Get involved: Moultonborough town meeting Saturday March 13th, 209

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

How does one get an absentee ballot for an SB2 Deliberative Session?

You don't get the absentee ballot for the Deliberative Session - you get it for voting.

Warrant articles are presented, moved, seconded, and voted on at the Deliberative Session. They may also be amended. Any voting on the Warrant articles, even if they are amended, are only on the WORDING of the articles. The actual voting is in March.

Contact your town clerk for an absentee ballot.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

You don't get the absentee ballot for the Deliberative Session - you get it for voting.

Warrant articles are presented, moved, seconded, and voted on at the Deliberative Session. They may also be amended. Any voting on the Warrant articles, even if they are amended, are only on the WORDING of the articles. The actual voting is in March.

Contact your town clerk for an absentee ballot.

If all the Warrant Articles are presented, etc.and decisions made at a deliberative session, this sounds like a town meeting. I really don't understand why if I can't have an absentee ballot for a deliberative session how it's any better than a town meeting. Do you see what I mean?

[fatlazyless]

Deliberative session is more like a legislative workshop done by voters at an open, public meeting, and the final vote is held one week later on Tuesday election day, 7am-7pm, by private, paper ballot. Typically, a NH town meeting starts at 7pm and the meeting gets to the actual show-of-hands vote at 11:22pm, on the first Tuesday night in March.

End result example: Gilford, a SB-2 town gets by with their older and medium-size police station, while Meredith, a town-meeting town has the largest, small town police station on the planet in world history. And, both Gilford and Meredith police departments have recently joined labor unions for labor-pay, bargaining representation verses their town selectboards.

Friendly suggestion: go get a job working for the town......you cannot beat them, so you might as well join them!

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

If all the Warrant Articles are presented, etc.and decisions made at a deliberative session, this sounds like a town meeting. I really don't understand why if I can't have an absentee ballot for a deliberative session how it's any better than a town meeting. Do you see what I mean?

I understand what you mean - it is confusing - but.... that is because you're not VOTING on the articles YET... that is in March.

The Warrant articles are basically presented and discussed - lots of hot air, not a lot of action (usually)... They are not PASSED OR DEFEATED at the Deliberative Session - that is done on voting day only. Again, it's only about the wording of the articles and the information behind them.

For example, there might be a petition warrant article for a new rescue vehicle for the fire department. The moderator reads the article, someone from the Board of Selectmen or Budget Committee moves and seconds the article. It is then discussed - a department head or concerned citizen will yammer on about the justification for the request. Once all questions/comments have been satisfied from the floor, the moderator will close discussion. A member of the Board of Selectmen or Budget Committee will move and second the article to be restricted for further consideration (meaning no schmoe can come in at the 11th hour and change the article -can you imagine the headache that would be cause if articles weren't restricted for further consideration?! Yikes!) then the meeting moves into the next article, and so on. NO VOTE IS TAKEN on the article....

Technically speaking, the moderator does not adjourn the meeting (the deliberative session) but RECESSES it until voting day!

Now, in the case where someone comes in and says "I want to amend this article to be zero dollars" or "I want to add some words to this article" or whatever - and someone seconds the AMENDMENT - THEN... and only then... is a vote taken on the amendment. The ARTICLE itself still is NOT voted on - just the wording.

All this is done in accordance with Roberts Rules of Order (if you're not familiar with that process, it the same process used by Parliament - more info on that is HERE.)

Again - the final voting (approval or denial) of the articles isn't done until the voting day - that's when you can use your absentee ballot. The argument about what's "great" about SB-2 is that people who can't make the Deliberative Session will still have a voice on voting day. (To which I say - if you can't make Deliberative Session, how are you making an informed decision on what you're voting on? - I am NOT a fan of SB-2!)

Hope that makes sense....


PS
Absentee ballots aren't printed until AFTER the deliberative session because of any changes that may be made on the articles presented!

[Pineedles]

Sorry for the off topic remark as I have been very interested in this thread, but I must comment on a remark by EllyPoinster that he served in the Military.

#1 Thank you for your service.

#2 It's too bad we don't pay one of the federal government's largest group of employees what the rest of gov't workers get who really deserve better.

Who? The Men & Women of the Armed Services.

And now back to the debate as to whether we have a Democratic or Republic govenment in Moultonborough.

[breathe easy]

The NH Department of Revenue Adminstration puts out a "Technical Assistance" document that explains SB2 quite clearly.
I actually did not intend this to be an SB2 debate, but I realize ( now) that many on the forum live in SB2 towns and or school districts. It's important to note that the "second session" is actually ballot day and voters can vote either in person in the privacy of the ballot box or by absentee ballot on all warrant articles.

http://www.nh.gov/revenue/munc_prop/...assistance.doc

"What is the official ballot referenda?
It is a form of town meeting that has two sessions. The first session (deliberative session) is for explanation, discussion, debate and amendments to the proposed operating budget and warrant articles. The second session (voting session) allows voters to cast their votes for local elections, zoning articles and all warrant articles

How will the meeting change? Can opinions still be voiced?
There are a few significant changes that occur. First is the creation of a second session specifically for voting. The deliberative session (first session) is similar to the traditional town meeting but is held earlier. During this meeting, all articles can be explained, discussed, debated and amended. The articles as presented or amended will be placed on the official ballot and voted on at the second session. Most SB2 municipalities hold their first session in late January to early February and voting in March (second session). See our timelines for the specific dates this year. Another change is the procedure for adopting the budget. The article proposes an operating budget and a default budget (should the proposed operating budget fail). Special and individual warrant articles are separate from the operating budget as prescribed by RSA 40:13, IX. A hearing on the entire budget and default budget must be held prior to posting the warrant and budget in accordance with RSA 40:13, II-a through II-d."

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

I understand what you mean - it is confusing - but.... that is because you're not VOTING on the articles YET... that is in March.

The Warrant articles are basically presented and discussed - lots of hot air, not a lot of action (usually)... They are not PASSED OR DEFEATED at the Deliberative Session - that is done on voting day only. Again, it's only about the wording of the articles and the information behind them.

For example, there might be a petition warrant article for a new rescue vehicle for the fire department. The moderator reads the article, someone from the Board of Selectmen or Budget Committee moves and seconds the article. It is then discussed - a department head or concerned citizen will yammer on about the justification for the request. Once all questions/comments have been satisfied from the floor, the moderator will close discussion. A member of the Board of Selectmen or Budget Committee will move and second the article to be restricted for further consideration (meaning no schmoe can come in at the 11th hour and change the article -can you imagine the headache that would be cause if articles weren't restricted for further consideration?! Yikes!) then the meeting moves into the next article, and so on. NO VOTE IS TAKEN on the article....

Technically speaking, the moderator does not adjourn the meeting (the deliberative session) but RECESSES it until voting day!

Now, in the case where someone comes in and says "I want to amend this article to be zero dollars" or "I want to add some words to this article" or whatever - and someone seconds the AMENDMENT - THEN... and only then... is a vote taken on the amendment. The ARTICLE itself still is NOT voted on - just the wording.

All this is done in accordance with Roberts Rules of Order (if you're not familiar with that process, it the same process used by Parliament - more info on that is HERE.)

Again - the final voting (approval or denial) of the articles isn't done until the voting day - that's when you can use your absentee ballot. The argument about what's "great" about SB-2 is that people who can't make the Deliberative Session will still have a voice on voting day. (To which I say - if you can't make Deliberative Session, how are you making an informed decision on what you're voting on? - I am NOT a fan of SB-2!)

Hope that makes sense....


PS
Absentee ballots aren't printed until AFTER the deliberative session because of any changes that may be made on the articles presented!

I think the warrants and articles should be put in the newspaper, such as the Meredith News, before any town meeting or an SB-2 vote. I have been to many town meetings where I was so confused that I didn't vote. There all also many people that just want to hear themselves talk. I get so tired of hearing the same people blow smoke. Many people just want to be front and center and hear themselves talk. I have better things to to do then waste my time listening to them. If we had SB-2 I could vote without wasting my time listening to people talk in circles. It's time to break tradition!

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Green's Basin Girl

I think the warrants and articles should be put in the newspaper, such as the Meredith News, before any town meeting or an SB-2 vote. I have been to many town meetings where I was so confused that I didn't vote. There all also many people that just want to hear themselves talk. I get so tired of hearing the same people blow smoke. Many people just want to be front and center and hear themselves talk. I have better things to to do then waste my time listening to them. If we had SB-2 I could vote without wasting my time listening to people talk in circles. It's time to break tradition!

They are printed in the local papers and they have to be posted in a public place, such as the town hall or post office.

Be careful what you wish for with SB-2. I thought it was a good idea at first, too. I have no doubt that people are voting who have no idea what they're really voting for - they get confused by the wording of the articles. Warrant articles should NOT be difficult for the lay-person to understand. I'm with you about wind-bags at some of the meetings - I cringe when some people step up to the mic to speak... but that's part of the process... I also see some people come up with excellent points or questions. By the way - the same wind-bags will be at the Deliberative Session who were at the town meetings - that doesn't change at all. My problem with the Deliberative Session is that out of a town of 4,000+, we're lucky to have 40 voters show up for the event. The amount of apathy people have about voting is appalling...

@Sue-Doe-Nym:

f you can only change the wording at a Deliberative Session BUT you can change a dollar amount, this is the same as a Town Meeting and I want to be able to vote on it. I think I should have an absentee ballot if something as important as changing a large dollarr amount is concerned. I don't think you understand my point.

I do get your point but really... any changes - wording or money - are made at the time of the meeting only - there's no way a ballot could be written that could incorporate ALL of the possible changes that you might get in a meeting. Simply put - there's no way to predict what might happen at a Deliberative Session.

Remember - the money isn't being approved to be raised (set aside by tax payers per the voting outcomes) - only the final amount to be requested is being voted on at the Deliberative Session. The money isn't approved to be raised UNTIL voting day. The articles presented to the voters on voting day would be the ones that are on your absentee ballot. I think you're confusing the approval of the funds to be raised with the request for the amount of funds that is being discussed at the Deliberative Session.

Example - the Fire Dept. wants a new engine and is asking voters to approve $600,000. At the Deliberative Session in February, Joe Voter amends the request (Warrant article) to say $400,000 and Jane Voter seconds the amendment. The voters present at the Deliberative session are polled by the moderator and counted by the Keepers of the Checklist to approve the amendment. For the sake of this example, let's say that the amendment passes by a favorable vote. So, when the voters meet AGAIN in March, they will then vote to raise the $400,000 or not, based on the changes from the Deliberative Session that Joe Voter made and those present agreed on... See, they didn't actually say they were going to set the money aside at the Deliberative Session - they only amended the article to be different than what was presented.

One of the "bonuses" about SB-2 is that when things are amended - whether it's wording or dollar amounts - the time between the Deliberative Session and the actual voting of the articles later is supposed to give people time to review the changes, write editorials and newspaper articles, etc. about the proposed Warrants, and for the printing of the absentee ballots.

Hope that makes sense. Maybe talking with your town clerk will help shed light on the issue for you, too. I've found town clerks to be great resources...

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

I understand what you mean - it is confusing - but.... that is because you're not VOTING on the articles YET... that is in March.

The Warrant articles are basically presented and discussed - lots of hot air, not a lot of action (usually)... They are not PASSED OR DEFEATED at the Deliberative Session - that is done on voting day only. Again, it's only about the wording of the articles and the information behind them.

For example, there might be a petition warrant article for a new rescue vehicle for the fire department. The moderator reads the article, someone from the Board of Selectmen or Budget Committee moves and seconds the article. It is then discussed - a department head or concerned citizen will yammer on about the justification for the request. Once all questions/comments have been satisfied from the floor, the moderator will close discussion. A member of the Board of Selectmen or Budget Committee will move and second the article to be restricted for further consideration (meaning no schmoe can come in at the 11th hour and change the article -can you imagine the headache that would be cause if articles weren't restricted for further consideration?! Yikes!) then the meeting moves into the next article, and so on. NO VOTE IS TAKEN on the article....

Technically speaking, the moderator does not adjourn the meeting (the deliberative session) but RECESSES it until voting day!

Now, in the case where someone comes in and says "I want to amend this article to be zero dollars" or "I want to add some words to this article" or whatever - and someone seconds the AMENDMENT - THEN... and only then... is a vote taken on the amendment. The ARTICLE itself still is NOT voted on - just the wording.

All this is done in accordance with Roberts Rules of Order (if you're not familiar with that process, it the same process used by Parliament - more info on that is HERE.)

Again - the final voting (approval or denial) of the articles isn't done until the voting day - that's when you can use your absentee ballot. The argument about what's "great" about SB-2 is that people who can't make the Deliberative Session will still have a voice on voting day. (To which I say - if you can't make Deliberative Session, how are you making an informed decision on what you're voting on? - I am NOT a fan of SB-2!)

Hope that makes sense....


PS
Absentee ballots aren't printed until AFTER the deliberative session because of any changes that may be made on the articles presented!

If you can only change the wording at a Deliberative Session BUT you can change a dollar amount, this is the same as a Town Meeting and I want to be able to vote on it. I think I should have an absentee ballot if something as important as changing a large dollarr amount is concerned. I don't think you understand my point.