|
Home | Forums | Gallery | Webcams | Blogs | YouTube Channel | Classifieds | Calendar | Register | FAQ | Donate | Members List | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
12-28-2021, 05:03 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
|
Is the 1500-watt heater one of those oil filled heaters that resembles a tall cast iron steam radiator on four caster wheels and has NO fan? Am a little wary of these heaters because their cord looks to be a 16-gage lamp cord and the cord will get very warm?
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-28-2021 at 08:14 AM. Reason: ... corrected weary to wary. |
12-28-2021, 08:08 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,517
Thanks: 3,122
Thanked 1,090 Times in 784 Posts
|
Heating cost calculator
I know of a software engineer that reprogrammed a Nest thermostat that bases the auxiliary cutover of his electric heat pump to the NG condensing boiler based on the price of NG vs electricity that he manually enter into the thermostat. He thinks this will be the future of 'intelligent' thermostats.
I also know of a fairly large building in Center Harbor built in the 1800s, switched from an antiquated oil boiler to a state-of-the-art geothermal heat pump. Owner claims heating cost went from $1500 @ month to $150 @ month. Pretty impressive!
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. Last edited by BroadHopper; 12-28-2021 at 08:13 AM. Reason: clarity |
12-28-2021, 10:38 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,221
Thanks: 1,125
Thanked 938 Times in 580 Posts
|
As others have pointed out, it is not the cost per kWh, it is how the fuel is converted into heat. Electric mini split heat pumps are WAY cheaper than oil. In many cases, less than half the cost. Every home is different, of course. A Mitsubishi installer can do the math for your house to tell you annual savings and how long it would take you to pay for a system.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post: | ||
BroadHopper (12-28-2021) |
12-28-2021, 02:21 PM | #4 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,517
Thanks: 3,122
Thanked 1,090 Times in 784 Posts
|
Quote:
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to BroadHopper For This Useful Post: | ||
mswlogo (12-29-2021) |
12-28-2021, 03:01 PM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 49
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
|
I installed a Goodman split system 9 years ago with a 16 SEER heat pump. The heat pump is super efficient, but only good down to around 32 degrees F. In the fall and spring months, it heats the house at a cost of around $25-30 a month.
The propane side of the heating equation is not so good, although the furnace is rated at 95% AFUE (Annual Fuel Utilization Efficiency) and it is maintained annually. BH, curious if the geothermal system that cost $150 a month to run includes the proportional installation cost of the GTH system. |
Sponsored Links |
|
12-28-2021, 03:53 PM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,221
Thanks: 1,125
Thanked 938 Times in 580 Posts
|
Quote:
I appreciate these posts--I have mini splits in Mass, but only traditional in NH. I'm going to check out both the hybrid furnace and the condensing water heater as Summer projects. |
|
12-28-2021, 04:13 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 564
Thanks: 46
Thanked 104 Times in 75 Posts
|
When I was working one of my offices was in Sandwich, MA. Not a huge office heated by hot air electric with a heat pump. The monthly bill was around $50 year around. I had always heard that heat pumps were not good in cold weather and I went over one day despite the snowy, icy roads. The temperature was -10. We set the thermostat at 50 when we were not there.
This day I slowly turned up the thermostat so as to not turn on the furnace. I set it at 70 and it took about 10 minutes to reach 70 using the heat pump. Surely today that monthly bill would be higher. _____________________________________ I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic |
12-28-2021, 05:07 PM | #8 |
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 49
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
|
Looking around the IoT, I see a lot of variation as to how low a Heat pump can generate heat. I was told that my heat pump was good down to around 32 degrees F, but I am now not sure - I guess some more research is required.
|
12-28-2021, 06:38 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 736
Thanks: 4
Thanked 255 Times in 167 Posts
|
Regarding the minimum operating temperature of an air-source heat pump (ASHP), it's a matter of how it was designed. All heat pumps, including ones used for heating or cooling a house, providing air conditioning for your car, or a refrigerator, use a refrigerant fluid chosen for its thermodynamic properties. Two heat exchanger surfaces are involved. In heating mode, the refrigerant must evaporate by absorbing heat at some low pressure (but above atmospheric) and corresponding temperature somewhat below that of the outside air (or ground or well water in the case of geothermal). The refrigerant vapor is compressed to a pressure at which it condenses by losing heat to the inside air (or water if that is the purpose of the heat pump); the condensation temperature must be somewhat above that of the air or water absorbing the heat. The high temperature/high pressure liquified refrigerant then passes through a throttling valve to the low side (evaporator) coil to complete the cycle. The heat rejected at the high side is the total of heat absorbed at the low side plus energy input by the compressor. The Coefficient of Performance (COP) is the ratio of heat energy delivered divided by the energy input to the compressor.
An ASHP designed for operation in a milder climate than ours might well be limited to outside air temperatures above freezing. For New England, a cold-climate heat pump can indeed operate well to -13 F or even lower. As has been mentioned, the COP drops as outside air temperature is colder. It's like pumping water up hill; it takes more pump energy to move a given amount of water higher up the hill. So with an ASHP, the greater the "lift" in temperature, the more compressor power needed to move a given amount of heat absorbed to the destination temperature. Or, given the maximum compressor input power, less heat can be absorbed and delivered over a greater temperature difference. Good ASHPs can achieve a seasonal average COP of around 3, although at very low outside temperatures this drops to 2 or lower. By choosing the right refrigeration equipment and refrigerants, it's quite possible to absorb heat at cryogenic temperatures (think air liquifaction) and reject it to the "low" side of another complete refrigeration system, which then can reject the heat at more moderate temperatures. It's all a matter of operating conditions and refrigerant selection. More than you wanted to know, huh? |
The Following User Says Thank You to DickR For This Useful Post: | ||
FlyingScot (12-29-2021) |
12-28-2021, 06:50 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 782
Thanks: 233
Thanked 631 Times in 228 Posts
|
Quick...look out the window and see if you can see my head spinning from the cold air breeze! Ha...great info, but yes, more than I think I can absorb.
|
12-28-2021, 06:27 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,517
Thanks: 3,122
Thanked 1,090 Times in 784 Posts
|
No, he did not factor in the installation cost, be he expects the payback will be 7 years.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
The Following User Says Thank You to BroadHopper For This Useful Post: | ||
FlyingScot (12-29-2021) |
12-28-2021, 09:42 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
Quote:
I now have a Lasko ceramic 754200, very effective and safe little heater. |
|
12-28-2021, 09:46 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
Gentlemen, gentlemen, a simple answer if possible: at current rates, is my 1500-watt heater saving me money or costing more than it would cost to turn the oil heat up a few degrees? Without going into too much detail, which is cheaper per million BTU, oil or electricity?
|
12-28-2021, 10:12 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,026
Thanks: 2
Thanked 531 Times in 437 Posts
|
Oil is. But the oil would be heating a larger space, so the M/BTU would have a lesser effect on ambient temperature than a space heater putting out the same amount of heat in a lesser space.
|
The Following User Says Thank You to John Mercier For This Useful Post: | ||
SailinAway (12-29-2021) |
12-29-2021, 01:16 AM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
Quote:
P.S. I ordered oil yesterday. CN Brown was quite a bit cheaper than AD&G/Dead River, but delivery was two weeks out! Dead River always delivers in a day or two. CN Brown just doesn't have enough drivers and/or trucks for efficient delivery, and they require prepayment but not at today's price, rather the (higher) price two weeks from now. They also don't provide any type of service. I guess I have to stop trying to get oil from them. Nice folks though---their driver once backed into my car, putting a very small dent in it. The company paid me the $3000 repair estimate with no quibbles. (No, I did not get the dent repaired.) I love those kinds of accidents. |
|
12-29-2021, 06:13 PM | #16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,026
Thanks: 2
Thanked 531 Times in 437 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
12-29-2021, 01:08 AM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,969
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
Quote:
If, however, you have a leaky space or door open and will run it for a while, no, it would not be a savings. I would add that what you're probably saving, unless you have an incredibly drafty or large area beyond the one room, is negligible given a difference of a degree or two, especially if you open the door to go to the bathroom or have the slightest gap under the door, etc. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk |
|
The Following User Says Thank You to thinkxingu For This Useful Post: | ||
SailinAway (12-29-2021) |
12-29-2021, 01:21 AM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
12-29-2021, 01:31 AM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,969
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
Quote:
But that's moi! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk |
|
12-29-2021, 12:24 PM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
12-29-2021, 01:09 PM | #21 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,969
Thanks: 1,154
Thanked 1,965 Times in 1,213 Posts
|
Quote:
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk |
|
12-29-2021, 08:48 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
|
12-29-2021, 01:12 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,221
Thanks: 1,125
Thanked 938 Times in 580 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post: | ||
VitaBene (01-04-2022) |
12-29-2021, 08:57 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 991
Thanks: 256
Thanked 280 Times in 169 Posts
|
Quote:
|
|
12-29-2021, 09:52 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,555
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 2,407
Thanked 1,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
|
Wood and oil
Two years ago we did not burn any wood and just heated with oil (outside tank = kero). Last year we waited till the last minute to decide to burn some wood and got two cords of "seasoned" wood. Around $800 for the two cords.
This year, we cut and split close to 3 cords with the help of a few friends. Started off hand splitting until one of my neighbors stopped by and let me know I could borrow his gas log splitter. (Who knew he had one??? I didn't ) Wood sat on the driveway from the end of June until mid-September. We did not start to burn wood until mid-December because we were not around Nov to mid-Dec. We burn from when we get up in the morning around 530 or so and last load goes into the stove between 630-700 usually. I have a Nest learning thermostat and looking at the history while we were away, with the temp set at 50, the furnace ran around 3.5 - 4.5 hrs daily. Burning the wood during the day, the furnace is only running around 1.5 to 2.5 hrs daily. Given the fact the wood cost me nothing but my time and effort plus about a gallon of gas for the splitter, I'm feeling pretty good about our savings on the fuel oil cost. Now if I could just find a way to use swim noodles to make wood splitting easier. Dave
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!! |
12-29-2021, 10:27 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 3,026
Thanks: 2
Thanked 531 Times in 437 Posts
|
We did that experiment.
One home wood and oil boiler with tankless; other just the oil boiler with tankless. Wood savings over a three year period averaged about 100 gallons. Home using the wood has since switched to a mini-split... but still uses about 100 gallons annually less than me. Hot water, and the standby, eats up a lot of the usage. |
12-29-2021, 11:51 PM | #27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 660
Thanks: 196
Thanked 222 Times in 143 Posts
|
Quote:
Sorry I couldn’t keep it to just No because this site requires filler. So here it is. |
|
12-31-2021, 05:41 AM | #28 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 21
Thanks: 5
Thanked 35 Times in 8 Posts
|
Oil Heat or Mitsubishi Splits?
I’ve always used oil furnace to heat our home but this year installed Mitsubishi Splits with heat pumps for main floor and upstairs master bedroom. Basement is unfinished.
I keep the home at 50 degrees in the winter and sadly am rarely there. What is the best solution (most efficient manner) to keep my home heated at 50 through the winter? Use the Splits exclusively? If super cold, somehow have it set up so that oil furnace kicks in? I just can’t quite get my head around the optimal thermostat setup and how to balance use of both the Splits and oil heat to most efficiently heat the house. Got the Splits primarily for AC but included heat pumps to give me options for the winter. Thanks for any wisdom you all can share. |
12-31-2021, 08:51 AM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH
Posts: 5,517
Thanks: 3,122
Thanked 1,090 Times in 784 Posts
|
Now that requires a little 'rocket science'. You would have to take in the factor of efficiency of the appliances in cold weather, cost per btu etc. It can be done to determine the 'crossover'.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day. |
12-31-2021, 10:38 AM | #30 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonboro, NH
Posts: 2,863
Thanks: 462
Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts
|
Quote:
Honestly, without having done this calculation recently and assuming your oil heat is in the 80 to 85% range, I wouldn't worry too much about it and just do what made me feel best. |
|
12-31-2021, 11:57 AM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,221
Thanks: 1,125
Thanked 938 Times in 580 Posts
|
Quote:
My guess is that you have these on two separate controllers. If that is correct, you could set the mini splits at 50 and the oil at 45. Also, if you put the oil on a Nest, it's easy to control remotely. |
|
01-03-2022, 09:47 AM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 660
Thanks: 196
Thanked 222 Times in 143 Posts
|
Our previous house was a modern 2x6 construction with oil heat.
So I used to keep it at 40F. It was a HUGE difference, heat didn’t even come on until around January. I had multiple alarms that would call me if temp dropped below 40F. It didn’t give much buffer in the event of a power failure but I never had a problem. We used about 200 Gallon oil a year. |
01-04-2022, 10:05 AM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 54
Thanks: 21
Thanked 21 Times in 15 Posts
|
A Bit Off Topic ......
..... I have an oil-fired boiler at my vacation home. I employ several methods to monitor the heating system & temperature of the house.
I recommend (for those with a modern Honeywell R7284 controller on their burner) a little-known Honeywell Alarm Module (#W8735S3000). It closes a contact if it detects any system faults on the data bus. It's pretty cheap (around $45) and gives you a few hours advance notice before the house temperature drops. I have mine integrated into the house alarm system which notifies me of any number of adverse situations. Solid and reliable. The Carlin controller (#70200) has the contacts already built in; making life a little bit simpler. J |
01-04-2022, 01:08 PM | #34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 660
Thanks: 196
Thanked 222 Times in 143 Posts
|
Quote:
If house is calling for heat and doesn’t get it, it doesn’t take long to know something is wrong. Some smart Thermostats have that built in. |
|
Bookmarks |
|
|