building Winni Sailing

[fatlazyless]

Thanks for the aerial photo......never could have done that myself....too technology challenging for me......technology dummy here! That's an excellent photo too, so thanks again!

From the photo, it looks like the unlabeled sewerage pumping station utility building is actually on the Lake Shore Park property, and right on the right hand border between Lake Shore Park & the waterfront dirt access road in Ellacoya.

Just look at all the oak trees in full leaf up top, just below the sandy beach, and not far from the rest room building.......a considerable amount of open treed space there. The rest room building is on the right side, close to the boundary, close to the unimproved boat launch, and close to the sandy beach. That one large restroom & shower building is the only structure that is up front of the rv parking sites and somewhat close to the water.

A healthy looking stream, the Poor Farm Brook, separates the rv campground (37 sites-forty seven dollars/night) on the right from the public (four dollar/adults) bathing beach on the left. If I remember correct, the U.S. Geological Survey is the federal agency that has a water level monitoring station on or in the Poor Farm Brook and close to the state highway.

The entire Ellacoya State Beach(left side) and RV Campground(right side) has 65.5 acres total, combined between the two, side by side, State of New Hampshire facilities.

Is there enough room up front for a sailing center on the under-used and totally undeveloped beach in front of the rv campground? Considering that the state wants the sailing center to pay for improvements to the access road, boat launch, and large rest room and shower building plus of course the expense of building the sailing center building and dock system plus some other items I do not recall......it would be a major community fund raising effort all around.

[NoBozo]

I had no idea that Ellacoya boundry extended to the left, beyond the RV campground. I had thought the campground was IT. So maybe this idea is feasable after all. NB

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Thanks for the aerial photo......never could have done that myself....too technology challenging for me......technology dummy here! That's an excellent photo too, so thanks again!

That's a Satellite Photo using Google Earth. It's real easy. Just "Google" ..Google Earth and download it and install it, then try it yourself. It's FREE. You can go anywhere in world and Zoom Down and see whatever you wish. When it's installed, it puts an Icon on your desktop so you can go there anytime. Find your own house. Look in your neighbors back yard..the one with the high fence... NB

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

From the photo, it looks like the unlabeled sewerage pumping station utility building is actually on the Lake Shore Park property, and right on the right hand border between Lake Shore Park & the waterfront dirt access road in Ellacoya

When the state wanted to put the line in, LSP allowed it to run thru the park, under our marina and then on thru Ellacoya. Saved the state tearing up Rt. 11 and made the hook-up for all of us in LSP a lot less expensive. Good deal all around.

[robmac]

while I believe that the sailing program is an asset to all who take advantage of it,I must admit I am abit concerned as once you allow private concerns on public land it becomes very difficult to undue.While funds are needed from donations to keep the sailing program alive and growing I still haven't seen why a pavillion is needed. I would love to see my daughter learn to sail if she chooses I would donate for the opportunity,so I guess I'm missing the need for a new structure. If participants are either pay as you go or donating for the program is there really a need to add another burden such as building maintanence to the equation? JMHO,but I think maybe it deserves a look,and by the way if you haven't guessed I think the sailing program is a benefit to the region.

[whalley1]

I went to the Gilford tax map and the amount of land on the water side of route 11 that the Park actually uses is only 23 acres. According to the state website the land on the opposite side would be very difficult to develop for campsites. Unfortunately the size of the map file is to large to post.

Here is a link for the map. You can zoom in to it and it will give acres. http://www.mapsonline.net/gilfordnh/

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by whalley1

I went to the Gilford tax map and the amount of land on the water side of route 11 that the Park actually uses is only 23 acres. According to the state website the land on the opposite side would be very difficult to develop for campsites. Unfortunately the size of the map file is to large to post.

Here is a link for the map. You can zoom in to it and it will give acres. http://www.mapsonline.net/gilfordnh/

Here is your map. (from Town map)

Note LSP property is on the right, the small blocked off area halfway down the line between LSP and Ellacoya is the state sewer pumping station.

[Yosemite Sam]

FLL
The sewerage pumping station utility building is not on Lake Shore Park property. The boundaries are marked in yellow.



The below photo shows the land on the opposite side of Rt 11.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

FLL
The sewerage pumping station utility building is not on Lake Shore Park property. The boundaries are marked in yellow.



The below photo shows the land on the opposite side of Rt 11.

Sam, is correct, I misstated. The cut out chunk of land for the pumping station transferred to the state at the time of the construction of the pumping station.

[fatlazyless]

As many reading this already know, the Ames Farm Inn boat launch area is a 5-10 minute drive south of the Ellacoya State Beach & RV Campground. With Ames' boat launch area now closed to none inn guests, i.e. day-tripper trailer boaters, it seems to me that building a state boat launch at Ellacoya that includes vehicle parking and rest rooms would quickly have Ellacoya replacing Ames as it was formerly used.

Newfound, Squam, & Winnisquam all have no-charge state boat launches whose construction was paid with money from boat registration fees. Winnipesaukee does not have a similar STATE boat launch, so putting one in at Ellacoya would be a big benefit to trailer boaters.

Is there room at Ellacoya for a sailboat center, boat launch, parking and existing rv campground? As the saying goes; where there's a will, there is a way! Or, at least a number of very interested family members!
..............

Ok.......here's something else for all you legal-beagles out there to consider! If we take a look at the original 1963 gift of the 65.5 acres of Ellacoya land that was donated by Heap Big Chief Ellacoya to the peoples of New Hampshire, we can easily see that this wonderfull 65.5 acre parcel of waterfront land came with a few strings attached. Namely, it came with a watersport use stipulation; "Whereby said 65.5 acres that includes two separate natural sandy beaches of 750' and 450' it is my strong belief that the entire 65.5 acres should be devoted to waterfront activities: Specifically; swimming, boating, sailing, sunbathing, waterskiing, wading, trailer boating, teaching sailing, kayaking, canoing, rowboating, rafting, motorboating, fishing, scuba diving and related activities!"

Note that rv campgrounding is simply not amoung the list of encouraged waterfront activities......NOT....as in NOWHERE....so what the heck is an rv campground that charges $47/night doing on the shores of Lake Winnipesaukee. Besides, most nights something like 75-90% of the sites go unused! And, consider that the not-so-far-away White Mountain National Forest has 23 different tent/rv campgrounds spread all over the highly scenic and geographically signifigant mountains of the white mountains and the U S Forest Service charges much less! The 23 WMNF campgrounds only cost $16 or $20/night depending on the individual campground's location!

So take that Ellacoya RV Campground......you are most definately way over-priced and way under-used and simply do not belong .......so just go away....and prepare to get reconstructed into a more State of NH - user friendly waterfront type of a use!!

thankyou & goodnight,
Ellecoya's grandson

[SIKSUKR]

I hate to say it but I'm kind of with FLL on having some public boat ramp facilities on that site.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I hate to say it but I'm kind of with FLL on having some public boat ramp facilities on that site.

Its too shallow in there for a "Ramp"

[NHGuy]

Tom Mullen has mentioned in two separate posts that a “Wave Fence” would be necessary to protect the mooring field, docks and sail boats from winds from the northeast, north and northwest. Not knowing what a “Wave Fence” was, I searched the Web and found the following. A “Wave Fence”, commercially called a “Wave Brake” is a floating device that is deployed similar to a “swim line”, except that it is approximately 6-8 feet wide and 3-4 feet high (see picture). Reviews of the Wave Brake are mixed; it does reduce wave action, but at the same time it also reduces line of sight from the beach. Especially from a seated position. The manufacture also warns of danger to swimmers. The device is heavy and in rough waves could injury a swimmer. Also there are a number of “pinch points” that could cause injuries to a swimmer trying to hold on to the device.

The "Wave Brake" would be deployed from the beach (near LSP) and run out (north) approximately 150 yards, then west paralal to beach until it hit the Scenic Drive shore.

[ATTACH]4893

[tomdonahue52]

Mr Mullen is well known, wealthy, and a politically influential man...all the questions, replies, complaints, and whatever else in the forum will not stop him from getting what he wants. The only way he will be stopped is thru the state and / or courts. He will not give up on this project because of a small group of disgruntled people. It doesn't hurt to nag Mr. Mullen via the Forum but we should also be 'nagging' the local and state politicians.

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by tomdonahue52

Mr Mullen is well known, wealthy, and a politically influential man...all the questions, replies, complaints, and whatever else in the forum will not stop him from getting what he wants. The only way he will be stopped is thru the state and / or courts. He will not give up on this project because of a small group of disgruntled people. It doesn't hurt to nag Mr. Mullen via the Forum but we should also be 'nagging' the local and state politicians.

Hello Tom,

I have worked very hard all my life and I have been fortunate to have achieved some successes. The Sailing Center is an opportunity for me to give back to this part of New Hampshire and to the people who have helped me along the way. This is not a power trip or an effort to force anything down anybody's throat. Perhaps a trip to my latest complex called Owl's Nest Resort & Golf Club would give you an opportunity to see the level of care, planning and execution I put into my projects. Please call me at 603-759-2510 if you would like to schedule such a visit!

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by NHGuy

Tom Mullen has mentioned in two separate posts that a “Wave Fence” would be necessary to protect the mooring field, docks and sail boats from winds from the northeast, north and northwest. Not knowing what a “Wave Fence” was, I searched the Web and found the following. A “Wave Fence”, commercially called a “Wave Brake” is a floating device that is deployed similar to a “swim line”, except that it is approximately 6-8 feet wide and 3-4 feet high (see picture). Reviews of the Wave Brake are mixed; it does reduce wave action, but at the same time it also reduces line of sight from the beach. Especially from a seated position. The manufacture also warns of danger to swimmers. The device is heavy and in rough waves could injury a swimmer. Also there are a number of “pinch points” that could cause injuries to a swimmer trying to hold on to the device.

The "Wave Brake" would be deployed from the beach (near LSP) and run out (north) approximately 150 yards, then west paralal to beach until it hit the Scenic Drive shore.

[ATTACH]4893

NH Guy,

While this is a wave fence, it is in now way similiar to the fence we're suggesting would work at the Sailing Center. Please contact me at 603-759-2510 and I'll arrange to show you the plans so you will have a clear picture of what we are proposing.

Regards

Tom Mullen

[NHGuy]

Originally Posted by tntm_71we

NH Guy,

While this is a wave fence, it is in now way similiar to the fence we're suggesting would work at the Sailing Center. Please contact me at 603-759-2510 and I'll arrange to show you the plans so you will have a clear picture of what we are proposing.

Regards

Tom Mullen

Mr. Mullen,
I believe it would be more informative if you posted your "Wave Fence" proposal for all Forum Members to see. That way everyone will have a clear picture of what you are proposing.

Thanks in Advance
NH Guy

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by NHGuy

Mr. Mullen,
I believe it would be more informative if you posted your "Wave Fence" proposal for all Forum Members to see. That way everyone will have a clear picture of what you are proposing.

Thanks in Advance
NH Guy

NHGuy,

Sorry, I don't have our plan in a form that I can post on this site. Let me try to describe what we hope to do. Our primary adversary is the northwest wind and the swells that travel a pretty long fetch from Belknap Point and Lockes Island down to Ellacoya. Our first line of defense about 75 to 100 feet out from and pretty much parallel to the shore will be a boulder breakwater which will pretty much knock down the waves and leave the water behind that breakwater very calm. We plan two docks coming out toward the break water, one running all the way to the breakwater then turning and running parallel to and suspended from the breakwater. The second dock will run out from the shore about fifty feet where it will also turn and run parallel to the shore and the breakwater.

Both docks will be open underneath allowing for water flow back and forth along the shore. Suspended down from both docks will be boards not unlike ballisters on a staircase. The boards will be about five inches apart and they will be suspended in the water deeply enough to knock the tops off waves that come past or around the breakwater. These boards coupled with the breakwater make up what you refer to as a wave fence.

The docks being open underneath and the wave fencing under the docks allowing sand laden water to flow back and forth across the waterfront of Ellacoya and Lake Shore Park are designed to address any and all concerns that Lake Shore Residents have voiced about sand migration. Both Lake Shore Park and our Sailing Center, as well as DRED's Division of Parks and Recreation want to feel comfortable that what the LWSA is doing will not cause a deterioration of either property's beach areas. I will try to get our plans put into a PDF format so they can be sent out to all parties interested in what we propose to do in that location.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by robmac

while I believe that the sailing program is an asset to all who take advantage of it,I must admit I am a bit concerned as once you allow private concerns on public land it becomes very difficult to undue.While funds are needed from donations to keep the sailing program alive and growing I still haven't seen why a pavilion is needed. I would love to see my daughter learn to sail if she chooses I would donate for the opportunity,so I guess I'm missing the need for a new structure. If participants are either pay as you go or donating for the program is there really a need to add another burden such as building maintenance to the equation? JMHO,but I think maybe it deserves a look,and by the way if you haven't guessed I think the sailing program is a benefit to the region.

I share the concern, the "rules" are not very clear. Here is a link to a bit of the history and "rules" for use of State parks. This link in specific to pavilions, but the entire site is worth a read.

http://www.nhstateparks.org/explore/...pavilions.aspx

NH has a strong history of the use of "public lands" for various activities. The whole website is educational. Hunters, campers, hikers, fishing , ski machine etc.. That's a good thing if and only if the people that use the public lands stick to the guidelines and rules of use.

The folks at the sailing club seem to me to have made a good case for approval of the sailing center. As a next door neighbor at LSP, I am concerned that the pavilion could be misused if the rules for it's use where not carefully crafted. That part of their proposal would needs to be watched very carefully.

JMHO

[tntm_71we]

H

Originally Posted by SteveA

I share the concern, the "rules" are not very clear. Here is a link to a bit of the history and "rules" for use of State parks. This link in specific to pavilions, but the entire site is worth a read.

http://www.nhstateparks.org/explore/...pavilions.aspx

NH has a strong history of the use of "public lands" for various activities. The whole website is educational. Hunters, campers, hikers, fishing , ski machine etc.. That's a good thing if and only if the people that use the public lands stick to the guidelines and rules of use.

The folks at the sailing club seem to me to have made a good case for approval of the sailing center. As a next door neighbor at LSP, I am concerned that the pavilion could be misused if the rules for it's use where not carefully crafted. That part of their proposal would needs to be watched very carefully.

JMHO

Hello JMHO,

Thanks for being willing to listen to our proposals. We are fully prepare to discuss our plans and our operational program with LSP and to work very hard to come up with a mutually acceptable approach to operations that will satisfy all parties.

Regards,

Tom Mullen

[tntm_71we]

Originally Posted by robmac

while I believe that the sailing program is an asset to all who take advantage of it,I must admit I am abit concerned as once you allow private concerns on public land it becomes very difficult to undue.While funds are needed from donations to keep the sailing program alive and growing I still haven't seen why a pavillion is needed. I would love to see my daughter learn to sail if she chooses I would donate for the opportunity,so I guess I'm missing the need for a new structure. If participants are either pay as you go or donating for the program is there really a need to add another burden such as building maintanence to the equation? JMHO,but I think maybe it deserves a look,and by the way if you haven't guessed I think the sailing program is a benefit to the region.

Hello robmac,

The building we're planning to erect would be used in the winter months for storing all the boats and in the summer, it would be used for teaching purposes during inclement weather. We would also be able to hold meetings and social events there occasionally when it isn't being used for specific Sailing Center programs. We would hope to use it as an event pavillion for raising funds to help support the Sailing Center's activities and programs. At all times, great care would be taken to make sure the neighboring properties would not be negatively impacted by any of our programs.

Regards,

Tom Mullen