Alton bay navigation question

Dave R · 09-02-2004, 02:07 PM

Just off Sandy Point, there are two markers that indicate one should not go between them. I have seem many power boats go between them and wonder if they are there solely for very deep draft vessels like the Mount and some sail boats. What is between them?

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-02-2004, 03:35 PM

It's just a big gravel mound with a flat top. The shallowest that it gets there is about 6' during normal water height and during draw down it's 4' to 5'. A powerboat can pass easily between the marker and so could I (5' draft my boat) most of the time, but I'd be very nervous, even a slow gravel grounding can hurt.

I never cut the makers, you never know what’s waiting just out of sight and the marker may have been moved. As an interesting note most markers are in 14' of water, however, the marker and light at Seawall Point has a bolder 10'-12' in dia. just to the north side and most of the time it's just 2' down. When I stand on top of it in late summer the water just above my knees... I sure wouldn't want to find that one at any speed.

Rattlesnake Gal · 09-02-2004, 03:38 PM

On the same note, why is the marker near Treasure Island black, not red like it should be? Am I missing something?

Mee-n-Mac · 09-02-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

Just off Sandy Point, there are two markers that indicate one should not go between them. I have seem many power boats go between them and wonder if they are there solely for very deep draft vessels like the Mount and some sail boats. What is between them?

I asked this very same question on the old forum ! You are correct in that the markers are for deep draft vessels like the Mount and larger sailboats. Boats drawing less than 5 ft have nothing to worry about which is 1 reason* people ignore them. I think WinniDivers replied (to my query) that there's nothing but a gravel mound** btw the 2 markers.

*another is that people don't understand which direction to take. Occasionally I see boats approaching the black tipped buoy slow to a crawl, meander back and forth and then proceed to the "wrong" side. I wonder if the lesson wrongly learned has bit them in the butt at some other, less forgiving, place on the lake

**and WD confirmed this again just before I submitted this post. Speed Typist I am not !

Mee-n-Mac · 09-02-2004, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

On the same note, why is the marker near Treasure Island black, not red like it should be? Am I missing something?

I've wondered the same thing myself. Hested west on and E-W course, say coming from Ship I, the black marker would tell you to pass btw it and Treasure I, which would be a bad thing. You'd think it would be red or a red/blacked paired such as to indicate a keep out zone

GWC... · 09-02-2004, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

On the same note, why is the marker near Treasure Island black, not red like it should be? Am I missing something?

Similar to fl 22 by Littlemark Island, you are expected to pass to the East of the black buoy by Treasure, just as you are expected to pass to the North of the black buoy by fl 25 at the end of Rattlesnake Island.

Or, you could do whatever and have some props customized by Captain Crunch.

Choices, choices, choices... What's a person to do?

Rinkerfam · 09-02-2004, 10:25 PM

I am glad to see that someone else is curious about the black top by Treasure Isl. I've often wondered about it, but never thought to post the question here. Glad I'm not alone

Drummer Boy · 09-03-2004, 06:35 AM

Does anyone have any information on the annual steamboat parade that occurs up in Lee's Mills / Green's Basin. It generally takes place the Sunday following the Labor Day weekend. It's a great event with about 50+ steamboats parading around this area but not well publicized.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-03-2004, 07:25 AM

I've often thought about diving that spot, but for various reasons have not. We usually get sidetracked and end up diving somewhere else, someplace that may have more treasures to be found. (That's a joke; as if someone could logically predict where any good place to find treasure would be.) I assumed it was more of the granite rocks that are at Ship Island. If it is as I suspect then the chances of finding anything if interest are slim, unless you’re into fishing junk... The best treasures are in the silt on the bottom.

I know my dive buddy Tom has dove there, but he's not into treasure hunting. I'll ask him what down there or maybe I'll just slip over there on Saturday and check it out myself.

gtxrider · 09-06-2004, 11:32 AM

What gets me about passing Sandy Point is not those that go between the markers but the fools that think they can go between the Red Marker and the swim line. The come down the lake hugging the shore pass in front of Sandy Point and continue, not at headway speed, between the Red Marker and the shore.

I have seen a few close calls as boats come out of the cove at Sandy Point and hang a quick left and there is a another boat flying down the bay too close to the Point.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-06-2004, 06:46 PM

I made the recon dive at this site last Saturday and it was just as I suspected. Rocks, rocks and more rocks, just as I surmise in my last post, it more of the same as Ship Island, just a rock pile that comes up from an other wise sandy bottom, the rocks range in size from small pieces of granite to huge boulders the size of a small car, however, most are just 2-3 feet in diameter. The pile shoals up to 5 feet just south of the marker and stays that way to just a few feet north of the Red marker with the light. There are several ridges at various depths that run N-S both to the east and the west of the pile. Most of these ridges are at least 20 -30 feet high off the bottom.

Also as I predicted in my previous post there were no treasures down there either. As you may recall, I said we have thought about diving there many times but passed it up for better hunting grounds. I guess my intuition was right, I best I could find down there was; a fairly new down-rigger with S/S line strewn along the bottom for a hundred yards with the cannon ball attached, (I though about bringing it up, but what would I do with it then?) hundreds of lures and lines of all sizes, shapes and colors, three anchors (one was a 300 pound Navy style anchor that was rusted so bad it took a while of poking at it before I recognized what it was) and a flying saucer that was in pretty good shape (like the ones we used to use back in the 60's, the snow type that is).

So, all in all it was a pretty boring dive... But at least now I know why, I don't want to dive there again. However, I did see lots of freshly moved rocks and several broken ones too about 8 to 10 feet down, I wondered if this was due from boats or was it from the ice sheet, perhaps a pressure ridge… Interesting

Oh ya, you can cut that one too in a small powerboat, just stay clear of the lighted marker to the south. I'll stay on the preferred side though.

upthesaukee · 09-07-2004, 06:08 PM

Hi W. D. Nice to meet you down at the bay a week or two ago. I think the black marker off Treasure Island that was discussed is the one that is off the east or southeast side of the island and is a fair distance from the island. I think you dove on the shoal that is between Treasure and Rattlesnake, and east of Sleepers. That black is pretty self explanatory, and has the red buoy at the other end of the shoal along with the flashing light.
The black buoy "on the other side of the island" is tough to spot at night, and is not one of Bizer's waypoints on his download file, so I finally remembered to ease on up to that rascal during the day and make my own waypoint. The others are right, if you are on an east west course, and approach that marker without looking at your chart, it would appear that you should pass north of the marker which would put you between the marker and the southeast end of Treasure. I fear that would mean "can you spell lower unit gone!!!!!" (or keel in the rocks!!!!)

Bottom line, GPS is great, but RTC or RTM, otherwise known as Read The Chart or Read The Map.

BTW, diving that shoal north of Treasure ought to be like trying to dive on the Lady. Boats just fly through that shoal area, on plane, and really don't care how close they are to you. We have anchored out there and had double digit number of boats pass within 50-75 feet on plane, almost like we weren't there. Not to worry, we have been there three times, and never more: it was the first, last, and only time.

Dive safe, and hope to see you before winter sets in.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-08-2004, 06:31 PM

Not only was it the most boring dive of the year, now you tell me I was in the wrong place too... Man, you're really mean... couldn't have at least said, "Thanks for the info... Now, what about the marker just south of Sleeper Island?" No, you have to rub in that I can't read either...

Well, I can't bear to spend anymore time researching that marker as well.
You'll just have to don the gear and check it out for yourself.

All kidding aside, time is getting real short for diving this year and I have lots of things coming up before I hang up the gear for the winter. I have to make the most of it and another dive to the rock pile just to see what's down there isn’t high on my list of priorities.

For example: I have two grandkids that really need to explore "Story land" this coming Saturday then it's beginner diving lessons for them on Sunday. I made the big mistake of letting the oldest one breathe off my pony tank while lead her around with the consol a couple weeks ago.... Well now, once she told her cousin what she had done, now, all I hear is; "when can I do it?" So Sunday dive buddy Paul and I will be at the sandbar leading the two mud puppies around until they run out of air. (Don’t worry, I won’t let them get below 500 PSI or deeper than I can stand)

When I get really hard up for a place to dive, I make another trip out to the rock pile and check it out for you.

upthesaukee · 09-08-2004, 09:40 PM

OOOOOOOOOPS. Thanks for the info.

I figure that the area southeast of Treasure is probably like so many of the shoal areas... Pretty good pile of rocks, some of which could raise havoc with a lower unit or keel. And unlike my diving days when fishing was normally done from an anchored boat and you could find a couple of anchors every time you went diving, today they use electric troll motors, so you don't even find the anchors.

Seriously, thanks for your efforts to define the shoal area north of Treasure, and I hope that the water will be clear and warm for at least another month, and the bottom filled with treasures (not the island!!!!). hope to see you again soon.

Winnipesaukee Divers · 09-14-2004, 06:52 PM

I suppose by now your all wondering how the diving exposition with the mud puppies (my 6 & 7 year old grand kids) went… Well, all I heard Friday and Saturday was when could we go SCUBA diving by them, never mind how much fun we were having at Story Land, diving was the big thing for this weekend. So, on Sunday dive buddy Paul came up with his dive boat and we set off for the far reaches of the big lake. After we stopped by the dive shop to top up the tank, we headed for the sand bar at Long Island for a BBQ and underwater exploration.

Once lunch was over it was off to explore the three-foot depths of the sandbar. We found rocks, rock and more rocks, fishes and of course an occasional treasure or two which was brought back to the boat. After about an hour of this kind of hard core SCUBA diving we all had enough and it was time to pull up the anchor and explore more of the lake.

A funny thing happen once we got back to the docks at WCYC, the kids decided they needed some more beach time since this was going to be the last time this year for them. They grab their masks and fins and headed for the beach. One thing led to another and soon they were free diving to the bottom searching for more treasures while we sat by watching them. One of our member/friends was in fear for them and couldn’t stand it any longer. He marched right up to us and demanded we restrict them from doing that because it was to deep and dangerous for them. The humor in it was both kids spent the summer at swim camp and two days a week diving to the deep end of our pool playing seek and find the coins. These two water rats can swim better then me.

upthesaukee · 09-14-2004, 09:46 PM

Maybe you should have explained to the concerned one that one of the kids name is "Flipper" and the other is "Willie". that might explain the swimming capabilities.

Glad you had a good time with the "grandfishes" both in and out of the water, and you were missed at Cate Park. Maybe next year...

KBoater · 09-15-2004, 11:06 AM

Grandma might like the "grandfishes" title. Great kids. Definitely not "rats".

Bubba · 09-17-2004, 09:23 AM

You should be expressing all of your pride of the grandkids. Glad they had fun. Glad to see they wanted to have more fun. I was the same when I was spending summers growing up on the Cape. I sure they were fine and having a blast, just like I did.

As far as the other folks being concerned about your grandkids welfare, it's nice that they were paying attention. How many time have we seen kids not doing the "right" thing and walked by?? I know I have. And then complained about it later. I'm sure you were able to put them at ease. Maybe you could have introduced the kids to this concerned individual. Then have the kids find treasure for her. That would get her to see how happy and comfortable they were. (You wouldn't have to give up any of YOUR treasures.- joke WD)

It take a village to raise a child.

09-02-2004, 02:07 PM	#1
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,974 Thanks: 246 Thanked 736 Times in 438 Posts	Alton bay navigation question Just off Sandy Point, there are two markers that indicate one should not go between them. I have seem many power boats go between them and wonder if they are there solely for very deep draft vessels like the Mount and some sail boats. What is between them?

09-02-2004, 03:35 PM	#2
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	I've dove there several times It's just a big gravel mound with a flat top. The shallowest that it gets there is about 6' during normal water height and during draw down it's 4' to 5'. A powerboat can pass easily between the marker and so could I (5' draft my boat) most of the time, but I'd be very nervous, even a slow gravel grounding can hurt. I never cut the makers, you never know what’s waiting just out of sight and the marker may have been moved. As an interesting note most markers are in 14' of water, however, the marker and light at Seawall Point has a bolder 10'-12' in dia. just to the north side and most of the time it's just 2' down. When I stand on top of it in late summer the water just above my knees... I sure wouldn't want to find that one at any speed.

09-02-2004, 03:38 PM	#3
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,252 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,451 Thanked 1,349 Times in 475 Posts	Black Marker Off Treasure Island On the same note, why is the marker near Treasure Island black, not red like it should be? Am I missing something?

09-03-2004, 06:35 AM	#8
Drummer Boy Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Antique Steamboat Parade Does anyone have any information on the annual steamboat parade that occurs up in Lee's Mills / Green's Basin. It generally takes place the Sunday following the Labor Day weekend. It's a great event with about 50+ steamboats parading around this area but not well publicized.

09-03-2004, 07:25 AM	#9
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	I can't help you out with the Treasure Island marker. I've often thought about diving that spot, but for various reasons have not. We usually get sidetracked and end up diving somewhere else, someplace that may have more treasures to be found. (That's a joke; as if someone could logically predict where any good place to find treasure would be.) I assumed it was more of the granite rocks that are at Ship Island. If it is as I suspect then the chances of finding anything if interest are slim, unless you’re into fishing junk... The best treasures are in the silt on the bottom. I know my dive buddy Tom has dove there, but he's not into treasure hunting. I'll ask him what down there or maybe I'll just slip over there on Saturday and check it out myself.

09-02-2004, 10:25 PM	#7
Rinkerfam Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 268 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts	I am glad to see that someone else is curious about the black top by Treasure Isl. I've often wondered about it, but never thought to post the question here. Glad I'm not alone

09-06-2004, 11:32 AM	#10
gtxrider Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Piscataway, NJ Posts: 1,030 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 24 Posts	What gets me about passing Sandy Point is not those that go between the markers but the fools that think they can go between the Red Marker and the swim line. The come down the lake hugging the shore pass in front of Sandy Point and continue, not at headway speed, between the Red Marker and the shore. I have seen a few close calls as boats come out of the cove at Sandy Point and hang a quick left and there is a another boat flying down the bay too close to the Point.

09-06-2004, 06:46 PM	#11
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	The markers south of Rattlesmake I made the recon dive at this site last Saturday and it was just as I suspected. Rocks, rocks and more rocks, just as I surmise in my last post, it more of the same as Ship Island, just a rock pile that comes up from an other wise sandy bottom, the rocks range in size from small pieces of granite to huge boulders the size of a small car, however, most are just 2-3 feet in diameter. The pile shoals up to 5 feet just south of the marker and stays that way to just a few feet north of the Red marker with the light. There are several ridges at various depths that run N-S both to the east and the west of the pile. Most of these ridges are at least 20 -30 feet high off the bottom. Also as I predicted in my previous post there were no treasures down there either. As you may recall, I said we have thought about diving there many times but passed it up for better hunting grounds. I guess my intuition was right, I best I could find down there was; a fairly new down-rigger with S/S line strewn along the bottom for a hundred yards with the cannon ball attached, (I though about bringing it up, but what would I do with it then?) hundreds of lures and lines of all sizes, shapes and colors, three anchors (one was a 300 pound Navy style anchor that was rusted so bad it took a while of poking at it before I recognized what it was) and a flying saucer that was in pretty good shape (like the ones we used to use back in the 60's, the snow type that is). So, all in all it was a pretty boring dive... But at least now I know why, I don't want to dive there again. However, I did see lots of freshly moved rocks and several broken ones too about 8 to 10 feet down, I wondered if this was due from boats or was it from the ice sheet, perhaps a pressure ridge… Interesting Oh ya, you can cut that one too in a small powerboat, just stay clear of the lighted marker to the south. I'll stay on the preferred side though. Last edited by Winnipesaukee Divers; 09-06-2004 at 06:50 PM.

09-07-2004, 06:08 PM	#12
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,398 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	Hi W. D. Nice to meet you down at the bay a week or two ago. I think the black marker off Treasure Island that was discussed is the one that is off the east or southeast side of the island and is a fair distance from the island. I think you dove on the shoal that is between Treasure and Rattlesnake, and east of Sleepers. That black is pretty self explanatory, and has the red buoy at the other end of the shoal along with the flashing light. The black buoy "on the other side of the island" is tough to spot at night, and is not one of Bizer's waypoints on his download file, so I finally remembered to ease on up to that rascal during the day and make my own waypoint. The others are right, if you are on an east west course, and approach that marker without looking at your chart, it would appear that you should pass north of the marker which would put you between the marker and the southeast end of Treasure. I fear that would mean "can you spell lower unit gone!!!!!" (or keel in the rocks!!!!) Bottom line, GPS is great, but RTC or RTM, otherwise known as Read The Chart or Read The Map. BTW, diving that shoal north of Treasure ought to be like trying to dive on the Lady. Boats just fly through that shoal area, on plane, and really don't care how close they are to you. We have anchored out there and had double digit number of boats pass within 50-75 feet on plane, almost like we weren't there. Not to worry, we have been there three times, and never more: it was the first, last, and only time. Dive safe, and hope to see you before winter sets in.

09-08-2004, 06:31 PM	#13
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Ocuch, you really know how to hurt a guy Not only was it the most boring dive of the year, now you tell me I was in the wrong place too... Man, you're really mean... couldn't have at least said, "Thanks for the info... Now, what about the marker just south of Sleeper Island?" No, you have to rub in that I can't read either... Well, I can't bear to spend anymore time researching that marker as well. You'll just have to don the gear and check it out for yourself. All kidding aside, time is getting real short for diving this year and I have lots of things coming up before I hang up the gear for the winter. I have to make the most of it and another dive to the rock pile just to see what's down there isn’t high on my list of priorities. For example: I have two grandkids that really need to explore "Story land" this coming Saturday then it's beginner diving lessons for them on Sunday. I made the big mistake of letting the oldest one breathe off my pony tank while lead her around with the consol a couple weeks ago.... Well now, once she told her cousin what she had done, now, all I hear is; "when can I do it?" So Sunday dive buddy Paul and I will be at the sandbar leading the two mud puppies around until they run out of air. (Don’t worry, I won’t let them get below 500 PSI or deeper than I can stand) When I get really hard up for a place to dive, I make another trip out to the rock pile and check it out for you.

09-08-2004, 09:40 PM	#14
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,398 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	OOOOOOOOOPS. Thanks for the info. I figure that the area southeast of Treasure is probably like so many of the shoal areas... Pretty good pile of rocks, some of which could raise havoc with a lower unit or keel. And unlike my diving days when fishing was normally done from an anchored boat and you could find a couple of anchors every time you went diving, today they use electric troll motors, so you don't even find the anchors. Seriously, thanks for your efforts to define the shoal area north of Treasure, and I hope that the water will be clear and warm for at least another month, and the bottom filled with treasures (not the island!!!!). hope to see you again soon.

09-14-2004, 06:52 PM	#15
Winnipesaukee Divers Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Exeter, NH or @ WCYC on weekends Posts: 250 Thanks: 7 Thanked 46 Times in 28 Posts	Sunday's dive with the Mud Puppies... I suppose by now your all wondering how the diving exposition with the mud puppies (my 6 & 7 year old grand kids) went… Well, all I heard Friday and Saturday was when could we go SCUBA diving by them, never mind how much fun we were having at Story Land, diving was the big thing for this weekend. So, on Sunday dive buddy Paul came up with his dive boat and we set off for the far reaches of the big lake. After we stopped by the dive shop to top up the tank, we headed for the sand bar at Long Island for a BBQ and underwater exploration. Once lunch was over it was off to explore the three-foot depths of the sandbar. We found rocks, rock and more rocks, fishes and of course an occasional treasure or two which was brought back to the boat. After about an hour of this kind of hard core SCUBA diving we all had enough and it was time to pull up the anchor and explore more of the lake. A funny thing happen once we got back to the docks at WCYC, the kids decided they needed some more beach time since this was going to be the last time this year for them. They grab their masks and fins and headed for the beach. One thing led to another and soon they were free diving to the bottom searching for more treasures while we sat by watching them. One of our member/friends was in fear for them and couldn’t stand it any longer. He marched right up to us and demanded we restrict them from doing that because it was to deep and dangerous for them. The humor in it was both kids spent the summer at swim camp and two days a week diving to the deep end of our pool playing seek and find the coins. These two water rats can swim better then me.

09-14-2004, 09:46 PM	#16
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,547 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,398 Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts	Maybe you should have explained to the concerned one that one of the kids name is "Flipper" and the other is "Willie". that might explain the swimming capabilities. Glad you had a good time with the "grandfishes" both in and out of the water, and you were missed at Cate Park. Maybe next year...

09-15-2004, 11:06 AM	#17
KBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wolfeboro Posts: 521 Thanks: 10 Thanked 29 Times in 15 Posts	Grandma might like the "grandfishes" title. Great kids. Definitely not "rats".

09-17-2004, 09:23 AM	#18
Bubba Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Merrimack, NH & East Alton, NH Posts: 65 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Proud of Mudpuppies?? You should be expressing all of your pride of the grandkids. Glad they had fun. Glad to see they wanted to have more fun. I was the same when I was spending summers growing up on the Cape. I sure they were fine and having a blast, just like I did. As far as the other folks being concerned about your grandkids welfare, it's nice that they were paying attention. How many time have we seen kids not doing the "right" thing and walked by?? I know I have. And then complained about it later. I'm sure you were able to put them at ease. Maybe you could have introduced the kids to this concerned individual. Then have the kids find treasure for her. That would get her to see how happy and comfortable they were. (You wouldn't have to give up any of YOUR treasures.- joke WD) It take a village to raise a child.