HUB status in Moultonborough

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by jeffk

A swimming pool and gym are NOT essential services.

From the Brookline, Mass. town swimming pool ...... www.brooklinerec.com/150/Kirrane-Aquatic-Center ..... a list of fees which people PAY for swim lessons, splash 'n burn water exercise class, and pool use/laps practice.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

From the Brookline, Mass. town swimming pool ...... www.brooklinerec.com/150/Kirrane-Aquatic-Center ..... a list of fees which people PAY for swim lessons, splash 'n burn water exercise class, and pool use/laps practice.

The people of Brookline's choices doesn't make them ESSENTIAL services.

Frankly, I don't care if the town could make a lot of money by providing a pool and gym and charging money for it. There are thousands of things that people need/want/crave and, the for the vast majority of it, government should have no role in providing it.

Government should be a last resort provider, when other suppliers of the service are not possible/practical. Then the service WILL be provided, probably overpriced, with less quality, and a mismatch in the features but at least an essential service is available.

[tis]

Originally Posted by jeffk

The people of Brookline's choices doesn't make them ESSENTIAL services.

Frankly, I don't care if the town could make a lot of money by providing a pool and gym and charging money for it. There are thousands of things that people need/want/crave and, the for the vast majority of it, government should have no role in providing it.

Government should be a last resort provider, when other suppliers of the service are not possible/practical. Then the service WILL be provided, probably overpriced, with less quality, and a mismatch in the features but at least an essential service is available.

Government used to be about needs not wants-at least in our small towns.

[whalebackpoint'r]

My point exactly. The key here is 'essential services'. In this live free or die state especially, taxpayers who will never use this service would prefer not to be forced into paying for it and its upkeep. If you want less government control over your money, don't vote for more of it.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

Government used to be about needs not wants-at least in our small towns.

That changes with voter attitudes.
As we moved from agrarian, we access to the railroads - generally subsidized by the federal government... and some state... with roads that handles teams of oxen and wagons; to the industrial... think modern industrial parks with all the services; to the ''tourist'' all about recreation...

Recreation became an ''essential'' service.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

That changes with voter attitudes.
As we moved from agrarian, we access to the railroads - generally subsidized by the federal government... and some state... with roads that handles teams of oxen and wagons; to the industrial... think modern industrial parks with all the services; to the ''tourist'' all about recreation...

Recreation became an ''essential'' service.

Some voter attitudes. It's the same as with kids, some parents want schools to totally take care of their kids, not just educate them. And look where that has gotten us.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

Some voter attitudes. It's the same as with kids, some parents want schools to totally take care of their kids, not just educate them. And look where that has gotten us.

It only takes 60% of the population to not see frugality as reasoned.
I just don't think you will see Moultonborough devolve to its agrarian roots.

People love large homes and gas-powered toys.

The school education issue, according to the ConVal testimony, seems to be about State mandates.
Something that frugal legislators could change at any time... but that doesn't seem in the offering.
ConVal is a much bigger issue to Moultonborough and Alton on Winnepesaukee... Hebron and Bridgewater on Newfound; which is what stunned me seeing the movement of money toward Winnisquam - surrounding towns/Laconia not being exactly known for low tax rates. Belmont doesn't have an indoor pool... though we have pretty much everything else... and I suspect unless the movement toward homesteading becomes the major position of attitude in Belmont; we would in the not too distant future hear of a proposal.

[tis]

I was talking more about the woke issues in schools but since you mentioned state education, I always felt so sorry for poor little Freedom who was a donor town, giving money to Manchester and one of the things Manchester did with the donor town money was build a new athletic field. Freedom doesn't even have it's own school.

[John Mercier]

Woke actually references the Greatest Generation coming into adulthood.
It references Admiral Yamamoto's ''Awaken'' quote.

We use it whenever a new dominate generation will be entering adulthood and changes the political-economic-social fabric of society.

It was also used by proxy by Frank Herbert in his Dune novels to reference the awakening of the Boomer generation.

All State taxes have ''donor'' political subdivisions.
Residents of Freedom receive distributions from Meals & Room taxes collected in Manchester - more than likely.

Certain political subdivisions (towns/cities/etc) produce more of the M&R taxes, and other business taxes, in their area. But those taxes are generally redistributed using a formula that does not return the taxation to where it originated. The SPT is only different because of decision in 2011. After SPT got reinstituted - historically it had been our main State tax - the concept of ''donor'' was invoked.

I tried to change M&R to return to zip code of origin... but once the legislators had someone smarter than them realize that I was a lot smarter; they caught on that Belknap County and Rockingham would do very well compared to the current formula... while Coos would take a drubbing.
Recreation taxation not being very well understood at that time.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

The topic has to do with Moultonborough’s town meeting and the HUB, and you’re heading off the tracks now….��

[winni83]

Posted on the Town of Moultonborough Website:

"RESCHEDULED TOWN MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT 2023


Town of Moultonborough
2023 Annual Town Meeting

To the inhabitants of the Town of Moultonborough in the County of Carroll in the State of New Hampshire qualified to vote in Town affairs, are hereby notified that the Annual Town Meeting, that was rescheduled from Thursday, the 11th day of May 2023 and will be held as follows:
▪ Second Session of Annual Meeting (Transaction of All Other Business) will take place on Thursday, the 1st day of June 2023 at 6:00 P.M., at the Moultonborough School Academy, 25 Blake Road, Moultonborough, NH for voters to act upon Article 2 and the remaining articles of the Warrant.
▪ Early check-in starts at 3:30 P.M.
▪ Limited parking available at Moultonborough Academy, as availability will be for Handicap Parking. Carpooling is encouraged. Overflow parking available at Town Hall, Public Safety Building, and Function Hall (former Lions Club building). Shuttle bus service will be provided.
▪ Childcare will be provided at Moultonborough Central School.
▪ Any person with a disabling condition who would like to attend this public meeting and needs to be provided reasonable accommodations to participate please contact the Moultonborough Town Hall at 603-476-2347 (tel:603-476-2347) so accommodations
can be made."

This is crazy. Town Hall is .8 miles, Lion’s Club is 1.5 miles and Public Safety is .8 miles from the location of the Town Meeting. Shuttle Buses -- how many and what are the specific schedules??? If they try to let people claim to be handicapped who do not have a state issued handicap plate or placard there is going to be trouble. This has the potential to be more of a disaster than the comedy on May 11th. Yet another reason to vote YES on SB 2.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

The topic has to do with Moultonborough’s town meeting and the HUB, and you’re heading off the tracks now….��

Not really.
Should the ConVal lawsuit be found in the favor the 32 town/cities suing the State, the SPT would most likely be need to be expanded to deal with the hundreds of millions more needed to be raised. And the remittance of the excess funds back to the town, last done in 2011(?), would no longer be holding down the town tax rate.

The HUB expenditure would not be able to be reconsidered after the finding and facts of those trials, which could take a few years.
Voters aware of the situation may be taking that into consideration... along with items like the possible need to move the FD from mostly volunteer to full time employees.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

For now, please let us discuss Moultonborough’s town meeting and the HUB, and take on other governmental topics later. The proponents of the HUB have no interest in anything negatively impacting their extravagant plans.

[John Mercier]

I'm sure they don't.
They will keep getting the 25 signatures required to vote again and again until passage.
Any discussion here will not change that.

[lakewinnie]

I'm sorry - I just don't understand the point of some people's posts in this thread.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by lakewinnie

I'm sorry - I just don't understand the point of some people's posts in this thread.

I hear you….have you ever had someone show up and not realize they weren’t invited to the party?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Post #415 sounds awfully snarky. My apologies….my sweet and docile temperament took a leave of absence for a while. Please blame it on the Proponents of the HUB!
Sue

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Post #415 sounds awfully snarky. My apologies….my sweet and docile temperament took a leave of absence for a while. Please blame it on the Proponents of the HUB!
Sue

Not a bit snarky. If you don't want everybody to see everything, you hang it between sheets on the clothesline. In this case, perhaps this forum is the wrong place to post Moultonborough's unmentionable's and the voters in Moultonborough should start a closed group on FB?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

We noticed that the powers in charge of the rescheduled town meeting on June 1
want the parking areas near the main entrance to the academy to be for people with physical limitations, which is a fine plan IF ENTITLED PEOPLE don’t abuse the privilege….and they will abuse it unless the area is patrolled and the parking restrictions enforced. I am skeptical about the plan….the honor system is not for everyone, if you get my drift. Anyhow, hopefully the meeting will actually take place, the ballots counted honestly, and the HUB goes down to defeat, with SB2 in the WIN column. 🤞

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by lakewinnie

I'm sorry - I just don't understand the point of some people's posts in this thread.

People that are not native to NH or went through school here generally don't understand our system of governance... especially at a local level.

Since it only takes 25 registered voters to petition the article. It can appear each and every time town meeting is held.

Should the article fail (bonds need 60% of the votes cast to pass), later in the meeting, the article can be brought back by reconsideration.

Because of this many times a voter will motion to restrict reconsideration... achieve a second... and sometimes win the vote (only 50% is necessary for that). But should enough voters leave, a proponent can motion to reconsider... enough votes and it goes to an adjourned session scheduled at least seven days later.

Should that happen, they will go over it again trying to gain the necessary majority of votes.

They can also go the route of capitalizing a special fund.
That would go through pretty much the same process but have a lower threshold for advancement.

So there really is no end to the saga. It is just part of living in NH. Those of us born and raised here have just gotten more used to it.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

From the Brookline, Mass. town swimming pool ...... www.brooklinerec.com/150/Kirrane-Aquatic-Center ..... a list of fees which people PAY for swim lessons, splash 'n burn water exercise class, and pool use/laps practice.

The population of Brookline is 60,000, and they have no lake. This makes it quite reasonable to have a public swimming pool

[phoenix]

FLL one of your craziest posts. Look if 800 people show up 480 need to vote yes. Make sure anyone who is a no shows up.