Trail Closure Notice

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Skip

Of course you can’t, who would be surprised that for the thousandth time you would try to awaken the speed limit debate in yet another totally unrelated thread?

Not "totally unrelated" at all. Trails are closing because a small number of sledders have no regard for their neighbors' wishes.

On the lake in the summer, there are a minority of boaters with a similar disregard for others. The big difference is that in the winter, the offended landowners have an easy solution. In the summer, it's much tougher for those offended, but ApS's response impulse is the same as the landowners closing their trails.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Not "totally unrelated" at all. Trails are closing because a small number of sledders have no regard for their neighbors' wishes.

On the lake in the summer, there are a minority of boaters with a similar disregard for others. The big difference is that in the winter, the offended landowners have an easy solution. In the summer, it's much tougher for those offended, but ApS's response impulse is the same as the landowners closing their trails.

From my observations and experiences there is far more than a minority of scofflaw boaters during the summer...but the scarcity of MP is the reason...the tools know they won’t be caught.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Not "totally unrelated" at all. Trails are closing because a small number of sledders have no regard for their neighbors' wishes.

On the lake in the summer, there are a minority of boaters with a similar disregard for others. The big difference is that in the winter, the offended landowners have an easy solution. In the summer, it's much tougher for those offended, but ApS's response impulse is the same as the landowners closing their trails.

I will respectfully disagree. I’ve served on all board positions of my club, including club president. I’ve also served on several board positions including Vice President of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association. Been a groomer operator for well over a decade. Sadly, I have too many first person dealings with trail closures within my club (OVSC) and at the State level while with the NHSA.

NEVER once was a trail closed due to speeding sleds. The most frequent reason is due to off trail riders. Loud (illegal exhaust) sleds followed closely by littering and property damage are a close second. And following up close behind is trail/property damage done by ATVs and trucks/ mud bloggers any time of the year, but particularly off season.

‘Nough said......

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Skip

I will respectfully disagree. I’ve served on all board positions of my club, including club president. I’ve also served on several board positions including Vice President of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association. Been a groomer operator for well over a decade. Sadly, I have too many first person dealings with trail closures within my club (OVSC) and at the State level while with the NHSA.

NEVER once was a trail closed due to speeding sleds. The most frequent reason is due to off trail riders. Loud (illegal exhaust) sleds followed closely by littering and property damage are a close second. And following up close behind is trail/property damage done by ATVs and trucks/ mud bloggers any time of the year, but particularly off season.

‘Nough said......

Um...I'm not sure you do disagree. I did not mention speed in my post. I referred to disregard for others.

The issue is not the specific offense, but the absence of sensitivity, manners and common sense. Noise, speed, litter, property damage, right of way rules, etc...They're kind of all the same in terms of the reactions they provoke.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Um...I'm not sure you do disagree. I did not mention speed in my post. I referred to disregard for others.

The issue is not the specific offense, but the absence of sensitivity, manners and common sense. Noise, speed, litter, property damage, right of way rules, etc...They're kind of all the same in terms of the reactions they provoke.

Totally agree...thanks!

[swnoel]

What gives anyone who isn't a member of a club, the right to operate on any of the trails that are obviously private. I can't imagine just the fact they have a registered sled would give them that right... or has it something to do with registration funds used for maintaining those trails?

[Woodsy]

A NH sled registration gives you access to all of the sled trails in NH... just like a car registration gives you access to all public roads.

Most of the sled trails are on private, not public property. This gets ugly when people do not abide by the rules and ride off trail, leave trash, etc etc. The property owners then rescind their permission to cross the property!

Moral of the story.... don't be a TOOL! Respect the property owners and stay on the trail... carry in / carry out... keep quiet and don't mod your exhaust! If you go faster than 45... man up and take your speeding ticket if F&G catches you!

It is really pretty simple!

Woodsy

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Skip

I will respectfully disagree. I’ve served on all board positions of my club, including club president. I’ve also served on several board positions including Vice President of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association. Been a groomer operator for well over a decade. Sadly, I have too many first person dealings with trail closures within my club (OVSC) and at the State level while with the NHSA.

NEVER once was a trail closed due to speeding sleds.
[#1]The most frequent reason is due to off trail riders.
[#2]Loud (illegal exhaust) sleds followed closely by littering and property damage are a close second. And following up close behind is trail/property damage done by ATVs and trucks/ mud bloggers any time of the year, but particularly off season. ‘Nough said......

It should be mentioned that a noisy sled is unlikely to get quieter as it achieves—or exceeds—posted speeds.

(As surmised by its #2 position above).

.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by ApS

It should be mentioned that a noisy sled is unlikely to get quieter as it achieves—or exceeds—posted speeds.

(As surmised by its #2 position above).

.

Yup, kind of like those old planes you love so much landing right off the lake. Its only important to you when it serves your agenda.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Yup, kind of like those old planes you love so much landing right off the lake. Its only important to you when it serves your agenda.

Landings are quiet. But noise and speed are important regardless of whatever portion of the country they occur.

If you listen to radio, have conversations, or use a telephone at the lake, excessive noise is an undeniably anti-social intrusion.

Sure, acceleration is a factor, but where there are hills, there is going to be excessive noise. Stand alongside Wolfeboro's North Main Street some time, and try to tell me that a 4-stroke Harley is quiet going uphill.

I've pointed out my family moved to the Airpark—I was only 12, and had no "say". As it turned out, we were insulated from takeoff noise by a long, tall, hillside—and seldom heard landings. Perhaps, however, only on windless days—and only then—a landing consisted of a "chirp" of tires.

My poor neighbors near Thomas Point have had the worst noise from floatplane takeoffs, as high-drag "supersonic propeller-tip speed" blasted their ears. Wolfeboro property turnovers near Thomas Point are frequent. (A problem with buying "off-season").

Ironically, the Airpark's designated "lake landing strips" have become useless, as the increase in tubing—along with ever-increasing boat wakes—has turned floatplanes away.

My personal dislikes:

• Noisy sleds on Winnipesaukee ice.

• All floatplanes but Cessna 190 and one 130-HP Luscombe.

The Luscombe has the shortest takeoff run I've ever seen, and climbs to an impressive altitude immediately. Because free rides were given to Scouts, what little noise there was, could be overlooked.

.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by ApS

Landings are quiet. But noise and speed are important regardless of whatever portion of the country they occur.

If you listen to radio, have conversations, or use a telephone at the lake, excessive noise is an undeniably anti-social intrusion.

Sure, acceleration is a factor, but where there are hills, there is going to be excessive noise. Stand alongside Wolfeboro's North Main Street some time, and try to tell me that a 4-stroke Harley is quiet going uphill.

I've pointed out my family moved to the Airpark—I was only 12, and had no "say". As it turned out, we were insulated from takeoff noise by a long, tall, hillside—and seldom heard landings. Perhaps, however, only on windless days—and only then—a landing consisted of a "chirp" of tires.

My poor neighbors near Thomas Point have had the worst noise from floatplane takeoffs, as high-drag "supersonic propeller-tip speed" blasted their ears. Wolfeboro property turnovers near Thomas Point are frequent. (A problem with buying "off-season").

Ironically, the Airpark's designated "lake landing strips" have become useless, as the increase in tubing—along with ever-increasing boat wakes—has turned floatplanes away.

My personal dislikes:

• Noisy sleds on Winnipesaukee ice.

• All floatplanes but Cessna 190 and one 130-HP Luscombe.

The Luscombe has the shortest takeoff run I've ever seen, and climbs to an impressive altitude immediately. Because free rides were given to Scouts, what little noise there was, could be overlooked.

.

Maybe we can get back on topic here. Float planes have nothing to do with snowmobile trail closures. For that matter, load sleds on the lake have nothing to do with trail closures, either.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

It should be mentioned that a noisy sled is unlikely to get quieter as it achieves—or exceeds—posted speeds.

(As surmised by its #2 position above).

.

Your thinking is incorrect. A sled running at or near the legal snowmobile speed limit of 45 is quieter than when it is accelerating. It is loafing along at 45.

[Woodsy]

APS (Always Pushing Sh**) bringing up the speed limit where it has no relevance!

Unfortunately for APS, Speed has absolutely nothing to do with trail closures! For the most part loud sleds are thing of the past... especially with the rising popularity of the 4-stroke machines. You can drive a whisper quiet 200+ HP 4 stroke right from the factory!

Woodsy

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

APS (Always Pushing Sh**) bringing up the speed limit where it has no relevance!

Unfortunately for APS, Speed has absolutely nothing to do with trail closures! For the most part loud sleds are thing of the past... especially with the rising popularity of the 4-stroke machines. You can drive a whisper quiet 200+ HP 4 stroke right from the factory!

Woodsy

Maybe speed/noise is a problem in the Sunshine State? Perhaps our esteemed poster could point us to the Florida Snowmobile Association page for further details??