be wide enough for two boats to pass each other while maintaining the minimum 150' between both crafts and shore? Using Google Earth, I measured the width of that area; the minimum width I found, shore to shore, was 825 ft while other areas were greater than 900 ft. Two boats passing each other would need an absolute minimum of 450' to allow for distances between themselves and shore on either side. Even if you allow 500', that STILL leaves 300'+ to maintain distance from other boats and shore. What am I missing when so many people are saying it's too narrow?!?!?

Just for reference, the Eagle Island NWZ measured at 710' at it's narrowest, also using Google Earth. I can't tell you how many boats I've seen blowing through this one on plane; I've even caught the Doris E (or Sophie C, I don't remember which) buzzing through without slowing down!

Granted, I don't know how accurate (or inaccurate) Google Earth is when it comes to measuring but unless someone has strung a tape measure across or used surveying instruments, it's close enough for me!

[VtSteve]

You're not missing anything. Except for this one area on the lake, every-thing's just peachy

[gtagrip]

Why is it that all are in agreement with what SBONH exposed this scam except 3 or 4 people in this forum. They tried to sneak a NWZ through the process and got called on it. I guess it's only the sneaks in this forum that are upset about it.

[VtSteve]

I like those odds actually

The real people without an agenda were exposed to what those few folks stand for. Hazelnut and others sought to be inclusionary, and not make reactionary statements pro or con on this issue. HN was also very concerned that the people that lived there were not informed. Pretty much period.

I had some people (nobody that's posted on the NWZ threads), ask me privately what I thought of people gushing with sheer delight over the SL issue and how well it's worked, yet when speaking of the BP area, it seems like mass chaos and ultra high speed. I did not once state the obvious.

They figured it out themselves. The bottom line is this. As a group, there can, and will be, disagreements over many things. But the vast majority of us try to discuss things out in the open, whether we agree with one side or the other. In this case, there were mixed results over actual NWZ. But there were only the same few that didn't think the methods or means used were pretty sneaky.

So some folks decided it was time to let everyone in on this little secret. I think the majority of people in this forum got a real eye-opener from these disclosures.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Why is it that all are in agreement with what SBONH exposed this scam except 3 or 4 people in this forum.

Why is it that the GFBL crowd feels/says they are the oppressed majority when most people polled in NH and a majority of our state legislature were in favor of a SL?

Why is it that some people feel jeans and sweatshirts are appropriate attire when appearing before a legislative body in Concord?

.......The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.........


I suspect the people in the BP will indeed get their NWZ. Having spoken with some of the people involved, it seems that in previous attempts virtually everyone on the mainland side of the BP, people on Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people along the BP shore of Cow Is. including many of HN's neighbors and +/-? even the former owner of his house signed in favor of the NWZ. This varies significantly with HN's version of only 3 people in the BP being in favor. I think some of the people on this forum need to read the previously printed (on this forum) emails to the DOS by residents of the BP as to why they felt the NWZ was needed. The DOS agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the DOS eventually institute this NWZ by administrative rule, similar to how a SL was instituted on Squam. People are indeed starting to take back the lake from a crowd hanging in the shadows who claim they are a majority but are clearly not.

[fatlazyless]

"New Hampshire's procedure for declaring a 'no wake' zone under scrutiny after reversal of 'Barber Pole' decision" is the title of a front page article in today's Nov 20 www.laconiadailysun.com

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"New Hampshire's procedure for declaring a 'no wake' zone under scrutiny after reversal of 'Barber Pole' decision" is the title of a front page article in today's Nov 20 www.laconiadailysun.com

You mean this isn't an anonymous op-ed piece written under an alias riddled with lies and spin, but an actual article, complete with facts and stuff?

Get out!

[fatlazyless]

Michael Kitch, a reporter for the LaDaSun wrote it, and he writes lots of articles or reports on local town meetings, and in learning journalism, journalism students try to learn the difference between reporting and editorializing, if such a thing is even possible.

To read it like a printed paper newspaper, go to "new LaDaSun format" last message - message #16 for a working link which turns the LaDaSun back into its' old style.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Why is it that the GFBL crowd feels/says they are the oppressed majority when most people polled in NH and a majority of our state legislature were in favor of a SL?

Why is it that some people feel jeans and sweatshirts are appropriate attire when appearing before a legislative body in Concord?

.......The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.........


I suspect the people in the BP will indeed get their NWZ. Having spoken with some of the people involved, it seems that in previous attempts virtually everyone on the mainland side of the BP, people on Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people along the BP shore of Cow Is. including many of HN's neighbors and +/-? even the former owner of his house signed in favor of the NWZ. This varies significantly with HN's version of only 3 people in the BP being in favor. I think some of the people on this forum need to read the previously printed (on this forum) emails to the DOS by residents of the BP as to why they felt the NWZ was needed. The DOS agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the DOS eventually institute this NWZ by administrative rule, similar to how a SL was instituted on Squam. People are indeed starting to take back the lake from a crowd hanging in the shadows who claim they are a majority but are clearly not.

Why is it that you and others of your ilk conveniently fail to admit that SBONH has only questioned the legality of the process regarding the establishment of the BP NWZ the rather than the result? If indeed "virtually" all (who can claim legal residency--a fact that you conveniently leave out!) in the area of the BP are in favor of a NWZ, then let them participate in and abide with the decision of the Tuftonboro authorities.

The fact that the BP NWZ was not established in a manner consisitent with the rules and regulations of the town of Tuftonboro apparently does not matter to you as long as the ends justify the means. The fact that you remain silent on the surrepticious, disingenuous, and unscrupulous manner in which the BP NWZ was initially established is abhorring.

It is occasions such as this that are the basis for the contempt and loathing that NH natives and residents express towards individuals such as you, as I am doing now.

[VtSteve]

You have them pegged pretty well Yankee. They lurk, they smirk, they slither around behind people's backs to get their dirty deeds done. They avoid any and all discussion of facts.

Everyone knows the persona that has stated, many times, that Winni was an absolute boater's paradise last year and this year. He said it was because of the SL. Out of the blue, after slithering around behind people's backs, they come up with a NWZ at the BP.

This very same person states (as they all do now), that it's Full Throttle and anything goes in that area. Nobody's heard that before, not until after the NWZ issue blew up in their collective faces.

So how can it be true that everything's ok but the BP area is crazy fast? Well it can't be. They know that, so when pressed, they make a few snarky comments directed at the MP about lack of enforcement and move on.

The only thing dangerous about this little group of nasty men is their deranged ideas. One of them even stated a preference for having the lake be a large NWZ, as he enjoys that boating the best. But once they found out that the people they hate the most might even discuss civilly the NWZ issue, they got even madder. They had to make it appear that these people drove boats at 200 mph through there. In fact, some suggested it Might be a good idea, and wanted to bring everyone in on it.

The gang of grumpy old men would have nothing to do with this. They slithered behind everyone's backs and passed a ridiculous law before everyone woke up. Fact si, they are pathological, never, ever to be trusted. Their motives are about an insincere as any I've head or read about. They'd make DC politicians blush. The only thing they're upset about is that they were found out.

If you want to really tick them off and send them packing, just keep spreading the truth.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Why is it that the GFBL crowd feels/says they are the oppressed majority when most people polled in NH and a majority of our state legislature were in favor of a SL?

Why is it that some people feel jeans and sweatshirts are appropriate attire when appearing before a legislative body in Concord?

.......The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.........


I suspect the people in the BP will indeed get their NWZ. Having spoken with some of the people involved, it seems that in previous attempts virtually everyone on the mainland side of the BP, people on Squirrel and Little Birch Islands, and many people along the BP shore of Cow Is. including many of HN's neighbors and +/-? even the former owner of his house signed in favor of the NWZ. This varies significantly with HN's version of only 3 people in the BP being in favor. I think some of the people on this forum need to read the previously printed (on this forum) emails to the DOS by residents of the BP as to why they felt the NWZ was needed. The DOS agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the DOS eventually institute this NWZ by administrative rule, similar to how a SL was instituted on Squam. People are indeed starting to take back the lake from a crowd hanging in the shadows who claim they are a majority but are clearly not.

I've never in my life read bigger LIES in a post. This entire post is a lie. The former owner of my house is dead. So unless you dug him up and used your hand to guide his signature you are telling lies.


Now for some levity:

Enjoy this one TB:

http://www2.laconiadailysun.com/story/barber-pole

New Hampshire's procedure for declaring a 'no wake' zone under scrutiny after 'Barber Pole' decision
By Michael Kitch
Nov 20, 2010 12:00 am

TUFTONBORO — The New Hampshire Department of Safety last week rescinded its decision declaring the Barber's Pole, the passage between Cow Island and the mainland, a "no wake zone" after representatives of Safe Boater of New Hampshire successfully challenged the legitimacy of the petition prompting the initial declaration.

State law (RSA 270:12) prescribes the procedure by which the commissioner of safety may place operating restrictions, including limits on the maximum horsepower or speed of boats, on lakes, ponds and rivers. The statute provides that at least 25 residents or property owners of each municipality bordering the water body may petition the commissioner, who after holding a public hearing may adopt rules to impose restrictions found to serve the public interest. Altogether restrictions have been imposed on more than 50 lakes and ponds, all identified in state law (RSA-270:76-132), through this process.

In May, the commissioner received a petition to impose a "no wake zone" on the so-called Barber's Pole strait. A hearing was held on July 21 and on July 30 Commissioner of Safety John Barthelmes issued an order declaring Barber's Pole, a stretch of water about twice the length of the Weirs Channel, a "no wake zone."

Many property owners on both Cow Island and the mainland were stunned and surprised by the decision, since they were not aware that a petition had been filed and a public hearing held. Noting the relatively low volume of boat traffic and number of boating mishaps, they questioned the need for a 'no wake zone," which the Marine Patrol has rejected in the past. They claimed that islanders who commute daily and weekly would be adversely affected by the "no wake zone," which one person said stretched the time to traverse the channel to 17 minutes.

Eleven residents, including Scott Verdock, the president, and Bob Flannery, the political director, of Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, appealed to reopen the hearing, claiming that the Department of Safety failed to properly notice the public hearing and the petitioners failed to qualify as either residents or property owners of Tuftonboro.

Verdonck stressed yesterday that his organization, which formed to oppose legislation setting speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee, was neither for or against the "no wake zone." Instead, he said that his membership was troubled that interested parties were not informed that a change in the operating protocols on the lake was being contemplated and that the credentials of the petitioners were apparently not verified.

"One of our members polled 58 residents of Barber's Poll and found only two who favored a 'no wake zone,'" Verdonck said. "We took no position either way. But, changes in the use of public waters should not be done under a shroud of secrecy. All the residents should be given an opportunity to participate in the decision."

The appeal was heard on October 1. The commissioner ruled that by posting a legal notice announcing the public hearing in the N.H. Union-Leader, a newspaper circulated throughout the state, the department met its obligation to provide public notification. He noted that the notice should not only be provided to residents or property owners but to all residents of the state, which has traditionaly be done by placing a notice in a statewide newspaper.

Verdonck disagrees and has asked Representative John Hikel (R-Goffstown) to file legislation requiring the petitioners to notify all abutters of the forthcoming hearing by certified mail. The process, he said, is akin to the procedure followed by local planning boards and by the New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services when chemical herbicides are applied to treat milfoil in lakes and ponds.

However, the commissioner found that the original petitioners failed to provide adequate proof that the signatories were either legal residents or property owners of Tuftonboro. Barthelmes instructed the petitioners to provide him with the necessary documentation within 30 days. According to Verdonck, they have failed to do so.

[hazelnut]

Furthermore all of the residents in the Barbers Pole channel on Cow Island OPPOSED THE NWZ. FACT not OPINION. These are my friends and my neighbors and many of them signed the petition opposed the NWZ. FACT not OPINION Sorry TB. FYI- The number of houses that directly abut the channel on the Cow Island side are 7 total homes one vacant lot with a dock.

[Kracken]

There is one member who has been outed and proven to be deceitful.
(posting under multiple names – caught)

There is another member who has been caught in multiple lies.
(talking to dead people-caught)

There is a third member that is completely incoherent.
(We shall see prove it speeders and kayaks )

Why are we wasting our time debating with deceitful, lying and incoherent people?

[Turtle Boy]

Well VtSteve (and hn)...you won...you have driven me off the forum for good. Your angry, degrading, and intimidating replies are one thing, but having received a PM with this link below showing your collection of assault weapons and warning me I should keep quiet for my own good was the last straw. Another notch in your belt for having driven another SL supporter off the forum. A founding member of SBONH...you are looking real good. Yeah I'm sure SBONH will have a lot of clout in Concord. Maybe they'll vote for your legislation out of fear. Here's your link for anyone else who might want to challenge you.

http://www.600rr.net/gallery//browse...mageuser=42657

At least I was sent your last name and Vt Address...my family might at least might get some closure should something bad happen. SBONH is going to go a long way with people like you on board. All my best,goodbye TB

[VtSteve]

You certainly didn't receive it from me.

It amazes me how far some of you guys will go, and for what?

Number one, that's not my gallery.
Number two, I have never owned a gun on my life, ever.
Number three. I have never owned a motor cycle, and have nothing whatsoever to do with anything your twisted mind can come up with.
The fact that someone has the same screen name as I do on a motorcycle forum doesn't interest me at all. I have no interest in bikes, nor guns.

I can tell you this sir, you have a very unique problem. You've been found to be lying multiple times. You obviously don't like that.

It's a surprising thing for me to see your post, I would have though even you'd be beneath it. I was wrong.

But after seeing this link, I shouldn't be amazed at all.

http://www.ftexploring.com/askturtle...urtleboy1.html

[VtSteve]

Feel free to post my last name and address right here TB.

I must say, I don't think I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with a more dishonest and disingenuous person.

And another thing TB.

I'll personally give Don access to my PM's immediately. I can tell you this with a straight face right now, You're lying again. Only this time, you've gone too far. If you try to doctor up something and say it's from me, I will give the authorities access to my entire account, starting with Don's access first.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Number two, I have never owned a gun on my life, ever.
Number three. I have never owned a motor cycle

Damn, and I was just beginning to like you!!

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I've never in my life read bigger LIES in a post. This entire post is a lie. The former owner of my house is dead. So unless you dug him up and used your hand to guide his signature you are telling lies.

A quick call to one who was involved reveals 5 of HN's neighbors who signed a petition during a previous attempt for the NWZ. I sent their names to him by PM...not sure if any of these 5 were the previous owners of his house. Dead people can indeed not sign but they can sign while alive and then be allowed to die. Interesting article today. Seventeen minutes to pass through the 1200' or so proposed NWZ? I could swim it faster than that! HN found only 2 people pro NWZ? Perhaps he needs to read the testimony of the many people who sent their opinions after the July hearing which include their locations as well. Also read the names of people of the BP who signed in as pro NWZ in July. What a joke....two people in favor of the NWZ. And you talk of slimy people in their caves. "I see your true colors shining through" to use your previous Cyndi Lauper quote.

[Seaplane Pilot]

TB,

Since we are referencing music (your reference to Cyndi Lauper), here's one for you and your friends at WINFABS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI

It has such a nice ring to it. I think it should be the SOBNH theme song!

Take it to the bank.

SP

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

A quick call to one who was involved reveals 5 of HN's neighbors who signed a petition during a previous attempt for the NWZ. I sent their names to him by PM...not sure if any of these 5 were the previous owners of his house. Dead people can indeed not sign but they can sign while alive and then be allowed to die. Interesting article today. Seventeen minutes to pass through the 1200' or so proposed NWZ? I could swim it faster than that! HN found only 2 people pro NWZ? Perhaps he needs to read the testimony of the many people who sent their opinions after the July hearing which include their locations as well. Also read the names of people of the BP who signed in as pro NWZ in July. What a joke....two people in favor of the NWZ. And you talk of slimy people in their caves. "I see your true colors shining through" to use your previous Cyndi Lauper quote.

So 1 call to some unknown informant illicits the "fact" that there were or are 5 "neighbors" of HN who were in favor of the NWZ? And just how do you have access to this petition? This is nonsense.

Furthermore, please do not take offense of no one believes you that "many people" sent their opinions after the hearing...unless you provide some proof. Remember tourists and non-residents do not count.

While I am at it, what is your opinion of how the BP NWZ was enacted? From your responses in this thread you apparently have no problem with the FACT that the people who SIGNED the petition were just visiting, do not own property and are not residents of the Town of Tuftonboro. Are you are OK with the FACT that it was snuck through the system in an underhanded way?

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Yankee

So 1 call to some unknown informant illicits the "fact" that there were or are 5 "neighbors" of HN who were in favor of the NWZ? And just how do you have access to this petition? This is nonsense.

Let's hear from HN. I suspect he is calling these 5 neighbors and may be surprised at what he hears. It's nice to see his lies exposed.
And did VtSteve just mention Nashua? Yeah thats a long way from the lake...but not as far as the SBONH signatures from all over the country and China. My favorites were Erica Blizzard's and Jimmy Hoffa's. Yup, signatures from all over the country...that's real honesty for you. Only two people in favor of the NWZ? This story gets better and better.
BTW, these 2 letters in the LDS this week go a long way at shining some sunlight into your cave. Will there be more? I would bet that in the not too distant future, SBONH's "friends"...Forsythe, Boutin, Hickel...will drop SBONH like a hot potato.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Let's hear from HN.

No, let's hear it from you. I directly asked you the question. You are the one you are the one who's claiming it to be true, yet tell us nothing in anyway to substantiate it.

Again, what is your opinion of how the BP NWZ was enacted?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Let's hear from HN. I suspect he is calling these 5 neighbors and may be surprised at what he hears. It's nice to see his lies exposed.
And did VtSteve just mention Nashua? Yeah thats a long way from the lake...but not as far as the SBONH signatures from all over the country and China. My favorites were Erica Blizzard's and Jimmy Hoffa's. Yup, signatures from all over the country...that's real honesty for you. Only two people in favor of the NWZ? This story gets better and better.
BTW, these 2 letters in the LDS this week go a long way at shining some sunlight into your cave. Will there be more? I would bet that in the not too distant future, SBONH's "friends"...Forsythe, Boutin, Hickel...will drop SBONH like a hot potato.

This is AWESOME! Yes TB did PM me and get this, the 5 people he mentions are either DEAD or have since sold, one he mentions is JTA in this thread (maybe the other BP thread) go check out his post. So TB how's it feel to have egg on your face? Remember I live there TB they ARE my friends my CLOSE friends and yes they ARE opposed to a NWZ. Nice try though. I'm done talking to you on this subject as all you do is lie and now that everybody has concrete proof I'll let you climb back into your shell and hang on to whatever dignity you have left.

Here is how it breaks down, TB referenced 5 property owners
#1 is dead I own that house now
#2 sold and the lot was divided into two lots BOTH signed AGAINST NWZ
#3 Is a poster in this thread JTA go read his position where he says NO NWZ is needed.
#4 Sold and moved to a Condo in Gilford new owner is against NWZ
#5 has not been to the island in 8-10 years.

hahahahaha No phone call needed buddy but your records are WAY out of date. Maybe those folks supported a NWZ back in the day but most of them are long gone from Cow Island.

Good try but once again you only show..

"You with the sad eyes
don't be discouraged
oh I realize
it's hard to take courage
in a world full of people
you can lose sight of it all
and the darkness inside you
can make you fell so small

But I see your true colors
shining through
I see your true colors
and that's why I love you
so don't be afraid to let them show
your true colors
true colors are beautiful
like a rainbow "

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

A quick call to one who was involved reveals 5 of HN's neighbors who signed a petition during a previous attempt for the NWZ.

Exactly as I said...5 of your neighbors were in favor of a NWZ. Not quite so black and white as you might lead one to believe. And how about people on the small islands and mainland. Two people in favor of a NWZ? ha ha ha ha .
Then again, aren't you the one who went to bars and arcades and was not able to find a single person in favor of the SL? Your abilities for deception and lies know no bounds. You have no shame. True colors indeed.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Exactly as I said...5 of your neighbors were in favor of a NWZ. Not quite so black and white as you might lead one to believe. And how about people on the small islands and mainland. Two people in favor of a NWZ? ha ha ha ha .
Then again, aren't you the one who went to bars and arcades and was not able to find a single person in favor of the SL? Your abilities for deception and lies know no bounds. You have no shame. True colors indeed.

Nice try with the misdirection but... You look foolish. Our petition has 98% of the abutters signing AGAINST the NWZ. The CURRENT proposal. I am so done engaging a person who out and out lies and then can not apologize when he is caught lying. It is BLACK AND WHITE 100% Black and white. The CURRENT property owners in the Barbers Pole channel overwhelmingly DO NOT support a NWZ in the area. What is so hard for you to comprehend? So you want to reference dead people and former property owners in your argument? Ok...

[Yankee]

I see dead people and others who no longer live here...they demand a no wake zone at the Barber Pole channel.

[VtSteve]

So whats ya gonna do now TB? Punt? Call the other two and have a consult?

It doesn't sound to me like HN was surprised by what he heard. It sounds to me like you've dished out some bald-faced lies, just like you and yours did during the SL debate. I'm beginning to wonder if any three people could possibly be so dishonest in real life? Only paid lobbyists that I know of can do this with a straight face.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I've never in my life read bigger LIES in a post. This entire post is a lie. The former owner of my house is dead. So unless you dug him up and used your hand to guide his signature you are telling lies.

And there it is again, yet another in a long series of lies (hence the term Pathalogical), from Turtle Boy himself.

Him and his gang of three must have a fairly weak case (obviously), to have to resort to lies all of the time. Somehow, they got a group of renters on an island to sign petitions in the dark of night, and sneak it on through.

The very same way they were pretty slick in getting signatures from Nashua and on up for a lake speed limit non boaters knew nothing about. They were so fearful of the truth, that they got the legislature to make the SL permanent before any facts or figures could be released. Wonder why that was?

I sincerely hope that those that don;t particularly like this form of "discussion", at least read through these threads. Perhaps after all this time, you can better judge what the uproar was really about.

Don't forget, this is not a dead issue. TB and his gang, like Ed/BIM/Warren will make sure that they continue to fabricate stories for each and every new law they want. So while the lake was sheer pleasure this year and last (except in the BP area), it might just be a hazard where anything goes according to this group tomorrow, or next May.

Wait until they start pushing for a special Lake Winnipesaukee Association patrol. One that adheres to the wishes of people that let them in power. Trust me, it's been done before elsewhere. Anyone that trusts any of these people is not rational.

And to TB. You've told more lies on this forum than anyone I've ever even heard of, much less witnessed. But what the heck, this is the internet, and you can say whatever. But the rantings of the little gang of friends across from BI go way beyond speed limits and a NWZ. These people are absolutely nuts about lots of things.

As for your latest rant? Don't forget, HN stated many times a NWZ was good for him personally. I know you've never commented to him on that, because to do so, would be civil.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Regarding ALL the discussion that's been had in this thread and the two letters to the editor posted here, how can the BP NWZ not be wide enough for two boats to pass each other while maintaining the minimum 150' between both crafts and shore? Using Google Earth, I measured the width of that area; the minimum width I found, shore to shore, was 825 ft while other areas were greater than 900 ft. Two boats passing each other would need an absolute minimum of 450' to allow for distances between themselves and shore on either side. Even if you allow 500', that STILL leaves 300'+ to maintain distance from other boats and shore. What am I missing when so many people are saying it's too narrow?!?!?

Nobody from SBONH-NHRBA will advise this BP visitor?

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Why is it that all are in agreement with what SBONH exposed this scam except 3 or 4 people in this forum. They tried to sneak a NWZ through the process and got called on it. I guess it's only the sneaks in this forum that are upset about it.

1) As I am scarcely benefited by the NWZ—and had nothing to do with it in any of its four proposals—please leave out the insinuation that ApS is part of this proposal.

2) However, having lingered at the BP in a small boat, I can now readily support BP residents regarding this "Visitor-Abuse" issue.

3) BTW: Who will go "on record", saying:

"There will NEVER be a NWZ at Barber Pole!"

[Yankee]

Once again I have tried and failed to translate Acre Per Second's parsi. Can anyone help me to understand what the he11 he is talking about?

[hazelnut]

I'll tell ya what, I will let you in on a little secret:

http://www.quicktopic.com/18/H/2DcQnXwaD2qL

Knock yourself out TB and read that. It's the COW ISLAND FORUM. Yup that's the place where MY NEIGHBORS and I discuss all things Cow Island. All those folks posting on there are the real LIVING residents and current property owners. You'll have to dig through all the day to day minutia of Island life (forum is not threaded) but the discussion about the NWZ is in there.

Enjoy the reading.

[VtSteve]

It sounds like some very real constraints are needed for the Sophie C.

It also sounds like we need a version of Snopes.com dedicated to debunking the posts of the usual gang. If TB tells me it's a sunny day, I'm Still going to look outside and see for myself

From Hazelnut

Our petition has 98% of the abutters signing AGAINST the NWZ

Keep your guard up. TB and the boys will be trying to get petitions signed in Nashua and Manchester again.

"Boats as large as 200' pass through a narrow passage at speeds up to 400 mph. Do you agree that this area, where you can reach across the channel and shake hands with island people, should be a NWZ."

In another petition;

"The lake was as wonderful as it had been when the Indians paddled their canoes 400 years ago (except the BP area, where boats go faster than the speed of light). Do you agree that all boats should, by law, go no faster than 6 mph on Lake Winnipesaukee? The speed limit passed should be made permanent, before any of you know what the outcome is."

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I'll tell ya what, I will let you in on a little secret:

http://www.quicktopic.com/18/H/2DcQnXwaD2qL

Knock yourself out TB and read that. It's the COW ISLAND FORUM. Yup that's the place where MY NEIGHBORS and I discuss all things Cow Island. All those folks posting on there are the real LIVING residents and current property owners. You'll have to dig through all the day to day minutia of Island life (forum is not threaded) but the discussion about the NWZ is in there.

Enjoy the reading.

And click the attachment on post #70 of this thread(knock yourself out HN) if you want to hear from some other islanders and mainland residents who live on the BP (didn't hear from any renters though). Your neighbors on Squirrel and Little Birch must love you...nothing like neighborly relations.

[VtSteve]

Those comments were discussed in depth earlier on TB. I think it's been pointed out that it's very hard to talk to the neighbors on squirrel.

Since you don't care to discuss your earlier "revelations", we can only assume most of what you guys come up with is a steaming pile. You've been proven to be "somewhat" disingenuous? Hazelnut seems to be pretty current, and quite active in the real world there. Thank goodness there are still people left that actually care about the truth. You do not appear to be one of them TB, and now everyone knows that.

But please, continue to tell us stories about all of your friends in the BP area, maybe we could do something about the Sophie C while we're at it.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

For your reading pleasure, from today's LDS:

Letters
State has changed no-wake-zones to anything goes a number of times
Nov 18, 2010 12:00 am
To the editor,

Mr. Chase should be nominated for Safety Commissioner or perhaps Hearings Supervisor due to the fact that the present office holders are opening a can of worms that could go back as much as 50 plus years. They seem to think they can change their minds when someone squawks that they didn't have time to read the hearing notices in the only statewide newspaper and this malarkey about only residents can sign petitions but anybody in the entire state can file appeals against rulings is a drastic mis-interpretation.

Many lake users went to the appeals hearing in Tuftonboro but weren't allowed to speak unless we were appellants and yet we were told that we all own Lake Winnipesaukee. Something is drastically wrong with this picture. As a boater who uses the "Barber Pole" passage on occasion, I believe someone should get out the measuring stick; the channel is not wide enough to allow two vessels going in opposite, or the same, ways the 450-foot clearance to allow speeds up to 45-mph by the current law, nor does it allow PWC's the 600 foot clearance to exceed headway speeds. However we were not allowed to bring this information forward during the appeals hearing. There are many areas on the lake that don't allow these clearances and yet the Safety Department has changed them from "No-Wake-Zones" to do what ever you please zones a number of times. One that comes to mind is the passage in Glendale between Pig Island and Locke Island that for many years was a "No-Wake-Zone", at least from 1969 through the late 1970s and then one year it did not appear on the chart due to a typographical error so the Marine Patrol removed the NWZ indicators and now boats literally fly through the area defying the 150 foot separation requirement as well as the need to slow to headway speed. This area is just around the corner from Marine Patrol Headquarters.

We might ask who verified the signatures for residency that were supplied, by NH Recreational Boaters Association, on petitions for the Eagle Island NWZ that was put into place a year or three ago ? And why aren't Center Harbor and Wolfeboro bays as well protected with NWZ's as are Alton and Meredith bays ? If one of the Department of Safety responsibilities is to provide for the safety of all users of Lake Winnipesaukee when and how, other than college kids riding around in patrol boats, don't they address these issues rather than waiting for the populace to request some actions that are so glaringly obvious ?

Bill Bertholdt

Perhaps he should also take over Fish & Game Department. Then he could restrict or outlaw hunting as well, seeing how "dangerous" this activity really is. Someone please pass the Rolaids.....I'm ready to puke.

[BroadHopper]

Where's the Barber's Pole? What happened to it? Did the NWZ supporters hold it for ransom?

[jmen24]

It's like playing tag on the playground with the kids that only want to play if they can control the rules and make it so they always have a safe zone within arms reach, but it is only for them.

Pretty soon they are talking to themselves in the corner of the playground, shouting random comments at others if they walk by to close.

The problem is those kids have grown up to be equally as annoying as adults and they have not changed a bit. Sad really.

Get involved and stay involved, it is your right and should be taken seriously. I have a feeling that we are going to start hearing more and more about folks standing up to the weak minded folks that want the rules spun in their favor. Secretly that is, wouldn't want to deal with an opposing view, that is NOT FAAAIIIIRRRR.

[VtSteve]

Well said Jmen. There are those that know the only way they can get their way is by cheating or under cover of darkness. They really don't like it when you turn the spotlight on them. I like the fact that so many turned on their spotlights all at once.

They said NOT FAAAIIIIRRRR, then called people nasty names and wrote nasty little letters. Then they go back into the corner. Perhaps they will learn how not to combine their conflicting fabrications in the same thread.

[gtagrip]

Summer 2009 = lake wide Shang-gri-la as many posted it was the best
summer ever.

Summer 2010 = High speed craziness in the Barber's Pole area and the 150'
rule is violated constantly.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!