Bill would allow 'switchable exhausts' on boats

[OCDACTIVE]

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...2/0/CITNEWSHot

[Pineedles]

Sounds like a great idea. I don't know how anyone could argue with a bill that only makes a boat quieter.

[ishoot308]

This is a great idea especially when coming in and out of port / marina at night or early in the morning or when docking.

Dan

[XCR-700]

WOW, finally a voice of reason,,,

Long over due and much appreciated!!!

[ApS]

What Price, "Safety", SBONH?

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I don't know how anyone could argue with a bill that only makes a boat quieter.

It doesn't.

This is another "Trojan Horse" for naïve New Hampshire Reps and Senators—just like the bill that made "Jet-Ski" into "Boat".

[RI Swamp Yankee]

From the Citizen story:

Verdonck explained that there are two types of exhaust systems: a through-hull and an above-hull system. Through-hull systems push the engine exhaust out through the propeller, which does not create much noise. Verdonck said many of the high-performance boats require the above-hull exhaust systems because of the increased pressure created by such boats. Because the above-hull systems are exposed out of the water, the sound must be controlled by a muffler.

What about exhaust systems that are below waterline but not through the propeller? Does Verdonck know there are more than two?

[Hezman]

Great pro-active bill to enhance the lake experience for all.......and finally a boating bill submission based on reasonable rationale!

[Woodsy]

RISY....

I am guessing the reporter knows very little about boats and paraphrased the actual quote. But then again some people take everything they read as fact regardless of the source!

There are 2 popular modern marine sterndrive exhaust systems used by most boat builders, both systems use water to cool and somewhat muffle the exhaust. The most popular system on runabouts and small cruisers (300HP and under) exit below the waterline through the sterndrive using the slight negative pressure created by the propeller to help evacuate the exhaust. This is far & away the quietest system. The exhaust system does not require any mufflers and is rarely if ever above the water. However it is limited to smaller marine engines.

On larger HP boats, (300 and up) most boat manufacturers offer a thru hull system that allows the exhaust to exit through the transom or side of the boat and into the air. This system usually has the rumble of an older corvette. By NH law, this type of system requires mufflers. The noise level of any motorized vessel must not exceed these limits...

Stationary test limit:
90 decibels for engines manufactured prior to January 1, 1991
88 decibels for engines manufactured on or after January 1, 1991

Moving test limit as measured on the “A” scale and from a distance of 50 feet:
84 decibels for engines manufactured prior to January 1, 1991
82 decibels for engines manufactured on or after January 1, 1991

Coincedentally, the NH law is pretty much in line with the NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Association) standards for noise regulation. So most boats built in the last 20 years or so have conformed to the NMMA standards... even as those standards have tightened up over the years.

http://www.nmma.org/lib/docs/nmma/gr...ssions_NPS.doc


The switchable exhaust system, also called "Captain's Call" or "Quick & Quiet" is the best of both worlds! It allows the boat owner to switch between thru hull or thru the propeller.... thus quieting the boat when idling around the docks, or late night early morning cruises.

The proposed law REQUIRES THE BOAT TO CONFORM TO THE NOISE REGULATIONS IN THE OPEN (LOUD) OR CLOSED (QUIET) POSITION.... so if a boat legally passes the noise test to begin with, how does the switchable exhaust cause any harm??

If I can be quieter around the docks, or enjoy early morning cruises quietly... I am all for it! I do not understand why anyone would not be!


Woodsy

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

.... I am guessing the reporter knows very little about boats and paraphrased the actual quote. ....

I was thinking the same about the reporter who may not have understood all that Scott Verdonck said.

When I wrote that I was thinking about a little inboard I used to have many years ago. It had a Grey Marine 4 cylinder engine that pumped the cooling water through the engine and out the exhaust which was below the waterline. It wasn't a nice as those old Chris-Craft boats I used to admire at Alton Bay that had a similar exhaust setup. I don't think the reporter would even remember those boats.

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

What Price, "Safety", SBONH?


It doesn't.

This is another "Trojan Horse" for naïve New Hampshire Reps and Senators—just like the bill that made "Jet-Ski" into "Boat".

Just like the Trojan Horse speed limit bill that wasn't about speed at all, but rather was about scrubbing the lake of a certain kind of boat. But that's ok, right, since it's your agenda.

:ya wn:

[jrc]

Can someone please tell me any reason this law would be a bad idea?

It does not allow any louder boats than are allowed today, and it allows those boats to be quieter when they are running slowly. What am I missing?

I understood the speed limit proponents, even if I heartily disagreed with them. Same with rafting laws and no wake zones, I understand why some people want them.

Why would anyone be against this law? Am I missing a "slippery slope" argument? Is it "not far enough".

I'm for any law that makes the lake quieter without restricting anyone rights.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by jrc

Can someone please tell me any reason this law would be a bad idea?

It does not allow any louder boats than are allowed today, and it allows those boats to be quieter when they are running slowly. What am I missing?

I understood the speed limit proponents, even if I heartily disagreed with them. Same with rafting laws and no wake zones, I understand why some people want them.

Why would anyone be against this law? Am I missing a "slippery slope" argument? Is it "not far enough".

I'm for any law that makes the lake quieter without restricting anyone rights.

Let's see what SOTD has to say about this. He seems to be the authority on this issue!

[tc_mike]

Originally Posted by jrc

Can someone please tell me any reason this law would be a bad idea?

I believe that some opponents of this bill would argue that a legal switchable exhaust system makes it easier for boaters to violate the noise regulations and get away with it. I can think of no other reason to oppose this bill.

[jrc]

Got it, so some people are afraid that boats that are too loud, will not be noticed as too loud because everytime anyone is nearby they will be switched to quiet mode. So the only time they will be too loud is when no one can hear them.

That reminds me of this quote:

the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

[Pineedles]

This issue is so non-contraversial that I can't understand why it is in the debating area? There has been no opposing information as to why this is a bad bill, only opposition from a few folks with nothing to back up why they think it is a bad bill. What is going on? Has the SL debate made the supporters of the Speed Limit just blindly oppose anything from the other side? OMG, are you really just trolls, and just like to argue?

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by jrc

Got it, so some people are afraid that boats that are too loud, will not be noticed as too loud because everytime anyone is nearby they will be switched to quiet mode. So the only time they will be too loud is when no one can hear them.

That reminds me of this quote:

the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

If the boat has to be able to pass the noise test in open or closed mode I kind of think this is a mute point. As it stands right now, if a MP officer "thinks" your boat might be too loud he can effect a stop and issue a citation requiring you to take the noise test.... the proposed law does not change this.


Woodsy

[ApS]

Thinking about this some more:

This bill may fool the rank-and-file, but it won't trick Director Barrett.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Thinking about this some more:

This bill may fool the rank-and-file, but it won't trick Director Barrett.

And who is trying to trick Director Barrett? What exactly is the "trick?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by chipj29

And who is trying to trick Director Barrett? What exactly is the "trick?

You'll have to ask Director Barrett—after he receives my handwritten advisory—which I haven't finished yet.

I'll be leaving out the part where the chief instigator is opposed to seatbelt use—mandatory or otherwise—and may have attracted the attention of many New Hampshire voters by the enjoyment of a lighted cigar in Lakes Region restaurants.

[jmen24]

Waiting almost two weeks to post a reply. It almost seems like you thrive on having the last word. Well Bob, I am going to take another one from you. My posts almost make as much sense as your posts do.

[ApS]

"Safe Boaters" may need to study their "studied" proposal—a lot!

Recently, a two-engined 38-foot Fountain sank due to its "through-hull" exhaust.

The URL below leads to the actual story and CG video, but the December issue of Soundings presently has its findings only in print.

By later request of the owner, the Fountain 38 was recovered from the bottom and examined. The victims had seen water pumped into the bilge through one engine—eventually stalling both engines—and causing the boat to sink!

The problem was the exhaust!

Twenty hours is a long time to tread water a ½-mile off shore before rescue—they should have had a PED!

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=4286

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

"Safe Boaters" may need to study their "studied" proposal—a lot!

Recently, a two-engined 38-foot Fountain sank due to its "through-hull" exhaust.

The URL below leads to the actual story and CG video, but the December issue of Soundings presently has its findings only in print.

By later request of the owner, the Fountain 38 was recovered from the bottom and examined. The victims had seen water pumped into the bilge through one engine—eventually stalling both engines—and causing the boat to sink!

The problem was the exhaust!

Twenty hours is a long time to tread water a ½-mile off shore before rescue—they should have had a PED!

http://www.boattest.com/Resources/vi...px?NewsID=4286

Maybe during your next google search you should find an article for a sail boat that sank due to running aground. It would be just as relevant.

[VtSteve]

I've heard of boats taking on water for a variety of reasons. Some of the air vents on certain models allow water to be come in after stopping, sometimes the exhaust bellows is aged, and that will sink the boat as well. I didn't see where they found the cause, my guess would be the bellows, that's a lot of water coming in quickly.

Many boats have thru-hull exhausts, from old Chris Crafts to some bowriders and cruisers. Whether a boat has switchable exhaust or not has no bearing on the above reference.

The boat in question was an express cruiser, and they were fishing. Due to this fact, I wondered whether they had anchored from the stern.. Not a wise thing to do in any boat. But All 7 people were wearing PFD's, probably a good thing.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

The problem was the exhaust!

Do you have the Soundings magazine in question? If so, would you please provide the text where it explains why the boat sank? My six-yr-old Baja has thru-hull exhausts and while I've not had a problem with them yet, I'd like to know if there's something I should be giving some extra attention to.

Thank you.

[hazelnut]

Good post Steve. APS just showed his extreme lack of knowledge when it comes to Thru-Hull exhaust. Many boats come from the factory with thru-hull and have to be "Monkeyed" with to comply with the antiquated, outdated NH law.

APS needs to do some relevant google searching to educate himself on what switchable exhaust is. Actually come to think of it if the boat in question HAD switchable exhaust it quite possibly could have saved the boat from sinking as the captain could have switched it to thru-transom and the water would have stopped coming in through the pipes.

So actually thanks APS for raising the issue and helping to illustrate yet another benefit to switchable exhaust.

[VtSteve]

I still think that they were anchored from the stern and fishing, a no no in those conditions offshore.

Thanks for the link APS, that was very helpful.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Thinking about this some more:

This bill may fool the rank-and-file, but it won't trick Director Barrett.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

You'll have to ask Director Barrett—after he receives my handwritten advisory—which I haven't finished yet.

I'll be leaving out the part where the chief instigator is opposed to seatbelt use—mandatory or otherwise—and may have attracted the attention of many New Hampshire voters by the enjoyment of a lighted cigar in Lakes Region restaurants.

Not sure if it "tricked" anyone, but it passed. Sorry.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em!

[jarhead0341]

I guess the hand written advisory wasn't finished in time........ glad to see there is still some common sense out there

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by jarhead0341

i guess the hand written advisory wasn't finished in time........ Glad to see there is still some common sense out there

now lets work on the other things

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jarhead0341

I guess the hand written advisory wasn't finished in time........

I elected to write the Governor instead, and referred to this bill as the Trojan Horse it is.

Mentioned, was that this bill will bring every boater with "Switchable Exhaust" out in the open, and "invite" visitors—with bad boating reputations—from neighboring states .

There was no reply for weeks and weeks. Somebody in his office later replied, "The bill has been signed".

These past few days, "Switchable Exhausts" have been switched on-and-off-and-on-again—rattling windows and dishes.

Credit SBONH with sneaking this through to completion: SBONH definitely "got back" at WinnFABS' family boaters.

"Quiet and Quieter" is a joke—a joke at the expense of peaceable family boaters. Peaceable boaters, of whom New Hampshire law mandates—to always carry on board—a whistle).

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

I elected to write the Governor instead, and referred to this bill as the Trojan Horse it is.

Mentioned, was that this bill will bring every boater with "Switchable Exhaust" out in the open, and "invite" visitors—with bad boating reputations—from neighboring states .

There was no reply for weeks and weeks. Somebody in his office later replied, "The bill has been signed".

These past few days, "Switchable Exhausts" have been switched on-and-off-and-on-again—rattling windows and dishes.

Credit SBONH with sneaking this through to completion: SBONH definitely "got back" at WinnFABS' family boaters.

"Quiet and Quieter" is a joke—a joke at the expense of peaceable family boaters. Peaceable boaters, of whom New Hampshire law mandates—to always carry on board—a whistle).

\

You have no clue what you are talking about as switchable exhausts can only do one thing...make a boat quieter. They can only be used when docking or coming into or out of port. They cannot, repeat CANNOT be switched at any speed above headway speed without engine damage. They cannot be turned on and off at cruising speed as you are trying to allude to. Your claims are completely false and without merit.

I have already seen the benefits of this exhaust while sitting at the Glendale Town docks last weekend. Boats which were normally legally loud while warming up were able to switch to quiet mode. There was a huge difference in sound levels. All docks, coves and no wake areas on Winnipesaukee have already started to see the benefit of this bill and will continue as more and more "Captains Call" exhaust are installed.

I applaud SBONH for getting this bill passed!!

Dan

[NHBUOY]

...IS308...not so sure about not being able to use the switchable exhausts on "quiet mode" at ONLY headway speed...that is simply not true...what makes you think that.?..just curious...re:aps...he is what he isn't......

[Formula]

I was told by a dealer that the law is still in effect and that switchable Exhaust is still illegal.
Can someone confirm?
Thanks

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Formula

I was told by a dealer that the law is still in effect and that switchable Exhaust is still illegal.
Can someone confirm?
Thanks

Here is the current law:

270:25 Muffling Devices. –
I. No person shall own or operate or sell or offer for sale, within the jurisdiction of this state, a boat propelled in whole or in part by gas, gasoline, diesel, or naphtha unless the boat is provided with an underwater exhaust or other muffling device constructed and used so as to muffle the noise of the explosion. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to require an underwater exhaust or other muffling device on a boat that is being sold for salvage purposes.
II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.
III. The provisions of this section shall not apply to antique boats or classic boats which have met the decibel levels established in RSA 270:37 and have been issued a permit exempting them from this section. For the purposes of this section "antique boat'' means a boat built prior to 1943 and "classic boat'' means a boat built between 1943 and 1968 inclusive.
IV. No person shall own, operate, sell, or offer for sale any boat which is capable of discharging exhaust above the water unless the boat is equipped with muffling devices.