Island Building Costs

Lake Fan · 10-04-2023, 08:21 PM

Question for the resident forum members with construction knowledge.

What would be a ballpark price for a 2 bedroom, one bath,900 square foot, one story cottage with a loft on an island lot?

Nothing fancy, this would be a camp (does anyone build those anymore?). Contractor grade everything.

Footings are in, lot is level with easy access. Realizing the variables are many, what would be a reasonable estimate for the house only, excluding site work, septic, etc.?

Asking for a friend. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

John Mercier · 10-04-2023, 08:37 PM

If it has a bathroom and/or kitchen... then it will need a CoH and permitting will require that it be built to code.

A simple materials list can be quoted, but transport and labor costs become the variables.

codeman671 · 10-05-2023, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

Question for the resident forum members with construction knowledge.

What would be a ballpark price for a 2 bedroom, one bath,900 square foot, one story cottage with a loft on an island lot?

Nothing fancy, this would be a camp (does anyone build those anymore?). Contractor grade everything.

Footings are in, lot is level with easy access. Realizing the variables are many, what would be a reasonable estimate for the house only, excluding site work, septic, etc.?

Asking for a friend. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Guessing easily $350+ per sqft based on my recent building experiences on island.

LIforrelaxin · 10-05-2023, 10:05 AM

Something to through into consideration, is the level of finish your friend would require. While a certain level of work must be done to get the occupancy permit, if you friend can live without finishing touches like trim around the window, walls painted, etc that can help bring the cost down.

Unfortunately some people don't want to have to do that finish work themselves, which adds cost to the project..

SAB1 · 10-05-2023, 11:33 AM

It may be challenge to find some one to build that. Not much profit in a tiny camp like that and builders are scheduled pretty far out.

tummyman · 10-05-2023, 11:38 AM

Might be better to consider a prefab from LaVallee or elsewhere and then just get someone to finish it.

John Mercier · 10-05-2023, 11:45 AM

They could just ''California case'' with a wood stool if need be.
It is usually a lot of other decisions that slowly add up.

Even the shape has an effect.

But the biggest decision will be the CI (continuous insulation) requirement.

A garage or shed sometimes used as a bunkhouse, but technically listed as a garage or shed, will not have that requirement. But they have no kitchen or bath in them. Even adding both water and electricity tends to raise an eyebrow.

The CI can be met several ways... but each has positive/negative aspects.

LIforrelaxin · 10-05-2023, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAB1

It may be challenge to find some one to build that. Not much profit in a tiny camp like that and builders are scheduled pretty far out.

With the behavior I have seen out of contractors working in my area of the lake, the problem is work ethic related.... As they built the house right next door, they would come in and start working at 8, and then leave at lunch time and never come back.... Takes for ever to get a house framed when you work 3 or 4 hours at a time. One can argue that it is because they had other job sites to go work at, but then to me that is poor management....

With that said, there is plenty of profit in a tiny camp, just as much as there would be in a big estate... But to get that profit, you have to go and get the job done... Not drag your feet..... I have worked with a few contractors getting things done around my camp... none of them where big time companies, they where word of mouth recommendations... In all cases we schedule appropriately, made sure all material was on site, so that they could come and get the work done.... In all cases the profits where good, because they didn't have to start and stop because of supply issues.....

SAB1 · 10-05-2023, 12:21 PM

Seriously an 800 sq ft seasonal camp is going give you profit like a 4000 Sq ft house on the mainland? Not

ApS · 10-05-2023, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAB1

It may be challenge to find some one to build that. Not much profit in a tiny camp like that and builders are scheduled pretty far out.

Modulars could barged out, merged (if two or more).

Descant · 10-05-2023, 02:53 PM

On a REAL island, the crew can't leave at lunchtime because somebody else controls the boat.

We're paying just under $190 sf for a 400 sf bunkhouse. No bath, no kitchen, no interior finish of any kind. No closets, no interior finish, no insulation. More like a garage with patio doors. Probably $8000 extra in tree removal due to proximity of power lines and barging out an excavator to do site work and moving really big trees. Maybe $2500 for design work/drawings needed for permits and application fees to town and state. We used existing site plans on file with the town, drawn when we installed septic ~40-50 years ago.

codeman671 · 10-05-2023, 03:10 PM

Just finishing my shed rebuild after the fire. We are building a 12x20, doors front and rear but at a pretty high quality build level. Prefinished cedar shakes to match the house ($820/square just in shakes), metal roof and trim, woodshed down one side and overhang for storage down the other. Walkways around it connecting it back to the main structure. Probably going to be in the $60-70k range, but I really haven't been tracking it. I buy the materials and pay the labor so unless I add up every receipt on my account I don't really know.

Our bunk house a few years ago was a very high end build to match the finish level of the house. 16x16, Marvin windows, sub panel/wired, all finished inside with pine and LVP flooring, deck on the front, same siding and windows as above. Probably $75k+ on this all in.

My crew are great and could build it for you. Not sure if they would do time and materials like we did or quote a flat price. That's between you to work out if you want to chat with them.

WinnisquamZ · 10-05-2023, 05:46 PM

Yup. Thinking between 300 to 400k.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

John Mercier · 10-05-2023, 07:42 PM

A lot depends on whether they build it themselves or have someone build it for them.

Traditional camps/cottages were built by the owner, family, and friends.
They used what was the least expensive materials, that we now have come to consider ''high-end'' but at that time were considered ''below grade''.

Cedar shakes on the oldest buildings were replaced on the ''money side'' by clapboards; clapboards at the time being more expensive and considered an upgrade to the lowly cedar shakes.

The trend in black windows dates back to when owners could not afford large pane windows... they had to have muntins (what we call grilles) to hold the smaller panes of glass. The owner had to refinish the sashes every couple of years to keep them from rotting... so since they had to paint them, instead of white that attracted the eye... they painted them black to see past them and create the illusion of a large single pane of glass that they could not afford. When they got to the point that they could afford a sash with a single pane, that is when you see the craftsmans-style window with the 6 over one detail. The remove bottom sash would be reworked into a window for the front door... as no one wanted to waste it.

It isn't particularly hard to build a shed on pier foundation with 2x4 stud walls, 3/4 ADV flooring, 7/16 Smartpanel siding, and either white or tan premium high-efficiency vinyl windows that will more than do the job while keeping the older traditions of building alive. It is the labor, and meeting the new codes.

The walls would need to be double offset, using 2x3 to hang the rock. And then other choices would need to be made to keep the cost down, the same way as it was done decades ago.

Lake Fan · 10-06-2023, 05:32 AM

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, lots of good info here.

The Real BigGuy · 10-06-2023, 10:01 AM

John makes a lot of good points. 25 yrs ago we might not think of insulating a summer cottage. Now, you have to. Things we might have done when we “built our own” no longer meet the code. This really adds to the cost. The other thing that people miss is the cost of getting labor, materials, and equipment out to the island & back. Barge service might run 1500 per day. Then plan on paying +/- 150 a day to get labor out there and back. Also, expect a shorter workday. Laborers are usually paid from mainland dock to mainland dock. Depending on travel time to the island this might mean 8:30 to 3:30 workday including lunch break & other breaks. I had a recent insurance claim that doubled due to the added island costs.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

John Mercier · 10-06-2023, 11:06 AM

Actually why it is hard to quote.
The Zip System was designed to lower labor costs. Not my favorite for various reasons, but does lower the labor costs. With the CI, some are going to what we call RZip... which is a rigid insulated panel like a SIP panel without the drywall attached to the inside... it cost more in material, but saves on labor.

So a lot of keeping prices down is balancing labor and material costs through the best building technique to meet the code.

Island is tough, because the weight and size of the material needs to be taken into consideration. An owner travelling back and forth on a regular basis can add a few items each time... but size and weight need to be accounted for.

Descant · 10-06-2023, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Actually why it is hard to quote.

Island is tough, because the weight and size of the material needs to be taken into consideration. An owner travelling back and forth on a regular basis can add a few items each time... but size and weight need to be accounted for.

Agreed. As you cruise around take a look at how many campos are more than a flight of stairs above the dock level. That's all hand carry, no place for a forklift to operate. And maybe the build site isn't close to where the barge can unload. Each site is unique, unlike a subdivision or even a bridged island.

Lake Fan · 10-06-2023, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

John makes a lot of good points. 25 yrs ago we might not think of insulating a summer cottage. Now, you have to. Things we might have done when we “built our own” no longer meet the code. This really adds to the cost. The other thing that people miss is the cost of getting labor, materials, and equipment out to the island & back. Barge service might run 1500 per day. Then plan on paying +/- 150 a day to get labor out there and back. Also, expect a shorter workday. Laborers are usually paid from mainland dock to mainland dock. Depending on travel time to the island this might mean 8:30 to 3:30 workday including lunch break & other breaks. I had a recent insurance claim that doubled due to the added island costs.

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

But are we better off because "we have to"? There are so many regulations that are ostensibly "for our own good" that make everything more expensive and complicated. Many of those uninsulated, not to code, built by dad and grandad camps have been cherished heirlooms in families for generations.

I've seen some recent postings on other sites of people looking for a rustic camp to preserve. I bet in 25 years, people will be tearing down those ubiquitous McMansions on the lake to build a nice little A-frame to relax in.

John Mercier · 10-06-2023, 05:24 PM

You can still build them that way... but they have to stay like our original camps/cottages.

We still sell compost toilets for those that wish to forgo the cost of a septic system, kerosene lamps and hand pumped wellheads for those that want to forgo electricity, small wood stoves with all the accessories for fall/winter meal prep, and small grills with green one pound propane cylinders for summer meal prep.

Without water and electricity, you basically have a garage/shed that you can legally stay in for roughly six months steady or intermittently throughout the year.

You can even use the original clapboard (we now call it double clap so that newbies don't get it confused with bevel siding) or novelty siding (originally called dutch lap). We even have shiplap log siding and brushed (rough) shiplap to make a log look or board & batten. 1x12 form board will also work for B&B, but needs to be air dried long enough not to split and hold a stain.

But all that siding is more expensive than a smartpanel for coverage.

We still have red pine flooring (prior to WWII) and SYP (after WWII)... but it can be more expensive than just inexpensive LVP or a stain-seal application over 3/4 ADV.

10-04-2023, 08:21 PM	#1
Lake Fan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Whortleberry Island Posts: 107 Thanks: 15 Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts	Island Building Costs Question for the resident forum members with construction knowledge. What would be a ballpark price for a 2 bedroom, one bath,900 square foot, one story cottage with a loft on an island lot? Nothing fancy, this would be a camp (does anyone build those anymore?). Contractor grade everything. Footings are in, lot is level with easy access. Realizing the variables are many, what would be a reasonable estimate for the house only, excluding site work, septic, etc.? Asking for a friend. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

10-05-2023, 10:05 AM	#4
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,827 Thanks: 1,017 Thanked 881 Times in 515 Posts	Something to through into consideration, is the level of finish your friend would require. While a certain level of work must be done to get the occupancy permit, if you friend can live without finishing touches like trim around the window, walls painted, etc that can help bring the cost down. Unfortunately some people don't want to have to do that finish work themselves, which adds cost to the project.. __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

10-04-2023, 08:37 PM	#2
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 2,983 Thanks: 2 Thanked 529 Times in 435 Posts	If it has a bathroom and/or kitchen... then it will need a CoH and permitting will require that it be built to code. A simple materials list can be quoted, but transport and labor costs become the variables.

10-05-2023, 11:33 AM	#5
SAB1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Tuftonboro Posts: 1,165 Thanks: 182 Thanked 297 Times in 220 Posts	It may be challenge to find some one to build that. Not much profit in a tiny camp like that and builders are scheduled pretty far out.

10-05-2023, 11:38 AM	#6
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 780 Thanks: 233 Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts	Might be better to consider a prefab from LaVallee or elsewhere and then just get someone to finish it.

10-05-2023, 11:45 AM	#7
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 2,983 Thanks: 2 Thanked 529 Times in 435 Posts	They could just ''California case'' with a wood stool if need be. It is usually a lot of other decisions that slowly add up. Even the shape has an effect. But the biggest decision will be the CI (continuous insulation) requirement. A garage or shed sometimes used as a bunkhouse, but technically listed as a garage or shed, will not have that requirement. But they have no kitchen or bath in them. Even adding both water and electricity tends to raise an eyebrow. The CI can be met several ways... but each has positive/negative aspects.

The Following User Says Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
winterharbor59 (10-07-2023)

10-05-2023, 12:21 PM	#9
SAB1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Tuftonboro Posts: 1,165 Thanks: 182 Thanked 297 Times in 220 Posts	Seriously an 800 sq ft seasonal camp is going give you profit like a 4000 Sq ft house on the mainland? Not

10-05-2023, 02:53 PM	#11
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,036 Thanks: 1,212 Thanked 1,518 Times in 985 Posts	On a REAL island, the crew can't leave at lunchtime because somebody else controls the boat. We're paying just under $190 sf for a 400 sf bunkhouse. No bath, no kitchen, no interior finish of any kind. No closets, no interior finish, no insulation. More like a garage with patio doors. Probably $8000 extra in tree removal due to proximity of power lines and barging out an excavator to do site work and moving really big trees. Maybe $2500 for design work/drawings needed for permits and application fees to town and state. We used existing site plans on file with the town, drawn when we installed septic ~40-50 years ago.

The Following User Says Thank You to Descant For This Useful Post:
Diana (10-06-2023)

10-05-2023, 03:10 PM	#12
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,360 Thanks: 210 Thanked 764 Times in 448 Posts	Just finishing my shed rebuild after the fire. We are building a 12x20, doors front and rear but at a pretty high quality build level. Prefinished cedar shakes to match the house ($820/square just in shakes), metal roof and trim, woodshed down one side and overhang for storage down the other. Walkways around it connecting it back to the main structure. Probably going to be in the $60-70k range, but I really haven't been tracking it. I buy the materials and pay the labor so unless I add up every receipt on my account I don't really know. Our bunk house a few years ago was a very high end build to match the finish level of the house. 16x16, Marvin windows, sub panel/wired, all finished inside with pine and LVP flooring, deck on the front, same siding and windows as above. Probably $75k+ on this all in. My crew are great and could build it for you. Not sure if they would do time and materials like we did or quote a flat price. That's between you to work out if you want to chat with them.

10-05-2023, 05:46 PM	#13
WinnisquamZ Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,896 Thanks: 193 Thanked 595 Times in 400 Posts	Yup. Thinking between 300 to 400k. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

10-05-2023, 07:42 PM	#14
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 2,983 Thanks: 2 Thanked 529 Times in 435 Posts	A lot depends on whether they build it themselves or have someone build it for them. Traditional camps/cottages were built by the owner, family, and friends. They used what was the least expensive materials, that we now have come to consider ''high-end'' but at that time were considered ''below grade''. Cedar shakes on the oldest buildings were replaced on the ''money side'' by clapboards; clapboards at the time being more expensive and considered an upgrade to the lowly cedar shakes. The trend in black windows dates back to when owners could not afford large pane windows... they had to have muntins (what we call grilles) to hold the smaller panes of glass. The owner had to refinish the sashes every couple of years to keep them from rotting... so since they had to paint them, instead of white that attracted the eye... they painted them black to see past them and create the illusion of a large single pane of glass that they could not afford. When they got to the point that they could afford a sash with a single pane, that is when you see the craftsmans-style window with the 6 over one detail. The remove bottom sash would be reworked into a window for the front door... as no one wanted to waste it. It isn't particularly hard to build a shed on pier foundation with 2x4 stud walls, 3/4 ADV flooring, 7/16 Smartpanel siding, and either white or tan premium high-efficiency vinyl windows that will more than do the job while keeping the older traditions of building alive. It is the labor, and meeting the new codes. The walls would need to be double offset, using 2x3 to hang the rock. And then other choices would need to be made to keep the cost down, the same way as it was done decades ago.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to John Mercier For This Useful Post:
ApS (10-06-2023), secondcurve (10-09-2023)

10-06-2023, 05:32 AM	#15
Lake Fan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Whortleberry Island Posts: 107 Thanks: 15 Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts	Thanks for all the thoughtful replies, lots of good info here.

10-06-2023, 10:01 AM	#16
The Real BigGuy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,111 Thanks: 109 Thanked 410 Times in 244 Posts	John makes a lot of good points. 25 yrs ago we might not think of insulating a summer cottage. Now, you have to. Things we might have done when we “built our own” no longer meet the code. This really adds to the cost. The other thing that people miss is the cost of getting labor, materials, and equipment out to the island & back. Barge service might run 1500 per day. Then plan on paying +/- 150 a day to get labor out there and back. Also, expect a shorter workday. Laborers are usually paid from mainland dock to mainland dock. Depending on travel time to the island this might mean 8:30 to 3:30 workday including lunch break & other breaks. I had a recent insurance claim that doubled due to the added island costs. Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

10-06-2023, 11:06 AM	#17
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 2,983 Thanks: 2 Thanked 529 Times in 435 Posts	Actually why it is hard to quote. The Zip System was designed to lower labor costs. Not my favorite for various reasons, but does lower the labor costs. With the CI, some are going to what we call RZip... which is a rigid insulated panel like a SIP panel without the drywall attached to the inside... it cost more in material, but saves on labor. So a lot of keeping prices down is balancing labor and material costs through the best building technique to meet the code. Island is tough, because the weight and size of the material needs to be taken into consideration. An owner travelling back and forth on a regular basis can add a few items each time... but size and weight need to be accounted for.

10-06-2023, 05:24 PM	#20
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 2,983 Thanks: 2 Thanked 529 Times in 435 Posts	You can still build them that way... but they have to stay like our original camps/cottages. We still sell compost toilets for those that wish to forgo the cost of a septic system, kerosene lamps and hand pumped wellheads for those that want to forgo electricity, small wood stoves with all the accessories for fall/winter meal prep, and small grills with green one pound propane cylinders for summer meal prep. Without water and electricity, you basically have a garage/shed that you can legally stay in for roughly six months steady or intermittently throughout the year. You can even use the original clapboard (we now call it double clap so that newbies don't get it confused with bevel siding) or novelty siding (originally called dutch lap). We even have shiplap log siding and brushed (rough) shiplap to make a log look or board & batten. 1x12 form board will also work for B&B, but needs to be air dried long enough not to split and hold a stain. But all that siding is more expensive than a smartpanel for coverage. We still have red pine flooring (prior to WWII) and SYP (after WWII)... but it can be more expensive than just inexpensive LVP or a stain-seal application over 3/4 ADV.