Huge Commercial Project in West Alton

[DaisyFlower]

You/your family may not use the school system, but it (school system) is one of the biggest factors in determining real estate value(s). You should ALWAYS support the school system.

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

You make good points but the vast majority of the budgets are for the schools and that is something that older people do not use.

I am a senior and pay over $20,000 per year in real estate taxes. Other than snow plowing I use very little of the town services. I have owned the current home for over 20 years have never needed the police or fire department, but it is nice to know they are there.

I spend winters in Florida so there is not much chance I will need those services, or any town services, for 6 months of the year. In my opinion the town is making a profit on me.

[dickiej]

If you have kids, your kids were educated by the contributions (real estate taxes) of others most likely. Public education is a social contract….like social security. It’s part of living in a cooperative society. Look closely at Scandinavian countries…they are the worlds happiest places ( even with long, cold winters) because they seriously take care of each other with basic standards of living.

[John Mercier]

Actually, the buyers being discussed are not looking at either the school system or the property tax rates in their search for property.

Alton and Gilford use two different school systems to my knowledge and have two very different tax rates.

The only difference that I have noted in this group is that they are coming by air rather than highway; or at least need easy access to the airport for business trips. I am guessing the drive from Manchester on Friday evenings must be brutal.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The only difference that I have noted in this group is that they are coming by air rather than highway; or at least need easy access to the airport for business trips. I am guessing the drive from Manchester on Friday evenings must be brutal.

If they're flying commercial I can see where driving up from Manchester might be a chore. However, if they have enough money they can probably use Net Jets and fly directly into Laconia if they're coming from some distance. If they live in the Boston area then a helicopter might make sense because then they can fly directly to the property and get there in less than an hour.

It all depends upon time - how much they're willing use to get there - and money - how much they're willing to spend to get there.

[John Mercier]

They aren't considering these second homes.

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

They aren't considering these second homes.

I don't think we can make that assumption. Yes, some will be primary residences but some will be second...or third...or fourth homes. Goodness knows we see that on Governor's Island.

[John Mercier]

Does Governor's Island even have ten plus acre lots?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Does Governor's Island even have ten plus acre lots?

Sort of. The GIC owns a 47 acre parcel on Summit Ave that is in current use. I guess there could be other inland parcels.

[John Mercier]

But it isn't for sale and buildable is it?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

But it isn't for sale and buildable is it?

There are a number of houses on Summit Ave and around Governor's that are not shorefront. That parcel certainly isn't wetlands. Being owned by all the association members, it probably isn't for sale today. Summit Ave goes straight from the bridge up, up intro the middle of the island. The Gilford tax assessment database lists several properties on Summit Ave.

[John Mercier]

If they go up for sale...
I could probably find them a buyer.
As long as they don't carry too many covenants.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

But it isn't for sale and buildable is it?

Its most likely deeded common land for the association.

[TiltonBB]

The four variances are on the agenda for the June 6 ZBA meeting; should the developer achieve those variances, she will then submit her site plan for review by the Planning Board.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ec697c2c5.html

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The four variances are on the agenda for the June 6 ZBA meeting; should the developer achieve those variances, she will then submit her site plan for review by the Planning Board.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ec697c2c5.html

This looks like a public relations, damage control puff piece by the Daily Sun, written for the benefit of the owner and developer. They failed to mention that there is an application for a Special Exception for the Commercial Event Facility, which is much different and has a higher approval threshold than just a simple variance. Why didn't the reporter take the time to visit the surrounding neighborhoods of Alton and Gilford to get input from abutters, taxpayers and others that will be negatively impacted by this development?

Time to write letters to the editor of the Daily Sun.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

The four variances are on the agenda for the June 6 ZBA meeting; should the developer achieve those variances, she will then submit her site plan for review by the Planning Board.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...ec697c2c5.html

Headquartered in Boston, Toast Inc (NASDAQ symbol TOST) was founded in 2011 and is capitalized at $14B+. NASADAQ is down a little today, but TOST was up 11.4% when I looked a few minutes ago.. Toast has a variety of software products for restaurant and hospitality management, so it appears they have expertise and funding to do a "fun" project in Alton. I would rather they rebuild Kimball's Castle than develop a rural zoned mountain top in Alton. Or buy the Laconia State School.

[John Mercier]

The problem with LSS, is that the State wants the full boat to cover the risks associated with the mix of historical and environmental negatives on the property. They also want some format of workforce housing in the proposal (not that easy to do with what Toast wants to do) and have encumbered the property with a permanent public access trail even beyond the road to the State park.

The property being proposed hasn't got all those issue with it.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

This looks like a public relations, damage control puff piece by the Daily Sun, written for the benefit of the owner and developer. They failed to mention that there is an application for a Special Exception for the Commercial Event Facility, which is much different and has a higher approval threshold than just a simple variance. Why didn't the reporter take the time to visit the surrounding neighborhoods of Alton and Gilford to get input from abutters, taxpayers and others that will be negatively impacted by this development?

Time to write letters to the editor of the Daily Sun.

The Sun made no mention of the active opposition. The Facebook group that was created to counter this development now has over 1,000 members.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/700026178785409

Alan

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The problem with LSS, is that the State wants the full boat to cover the risks associated with the mix of historical and environmental negatives on the property. They also want some format of workforce housing in the proposal (not that easy to do with what Toast wants to do) and have encumbered the property with a permanent public access trail even beyond the road to the State park.

The property being proposed hasn't got all those issue with it.

But it does have a lot of fired-up abutters, neighbors and taxpayers in Alton and Gilford that are not going to roll over and play dead.

[Slickcraft]

Today I sent an email to Adam Drapcho who wrote the article in today's sun. He was not aware of the opposition. Adam would like to hear from any "opposition leader" and he would consider a follow up article. Adam is a balanced reporter and he was not aware of the opposition. So thoughtful replies are suggested.

His email: ad@laconiadailysun.com

Alan

[John Mercier]

I'm quite certain, but moving from one to the other doesn't really make sense.

And Laconia is going to need to find some land to satisfy HB1361

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I'm quite certain, but moving from one to the other doesn't really make sense.

And Laconia is going to need to find some land to satisfy HB1361

What am I missing? How is this discussion about rural zoning vs. commercial zoning on a mountain top related to developing trailer parks in Laconia? Plenty of places in Belmont.

[John Mercier]

Each municipality must now have some format of access.
Laconia has limited properties that could be considered ''reasonable and realistic'', and has been one of the most vocal municipalities in the Lakes Region on ''workforce housing''.

Since the Mutual Aid doesn't want to move... rezoning for that use would suffice for a while for Laconia.

Since Belmont has a lot of areas that could be, and are, available to manufactured housing or expansion... really not a lot that we have to do.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I'm quite certain, but moving from one to the other doesn't really make sense.

And Laconia is going to need to find some land to satisfy HB1361

And Gilford. More and more large landowners are deeding their land to the Belknap Conservatory.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Headquartered in Boston, Toast Inc (NASDAQ symbol TOST) was founded in 2011 and is capitalized at $14B+. NASADAQ is down a little today, but TOST was up 11.4% when I looked a few minutes ago.. Toast has a variety of software products for restaurant and hospitality management, so it appears they have expertise and funding to do a "fun" project in Alton. I would rather they rebuild Kimball's Castle than develop a rural zoned mountain top in Alton. Or buy the Laconia State School.

Toast is a terrific company, but it is a software company. They write apps that you might use to order delivery or to pay your bill on one of those electronic hand-helds at a restaurant. As a company, they know nothing about running a hospitality business.

[Descant]

Perhaps I misread the info on products. I understand some Toast products also do "instant inventory control" among other things. Managing finances in a restaurant/hospitality business seems to be a common weakness. Too many think you have to be a good cook, not a good manger, which is why so many restaurants fail. Of course, being under capitalized is an issue too.
In any event, there is some skilled management and some money in the mix here.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Perhaps I misread the info on products. I understand some Toast products also do "instant inventory control" among other things. Managing finances in a restaurant/hospitality business seems to be a common weakness. Too many think you have to be a good cook, not a good manger, which is why so many restaurants fail. Of course, being under capitalized is an issue too.
In any event, there is some skilled management and some money in the mix here.

Agreed that both are essential. Let's hope they do not get a chance to test themselves here

[John Mercier]

This doesn't in what I have read equate to a restaurant or hotel.
It has an odd feeling like trying to turn an estate into an STR.

Even the glamping operation in the Weirs seems to be discussing something about wedding events.

[retired]

After reading the article in the Sun about the new owners and their plans, I come away with some skepticism. She was a nurse and now that she and her husband have struck it rich, she is now a self proclaimed "developer" looking for a project. She talks about the charm of the Lakes Region and NH. That charm is related to family owned and operated businesses dotting the state. There is no charm in a Walmart or Target. The article didn't say that they are planning to both operate the site and/or live there. It has the feel that they want to build it as a money making scheme and possibly sell it after it is done. Just another out of stater throwing their money around. Maybe it will go the way of Surfcoaster.

[John Mercier]

I don't think sell it.
It seems more like they want a compound that they can lease out.

Its like purchasing a yacht or a jet and then commercializing it as part of a rental fleet.

STR are the same concept. People purchase a vacation home and then rent it out to pay for the property and ongoing costs with the intent to get their week or two free.

It is a different concept than the historical vacation cottage/camp that is shutdown and ''winterized'' while the owners are away.

[sky's]

Originally Posted by retired

After reading the article in the Sun about the new owners and their plans, I come away with some skepticism. She was a nurse and now that she and her husband have struck it rich, she is now a self proclaimed "developer" looking for a project. She talks about the charm of the Lakes Region and NH. That charm is related to family owned and operated businesses dotting the state. There is no charm in a Walmart or Target. The article didn't say that they are planning to both operate the site and/or live there. It has the feel that they want to build it as a money making scheme and possibly sell it after it is done. Just another out of stater throwing their money around. Maybe it will go the way of Surfcoaster.

i couldnt agree more on your reply. my wife just recently moved to sandwhich on cold river and cant be more thankful that we did this. its beautiful out here. Moultonborough use to be like this 20 years ago still a great town but listening to the birds every morning is priceless.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by sky's

i couldnt agree more on your reply. my wife just recently moved to sandwhich on cold river and cant be more thankful that we did this. its beautiful out here. Moultonborough use to be like this 20 years ago still a great town but listening to the birds every morning is priceless.

I agree - I just moved to Sandwich from M'boro as well, primarily to get away from development. I am sure in 30-35 years it will come to Sandwich also, but I'll be in my 'final' piece of real estate by then...

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't think sell it.
It seems more like they want a compound that they can lease out.

Its like purchasing a yacht or a jet and then commercializing it as part of a rental fleet.

STR are the same concept. People purchase a vacation home and then rent it out to pay for the property and ongoing costs with the intent to get their week or two free.

It is a different concept than the historical vacation cottage/camp that is shutdown and ''winterized'' while the owners are away.

Except that if the purchaser is rich enough to buy this, they do not need the cash from the renters. This is very different than the working man who has dreamed of a lake house and stayed up late in his kitchen devising the perfect formula to swing it. So I'm with the folks looking for an ulterior motive

[TomC]

I saw that this development is going to be $50-$60M. Lets make the math easy and say its $52M. Any decent private wealth manager should get an annual return of 10% for his/her client (and maybe more). So the opportunity cost for this 'project' is $5.2M a year in investment earnings... Who really believes this 'wedding venue" is able to bill out $100,000 per week minimum every single week of the year? It doesn't add up...

[John Mercier]

Because it is a private compound that they want to rent out when they are not using it. The focus in not the return on investment from a dollar value.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Except that if the purchaser is rich enough to buy this, they do not need the cash from the renters. This is very different than the working man who has dreamed of a lake house and stayed up late in his kitchen devising the perfect formula to swing it. So I'm with the folks looking for an ulterior motive

Lots of people rich enough to buy yachts, but they still put them in the rental fleet.
Lots of people rich enough to buy private jets, but they still put them in the rental fleet.

It has tax advantages and lowers the capital opportunity costs.

Example: The capital opportunity cost could be as much as $5.2 million per year.

So building and only living there part time... that is $5.2 million gone, property tax and upkeep gone, and due to income tax policy... they probably could not deduct the full amounts for that either... so more loss.

Leasing it: some recovery of the $5.2 million, and full deductibility of the property taxes and upkeep as a commercial operation.

The dollar amounts are different, but the concept not.
Does it really matter that someone not born here decides to move or build here and spend $100,000 or $100,000,000? Not to us born here.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TomC

I saw that this development is going to be $50-$60M. Lets make the math easy and say its $52M. Any decent private wealth manager should get an annual return of 10% for his/her client (and maybe more). So the opportunity cost for this 'project' is $5.2M a year in investment earnings... Who really believes this 'wedding venue" is able to bill out $100,000 per week minimum every single week of the year? It doesn't add up...

My understanding is that weddings at Church Landing often run $30-$50K. The first year they opened, my daughter got married there, (prices were lower then) they were doing five weddings every weekend. More on holiday weekends. As people get married at older ages now, lavish, destination weddings are common. When you do a destination wedding, the "destination" gets all the $$, photography, rooms, cake, flowers, bar, band, etc. $100K / week doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.

That being said, I hope the ZBA denies the variance. Wasn't it Alton that wouldn't let Bob Bahre (sp?) show off his car collection as a commercial operation in a residential zone?