vhf handheld

jayp603 · 04-29-2008, 07:49 PM

do you think a 3 watt handheld would be adaqate?

Knomad · 04-29-2008, 08:00 PM

Depends on how far you want to communicate and where you are on the lake. We have a 5 watt that works pretty well, but won't reach reach from Melvin Bay to Saunders Bay in Gilford.

Airwaves · 04-29-2008, 09:22 PM

Unless you have a space problem on your boat, I'd go with a regular VHF Marine Radio, you can pick one up for about the same price as a hand held and can be heard and transmit further than a handheld.

Resident 2B · 04-29-2008, 11:01 PM

I agree with Airwaves. If you have the space, the only way to go is with the regular VHF. The 3 watt and 5 watt hand helds to not carry far enough.

If you are out on the lake and have a real problem on your boat, do you want a radio that you know many people will hear, or do you want a radio that you hope some people might hear?

R2B

upthesaukee · 04-30-2008, 08:29 AM

VHF radios operate on line of sight, and the radio waves do very little bending. One distinct advantage of a "regular" unit will be the antenna, which will do a better job of sending, and especially receiving a signal over a handheld's on board antenna, along with the 5-8 times greater wattage.

Phantom · 05-01-2008, 06:52 AM

Jayp603 -- I have to concur with the above. We have both handhelds and a 25 W unit in the boat. The handhelds (because they are virtually "Line of Sight) are extremely handy for us but are used as a "secondary" device. For example - our 5W handhelds are barely audible in the background noise from Merideth NWZ to FL#1 which is strait line of sight. When you get a few islands in your path, forget it. On the otherhand, if your intent is to only "listen" a 5W will recieve most of the chatter ......... you just might not be able to get back to the boat xmitting, based on their location

We use it a lot for boat to boat conversation, when friends visit and they don't have a VHF we give them a portable ......... saves yelling back and forth between boats (hard to hear the portable when underway however).

Hope that helps

kjbathe · 05-01-2008, 10:16 AM

This thread prompted me to look at some new radios and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with or answers to the following technical questions, or recommendations for fixed units.

Has anyone used the Digital Selective Calling (DSC) feature on the lake? Does Marine Patrol have the capability to monitor DSC Distress Calls and collect GPS positions?

Has anyone received a NOAA Weather Alert while boating? I got off the water just before a severe thunder/lightning storm last summer and thought I had my radio set correctly to receive storm warnings, but the radio never triggered.

NHskier · 05-01-2008, 07:55 PM

We have a handheld VHF unit and picked up one or two NOAA alerts OK last year.

Skipper of the Sea Que · 05-01-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjbathe

Has anyone used the Digital Selective Calling (DSC) feature on the lake? Does Marine Patrol have the capability to monitor DSC Distress Calls and collect GPS positions?

No, the Marine Patrol HQ does NOT monitor Marine Channel 70 for DSC distress calls. They are not DSC capable. Last season they said that DSC was in discussion but no DSC as of May 1, 2008. Last season Tow Boat US and Sea Tow were not using DSC.

Several times during the summer of 2007 I scanned through channel 70 (the channel exclusively for DSC use) and I heard a few data transmissions. So some folks are using DSC around Winnie. I also heard a lot of voice chatter on Ch 70 which could block DSC signals. Some people just don't know (or care) what channel assignments are for and what non-commercial channels they should use.

Imagine the possibilities if we all had Marine VHF with DSC and GPS. You can locate your friends boat in seconds if your friend wants you to "see" him. Technology exists that could allow everyone to see the location of other boats (even kayaks) within radio range.

Safe boating.

Weekend Pundit · 05-10-2008, 06:43 PM

I've used my 5 watt handheld with the rubber duck antenna supplied with it and with an antenna mounted on my boat. At best I'd get 6 to 10 miles over open water with the rubber duck antenna. Using it with the 'big' antenna on the boat I've been able to reach from one end of the lake to the other.

As someone involved with radio for almost 40 years, I can safely say the antenna makes a bigger difference than what's attached to it. The rubber duck antenna supplied with most handhelds aren't much better than a leaky dummy load. (A dummy load is a resistor used to emulate a properly tuned antenna. It is not supposed to radiate radio waves, which is why it is used while testing radio transmitters.) They are a compromise at best.

There are some aftermarket rubber duck style antennas that perform better than the ones supplied with the handhelds. Even so, they still won't perform as well as a full sized purpose built antenna.

NOTE: Not all handhelds have antennas that can be removed. But many do.

Airwaves · 05-12-2008, 12:24 AM

Weekend Pundit

40 years heh? I feel like a youngster again! I've only got 35!

You are 100% correct about the antenna the radio really doesn't mean Jack unless you have a good antenna. Although a 25 watt Marine radio will get a clearer signal through than a 3 watt handheld will. The Mic is better as well.

That said, and I am going to assume you are on the engineering side of the business?

I have a condo so I can't have an outdoor antenna for Marine VHF so what is the best I can do installing an indoor antenna? (I know, don't) I'm thinking a boat antenna in the closet? If this isn't possible then I don't want to waste my time, but on the other hand...?

Weekend Pundit · 05-16-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Weekend Pundit

That said, and I am going to assume you are on the engineering side of the business?

I have a condo so I can't have an outdoor antenna for Marine VHF so what is the best I can do installing an indoor antenna? (I know, don't) I'm thinking a boat antenna in the closet? If this isn't possible then I don't want to waste my time, but on the other hand...?

Between ham radio, commercial radio, land mobile radio, radar, and gummint work, I've been dealing with radio for a long time. I've designed, built and serviced radio equipment.

A boat antenna in the closet is one possible solution. I've done that when living in an apartment. I've also hidden them in the attic when I've had access. Do you have a balcony or deck? I can suggest a number of ways to hide antennas in plain sight.

Dave M · 07-11-2008, 07:26 AM

Been looking at getting a VHF Handheld Radio, space an issue. Is one brand any better than another. Saw a Uniden which had good ratings. Also is 5W the max in a handheld.
Weekend, in your post it seems you connected a external antenna to a handheld. If so, can this be done with any handheld.
Also what does the VHF radio buy you other than weather alerts. My cell phone works everywhere on the lake.

Dave M

Phantom · 07-11-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

Also what does the VHF radio buy you other than weather alerts. My cell phone works everywhere on the lake.

Dave M

Dave M -- it buys you the ability to hail other "nearby" (because it's a handheld) boats. Perhaps you want to converse or find friends when out on the boat (without using the Cell).

It buys you the ability to converse with a similar unit on shore. Although technically illegal (i.e. ship to shore) it saves yelling from the waterfront to the house.

What you also get is boater to boater info on approaching storms or other good miscelania info.

Other than that - in a general "safety" sense, if you have your cell with NHMP's number (I recommend) programmed then your covered for emergancy situations.

I caution you as one who use to use a handheld until installing a "Big Radio" ---The handheld, unless you also purchase an external "amplified" speaker will be near impossible to hear when underway. Underway you will have to hold it up next to your ear to hear -- consider that !!

Skipper of the Sea Que · 07-11-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

Also is 5W the max in a handheld.
Weekend, in your post it seems you connected a external antenna to a handheld. If so, can this be done with any handheld.

WP mentioned it in an earlier post, not all handhelds have the ability to connect to an external antenna. Many do but many do not. 3-5 watts is the general output power of those walkie-talkies (mine puts out 7 watts but, alas, it is not FCC approved for Marine VHF use).

The 5 watts connected to a Big Radio antenna will act like more than 5 watts.
The rubber antennas that come with most of those radios are not efficient. Your radio may put out 5 watts but the rubber antenna attenuates that signal so you are actually radiating LESS than 5 watts.

Not all handhelds are equal. In addition to features (like types of scan, type of battery, running from boat power, water proofing, loudness of the speaker...) there are other specifications that may differ. Probably won;t make much difference to the average user. Some radios get "deaf" when a nearby VHF is transmitting on another channel - to what extent depends on the radio.

By the way WP (I think Airwaves already knows this), I've been playing with radio stuff since 1957 (as a mere child) - a FCC licensed HAM since 1958. A walkie-talkie back then was almost as big as a house . You probably also had the old FCC commercial license, First Class Radiotelephone (or telegraph) w/wo Radar endorsement. I earned the Radar endorsement on mine - it's still on my General Class Radiotelephone license. Sorry to see that commercial license structure change...

73

Nauset · 07-11-2008, 12:37 PM

Another advantage to a fixed mount radio is that it is connected to the boat battery and not likely to run out of juice.

Kamper · 07-11-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Weekend Pundit
...
I have a condo so I can't have an outdoor antenna for Marine VHF so what is the best I can do installing an indoor antenna ...?

You can hide a short "whip" inside a fake plastic log. Put a plant on it and no one will know what it is. The trick will be hiding the cable access into the house.

Are you allowed flags? You can get them with "sleeves' to pull over the top and would look great on top of a short 'fiber-glass rod.'

Good luck!

EricP · 07-11-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

I have a condo so I can't have an outdoor antenna for Marine VHF so what is the best I can do installing an indoor antenna? (I know, don't) I'm thinking a boat antenna in the closet? If this isn't possible then I don't want to waste my time, but on the other hand...?

Use a DirecTV or Dish network dish, federal law allows anyone even in a condo to have satellite tv if they want to. Then somehow work the Marine antenna into the mix. Just a thought.

Dave M · 07-22-2008, 02:51 PM

I'm down to the ICOM M72(6W) or the Uniden MHS350(5W). My question is the Uniden has this feature S.A.M.E.(Specfic Area Message Alert). There's a code you put in and when N.O.A.A. broadcast, it looks for this code for your immediate area. Is this feature worth it. Does N.O.A.A. cover areas enough to not need this feature when broadcasting.

I'm leaning towards the M72 due to having an extra large speaker. What I'm been told I can put a short whip on my railing and I'm good to go.

Thanks in advance

Dave M

04-30-2008, 08:29 AM	#5
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,398 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	Don't forget line of sight! VHF radios operate on line of sight, and the radio waves do very little bending. One distinct advantage of a "regular" unit will be the antenna, which will do a better job of sending, and especially receiving a signal over a handheld's on board antenna, along with the 5-8 times greater wattage. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

05-01-2008, 06:52 AM	#6
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,931 Thanks: 445 Thanked 604 Times in 340 Posts	Jayp603 -- I have to concur with the above. We have both handhelds and a 25 W unit in the boat. The handhelds (because they are virtually "Line of Sight) are extremely handy for us but are used as a "secondary" device. For example - our 5W handhelds are barely audible in the background noise from Merideth NWZ to FL#1 which is strait line of sight. When you get a few islands in your path, forget it. On the otherhand, if your intent is to only "listen" a 5W will recieve most of the chatter ......... you just might not be able to get back to the boat xmitting, based on their location We use it a lot for boat to boat conversation, when friends visit and they don't have a VHF we give them a portable ......... saves yelling back and forth between boats (hard to hear the portable when underway however). Hope that helps __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

05-01-2008, 10:16 AM	#7
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 281 Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts	Digital Selective Calling / Distress Calling This thread prompted me to look at some new radios and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with or answers to the following technical questions, or recommendations for fixed units. Has anyone used the Digital Selective Calling (DSC) feature on the lake? Does Marine Patrol have the capability to monitor DSC Distress Calls and collect GPS positions? Has anyone received a NOAA Weather Alert while boating? I got off the water just before a severe thunder/lightning storm last summer and thought I had my radio set correctly to receive storm warnings, but the radio never triggered.

05-01-2008, 07:55 PM	#8
NHskier Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 284 Thanks: 40 Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts	We have a handheld VHF unit and picked up one or two NOAA alerts OK last year. __________________ NHskier

05-10-2008, 06:43 PM	#10
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 291 Thanks: 19 Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts	VHF handheld using better antenna I've used my 5 watt handheld with the rubber duck antenna supplied with it and with an antenna mounted on my boat. At best I'd get 6 to 10 miles over open water with the rubber duck antenna. Using it with the 'big' antenna on the boat I've been able to reach from one end of the lake to the other. As someone involved with radio for almost 40 years, I can safely say the antenna makes a bigger difference than what's attached to it. The rubber duck antenna supplied with most handhelds aren't much better than a leaky dummy load. (A dummy load is a resistor used to emulate a properly tuned antenna. It is not supposed to radiate radio waves, which is why it is used while testing radio transmitters.) They are a compromise at best. There are some aftermarket rubber duck style antennas that perform better than the ones supplied with the handhelds. Even so, they still won't perform as well as a full sized purpose built antenna. NOTE: Not all handhelds have antennas that can be removed. But many do. Last edited by Weekend Pundit; 05-10-2008 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Forgot to end a sentence!

04-29-2008, 07:49 PM	#1
jayp603 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 50 Thanks: 3 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	vhf handheld do you think a 3 watt handheld would be adaqate?

04-29-2008, 08:00 PM	#2
Knomad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Center Tuftonboro Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts	Depends on how far you want to communicate and where you are on the lake. We have a 5 watt that works pretty well, but won't reach reach from Melvin Bay to Saunders Bay in Gilford.

04-29-2008, 09:22 PM	#3
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Unless you have a space problem on your boat, I'd go with a regular VHF Marine Radio, you can pick one up for about the same price as a hand held and can be heard and transmit further than a handheld.

04-29-2008, 11:01 PM	#4
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,352 Thanks: 987 Thanked 310 Times in 161 Posts	I agree with Airwaves. If you have the space, the only way to go is with the regular VHF. The 3 watt and 5 watt hand helds to not carry far enough. If you are out on the lake and have a real problem on your boat, do you want a radio that you know many people will hear, or do you want a radio that you hope some people might hear? R2B

05-12-2008, 12:24 AM	#11
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Weekend Pundit 40 years heh? I feel like a youngster again! I've only got 35! You are 100% correct about the antenna the radio really doesn't mean Jack unless you have a good antenna. Although a 25 watt Marine radio will get a clearer signal through than a 3 watt handheld will. The Mic is better as well. That said, and I am going to assume you are on the engineering side of the business? I have a condo so I can't have an outdoor antenna for Marine VHF so what is the best I can do installing an indoor antenna? (I know, don't) I'm thinking a boat antenna in the closet? If this isn't possible then I don't want to waste my time, but on the other hand...?

07-11-2008, 07:26 AM	#13
Dave M Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 395 Thanks: 4 Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts	Been looking at getting a VHF Handheld Radio, space an issue. Is one brand any better than another. Saw a Uniden which had good ratings. Also is 5W the max in a handheld. Weekend, in your post it seems you connected a external antenna to a handheld. If so, can this be done with any handheld. Also what does the VHF radio buy you other than weather alerts. My cell phone works everywhere on the lake. Dave M

07-11-2008, 12:37 PM	#16
Nauset Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 95 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts	Another advantage to a fixed mount radio is that it is connected to the boat battery and not likely to run out of juice.

07-22-2008, 02:51 PM	#19
Dave M Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 395 Thanks: 4 Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts	VHF handheld - another ? I'm down to the ICOM M72(6W) or the Uniden MHS350(5W). My question is the Uniden has this feature S.A.M.E.(Specfic Area Message Alert). There's a code you put in and when N.O.A.A. broadcast, it looks for this code for your immediate area. Is this feature worth it. Does N.O.A.A. cover areas enough to not need this feature when broadcasting. I'm leaning towards the M72 due to having an extra large speaker. What I'm been told I can put a short whip on my railing and I'm good to go. Thanks in advance Dave M