Performance Boats

[Woodsy]

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

You live next to what is essentially a state park and you complain when people actually use it legally! Oh the Horror! People having fun usually make noise of some sort. Your expectation of peace and quiet does not trump the right of the public to enjoy the lake in any lawful manner.

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud. Ambient noise has a huge effect on how people perceive noise...


Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!


Woodsy

I looked at a boat a few years back and when I found it was through Fay's, I pulled out and went to a non hypocrite dealer. Go Figure ;-)

Great post btw!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud.

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.



.

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[Donzi Minx]

I posted about a week ago my thoughts on this. When my family still owned an old Chris Craft (almost identical to the boat filmed in On Golden Pond) the old flat head six with what I remember to be 4" copper exhaust through the transom was indeed loud. My only run in with the MP at that time was skiing inside the raft at Ames early in the morning. They just came and took the plate off the boat for a week! No issues with noise then.....1969, 1970? Look how far we have come.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by ApS

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

.

This is great, hundreds of peaceful lakeside residents? I love the facts and detail, can you send us the link to the facts? And the few minutes of exhaust notes could keep someone in the broads blowing a whistle from being saved?

So lets talk fact, there was a stranded boat in Wolfboro bay Saturday afternoon, over 30 nice and quiet boats drove by and didn't stop or offer help in anyway. I was riding on a louder (legal ;-) ) boat and we saw them waving (yes, we saw them waving over the exhaust note), stopped and then towed them to the docks and helped them load it. While towing them, we were almost hit, had many boats come closer than 150 ft and cause enormous wake, all of these boats were quiet.

They were happy to have a louder boat lend a hand, and didn't care one bit that we were, in your words, a scofflaw.

[rsmlp]

Personally, I don't really like loud boats BUT they have every right to be on the lake as others and forum members have every right to articulate their opinion. I've been on the lake for over 40 years and I can't really say there has been any appreciable change in traffic or noise. Back in the 70's, large "cabin cruisers" were all the rage and frankly the numbers of large loud boats has decreased over the past few years. Jet skis are clearly dominant now and I suppose there are people who want to bitch and moan about them too. As long as boat operators are legally operating and reasonably courteous, I DON'T CARE!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Just some facts here:

out door wilderness level 30-40 db
Human talking 70 db
Human yelling 88 db
Boat decibel limit at idle 88 db
Referee whistle decibel > 100 db
foghorn >130 db

These levels are all level at source type measurements. So apparently if boat exhaust is to loud, people best not being yelling around the lake either.....

Read up and understand why the levels that where chosen where chosen. They aren't random numbers. I wrote a big long post on this a couple of years ago...

The real issue here, is how sound travels over water.... on quiet nights I hear conversations from across the lake...

There should be absolutely no problem hearing a cry for help, or a distress whistle, over the noise of boat traffic even on the busiest of days, as long as you are in the vicinity of the problem.

If someone yells for help in Center Harbor, of course you not going to hear it in Meredith...

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by ApS

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.



.

.

Wow! I never thought about noise "rendering inaudible calls for help"

My neighbors kids like to play in the water and they are quite loud. I wonder if I should tell them that they can't play any more, or suggest they get muzzles? I mean, I would hate to have them render inaudible a call for help.

My other neighbor has a dog that barks. I wonder if I should suggest that they get rid of the dog in case someone is calling for help when their dog barks, rendering it inaudible?

Last week the guy next door mowed his lawn. I wonder if I should tell him to get a hand push mower so that the noise of his lawnmower motor does not "render inaudible a call for help"?

[JDeere]

So, this whole thread boils down to:

Some people like loud noise while others do not.

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Some folks like to quote "live free or die" when they feel their "rights" are in any way infringed yet the person disagreeing has no right to enjoy the lake on their terms and if they do not like it then they should move! Yikes!!!

As I have said I do not like the noise but I have never said the culprits should be banned. If the law says they are too loud then I fully support MP enforcing the law. If some of you do not like the law then work to get it changed but I am not sure what your logic would be....louder is better?

Really?

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

[MGWillia]

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

[HomeWood]

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

Second that and add my love for the sound of a tuned exhaust.
The roar of a 427 Shelby Cobra,that pleasing crackle of an Aston Martin,even the rumble of a Harley as long as it's not a straight pipe blast.
No matter what I'm doing,I'll always take a peek when a nice performance boat passes my house.
Love the sound of pipes.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud.

And others can't hear the song because their heads are either stuck in the sand or other places where the sun don't shine.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Tyler

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.

Originally Posted by MGWillia

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.



Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:



When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.



I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.



Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:



When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

.

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

My friend, his wife and 2 passengers are very lucky they were in their 7000 pound Doral when they got hit on their port side on the lake this summer by a bad boater in a smaller vessel.

[JDeere]

Some of the replies really are too funny. The thread starts with how wonderful all the boats were and I opined that is was a bit too loud and frenetic for me. Next thing people start to take personal swipes at me...or at least my screen name. One person starts to talk about the Indians and how what happened to them somehow correlates to his right to live free or die. How sophomoric.

Seems many of you get your panties all in twist if someone sees the world differently than you. That is a sad way to live. You have a right to your opinion and I mine...btw...your opinion's did not carry much credence since we now have new laws to deal with speed and noise.

Lastly "live free or die" was never meant to mean do whatever you want.

The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington. Instead, he sent his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.
Stark may not have been the original author of the phrase. Vivre Libre ou Mourir ("Live free or die") was a popular motto of the French Revolution, which the politician Antoine Barnave had engraved on his buttons.[2]

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by ApS

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

Well, despite all the education that was done about the switchable exhaust it appears that some people still don't seem to understand, that the exhaust noise test would be done with the the exhaust going through the hull.... not through the hub. If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done with out the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

It funny that all I have is an 18' bow rider, not an oversized ocean racer, yet I still realized that the switchable exhaust law was just plain wrong.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done without the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

While the change was initially presented as a logical solution—that exhaust noise would become "less-loud"—it hasn't worked out. Noise testing is now done at dockside. It was the first step in fooling the Legislature. A widely circulated photo of the Governor about to sign the new noise bill shows the Governor's face as grim. What'd he suspect?

Legalizing the "Captain's Choice" exhaust-cutout allows noisy boats to operate in either quiet or loud mode. For reasons that should be obvious, loud boats still plague Winnipesaukee's bays, harbors, inlets and coves.

Cutouts are widely banned in automobiles, but because noise travels greater distances over water, too many noisy boats have been tolerated on Lake Winnipesaukee for too long.

Lakers have "earned the right" to make the most noise, but they've got even louder competition.

If you've viewed the video of the race (that "wasn't a race") taken over the 2013 Labor Day Weekend, you should be scratching your head. At ½-mile away, the loud rapping exhaust noise of 15 "Performance" boats was recorded with the camera's microphone, which measures only 1.5 millimeters across.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

"...Oh come on ApS. You love the sound of noisy aircraft..."

Sorry, I don't.

Every bright summer afternoon, I am drawn upwards to a white Waco biplane (radial engine) that flies over Wolfeboro's little airport, then directly over my Dad's house. The Sukhoi (radial engine) that does weekend acrobatics over Rattlesnake Island can be heard doing Immelmann turns. No Rattlesnake Islander has made mention of that "noise"—and they're missing a show!

It's the sound of the aircraft radial engines that won WWII that I like—they're not "in your face", like a bunch of Harleys blasting up a road with straight pipes.

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Woodsy]

Lakers have no more right to be loud any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

NH Boat Noise RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-37.htm

Switchable Exhaust RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-25.htm

Read RSA270:25 very carefully especially as it pertains to 270:25-II Note the wording....

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37.

Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

[Phantom]

"Ding"...


another Round begins !




.

[BroadHopper]

I guess I will buzz around APS house and do some short take off and landing out front just to get his goat. Those Lycoming engines with variable pitch pusher props can be quite loud. Oh and I am quite legal by the way!

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I guess I will buzz around APS house and do some short take off and landing out front just to get his goat. Those Lycoming engines with variable pitch pusher props can be quite loud. Oh and I am quite legal by the way!

So, that is your answer. Someone does not like your noise so you will cruise around the persons house. What a jerk.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by JDeere

So, that is your answer. Someone does not like your noise so you will cruise around the persons house. What a jerk.

Man, if that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Man, if that's not a personal attack, I don't know what is.

What else but jerk would you call a person who threatens to harass a forum member BECAUSE their opinion is that they do not like the noise from the performance boats.

You are free to opine as am I...but when someone crosses the line and talks about harassment then we are no longer in the world of opinions are we?

[Chaselady]

Lordy, Lordy, please send this mess back to the dungeon!

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by JDeere

What else but jerk would you call a person who threatens to harass a forum member BECAUSE their opinion is that they do not like the noise from the performance boats.

You are free to opine as am I...but when someone crosses the line and talks about harassment then we are no longer in the world of opinions are we?

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else. However, calling someone a "jerk' just because you don't like their post or their position on something is uncalled for in my opinion. If I were allowed to refer to everyone on here that have opinions, positions and agendas that I don't agree with, then the Forum would be loaded with them. However, that's not the case. Agreeing to disagree (respectfully) seems far more pleasant than unnecessary personal attacks and name calling.

[ApS]

"Harassment comes with the territory".

Agreed...Lake amphibians are the loudest single-engine aircraft over Lake Winnipesaukee, but only because stock Republic Seabees have nearly disappeared.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Lakers have no more right to be louder than any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

What FACT was that? Sure, one can be made legal by shuffling new conditions into the RSAs.

Thanks for the reminder for Lakers; now, how can I tell that the Laker going by has a "PERMIT"? How could it be any louder than ocean-racers? A Cobalt shouldn't be making the same volume of noise as a Laker with a "PERMIT". Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...psba384928.mp4

Thank you for the references to the changes to the previous RSA. I see there's a yearly "creep" as to what newer engines may be allowed to create more noise:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37. Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

Are all the noisy boats in my Labor Day video now in compliance with the newest RSA?

I didn't think so.

It appears the RSA was deliberately "crafted" to make noisy interruptions legal—beginning with the change from the former (and dangerous) 100+ MPH run-by tests.

Who would fault NHMP for copying New Jersey's recent dockside noise-testing standards? 'No point in risking an officer being run over at the very high speeds that accompanies the vast majority of "performance" boats.

This opinion still stands:

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Woodsy]

APS...

Your last post illustrates my issue with you and others like you. You post your OPINION but state it as FACT. You have a right to your opinion, and I do respect that. However, I will call you out when you state your opinion as FACT...

Its not my fault you cannot comprehend/understand the noise laws... they are VERY specific and VERY enforceable! This is so simple a 5th grader could understand it!

The noise (Db) limits set in RSA 270:35 have not changed in OVER 20 YEARS! So regardless of your opinion, there has been no "yearly creep" or increase in the allowed exhaust noise. Boats manufactured after December 31, 1990 are subject to a STRICTER noise standard than those manufactured prior.

The noise limits for NH are NOT arbitrary numbers. They were derived from noise standards & statutes from both the Federal Gov't, other states & marine manufacturers (NMMA) and the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA). NASBLA are the ones behind the Safe Boater certification standards. To wit, the NH boating noise laws follow the NASBLA noise recommendations from 1989 to the letter! Hard to believe we have had the same noise laws for over 20 years.... the HORROR!

The switchable (Captains Call) exhaust allowed under RSA 270:25-II does not allow for anyone to exceed the noise limits set forth in RSA 270:35. In simpler terms, a boat cannot be in violation of RSA 270:35 regardless of the switchable exhaust. Sorry you are having a hard time understanding this VERY SIMPLE law.

But why let facts get in the way of your anti-performance boats BS??

As to the rest of your post...

You (or I) personally have no way of knowing if an old Laker has a permit allowing an exception to RSA 270:35 short of getting the bow numbers and asking the NHMP. I seriously doubt they have ever issued more than a handful of permits. I would think they tend to be nostalgic and look the other way when it comes to the old boats. (as most people tend to do)

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them. Given your propensity to sensationalize a subject, who is to say those videos are not edited to increase the sound level in order to prove your point?

Are you a qualified sound engineer? What was the ambient noise level (db) prior to those boats running by? What was the actual noise level (db) of the boats? Exactly how far away were you? What was their bearing relative to you? Where is the DB meter showing the readings in your video? When was it last calibrated? Etc etc...

The bottom line is... It is your OPINION that those boats in your videos were too loud. It is not however a FACT.

Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

Oh boy.

[Pricestavern]

Good God! Can't this be taken off-line thru PMs rather than subject us all to the finger-pointing, name calling, ridiculing, and down-right nasty tone this has spun down to? Please?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...psba384928.mp4

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same....

I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no nosier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

I think that it is crazy that you spend so much time trying to prove your case. I am sorry that you vision of the lake, is not in tune with others. I have tried many times over the years to put Facts out before this forum on maters of noise levels. But the message seems to get lost....

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter.... like wise in a at speed test, the boat is monitored to ensure the exhaust switch is appropriately set. Not to mention that muffling the sound will cause damage to the engine at full speed. Once again the limit is the based on the loudest exhaust method. switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

The only thing I will agree with you on, is how are you to know when and if a boat is legal.... If you want to waste the MP time, and call in everytime you think a boat is over the limit that is your choice, and I am sure if possible they will check it out.... But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

I live on a very busy portion of the lake, with boats racing from the LI bridge to the six pack all summer long..... yep once in a while it gets noise, but never in over 25 years, have I not been able to hold a normal conversation and have issue hearing people. Even when the neighbor 4 houses down starts his boat...with it thundering exhaust.

[Pineedles]

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

[Pricestavern]

Never saw that disclaimer before since I usually go to the 'New Posts' section to check out the postings.

I'll leave you all to your cat fight. Enjoy!

[MGWillia]

Because I'm new and because I'm not a current boater (or even resident till later this year) I'm trying to learn from all of you about all the issues of the lakes and the region. And if there is more to be constructively said, I'm all for reading it. And though it seems to take dives into personal jabs, it does bounce back to interesting facts.I do have one question though. Is ground (or water for that matter) being made in the debate? I will admit that I get lost occasionally, but that could be my newbie ignorance. I have a feeling that there are some more factoids to be learned. Would it be possible to get a recap of where we are at? I mean if the discussion is making progress?

[SIKSUKR]

MGWillia, this forum had a very heated debate a few years back when a controversial speed limit was being pushed for Winni and ultimately passed. As Pineedles posted, the Webmaster had to make a special section because of all the members that were sick of the back and forth. It was his way to appeaze both participants and non participants. This thread has a little bit of that left over.FWIW

[BroadHopper]

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

The problem is when the thread keeps showing up in " New Posts " and someone opens it thinking there may be something new or worthwhile, only to discover the same old ranting, chest beating argument.
It would be nice if a thread that was exiled to the "special" place would stay there.
So many of the threads on this forum turn into personal beefs it gets hard to know what is safe to read.
And it's really annoying when you read something nasty when you didn't plan on it, then say something about it, and someone on the forum jumps in and basically tells you to not read it.

[HellRaZoR004]

CL is referring to the New Post tab at the very top of the page (left of the Search Tool).

CL, look at the forum column at the far right of that page. The Lake Issues forum will show up. Just don't click on threads in that forum. Or just ignore this thread entirely....

ps. You'll also notice the following statement the next time you visit if you don't open threads "The threads below have not been updated since your last visit but still contain unread posts.". Eventually it will fall to a different page entirely

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

Not at all, I am pointing out that that post was what sent my positive post down a path that moved this to the Issues category giving it a negative tone.