Does this woodstove need a damper?

[SailinAway]

Why or why not?

CFM made in Canada, similar to the Englander 13:
https://www.acmestoveco.com/product/...3-nc-pedestal/

[John Mercier]

The damper would be placed in the exhaust pipe.
A damper is used to control the air flow, and thus oxidation of the fuel (wood).

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Why or why not?

CFM made in Canada, similar to the Englander 13:
https://www.acmestoveco.com/product/...3-nc-pedestal/

No. You've got an air control already on the stove. The thermometer on the stove pipe or stove top will indicate when it's time to start shutting the air down.

Note that the 13 has a fairly small firebox and that regulating the air is difficult at best. Using very dry wood, however, you should be able to shut it down to get fairly long burns.

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[John Mercier]

It states in the direction that it doesn't need a damper...
There is a small ''lever'' that adjusts the air.

It is one of the little brass knobs below the glass...
The directions state that it has four settings.

[ITD]

12. A damper is not required in this installation. Remove the damper plate in the chimney or secure it in the OPEN position.

From here: https://www.acmestoveco.com/wp-conte...od-Stove-2.pdf

[Slickcraft]

Agree, no damper. We have small older model Englander at camp on Welch, don't know the model #. The small size allowed for install in the fireplace. We use it just for early spring and late fall. It takes a while to get up to secondary burn mode but then works well. It will maintain a hot secondary lazy burn mode with the air shut almost off. The fire box is too small to hold a fire overnight.

[John Mercier]

It uses a dedicated exterior air source option rather than ambient leak.

The directions to the stove show an air inlet that should be plumbed to the outside for the combustion air source to achieve maximum efficiency.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

Agree, no damper. We have small older model Englander at camp on Welch, don't know the model #. The small size allowed for install in the fireplace. We use it just for early spring and late fall. It takes a while to get up to secondary burn mode but then works well. It will maintain a hot secondary lazy burn mode with the air shut almost off. The fire box is too small to hold a fire overnight.

If you don't already have one, you might consider a block-off plate covered with Roxul to retain a lot/most of the heat. You might also consider a fan to move the hot air out rather than up. Depending on the situation, it may actually be too much heat, though.

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[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

If you don't already have one, you might consider a block-off plate covered with Roxul to retain a lot/most of the heat. You might also consider a fan to move the hot air out rather than up. Depending on the situation, it may actually be too much heat, though.

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There is a 6" stainless steel liner and a flat stainless closure plate with 6" collar at the top of the tile flue. That is all sealed well. Also a chimney cap with mesh sides. There is essentially no upward air flow outside of the 6" liner. Overall a bit more efficient than the original fireplace.

[SailinAway]

Thanks very much for this helpful information! I especially appreciate the confirmation that this is a SMALL stove that can't burn all night. I've been burning cherry seasoned one year and it will only burn in a hot fire mixed with maple. The maple that was on the ground for two years is burning well. Also, my experiment with using a smaller amount of kindling wasn't that successful. This stove seems to need a good amount of kindling to get going.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Thanks very much for this helpful information! I especially appreciate the confirmation that this is a SMALL stove that can't burn all night. I've been burning cherry seasoned one year and it will only burn in a hot fire mixed with maple. The maple that was on the ground for two years is burning well. Also, my experiment with using a smaller amount of kindling wasn't that successful. This stove seems to need a good amount of kindling to get going.

Though the stove won't get usable heat overnight, it definitely should go long enough to have coals in the AM. Remember to bank the wood and close the air down.

You might wish to read the hearth.com forums—there are a lot of people, like myself, who have one of those stoves and can give good advice.

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[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Though the stove won't get usable heat overnight, it definitely should go long enough to have coals in the AM. Remember to bank the wood and close the air down.

You might wish to read the hearth.com forums—there are a lot of people, like myself, who have one of those stoves and can give good advice.

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Our Englander is smaller than the OP's. Yes, if it is already in the secondary burn mode then loaded with oak and the airflow set to low, there will be coals in the AM. A bit of kindling and dry pine and soon a good fire again.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Thanks very much for this helpful information! I especially appreciate the confirmation that this is a SMALL stove that can't burn all night. I've been burning cherry seasoned one year and it will only burn in a hot fire mixed with maple. The maple that was on the ground for two years is burning well. Also, my experiment with using a smaller amount of kindling wasn't that successful. This stove seems to need a good amount of kindling to get going.

I leave the door cracked open a bit to give more air during the startup phase. Experiment a bit but only do this while you are at hand. Dry pine, including lumber scraps, is good in this phase. Actually there is nothing wrong with pine for a hot all evening fire. Then switch to hardwood.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

I leave the door cracked open a bit to give more air during the startup phase. Experiment a bit but only do this while you are at hand. Dry pine, including lumber scraps, is good in this phase. Actually there is nothing wrong with pine for a hot all evening fire. Then switch to hardwood.

I do the same. Crack the door to get it started. Also, must say the best fuel source I have used over the years is a used pizza box! Would turn the stove door on my old Vermont Castings cherry red.


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[WinnisquamZ]

is that type of morning. We have a fresh air supply that runs down from the attic under the firebox. Helps with the draft


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Attachment 17891

is that type of morning. We have a fresh air supply that runs down from the attic under the firebox. Helps with the draft


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That's a pretty setup. Are those regular heater vents or somehow plumbed to the insert? If not the insert, how loud are the fans to get the insert heat out?

We went with a standalone hearth unit so it would be silent and not require electricity, but your setup looks pretty awesome.

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[WinnisquamZ]

Thanks, it’s a Queen Air insert build in 1987. Both are fan driven air intakes that supply outlets in the other parts of the house. Are they loud? You can hear them so we use them sparingly. It’s the last thing standing as we remolded the space last winter


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[SailinAway]

To clarify, the damper on my stove controls air coming into the firebox. A damper on the stove pipe controls the amount of heat exiting the stove. Correct? So why don't I need a damper on the stove pipe? Wouldn't it control wood consumption better and prevent heat from escaping up the pipe?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

To clarify, the damper on my stove controls air coming into the firebox. A damper on the stove pipe controls the amount of heat exiting the stove. Correct? So why don't I need a damper on the stove pipe? Wouldn't it control wood consumption better and prevent heat from escaping up the pipe?

1. No more air can escape up the chimney than enters the stove.

2. The flue damper has zero effect on the combustion process in the firebox, which is the whole point of air control. If too much heat is escaping up the flue it's because the user is not maximizing the secondary burn system of the stove.

3. Flue dampers were designed for open fireplaces, where there was just a simple fire and the damper would (hope to) retain as much heat as possible without getting too smoky. Remember that fireplaces are net loss heaters and homes that were designed to use fireplaces exclusively had severe limits to interior temperatures. When looking at early American homes, you'll see that people shared beds and rooms, often sleeping in the attic where the chimney passes through as that was the warmest part of the home. There's a reason Ebenezer Scrooge wears so many robes and a hat in a bed surrounded by heavy curtains.


The point in all this is that new(er) wood stoves are designed to maximize the burning process and anything outside the stove itself is negligible other than just letting the smoke—which, if the stove is working properly, shouldn't even exist—escape.

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[John Mercier]

Damper flue would be a different type of stove.

The one you pictured has an option to use outside air for combustion.
Generally a flexible metal tube that runs from the inlet through a wall outside.

It is a better design than stoves that pull heated air from the room for combustion.

So it works by dampening at that inlet through the small brass lever.

[WinnisquamZ]

A tight house without fresh air combustion option would make controlling a firebox burn difficult


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[John Mercier]

No house is that tight.
Hundreds of cubic feet of air, and negative pressure would result in further draw the same way that heating air creates positive pressure and more leakage.

[WinnisquamZ]

Wrong “Makeup air” is a requirement in many remodels and new construction projects. I know first hand. New windows, and new doors and spray form insulation will tighten a living space. Just the air draw from a kitchen or bath fan will require a makeup air vent. A proper burning wood stove requires air to burn. Fact. Limit the air and you will have difficulty maintaining a fire


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[John Mercier]

A standard air exchange will cover that for a woodstove...

We use make up air on homes that violate the standard air exchange rate.

Homes that tight... we don't use solid fuel sourcing.

[thinkxingu]

Outside Air Kits (OAK) are often used in tight homes with long chimneys or draft issues.

My basement stove would benefit from an OAK, but I just open a window when it's not cold enough to quickly pull a strong draft. When the indoor/outdoor temp differential is more than ~30°, it's not a problem.

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[John Mercier]

The OAK is really about increasing the efficiency.

The DP of a window or door is not limitless... it really doesn't matter who or how they are installed... once the DP is struck... they will leak.

The OAK just keeps from using the already heated air to feed the combustion process and run up the flue. That was a major downer for open fireplaces.

Basically the fireplace would act like an air pump moving heated air outside as fast as possible... and using make up air from leaks in the shell as they reached their DP.