Paddle boarder struck by pontoon boat

[Descant]

A paddle boarder who falls is a swimmer and may be distanced from the PB. At that point s/he may be swimming near docks, where, beyond common sense, it is just not allowed. It's like going hiking on a NH mountain; if ill-prepared, you are libel to the state for rescue expenses. Right of way for non-powered vessels notwithstanding, if you're stupid and get hurt, it doesn't matter who is paying the hospital bills, you were still stupid.
Years after the accident, while you are still waiting for the court settlement I hope you will be saying to yourself. "Boy, was I stupid. Bad place to be paddle boarding."

[LikeLakes]

Should kayaks be banned from docking areas as well? People fall in from them quite often, I saw one 2 weeks ago. Canoes?

I realize people fall off paddle boards. Rarely are you separated from the board by more than one swimming stroke. A kayak is much harder to get back into, with a paddle board you simply climb on.

Is it possible for me to have an opinion, and disagree with you, without being stupid?

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Should kayaks be banned from docking areas as well? People fall in from them quite often, I saw one 2 weeks ago. Canoes?

I realize people fall off paddle boards. Rarely are you separated from the board by more than one swimming stroke. A kayak is much harder to get back into, with a paddle board you simply climb on.

Is it possible for me to have an opinion, and disagree with you, without being stupid?

Yes I totally support banning paddle boards from public docks, it is a common sense recipe for disaster. I see no reason to intentionally intermix the two activities of paddle boarding and powerboating in the close and very difficult confines of a public dock area. NOTHING good can come from this interaction, only potential tragedy.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yes I totally support banning paddle boards from public docks, it is a common sense recipe for disaster. I see no reason to intentionally intermix the two activities of paddle boarding and powerboating in the close and very difficult confines of a public dock area. NOTHING good can come from this interaction, only potential tragedy.

So if we used Meredith as the example. Say I pull my truck up to the public launch ramp, drop the paddle boards on the side, go park the truck, and then we head out on the boards. If we are heading south, how far out do we need to paddle before we are clear of the proposed "no paddle board zone" surrounding the docks?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

So if we used Meredith as the example. Say I pull my truck up to the public launch ramp, drop the paddle boards on the side, go park the truck, and then we head out on the boards. If we are heading south, how far out do we need to paddle before we are clear of the proposed "no paddle board zone" surrounding the docks?

By necessity you will need to start there but I would think common sense would tell you to head out away from a busy boating area.

Using a paddle board or a kayak in a busy area does not make sense to me. I think of that every time I see a kayak or paddle board go through the Weirs Channel on a busy day.

It makes about as much sense as going out for exercise and walking down the breakdown lane on Route 93. Why? There are much better places, for both activities.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

By necessity you will need to start there but I would think common sense would tell you to head out away from a busy boating area.

Using a paddle board or a kayak in a busy area does not make sense to me. I think of that every time I see a kayak or paddle board go through the Weirs Channel on a busy day.

It makes about as much sense as going out for exercise and walking down the breakdown lane on Route 93. Why? There are much better places, for both activities.

I agree that I don't really want to be close to the docks. But in the case I mentioned I can either stay maybe 50 ft. clear of them, head past on my way to get further south, do the same on the way back, but I'd certainly be in a high boat traffic area with people lining up to dock. Or, I can go a few hundred yards out, which is a relatively long detour on a paddle board.

I chose Meredith because the docks are right next to the launch, and are substantial in length, so it's not like I can just avoid them without a big alteration of course. No, my intended goal is not to spend a lot of time paddling around the docks, but I don't think it's unreasonable or unsafe to paddle through the area.

Descant, so a person standing on a paddle board with a life jacket on is no safer than a swimmer in the water with an above-water profile of like 8 inches, without a flotation device? Strange logic to me.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I agree that I don't really want to be close to the docks. But in the case I mentioned I can either stay maybe 50 ft. clear of them, head past on my way to get further south, do the same on the way back, but I'd certainly be in a high boat traffic area with people lining up to dock. Or, I can go a few hundred yards out, which is a relatively long detour on a paddle board.

I chose Meredith because the docks are right next to the launch, and are substantial in length, so it's not like I can just avoid them without a big alteration of course. No, my intended goal is not to spend a lot of time paddling around the docks, but I don't think it's unreasonable or unsafe to paddle through the area.

Descant, so a person standing on a paddle board with a life jacket on is no safer than a swimmer in the water with an above-water profile of like 8 inches, without a flotation device? Strange logic to me.

You raise a very legitimate point and at the same time reinforce a great concern.

Why launch a paddle board at a boat ramp? This makes no sense to me at all, its dangerous and challenging place and activity for boaters, and for paddle boarders it looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Now the answer to my first questions is, because where else will you launch them, and the answer to that is, the town should be assessing this matter to ensure the safety of all, and adding an additional and different paddle board launch site. Such a site would not cost a fortune as you should not need ramps, a dock, etc.

There should be a reasonable solution to this that works for everyone and minimizes actual to both groups so we can all use the lake and enjoy a reasonable level of safety from actual risk.

Its not rocket science and its not that hard, we make it all unnecessarily difficult. Why, god only knows, human nature,,,

ATB

[LikeLakes]

You are right XCR, if there was an alternative place for paddle boards and kayaks to launch it would be better for all.

We have launched them on a variety of lakes and ponds in NH, on Champlain, on Lake Placid, among others. Most of the time it is at a public boat launch because there is parking and it is allowed. Ironically, most places with public swimming access will not allow you to launch, they tell you it's for swimmers only and you need to go to a boat launch.

We are competent boarders and very low impact at a launch. I realize not everyone fits those categories. We put the boards on the side somewhere so it doesn't prevent anyone from launching a boat, we get on them and are gone, literally doesn't affect the boat ramp in any way beyond the 90 seconds it takes me to take them out of the truck bed and put them on the ground.

I'm guessing every person on this thread can boat their entire lifetime without hitting, or even endangering, a paddle board or kayak. Unfortunately stuff happens, as did to the person who was hit. But, I'm not sure an incident requires a need to put rules in place. I'd rather see some thoughtful people take a look at the incident and the situation and decide if action is needed or if it's just a case of stuff happening. You can add 20 pages of rules to boating and swimming and paddling on the lake and somehow stuff will still happen occasionally.

[Woodsy]

I find it amazing that every time an accident happens there are those that immediately call for new rules....

It doesn't matter how many rules you add, accidents will happen! This event is a rarity... no need to go down the path of more rules & regulations.

Woodsy

[8gv]

Are there any more details available?

All I have so far is a pontoon and a paddle boarder collided and the paddle boarder went to a hospital.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I find it amazing that every time an accident happens there are those that immediately call for new rules....

It doesn't matter how many rules you add, accidents will happen! This event is a rarity... no need to go down the path of more rules & regulations.

Woodsy

As a general rule I agree, but in this case we are talking about more than the one accident, we are talking about a change in use that was not conceived of when the docks were built. At that time no one could have imagined 30'+ power boats would be fighting for space on those docks and that anyone would be using something like a paddle board in the same exact space at the same exact time. Its not a well considered plan. I suspect town tax dollars could be diverted from some pet project that only benefits the few insiders could be diverted to providing a safer location for the paddle boarders to launch, AND not some obscure place that they dont want to be. Meredith Bay looks like an almost perfect location to paddle board (as said by someone who has never been on one) BUT NOT in and directly around the boat docks. It looks frightening, especially with all the new and unskilled boaters I see struggling at the docks. I cringe to see paddle boarders in that space.

[ITD]

People need to know how to drive their boats. If this person ended up on a dock, it is even more their fault. The paddle board has the right of way, period. The boater should have stopped and waited. If the boater is unable to do so, they shouldn't be at a public dock.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ITD

People need to know how to drive their boats. If this person ended up on a dock, it is even more their fault. The paddle board has the right of way, period. The boater should have stopped and waited. If the boater is unable to do so, they shouldn't be at a public dock.

People need to know how to drive their cars, but scenic walks on interstate highways are prohibited.

And so it should be around docks, just way too much risk. It may not be the paddle boarders fault they got run over, but they will suffer the impact.

Its not about responsibility its about likelihood of a problem and risk if it were to occur, and both are high for impacts between paddle boards and boats in the confines and conditions of boat docks.

Or do you believe you should be able to just walk down the interstate highway and then hold drivers responsible should they run you over,,,

[John Mercier]

We also are not allowed to bicycle or ride a horse on the interstate.

Though maybe someone will come up with a reasonable idea, I doubt you will see Meredith restricted its town docks in the manner you suggest.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

We also are not allowed to bicycle or ride a horse on the interstate.

Though maybe someone will come up with a reasonable idea, I doubt you will see Meredith restricted its town docks in the manner you suggest.

Again, simply providing paddle boarders a different safer and maybe more applicable launch location might fix the problem by getting the paddle boarders away from the risk.

And Im sure brighter people than me can come up with even better ideas.

[chachee52]

Maybe I'm just tired, but making the analogy of walking on the interstate (where people are going 55-70 MPH depending on where you are) and paddle boarders around a dock (where it is headway speed) I think is apples and oranges.
The better analogy would be people are banded from walking in parking lots.

I drive by bicyclists every day down many main, windy, narrow roads with not breakdown lanes. Speed limit is 40-55 in different areas, bike going maybe 20MPH if flat area. We share the road, yes there are accidents where bikes get hit all the time, and I'd say 90+% are due to not paying attention (not just saying the car, but the bike too). But no one is banning the bikes off the road.
I don't know any of the details of this accident except what's on this thread and there isn't much.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by chachee52

The better analogy would be people are banded from walking in parking lots.

That makes no sense to me at all, but thats just my perspective,,,

[John Mercier]

They are comparing speeds.
When the motorized speed is limited, less accidents between all users occur.
Everyone sometimes get distracted, but the slower speed allows for adjustment in our reaction times.

If I am moving slowly around a parking lot, in theory, I should be less likely to strike someone walking around... even though there, in theory, could be a lot more walkers in the area.

[John Mercier]

I don't think EKAL is going to change launch locations.
And I doubt that paddle boarders would accept another location easily.

The public space is simply the public space, with non-motorized having ROW.
The fact that traffic has increased is problematic, but traffic... especially motorized could quickly fade.

Non-motorized users are a more steady stream of income... they aren't likely to zip across the lake to other dining/shopping outlets.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't think EKAL is going to change launch locations.
And I doubt that paddle boarders would accept another location easily.

The public space is simply the public space, with non-motorized having ROW.
The fact that traffic has increased is problematic, but traffic... especially motorized could quickly fade.

Non-motorized users are a more steady stream of income... they aren't likely to zip across the lake to other dining/shopping outlets.

Well EKAL can simply live with the bad press if problems continue,,,

As for ROW, that does little heal the injured that will surly continue to occur if you continue mix such extreme levels of watercraft in that same space.

And regarding "Non-motorized users are a more steady stream of income" I could not disagree more, Meredith is a destination. Clearly you spend little time on the water at the Meredith docks. Even during the week its tough to get a spot to dock for your boat without some wait, and boaters go there for shopping and food and they wait and they spend. I seriously doubt Non-motorized users spend even a fraction of what the power boaters spend in Meredith.

And finally, regarding "motorized could quickly fade" no idea what you base that on. During the height of the pandemic, I struggled to get dock space in Meredith during the middle of the week, and its not getting better as the pandemic restrictions are being rolled back. Last week we were quoted a 1 hour wait for lunch at one of the restaurants close to the dock location and it was evident that many there were boaters. In the last year we recorded record boat sales and this year you cant even get one as there is very little inventory. Formula is currently telling people to put orders in now for next years delivery or risk not getting one and they are running at full capacity.

This challenge of boaters and paddle boarders both operating in the close quarters of public dock space will not get better until towns make better and safer locations available to paddle boarders. Well not until someone invents deflector shields,,,

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ITD

People need to know how to drive their boats. If this person ended up on a dock, it is even more their fault. The paddle board has the right of way, period. The boater should have stopped and waited. If the boater is unable to do so, they shouldn't be at a public dock.

Lake Winnipesaukee won't be safe until canoes, kayaks, sailboats, and SUPs are legally swept from the lake!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by ApS

Lake Winnipesaukee won't be safe until canoes, kayaks, sailboats, and SUPs are legally swept from the lake!

And posts like this kept from the forum,,,

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by ApS

Lake Winnipesaukee won't be safe until canoes, kayaks, sailboats, and SUPs are legally swept from the lake!

Right you are! And get rid of those noisy loons too. No non-motorized craft, franchise The Dive so there are a dozen of them on the lake, and make overnight rafting at sandbars legal. It will be a paradise!

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Right you are! And get rid of those noisy loons too. No non-motorized craft, franchise The Dive so there are a dozen of them on the lake, and make overnight rafting at sandbars legal. It will be a paradise!

Dont forget run sewer lines into the lake to save on septic system costs, and besides its natural fertilizer

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

You are right XCR, if there was an alternative place for paddle boards and kayaks to launch it would be better for all.

We have launched them on a variety of lakes and ponds in NH, on Champlain, on Lake Placid, among others. Most of the time it is at a public boat launch because there is parking and it is allowed. Ironically, most places with public swimming access will not allow you to launch, they tell you it's for swimmers only and you need to go to a boat launch.

We are competent boarders and very low impact at a launch. I realize not everyone fits those categories. We put the boards on the side somewhere so it doesn't prevent anyone from launching a boat, we get on them and are gone, literally doesn't affect the boat ramp in any way beyond the 90 seconds it takes me to take them out of the truck bed and put them on the ground.

I'm guessing every person on this thread can boat their entire lifetime without hitting, or even endangering, a paddle board or kayak. Unfortunately stuff happens, as did to the person who was hit. But, I'm not sure an incident requires a need to put rules in place. I'd rather see some thoughtful people take a look at the incident and the situation and decide if action is needed or if it's just a case of stuff happening. You can add 20 pages of rules to boating and swimming and paddling on the lake and somehow stuff will still happen occasionally.

Very well said, nothing more I can add and no disputes here. Thanks.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Yes I totally support banning paddle boards from public docks, it is a common sense recipe for disaster. I see no reason to intentionally intermix the two activities of paddle boarding and powerboating in the close and very difficult confines of a public dock area. NOTHING good can come from this interaction, only potential tragedy.

I find it interesting that open carry is a right, never to be infringed on, but paddle boarders should be banned at a public dock because they get in the way of motorboats.

Really not looking to spark debate, just find it interesting.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I find it interesting that open carry is a right, never to be infringed on, but paddle boarders should be banned at a public dock because they get in the way of motorboats.

Really not looking to spark debate, just find it interesting.

Why, a gun in a holster has no impact on anyone, but an unpowered vessel trying to navigate in close quarters sharing the same space with much larger powered vessels presents a very real danger of being unable to avoid a potential impact when you throw in the challenges of other boats wakes, wind, current, etc.

These are simple mechanical matters, not personal fears.

Its not a matter of preference, its hard facts, which is what we should be basing risk on.

Now if you are taking about so reasonable standards that should be applied to open carry, such as the need for the gun to have a retention strap if it is carried in any other position than upright, or when not in a fitted holster, we might have a middle ground here. I'll be the first to say we cannot have guns falling our of holsters hitting the ground. We can also discuss handling of firearms in crowded areas, clearly racking a slide or rotating a cylinder in Market Basket is bad for everyone! Factual details are where we need to focus, not on fantasy or fear mongering.

Does that help to change your perspective on either matter at all?

If not, all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion, you will get no personal attack from me.

ATB

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Why, a gun in a holster has no impact on anyone, but an unpowered vessel trying to navigate in close quarters sharing the same space with much larger powered vessels presents a very real danger of being unable to avoid a potential impact when you throw in the challenges of other boats wakes, wind, current, etc.

These are simple mechanical matters, not personal fears.

Its not a matter of preference, its hard facts, which is what we should be basing risk on.

Now if you are taking about so reasonable standards that should be applied to open carry, such as the need for the gun to have a retention strap if it is carried in any other position than upright, or when not in a fitted holster, we might have a middle ground here. I'll be the first to say we cannot have guns falling our of holsters hitting the ground. We can also discuss handling of firearms in crowded areas, clearly racking a slide or rotating a cylinder in Market Basket is bad for everyone! Factual details are where we need to focus, not on fantasy or fear mongering.

Does that help to change your perspective on either matter at all?

If not, all I can say is you are entitled to your opinion, you will get no personal attack from me.

ATB

There are a couple of cases of open carry incidents in the link below that might make you reassess your perspective.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...of-open-carry/


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[CK5 Truck]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

Should kayaks be banned from docking areas as well? People fall in from them quite often, I saw one 2 weeks ago. Canoes?

I realize people fall off paddle boards. Rarely are you separated from the board by more than one swimming stroke. A kayak is much harder to get back into, with a paddle board you simply climb on.

Is it possible for me to have an opinion, and disagree with you, without being stupid?

Canoes and kayaks are easier to control than a paddle board, people (even inexperienced ones) rarely fall out. Paddle boarding is not so much this way, it takes practice, you say you are into all 3 so you know this. Now put a new inexperienced person on one say a renter and put them in an already congested area like the Town Docks in Meredith and YES no good can come from that. They have no business being there. Im not saying they have no business on the lake, because EVERYONE has the right to enjoy doing what they do its my opinion and im sure others that its a bad idea. Personally IDK why anyone would want to canoe, kayak or paddle board on Winnipesaukee its crowded and the water is rough on weekends, how is that enjoyable? I live on Hermit Lake in Sanbornon, this is a perfect lake for those activities, 10hp pontoons only, no other boats allowed, its quiet its peaceful and enjoyable for sure.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

A paddle boarder who falls is a swimmer and may be distanced from the PB. At that point s/he may be swimming near docks, where, beyond common sense, it is just not allowed. It's like going hiking on a NH mountain; if ill-prepared, you are libel to the state for rescue expenses. Right of way for non-powered vessels notwithstanding, if you're stupid and get hurt, it doesn't matter who is paying the hospital bills, you were still stupid.
Years after the accident, while you are still waiting for the court settlement I hope you will be saying to yourself. "Boy, was I stupid. Bad place to be paddle boarding."

I think you mean liable... and not quite.
You have to be grossly negligent, and only are subject to billing for the State portion of the rescue.

In your comparison, the PBer would need to be ill equipped, and require state expenditure due to their actions.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I think you mean liable... and not quite.
You have to be grossly negligent, and only are subject to billing for the State portion of the rescue.

In your comparison, the PBer would need to be ill equipped, and require state expenditure due to their actions.

Yes, liable. Thank you. Autocorrect beat me.
I agree with your clarification. The main point was that new RSA's are not necessarily needed when towns have the ability to control local swim areas. Paddle boards, to me are not any safer around public docks than swimming.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Descant

Years after the accident, while you are still waiting for the court settlement I hope you will be saying to yourself. "Boy, was I stupid. Bad place to be paddle boarding."

I really dont think so with todays society, I honestly think they will be saying I cant wait to get my settlement, I'm going to be on "My Lottery Dream Home" show. And I have seen it, there was a guy who got a huge settlement in FLA that was on the show after he had been in a horrible jet ski accident.

Its not the world we grew up in, people live for today and if a horrible accident elevates your financial status to higher level than you could have ever earned by working, its worth a lifetime of pain and suffering (to most,,,)

I would rather be dirt poor than suffer one broken bone, or take a risk knowing there was a potential significant danger. Not todays generations, they fear no impact, they simply have faith that there will be a BIG payout for their sufferings.

Well thats what I am seeing,,,