building Winni Sailing

[lakegirl]

The event (I was there) was under a tent. Building a function facility would certainly have an impact on the Timberman. They held a function under a tent the same day as the Timberman. Building a function facility and hosting a function under a tent are 2 different things. As far as the proposed boat launch area and all the sailboats.... I don't know how the swimmers would work around that.

Again... A function Hall? Weddings? Sorry.... this in not acceptable.

As previously stated.... Mr. Mullen went to the neighbors with a plan.... that plan was very very different from what is being proposed. He misrepresented what his intentions were....losing trust in many many people.

[VtSteve]

So even APS has some issues? Hard to say sometimes.


It would appear that there are purists and everyday people that have questions about this proposal. Many would think that if you mention kids and disabilities in the same plan, it just gets done. But apparently, there are a lot of things to consider, and the planners are not as open as they should be. Great marketing though, BTW


APS? Could you please put the bong down and talk to people without the mysterious BS? I know you occasionally make some good points, but most don;t really understand what the heck you're talking about. If there's a point, you fail to make it.

And there is a bigger advocate than you APS. He logs more than 1,000 hours in a boat every summer, usually before August ends.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

So even APS has some issues?

1) Brewster Academy designed and built a "sailing boathouse".

To Wolfeboro's lake-panorama was brought a gloomy, dark and hulking addition! A smaller and more open facility would have provided more resources for boats, equipment, storage, spares, dockage, and kids' scholarships.

(I'm a Brewster Academy alumnus, but don't have that boathouse in my everyday view fortunately).


2) Because I'm a camper, I can identify with Tobey's concerns about camping.

....Because I'm an abutter to Development, I can identify with lakegirl's abutting a new Development.

....Because I'm a sailor, I'm leery that "sailing" is elbowing its way onto a State Park.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

if you mention kids and disabilities in the same plan, it just gets done...the planners are not as open as they should be. Great marketing though, BTW

To see the plans, Mr. Mullen has just stated he wants us to come to him.

Doesn't just that set your teeth on edge?

Originally Posted by VtSteve

APS? Could you please put the bong down and talk to people without the mysterious BS?

1) Since my points were taken directly from Mr. Mullen's explanations on this page, I expect Mr. Mullen to comprehend fully.

2) Please note that my reply was addressed to Mr. Mullen.

Originally Posted by VtSteve

And there is a bigger advocate than you APS. He logs more than 1,000 hours in a boat every summer, usually before August ends.

Whoever that sailor is, he needs to put his boat on lake that has some wind on it!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) Brewster Academy designed and built a "sailing boathouse".

To Wolfeboro's lake-panorama was brought a gloomy, dark and hulking addition! A smaller and more open facility would have provided more resources for boats, equipment, storage, spares, dockage, and kids' scholarships.

(I'm a Brewster Academy alumnus, but don't have that boathouse in my everyday view fortunately).


2) Because I'm a camper, I can identify with Tobey's concerns about camping.

....Because I'm an abutter to Development, I can identify with lakegirl's abutting a new Development.

....Because I'm a sailor, I'm leery that "sailing" is elbowing its way onto a State Park.


To see the plans, Mr. Mullen has just stated he wants us to come to him.

Doesn't just that set your teeth on edge?


1) Since my points were taken directly from Mr. Mullen's explanations on this page, I expect Mr. Mullen to comprehend fully.

2) Please note that my reply was addressed to Mr. Mullen.


Whoever that sailor is, he needs to put his boat on lake that has some wind on it!

Thanks APS, nicely done. Because I love the lake, and I'm a "boater", I think it's an issue, maybe even several issues. The Lake itself is a State Park as well, and comprised of more than just sailboats and powerboats.

I actually agree with your sentiments, including the wind I wish I could send ours to you.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by lakegirl

The event (I was there) was under a tent. Building a function facility would certainly have an impact on the Timberman. They held a function under a tent the same day as the Timberman. Building a function facility and hosting a function under a tent are 2 different things. As far as the proposed boat launch area and all the sailboats.... I don't know how the swimmers would work around that.

Again... A function Hall? Weddings? Sorry.... this in not acceptable.

As previously stated.... Mr. Mullen went to the neighbors with a plan.... that plan was very very different from what is being proposed. He misrepresented what his intentions were....losing trust in many many people.

The venue does not matter- a tent or a hall can hold the same amount of people. I am truly sorry that your experience on the lake is going to change, but if you want to have a snowball's chance in stopping this, you better come up with some better arguments or legalities than you have presented.

[fatlazyless]

Om mornings when it's too windy, the dockmaster hoists the red flag and some restrictions apply, depending on the wind strength. Storm sails, which are maybe about half the size of regular sails, are hauled up the mast, and skills ratings are needed to go out when the red flag is up. It's all the call of the dockmaster.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but that rv campground beach, hopefully to become a sailing beach, looks like it is home to the morning sun. Who knows, maybe the sailing center will sell coffee and honey-glazed donuts???

[classic22]

If you were there, as I was , you would have seen that both the iron man and the sailing center could coexist at the same time, as the tent was hosting a rather large gathering with a band. If your looking for peace and quiet at ellacoya with sunsets and loons, Im surprised that you would be a supporter of the ironman, with the thousands invading the park with cars, noise, traffic, boats, people etc...just the same things you cite as reasons not to have the sailing center. You cant have it both ways. The sailing center if done correctly would be a great addition to the park. Get involved in a positive way and make it work for everyone.

Originally Posted by lakegirl

The event (I was there) was under a tent. Building a function facility would certainly have an impact on the Timberman. They held a function under a tent the same day as the Timberman. Building a function facility and hosting a function under a tent are 2 different things. As far as the proposed boat launch area and all the sailboats.... I don't know how the swimmers would work around that.

Again... A function Hall? Weddings? Sorry.... this in not acceptable.

As previously stated.... Mr. Mullen went to the neighbors with a plan.... that plan was very very different from what is being proposed. He misrepresented what his intentions were....losing trust in many many people.

[ishoot308]

Let me try to put the building size into perspective...

The current existing bathhouse measures approximately 26' x 12' (scaled). The new pavilion which basically surrounds the bathhouse measures when scaled 56' x 31'. Basically you would be adding 17' on one side of the current bathhouse and 12' on the other. This is not a massive building by any stretch of the imagination.

Also more than 75% of the new building is open air and unheated space! Only a small section of the building where the offices are would be heated.

I feel very little view would be lost to the RV'ers at the campground. Having stayed at Ellacoya in my motor home for many years I can assure you that having a Prevost Coach parked at the adjacent site and within 10' of you is a far worse obstruction!! Since some of these coaches are 45' in length the proposed building really is not that much longer at 56'.

This should and will be a welcomed addition to the area.

Dan

[tntm_71we]

Good Morning!

As a newcomer to this site, I am very impressed by the number and the quality of the comments, pro and con, concerning the proposed new LWSA/Adams Memorial Sailing Center. I'm glad to see that an intelligent discussion can occur through this medium in a way that allows people to become informed and to simultaneously voice their opinions.

Please allow me to address a few points/questions that have been raised. The new Sailing Center will not be a private facility. It will be open to the public. Memberships will be solicited as a way to raise funds for operations, but the programs run by the facility will be open to participation to all comers. Because it will not be possible to charge users enough to cover the costs of purchasing and maintaining equipment, paying full and part time staff, costs of insurance, utlities, building maintenance, snow plowing, grounds maintenance, and on and on and on, the LWSA, on a limited basis, will allow people to hold special functions in the building such as anniversaries and weddings for a fee, just as is done at Gunstock and other publicly owned facilities.

The building will be totally enclosed and it is anticipated that no more noise will spread over to Lake Shore Park than already flows from Lake Shore Park over to Ellacoya. This is not a smart mouthed kind of comment -- it's designed to point out that the Lake Shore Park waterfront is anything, but a quiet serene sort of place. It is a a very busy, active and at times, a downright noisy, frentic, fun and friendly place -- as it should be!

As for the Ironman Competition, the LWSA plans to give the event the use of the LWSA's facility on that weekend and in all likelihood, the LWSA will not plan to use the waterfront for its sailing programs on that same weekend. This is not cast in stone, but the message I'm trying to relate is that the LWSA and Keith/Audra worked together very effectively during this year's event and we're very confident we will do so in the future.

As far as Lakegirl's assertion that the LWSA has changed its program from earlier representations, that is simply not the case. From day one, when Alan Kirkman (LSP's Executive Director) and I started communicating with one another, the LWSA has not held back any details of its plans or its programs in any way, shape or form. We have been direct, truthful and explicit about what is is we intend to do in all respects. So if you choose to, find fault with our intended uses and fight us on that front, but please don't accuse us of being untruthful or for misrepresenting our intentions -- you're out in left field doing that.

By the way, anyone who would like to see our plans, just call me or e-mail me and I'll send you a plan through the mails or I can forward a PDF and we're happy to do so. Addressing the concerns of the writer who had a reaction to the Brewster Academy Boathouse, our building will be well back from the waterfront with a large buffer of mature trees between the building and the water. I have a great sensitivity to the character of our lake's waterfront and nothing that I do or that the LWSA does will compromise that character.

As for the public boat ramp, a complete re-do of that ramp with an adjacent dock is part of the LWSA's plan and we will have a separate ramp of our own as well. I have propsed to the State that the LWSA will be willing to monitor and be responsible for enforcing whatever usage requirements the State wants to have in place. If the State will allow the LWSA to charge a fee to help cover the LWSA's expected costs of costructing the ramp, maintaining and overseeing the LWSA will gladly collect that fee. If the State requires the LWSA to manage the usage of the ramp, but collect no fee, the LWSA will comply. I feel certain that the public will happily pay something for access to a well constructed ramp that can be used year-round without vehicles getting stuck in the snow/water/sand.

Lastly, our plans do not contemplate building a "Wave Barrier" per se. The plans call for a wave fence -- a structure that allows the water to flow though the fence, but it knocks down the waves to permit calm water to be in place beyond the fence. This was the concession already made to Lake Shore Park to insure that sand and silt laden water could pass along the shorefront west and east in both directions. This was an appropriate request and the LWSA is happy that it could accommodate LSP's needs in this regard.

The LWSA will continue to take the needs of all stakeholders into consideration as we finalize the plans and go though the approval process. All questions and concerns are welcome and thanks to all of you who have taken the time to make your feelings known.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by tntm_71we

... The new Sailing Center will not be a private facility. ...

Does that mean it will be owned by the public or the state?

I would also presume the facility would pay rent and a percentage of income which is normal in this type of operation.

Originally Posted by tntm_71we

our building will be well back from the waterfront

You mean the publicly owned building?

[fatlazyless]

Taking a look at the nearby White Mountain National Forest, there's a number of ski areas that have been in existence for years by securing a special use permit from the owner of the land, the U.S. Dept of Agriculture and its sub-division, the U.S. Forest Sevice. Wildcat, Waterville Valley, Loon, Bretton Woods, Black & Attitash are either partially or totally located within the WMNF and are in operation via special use permits.

So, how is running a sailing school that targets local youth and charges low prices and building it on a NH state beach any different than operating a ski area on federal forest land?

That 200-yard, or so, long natural beach area in front of the concrete retainer wall, that's in front of the rv campground and toilet/shower building is a very attractive waterfront area, but it certainly seems that a local sailing school and a motorboat launch ramp & accompanying set-up dock would be an improved additional use. The neighboring Lake Shore Park already has their own beach, and it's not like the Lake Shore Park is losing its' next door vacant & untouched and underused rv beach. They, like everyone else in the area, will be gaining two new lake access points; a sailing center and a boat launch w/ a dock that's good for fishermen and trailer-boaters.

I might be wrong on this, but while the state ramps on Winnisquam, Squam, and Newfound are all no-charge, the ramp at Ellacoya could be a fee ramp because it is located in a state beach area. The ramp at Newfound is located within Whitemore Point State Beach and Natural Area, and that one is free, so that contradicts this line of thought........duh?
.......

Just about everything in the swimming side of Ellacoya like the bathroom sinks, toilets, doors, tile walls, outdoor sliding slides, park fixtures all look like they were new in about 1965 and have been kept running and working and in use and MAINTAINED ever since, since 1965. So, a big HAT's OFF to the Ellacoya maintenance crew because it all looks like they manage to keep everything in there working forever!

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...So, how is running a sailing school that targets local youth and charges low prices and building it on a NH state beach any different than operating a ski area on federal forest land?...

Well, you answered part of it. One is a state beach and campground the other is federal forest land.

Some of those ski areas are on privately owned land within the National Forest, they were there before it was WMNF land. Those that use WMNF land pay a substantial fee to use that land, they don't get to use it for free.

[fatlazyless]

Attitash Mt, in Bartlett NH, is on its' own private land down close to Route 302, but as the chairlift climbs the slope, it quickly passes a sign 'Entering White Mt National Forest. Ditto for Loon. Waterville and Wildcat are totally in the WMNF, and not sure about Bretton Woods or Black Mt in Jackson. Cannon is in a NH state park as is Ellacoya.

The White Mountain National Forest was established or created by the Weeks Act of 1922, or so. U.S. Senator John W Weeks of Massachusetts originally was from Lancaster NH, went to Harvard College and law school and became a Massachusetts politician, where he sponsored the Weeks Act that created the WMNF. So, the WMNF was a federal property for about 25-years before any of the ski areas were built. Cannon and Black are the oldest, followed by Cranmore, Wildcat, Attitash, Loon & Waterville, & Bretton Woods, or something like that!

Getting back on topic here......a public sailing center.....and a new public boat launch.....what's not to like? In the months of May, June, September & October, Lake Winnipesaukee is a great big lake with almost no boats out on the water. The lake goes very quiet right after Labor Day so a new Ellacoya sail & launch spot would make it more easy for everyone to use it.

[jrc]

First, I'm all for this sailing school, I love to watch the newbies learn in Smith Cove now and I think having it at Ellacoya would give a lot more people chance to use it.

I do have a little trouble with the changing meaning of the word public in these emails. Some simple questions for clarity:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
Who will own the building?
Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by jrc

Some simple questions for clarity:

Who will pay?
Who will own?
Will the LWSA pay rent?
Who will pay utilities?
Can the State of NH choose a different organization?
Who will set the fees?
Who will be responsible for sailing school injured or killed?

...some very good questions.....not to worry....everything to be covered by the smile of the great spirit.....just hoist the main halyard.....have a beer.... forgetaboutit..... & sail on !

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by jrc

First, I'm all for this sailing school, I love to watch the newbies learn in Smith Cove now and I think having it at Ellacoya would give a lot more people chance to use it.

I do have a little trouble with the changing meaning of the word public in these emails. Some simple questions for clarity:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
Who will own the building?
Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?

Greetings,

These are all fair questions. I'll try to answer them all and a few others that would logically flow from these answers, but there's no way to be brief and to address all these issues. First of all, please realize that the State of New Hampshire has no discretionary funds, like zippo, nada, gonzo and it could be years before tax yields come up with anything remotely usable to start making capital investments like new facilities at Ellacoya. This means that if an organization like the LWSA wants to create a new facility, the money has to be raised from sources other than the State.

The LWSA has proposed to build this facility without tapping into State funds, so it will be seeking contributions, grants, sponsorships and other in-kind contributions such as getting a sitework company to contribute time, equipment and labor to do a portion of the work; getting a roofing company to donate the men and materials for constructing the roof; etc. etc., etc.

The LWSA will seek major cash contributions from large companies such as banks, high tech firms and individual donors to cover building costs that aren't donated by firms in the construction business. If the LWSA doesn't cover all of the project's costs in the manner described above, certain benefactors have agreed to back a mortgage loan for an amount adequate to complete the building and to provide all the equipment necessary to run the programs.

Because the LWSA is a 501(c)(3), all donations are tax deductible to the donor so there can be tax benefits to those who dig deep to help get the complex built. A gifting program will be initiated to provide an endowment fund to cover expenses to the extent they exceed income. Right now, the LWSA's operating income and expenses are just about breaking even with the organization's balance sheet solidly in the black this current year as a result of the sale of donated boats and donations from supporters of the organization.

What it comes down to is for the State to create new facilities like this Sailing Center for the State's citizens, it has to turn to a non profit group like the LWSA whose members are passionate enough about a certain cause or activity so they will take on the risk of getting it built and equipped for use by the public. And be absolutely certain of this fact, the new LWSA/Adams Memorial Sailing Center IS a public facility. But the State doesn't stop there! DRED and Parks & Recreation have told the LWSA that there's a quid pro quo for getting the use of the land at Ellacoy. The LWSA has to upgrade the bath house, the road leading down to the waterfront and the public launching facility, in addition to building its own new facility, all in exchange for a use permit.

As for a fee back from the LWSA to the State for use of Ellacoya, it just won't happen. The LWSA's existing programs are barely breakeven. When the costs of running an Adaptive Sailing Program along with a new Adult Community Sailing Program are layered onto the costs of maintaining a new expensive building, it's a certainty that expenses will rise to exceed the sailing operation's income streams. That's where the need for event income will come into play. Instead of turning to Bingo and rummage sales like a lot of other charitable organizations, the LWSA will look to capitalize on the Sailing Center's glorious views up the lake and we'll allow the facility to be used for an occasional wedding, meeting or special event. I'm sure before we're done that there will be a meeting there of the Governor and the Governor's Council.

These types of arrangements between State, County or municipally owned facilities and various non-governmental entities (NGO's) like the LWSA are prevalent throughout New Hampshire. The underlying arrangement always allows the governmental side of the transaction to step in and take over ownership of the facility if the NGO doesn't fulfill its obligations and when or if this happens, the NGO's rights to use of the property are extinguished.

As for the use of the word "public" it obviously takes on different meanings based on the context in which it's used. All of the LWSA's programs are available to the public. Its facility at Ellacoya will be open to the public subject obviously to hours of operation and the payment of certain fees. There may be times when the facility is being fully utilized by the LWSA's activities in a way that would preclude additional members of the public from access, but only for such times.

To the extent that memberships are available such as membership in a particular activity like the Frost Biting Club, a group that sails and races up until ice has formed on the lake, the public can join that particular club and there may be a fee for use of boats and for paying staff to run races. If the capacity of the facility is maxxed out by the people who have already signed up for that program, it's concieveable a member of the public will not be able to participate even though that program is "open to the public".

There will be rules and regulations and fees all designed to offset, to the extent possible, costs of operating, staffing and maintaining the facility and its programs, but the LWSA's books are open to the scrutiny of the public since it is a 501(c)(3) at reasonable times, and if there are operating "profits" from one aspect of the facility's program, they will be quickly absorbed by other programs and the omnipresent need for replacing equipment.

If the organization does not fulfill its contractural responsibilities to DRED for use of the property and or abandons the facility, the State would be entitled to take over possession and ownership of the facility. If any loan secured by a mortgage is put in place by the LWSA, it would be junior in priority to the State's right to step in and that mortgage would then be wiped out forthwith. These are very typical provisions found in all such agreements where an organization such as the LWSA, whether it's a for profit or a not for profit entity, is a participant in a Special Use Permit with a governmental agency that owns the underlying land.

In essence, this is the same type of arrangement that is in place with the business that runs the Timberman Competition at Ellacoya. The difference is that the Timberman is there to, and in fact, does make a profit and because it does, it pays DRED/Ellacoya a fee for use of the facility. In the case of the LWSA, it is not designed to make a profit and none of it's officers and directors are paid for any of their services -- it is a true 501(c)(3). I wish I could say there's a likelihood the LWSA on an overall basis will ever see an operating profit. Since it's inception, we've always had to take a look at the books in the Fall of each year to see how far upside down the organization is and then we hold some type of fundraiser before year end to make up the deficit. I'm sure it will be no different at Ellacoya except there will be more at stake with larger deficits that will have to be made up every year.

Any Special Use Permit fees like the ones Waterville Valley or Loon pay to the National Forest Service would never fly at Ellacoya because both of those ski areas, like the Timberman program, are designed to make a profit and they should , therefore, pay for the access they have to the land. It could be argued that the State of New Hampshire ought to pay the LWSA for placing its facility at Ellacoya and then subsidize the on-going operations, at least to the point those programs break even -- not a very likely scenario!

The LWSA will probably pay a symbolic $1.00 per year fee for access to and use of the property, but the State will include terms in the Special Use Permit that will require the LWSA to properly maintain the facility and to operate the facility as represented. I'm sure there will be some requirements that the LWSA has to maintain and to possibly even oversee the operations of the public launching ramp. If a fee is to be collected, I'm sure the State will dictate how that fee is to be collected and how it will be shared if shared at all.

As for the fees the LWSA charges for use of the facilities, programs and its equipment, the State may choose to be involved, but I doubt they'll care. I'm sure they will want to have a say in our hours and days of operation and they will certainly want to decide what we will be allowed to do or not do on the property.

The LWSA is fully insured for all of its activities, including Workmans' Comp for its staff. Our policy is uniquely designed for non-profit sailing centers through the US Sailing Association, which is intimately familiar with the risks and perils associated with running a facility of this nature. The State of New Hampshire will be a named insured on all of our policies.

Although the LWSA is a 501(c)(3), it is run by a Board of Directors that includes a group of highly experienced business and professional people who dedicate many hundreds of hours each year to the furtherance of the LWSA's Mission. This Mission can be read by going to www.lwsa.org and clicking on About.

I hope this information is helpful to those of you who have concerns about the LWSA and its intended uses of Ellacoya. If our proposed facility end up being approved, I can assure you that our organization will be responsible tenants and a net plus for all of its intended users.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.

[jrc]

To summarize:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
LWSA through donations or mortgage

Who will own the building?
LWSA as long as they are there

Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
No, maybe a token fee

Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
LWSA through fees and donations

Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Yes

Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
LWSA

Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?
LWSA has insurance


I don't see anything that looks bad

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

I don't see anything that looks bad

How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

Do some research. It is also called a "Floating Breakwater" and they come in many different styles.

I would think you would be putting all your weight behind this. It really sounds like an asset to the Lake.

Photo is not even realated.

[fatlazyless]

What's the relevance of the above photo? It's not a photo of Ellacoya.

What would be real good would be a large, high definition aerial photo that shows Ellacoya and its' next door neighbor, Lake Shore Park. Helloooooo, any local aerial photographers out there???
.......
Reading the newspapers, you learn about repair items at NH state parks like worn out roofs and unpainted buildings due to lack of money. Ellacoya charges four dollars/person to get into the swim beach area, and $47/night to rent a campsight with utilities hookup for an rv. Looking at the rest room buildings in the swim area side, and the rv area side, all the fixtures look like they were new in 1965, but have been maintained and still provide good use.

It's my prediction that there's plenty different people in the area who will step up the plate, and connect with a donation, whatever they can afford, to help make the new public sailing center, and new public boat launch area get built. By building it based on lots of small local donations, that will help to keep it connected with the local community!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

APS, you did understand that my post addressed the financial aspects of the proposal? If you read my post again you will see I addressed costs, ownership and liability. You should assume my conclusion was based on those topics.

I did not address the impacts to the shoreline of North Carolina. I'm not sure why it's relevent.

I'm sure you are not suggesting that our crack state environmental people would allow someone to build a structure into Lake Winnipesaukee that causes harm to the lake or its users?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

APS, you did understand that my post addressed the financial aspects of the proposal?

1) To understand it all, the proposal is not complete.

2) Of course I favor sailing, but they're training 200 sailors a year. After only a few years, this will result in too many sailboats on the lake—and use up all the wind.

3) Since you know it's North Carolina, then you did some research. A wave-fence is a poor descriptor, and accuracy can't be found. Even described as a floating breakwater, there is nothing to indicate just what it is.

Again, to Mr. Mullen, it is still unknown just what a wave fence is.

3) While on this topic of sailing, I stumbled on the article below. Here, there are a few items—for those who follow the sailing sport.

• Women's sailboat racing.

• A racing championship for the Sunfish sailboat.

• An international sailing race, to be held in NoBozo's home state.

• The Para-Lympics—related to an item mentioned earlier.

[Amanda Callahan] looks forward to joining [team racing] at the 2011 ISAF Team Racing World Championships next August in Ireland. She also hopes to continue sailing the Sunfish competitively. “I am so excited that the Sunfish North Americans are coming to my backyard in Barrington (R.I.),” she mentioned.

The USOC’s Military Paralympic Sailing Clinic at the Newport Naval Base is one of Amanda’s favorite days of the year. “I have the opportunity to give back to people who have given up a lot more for the U.S., and on top of that, it is just a fun day spent with great people.”

Amanda's all-woman team appears below, racing the J-22:

Sunfish-National numbers have since doubled, this is a '96 photo!

[Tobey]

Mr. Mullen, Tobey here again. A few more questions please.

A I review the threads and other web sites and talk to some of my fellow campers at Ellacoya we have a few more questions.

First, there is quite a lot of talk about a Kids sailing program, handicap acess and wounded warriors etc., on this site and other web sites.

I applaud you if that is what you are trying to accomplish.

However, a look at your web site clearly shows you are more than that. Just look at your own by laws (BELOW).

Alsthough your (as you say) "General Purpose" pourpose is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing you have other golas as well.

Questions:

If you are a sailing club now, where are all the members boats anchored? How many members are there that have sail boats?

How many of those boats will move to moorings in front of Ellacoya?
How many moorings do you intend to apply for?

What will I do with the boat I and others now tie to the beach where your building is going to be located

How many races will you plan a year (in summer)?

Where will the 75 cars you alluded to elsewhere park?

How many functions a summer (weddings etc)? Open to all takers to offset costs?

Your facility faces the Ellacoya swimming beach north and west. What about the noise us campers and swimmers will have to listen to.

I hate to sound nasty or condesending, but.....Is the kids sailing program the front for your much larger yacht club and party central for your members & their races, functions, gatherings, hang out (Yacht Club atmosphere)??

YOUR BY LAWS ARE BELOW:



Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
BY-LAWS
as approved February 8, 1992
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of this organization shall be the LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE SAILING ASSOCIATION.

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
The general purpose of the organization is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing; to encourage youth sailing and to provide facilities and programs for the education of children in sailing and sailboat racing; to foster sportsmanship throughout the sport; to promote the science of seamanship and navigation; to foster and encourage social fellowship appertaining to all things nautical between members and similar associations; to forward and advance sailing in all its phases and more particularly to promote competitions and regattas under uniform rules among the members and other clubs within our region; and to foster local, national and international amateur sailing competition.

The Corporation is specifically precluded from engaging in any prohibited activities as defined in the New Hampshire Statutes and from any other activities not permitted to be carried on by (a) a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law or (b) a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or any other corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

Further delineation of the objects not conflicting with the above, may be made by the By-Laws.

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS
The officers of the club shall be a Commodore, Vice Commodore, and Rear Commodore; hereinafter designated as Flag Officers, a Secretary and a Treasurer.

It shall be the responsibility of all officers of the organization to uphold and enforce the mission and purpose of the organization as set forth in ARTICLE II herein.

No officer shall receive any form of compensation for the position in which they serve.

ARTICLE IV - DUTIES
It shall be the duty of the Commodore to command the association, to preside at all meetings of the club, and to enforce its laws, regulations and decisions of the Board of Directors.

It shall be the duty of the Vice Commodore to assist the Commodore in the discharge of his/her duties and in his/her absence to act in his/her stead.

It shall be the duty of the Rear Commodore to assist the Commodore and the Vice Commodore and in their absence to act in their stead. The Rear Commodore shall arrange and superintend all official races and regattas of the club. The Rear Commodore shall appoint members of the Race Committee.

It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep a record of all club meetings and of the Board of Directors meetings.

The Secretary shall keep a roster of the officers and committees, a roll of the members and of the boats enrolled in the various fleets.

The Secretary shall report to the club at its annual general meeting and to the Board of Directors as required.

The Treasurer shall collect all moneys due to the club, and shall make such disbursements therefrom as are ordered or approved by the Board of Directors. The Treasurer shall keep account of all club investments and make a report to the club at its annual meeting.

The Commodore may appoint such other committees as required to serve during the term of his/her office.

ARTICLE V - PROPERTY
All property of the club shall be vested in the Board of Directors as trustee for the members thereof, and they shall have power to act for and bind the members of the club, as their agent, in all transactions relating to the property. Said property shall be superintended and managed by the property officer who shall be appointed by the Commodore.

No officer or member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

ARTICLE VI - EMPLOYEES
The Board of Directors shall hire and fix the compensation of any and all employees which in their discretion may determine to be necessary in the conduct of the business of the organization.

ARTICLE VII - STANDING COMMITTEES
The Board of Directors shall consist of five (5) members including the Flag Officers, the Secretary, and the Treasurer. Three (3) members including at least one (1) Flag Officer shall constitute a quorum. All meetings of this committee shall be called by the Commodore, or in his/her absence by the officer next in rank. The ranking officer present shall be chairman of the meeting.

The Board of Directors shall have the general control and direction of the policy and finances of the club and the election of the members thereto. It shall authorize all disbursements and contracts. The Board of Directors may require all other committees and officers to report to it when necessary for the discharge of its duties. The Board of Directors shall report to the club at its annual general meeting, and to any special meeting called for the purpose, as provided in Article VII of this constitution.

The Race Committee shall consist of at least two members and the Rear Commodore. The Rear Commodore may appoint additional members to this committee as is deemed necessary. The Race Committee shall have authority to regulate and control all races and regattas held by the club. It shall decide all questions referred to it by the judges and skippers of competing boats, select and award all prizes offered by the club. The Race Committee shall report to the club at its annual meeting and to the Board of Directors when required.

The Membership Committee shall be appointed by the Commodore. It shall have charge of all applications and shall inform the Board of Directors through the Secretary as to their opinion of each applicant's qualifications for membership.

The Activities Committee will be appointed by the Commodore. The chairman of this committee will check with the Treasurer for availability of funds.

ARTICLE VIII - MEETINGS
The annual general meeting shall be held on or about November 1 or on such date as decided upon by the Board of Directors. The Secretary shall notify in writing all members at least two (2) weeks prior to the annual meeting.

Special meetings may be called by the Commodore at his/her pleasure, or by the written request of one-third of the membership. Such special meetings will be held at the time and place as set forth by the Commodore. Such special meetings shall have power to transact only that specific business for which the meeting was called. The Secretary shall notify in writing at least two weeks in advance the membership and stipulate the business under consideration for any special meeting.

All committee chairmen shall have the authority to arrange and call their own committee meetings at a time and place most convenient to the committee. The Commodore may call for a meeting of any committee as the need may arise.

ARTICLE IX - ELECTIONS
The Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be elected at the annual meeting each year by a majority vote of the members present, to serve for a term of one (1) year. The term of the officers shall commence immediately upon election.

A vacancy occurring in the office of Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary or Treasurer shall be filled by the next ranking officer to the position vacated for the duration of the unexpired term. A replacement may be elected by the unanimous vote of the then remaining members of the Board of Directors at a meeting called for this purpose.

The Board of Directors shall have the authority to fill a vacancy occurring in their own number, for the unexpired term of said vacancy.

ARTICLE X - MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be on a family or individual basis. Family Membership shall entitle all dependents of a member, resident in his/her household, to general privileges of the club, except voting rights shall be limited to one vote per adult, but not more than two (2) adults per Family Membership. Age eighteen (18) and over shall be considered an adult for memberships purposes.

Individual Membership shall entitle that member to general privileges of the club and voting rights limited to one vote.

No member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

Honorary membership shall be by election of the club by a majority vote. The individuals nominated for the honorary membership shall be selected by the Board of Directors. Honorary members shall pay no dues or fees, nor shall they be able to vote.

Any member accused of breaking the rules of the club or of conduct unbecoming or damaging to the good name of the club shall be notified of such charges and details by the Secretary and given the opportunity to be heard in his/her own behalf before the Board of Directors. Upon such hearing, or upon his/her failure to appear, the Board may, if it finds the charges proved, issue whatever discipline it deems appropriate including but not limited to admonishment (public or private), suspension, and/or forfeiture of membership. Such member has the right of appeal to the club at a special meeting called for that purpose and the membership may by a two-thirds vote of those present reverse the action of the Board and set aside all penalties.

ARTICLE XI - DUES
Annual dues shall be sixty (60) dollars for a Family Membership and thirty (30) dollars for an Individual Membership. Dues may be adjusted by the Board of Directors to meet the financial needs of the club when necessary.

ARTICLE XII - POWER BOAT OWNERS
Owners of power boats shall be entitled to full membership as described in ARTICLE X.

ARTICLE XIII - AMENDMENTS
Amendments shall be by a two-thirds majority of those members present at any meeting specifically called for said amendment. The membership shall be notified in accordance with Article VII.

ARTICLE XIV - DISSOLUTION
Upon the dissolution of the corporation, all assets shall be liquidated and all proceeds applied to the outstanding debts of the organization. After all outstanding debts are paid, any remaining assets shall be distributed to the successor exempt corporation, United States Sailing Association, Box 209, Newport, Rhode Island, 02840, within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or corresponding section of any future Federal Tax Code or shall be distributed to the Federal Government, or to a state or local government, for a public purpose. Any such assets not so disposed of shall be disposed of by the Court of Common Pleas of the County in which the principal office of the Corporation is then located, exclusively for such purposes or to such organization or organizations, as said Court shall determine, which are organized and operated exclusively for such purposes.

No benefit, except for approved compensation as set forth herein, shall be conferred upon any officer or director upon dissolution.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by Tobey

Mr. Mullen, Tobey here again. A few more questions please.

A I review the threads and other web sites and talk to some of my fellow campers at Ellacoya we have a few more questions.

First, there is quite a lot of talk about a Kids sailing program, handicap acess and wounded warriors etc., on this site and other web sites.

I applaud you if that is what you are trying to accomplish.

However, a look at your web site clearly shows you are more than that. Just look at your own by laws (BELOW).

Alsthough your (as you say) "General Purpose" pourpose is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing you have other golas as well.

Questions:

If you are a sailing club now, where are all the members boats anchored? How many members are there that have sail boats?

How many of those boats will move to moorings in front of Ellacoya?
How many moorings do you intend to apply for?

What will I do with the boat I and others now tie to the beach where your building is going to be located

How many races will you plan a year (in summer)?

Where will the 75 cars you alluded to elsewhere park?

How many functions a summer (weddings etc)? Open to all takers to offset costs?

Your facility faces the Ellacoya swimming beach north and west. What about the noise us campers and swimmers will have to listen to.

I hate to sound nasty or condesending, but.....Is the kids sailing program the front for your much larger yacht club and party central for your members & their races, functions, gatherings, hang out (Yacht Club atmosphere)??

YOUR BY LAWS ARE BELOW:



Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
BY-LAWS
as approved February 8, 1992
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of this organization shall be the LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE SAILING ASSOCIATION.

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
The general purpose of the organization is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing; to encourage youth sailing and to provide facilities and programs for the education of children in sailing and sailboat racing; to foster sportsmanship throughout the sport; to promote the science of seamanship and navigation; to foster and encourage social fellowship appertaining to all things nautical between members and similar associations; to forward and advance sailing in all its phases and more particularly to promote competitions and regattas under uniform rules among the members and other clubs within our region; and to foster local, national and international amateur sailing competition.

The Corporation is specifically precluded from engaging in any prohibited activities as defined in the New Hampshire Statutes and from any other activities not permitted to be carried on by (a) a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law or (b) a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or any other corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

Further delineation of the objects not conflicting with the above, may be made by the By-Laws.

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS
The officers of the club shall be a Commodore, Vice Commodore, and Rear Commodore; hereinafter designated as Flag Officers, a Secretary and a Treasurer.

It shall be the responsibility of all officers of the organization to uphold and enforce the mission and purpose of the organization as set forth in ARTICLE II herein.

No officer shall receive any form of compensation for the position in which they serve.

ARTICLE IV - DUTIES
It shall be the duty of the Commodore to command the association, to preside at all meetings of the club, and to enforce its laws, regulations and decisions of the Board of Directors.

It shall be the duty of the Vice Commodore to assist the Commodore in the discharge of his/her duties and in his/her absence to act in his/her stead.

It shall be the duty of the Rear Commodore to assist the Commodore and the Vice Commodore and in their absence to act in their stead. The Rear Commodore shall arrange and superintend all official races and regattas of the club. The Rear Commodore shall appoint members of the Race Committee.

It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep a record of all club meetings and of the Board of Directors meetings.

The Secretary shall keep a roster of the officers and committees, a roll of the members and of the boats enrolled in the various fleets.

The Secretary shall report to the club at its annual general meeting and to the Board of Directors as required.

The Treasurer shall collect all moneys due to the club, and shall make such disbursements therefrom as are ordered or approved by the Board of Directors. The Treasurer shall keep account of all club investments and make a report to the club at its annual meeting.

The Commodore may appoint such other committees as required to serve during the term of his/her office.

ARTICLE V - PROPERTY
All property of the club shall be vested in the Board of Directors as trustee for the members thereof, and they shall have power to act for and bind the members of the club, as their agent, in all transactions relating to the property. Said property shall be superintended and managed by the property officer who shall be appointed by the Commodore.

No officer or member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

ARTICLE VI - EMPLOYEES
The Board of Directors shall hire and fix the compensation of any and all employees which in their discretion may determine to be necessary in the conduct of the business of the organization.

ARTICLE VII - STANDING COMMITTEES
The Board of Directors shall consist of five (5) members including the Flag Officers, the Secretary, and the Treasurer. Three (3) members including at least one (1) Flag Officer shall constitute a quorum. All meetings of this committee shall be called by the Commodore, or in his/her absence by the officer next in rank. The ranking officer present shall be chairman of the meeting.

The Board of Directors shall have the general control and direction of the policy and finances of the club and the election of the members thereto. It shall authorize all disbursements and contracts. The Board of Directors may require all other committees and officers to report to it when necessary for the discharge of its duties. The Board of Directors shall report to the club at its annual general meeting, and to any special meeting called for the purpose, as provided in Article VII of this constitution.

The Race Committee shall consist of at least two members and the Rear Commodore. The Rear Commodore may appoint additional members to this committee as is deemed necessary. The Race Committee shall have authority to regulate and control all races and regattas held by the club. It shall decide all questions referred to it by the judges and skippers of competing boats, select and award all prizes offered by the club. The Race Committee shall report to the club at its annual meeting and to the Board of Directors when required.

The Membership Committee shall be appointed by the Commodore. It shall have charge of all applications and shall inform the Board of Directors through the Secretary as to their opinion of each applicant's qualifications for membership.

The Activities Committee will be appointed by the Commodore. The chairman of this committee will check with the Treasurer for availability of funds.

ARTICLE VIII - MEETINGS
The annual general meeting shall be held on or about November 1 or on such date as decided upon by the Board of Directors. The Secretary shall notify in writing all members at least two (2) weeks prior to the annual meeting.

Special meetings may be called by the Commodore at his/her pleasure, or by the written request of one-third of the membership. Such special meetings will be held at the time and place as set forth by the Commodore. Such special meetings shall have power to transact only that specific business for which the meeting was called. The Secretary shall notify in writing at least two weeks in advance the membership and stipulate the business under consideration for any special meeting.

All committee chairmen shall have the authority to arrange and call their own committee meetings at a time and place most convenient to the committee. The Commodore may call for a meeting of any committee as the need may arise.

ARTICLE IX - ELECTIONS
The Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be elected at the annual meeting each year by a majority vote of the members present, to serve for a term of one (1) year. The term of the officers shall commence immediately upon election.

A vacancy occurring in the office of Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary or Treasurer shall be filled by the next ranking officer to the position vacated for the duration of the unexpired term. A replacement may be elected by the unanimous vote of the then remaining members of the Board of Directors at a meeting called for this purpose.

The Board of Directors shall have the authority to fill a vacancy occurring in their own number, for the unexpired term of said vacancy.

ARTICLE X - MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be on a family or individual basis. Family Membership shall entitle all dependents of a member, resident in his/her household, to general privileges of the club, except voting rights shall be limited to one vote per adult, but not more than two (2) adults per Family Membership. Age eighteen (18) and over shall be considered an adult for memberships purposes.

Individual Membership shall entitle that member to general privileges of the club and voting rights limited to one vote.

No member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

Honorary membership shall be by election of the club by a majority vote. The individuals nominated for the honorary membership shall be selected by the Board of Directors. Honorary members shall pay no dues or fees, nor shall they be able to vote.

Any member accused of breaking the rules of the club or of conduct unbecoming or damaging to the good name of the club shall be notified of such charges and details by the Secretary and given the opportunity to be heard in his/her own behalf before the Board of Directors. Upon such hearing, or upon his/her failure to appear, the Board may, if it finds the charges proved, issue whatever discipline it deems appropriate including but not limited to admonishment (public or private), suspension, and/or forfeiture of membership. Such member has the right of appeal to the club at a special meeting called for that purpose and the membership may by a two-thirds vote of those present reverse the action of the Board and set aside all penalties.

ARTICLE XI - DUES
Annual dues shall be sixty (60) dollars for a Family Membership and thirty (30) dollars for an Individual Membership. Dues may be adjusted by the Board of Directors to meet the financial needs of the club when necessary.

ARTICLE XII - POWER BOAT OWNERS
Owners of power boats shall be entitled to full membership as described in ARTICLE X.

ARTICLE XIII - AMENDMENTS
Amendments shall be by a two-thirds majority of those members present at any meeting specifically called for said amendment. The membership shall be notified in accordance with Article VII.

ARTICLE XIV - DISSOLUTION
Upon the dissolution of the corporation, all assets shall be liquidated and all proceeds applied to the outstanding debts of the organization. After all outstanding debts are paid, any remaining assets shall be distributed to the successor exempt corporation, United States Sailing Association, Box 209, Newport, Rhode Island, 02840, within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or corresponding section of any future Federal Tax Code or shall be distributed to the Federal Government, or to a state or local government, for a public purpose. Any such assets not so disposed of shall be disposed of by the Court of Common Pleas of the County in which the principal office of the Corporation is then located, exclusively for such purposes or to such organization or organizations, as said Court shall determine, which are organized and operated exclusively for such purposes.

No benefit, except for approved compensation as set forth herein, shall be conferred upon any officer or director upon dissolution.

Hello Tobey,

Here are the answers to your questions -- Most of the LWSA's members own or sail regularly on boats that are on Lake W. Any and all of the sailboats in question are berthed or moored at marinas on the lake or they are berthed or moored at members' private homes. A few are trailered in, but probably less than half a dozen. Before you ask the next logical question. be aware that none of the members' boats or anyone elses' boats will be allowed to be permanently moored or docked at the LWSA's new Sailing Center. On a space available basis, we may allow a member to hook up to a mooring for a few hours, but as you know, you cannot stay overnight on a mooring unless the boat is tethered to the shore. Furthermore, only very shallow draft keel and centerboard boats will be able to even enter the boat basin.

We will be applying for around 30 moorings and we plan to make some of those available for folks coming to the RV Park at Ellacoya. The balance will be used for the Sailing Center's boats, but these are just day boats -- not useful for overnighting. On a space available basis, we may have some room for campers' boats to be tied up to docks in the boat basin.

As you may know, whenever two sailboats are side by side, a race is underway. Most of our organized racing will occur on weekends, but that will generally be in small boats around 15 feet and under and those boats by and large will be racked each night next to our building.

Parking will all take place along the dirt road coming down to the waterfront. There is room there for 75 cars angled in toward Lake Shore Park.

Special events like weddings will be limited to what we need in order to raise enough funds to keep the Sailing Center afloat (pun intended), but any more than what we absolutely need will cut into the use of the facility for its intended purpose and that would not be acceptable.

We have designed the building so we can close up walls on any side we want to make sure noise is kept inder control. We will also agree to shut down the occasional band that might be playing at a very reasonable hour. The alternative is we invite all the campers to join the festivities.

There's no question that an element of good times following a race is a healthy and normal occurrence and there will be those activities from time to time and not just for members. There will also be fund raisers on an occasional basis, but all activities will be carefully controlled so as not to interfere with the campers or the residents of Lake Shore Park. We will expect to be treated the same by Lake Shore Park.

Our facility will only be open for scheduled events and activities. Members and the public will not be able to just drop in for a cocktail or dinner -- this is designed to be a sailing facility, not a yacht club.

As for the Wave Fence, it is being designed and I admit to not having a full sense myself of how it is to be constructed and exactly how it will work, but the goal is to knock down the height of the waves coming in from the North, the Northeast and the Northwest without impacting the flow of sand and silt laden water working its way east and west along the waterfront and some distance out from the beach. I'll let all interested parties know as soon as I know.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.

[Tobey]

Golly Gee Tom, I am getting the impression you will say whatever need be said to get this thru. Campers can use docks and moorings if space is available. We can go to the parties and join the fun. Ok, so now i am a "Wedding Crasher".
Only limited functions and parties. heck there are only 8 or 9 weekends in the summer, so you may only have one or 2 functions??
You will shut down noisy bands. Will you be there for every wedding/function?
Is there central air? If not you will keep all windows closed on a hot summer day/night and let the guests sweat?
I like to fish there as well. Did you know that the brook that feeds that location is a spawning area for lake trout and salmon? How will you impact that?
Again, I applaud the kids part of this. It's the rest that scares me and my fellow campers. I have called and emailed a number of them with regards to what is being planned. Although they love the area if it gets too bad they will just travel elsewhere. The State will loose money. Particulary if you do as you say and end up with a One Dollar a year lease. If that happens one of the most profitable parks in the sysytem will be everthing but that.
I'd be interested in knowing just who it is in the state that has okayed this plan. Or, at a minimum, told you to go forward in the planning statge.
Can you share that info with us?
Thanks again
Your freind
Tobey

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Attitash Mt, in Bartlett NH, is on its' own private land down close to Route 302, but as the chairlift climbs the slope, it quickly passes a sign 'Entering White Mt National Forest. .....

If you research back a few years in the Conway Daily Sun you will find there was much negotiation involving that chairlift, some of it bitter. Attitash paid quite a bit for use of that piece of land.

I do think a sailing school is great, the question is where?

jrc raises many valid points that I don't see answered.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

Does that mean it will be owned by the public or the state?

I would also presume the facility would pay rent and a percentage of income which is normal in this type of operation.

You mean the publicly owned building?

OK, here is my read on the situation.

It will be public, as in a similar state to a public golf course. You do not have to be a member to have access. You still have to pay a fee for the experience.

That fee apparently goes to the operation not the state.

This seems like it will work in the exact same fashion as any form of guiding service that operates on state land within the state. A private for profit company makes money utilizing state resources, they get that right by purchasing lease rights to access the land for profit purposes and have to do so every few years or so.

My cousin's father-in-law has a camp on Umbagog, the land is state owned, he owns the camp (can make it into what ever he wants, to a point) and has a 99 year lease to keep it on the states land. The restrictions for what he can do as far as the building size and septic are very tight. For example, he cannot build a fully modern house on the land.

Basically the state will control the land and the sailing school will control the building with a tight eye from the state. The building will in all intense purposes be owned by the state.

I believe you are correct in that the state will not see any of these fees for the yearly activities, but will get some back in the lease fees.