Dismal Start

vmartino26 · 06-29-2009, 07:54 PM

What a dismal way to kick off the July 4th week. The forecast for almost the entire week is rain rain rain. We were up for bike week, and the Laconia area took on a new name -- Rainconia. That was a pretty bad week. Channel 9 just reported Manchester has had rain 18 out of the last 21 days. This just can't be good for the businesses up here, especially the new businesses trying to get off the ground. I hope they all manage to hang in there and get through the week with the hope that the rest of the summer brings us some warmth and sunshine. And strong profits. And we also bid a sad farwell to Basket World which closed its doors for the last time Sunday. We've been coming up to the Lake region the past 35 years, and BW was always the one constant. We wish them well in all future endeavors. Here's to the Sun!

wifi · 06-30-2009, 01:51 AM

I didn't know about Basket World closing, how dismal. I remember, when I was a kid, in the stores early days, they used to have the children in the family on LNH doing their advertising. It was unique.

SteveA · 06-30-2009, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vmartino26

What a dismal way to kick off the July 4th week. The forecast for almost the entire week is rain rain rain.

State needs a new motto... "Live Free and Dry"

As a public service, I will commit to publish my vacation time here on Winni.com, far enough in advance that all the rest of you fine folks can avoid those dates.

Dave R · 06-30-2009, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vmartino26

Channel 9 just reported Manchester has had rain 18 out of the last 21 days.

I usually have REALLY good luck with weather. For instance, I planted 60 lbs of grass seed, 23 days ago. I only watered it once and it looks beautiful right now. I will be on vacation from July 25 through August 9. Plan your vacations around the great two weeks+ of weather we'll be having while I'm on vacation.

jerseyonbear · 06-30-2009, 06:51 AM

I hope by those dates the weather takes a real nice turn. Used to be the best 2 weeks of the summer. New Jersey has had sun now for two days sending it north.

Paugus Bay Resident · 06-30-2009, 07:03 AM

I'm down in Austin, and they reported that Lake Travis is 28 feet below normal June levels due to drought conditions. Ironic

Winni-Retired · 06-30-2009, 09:05 AM

They will reopen as a smaller company

http://www.basketworldnh.com/

fatlazyless · 06-30-2009, 09:30 AM

Just heard of a waterfront rental cancellation due to the rain over in Moultonborough. To help pay the property taxes, quite a few homeowners have found it helpfull to rent out their vacation property on a weekly basis, so predictions of a total week of rain probably cannot be a good thing for the rental biz.

12 straight days of rain stretching across the last of June, and into July of 1973.......do you remember?

...rain, rain, go away...and come again ....in April....

ClosetExtrovert · 06-30-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Just heard of a waterfront rental cancellation due to the rain over in Moultonborough. To help pay the property taxes, quite a few homeowners have found it helpfull to rent out their vacation property on a weekly basis, so predictions of a total week of rain probably cannot be a good thing for the rental biz.

12 straight days of rain stretching across the last of June, and into July of 1973.......do you remember?

...rain, rain, go away...and come again ....in April....

So...which side of the lake IS the WalMart side?

fatlazyless · 06-30-2009, 03:38 PM

And, which side of the lake is the Walmart side? This refers to the 'before' residential structures that exist on the waterfront, as in before they get torn down and replaced by a much more substantial structure. According to any Winnipesaukee town's individual address assessment, the value of a waterfront lot can be as much as 90% land value, and 10% house value.

It would be difficult to write up a dictionary definition describing the Walmart side of the lake, but when you see a waterfront house that is over on the 'Walmart side of the lake,' you'll recognize it right away.

Frequently, a real estate listing of a house for sale on the Walmart side will be showing a photo of the view and the dock and will exclude the existing house from the photo.

If you live on the Walmart side, then you are probably sweat'n your yearly property taxes of 6-12k/year. If you live on the beautifull, non-Walmart side, you probably think that the relatively high property taxes are terrific, because along with them, there is no NH personal income tax or any NH capital gains tax.

vmartino26 · 06-30-2009, 07:06 PM

Believe it or not we actually found some sun today! We drove up 25 north to 16 North over to North Conway, and the sun was shining brightly. After we had lunch at Horsefeather's -- a nice place by the way -- we headed over to 302 and Mt. Washington. The weather was beautiful -- nothing but sun and the temp around 75. We could actually see the base station on Mt. Washington clear as a bell. We continued over to Cannon Mountain, and sure enough the base station was clearly visible and the sun was shining. Then heading south on 93, it wasn't until we got to the Plymouth area that the clouds rolled back in, and by the time we got back to Weirs Beach on 3 south the doom and gloom had set in. But we still had some pizza over on the boardwalk before heading home. We need some of that sun to shine over the Weirs area. But believe it or not, the sun's still out there!

SIKSUKR · 07-01-2009, 07:35 AM

Not to be a wise guy but the base stations should be very visible being that they are at the base of the mountain.I'm guessing you meant the summit buildings?

ClosetExtrovert · 07-01-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

And, which side of the lake is the Walmart side? This refers to the 'before' residential structures that exist on the waterfront, as in before they get torn down and replaced by a much more substantial structure. According to any Winnipesaukee town's individual address assessment, the value of a waterfront lot can be as much as 90% land value, and 10% house value.

It would be difficult to write up a dictionary definition describing the Walmart side of the lake, but when you see a waterfront house that is over on the 'Walmart side of the lake,' you'll recognize it right away.

Frequently, a real estate listing of a house for sale on the Walmart side will be showing a photo of the view and the dock and will exclude the existing house from the photo.

If you live on the Walmart side, then you are probably sweat'n your yearly property taxes of 6-12k/year. If you live on the beautifull, non-Walmart side, you probably think that the relatively high property taxes are terrific, because along with them, there is no NH personal income tax or any NH capital gains tax.

Oh, you mean the McMansions on the lakefront vs the quaint rustic cabins from the 50's and 60's. Gotcha. I'm with the Walmart side, too, then. 6 to 12 is steep! How do retirees afford that?
I live in NJ and my property taxes are rediculous, too. I have a 3 bedroom split and we're paying 8k in property taxes along with state income tax and sales tax. For this we get the privledge of living in our home, paying our mortgage and, sometimes, garbage collection. I have no idea how young people will ever be able to afford a home here.

Ropetow · 07-01-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClosetExtrovert

I live in NJ and my property taxes are rediculous, too. I have a 3 bedroom split and we're paying 8k in property taxes along with state income tax and sales tax. For this we get the privledge of living in our home, paying our mortgage and, sometimes, garbage collection.

Be forewarned, those among us who lust for NH to institute a sales and/or income tax in the belief that property taxes will go down!

vmartino26 · 07-01-2009, 02:31 PM

You're right. The summit buildings. All this rain is starting to make my brain a little fuzzy.

sa meredith · 07-02-2009, 08:33 AM

Really, this is foolish. How much rain can we possibly get? And, if I recall correctly, wasn't June 2008 also a complete washout?
If this was your vaca week (week of 6/27 thru 7/5), what a shame. Rain, and lots of it, every single day. As I type this (Ma/NH border) it is pouring out. Coming down in buckets.
Now, we are into July, and it seems every year, as soon as the calendar hits August, the weather cools off a lot. So our summer is now the next four weeks.
Believe me, I am in no way, shape, or form an "Al Gore...The Planet Has a Fever" type guy.
But to not recognize severe changes to our weather patterns over the past 10/15 years would be simply naive.
Didn't it used to warm and sunny in June?
Didn't we used to have heat waves in August?
When did it ever rain 20 days running?
I remember a Christmas not too long ago that the temp pushed 60ish.
Anyway, here it is July 2nd, and we have used the boat exactly twice. And more rain for the next few days.
Hoping for better days week of 7/11 thru 18...my vaca week. Time will tell.

SIKSUKR · 07-02-2009, 08:56 AM

The planet temps have altered far more severe(ice age) both ways for eons.Our miniscule snapshot of time here on earth cannot begin to measure weather occilations and patterns since we have only been measuring for 120 years.The weather patterns would and will continue to change whether man is here or not until our sun consumes itself like all of the billions of solar systems have and continue to do.Change has happened since way before our planets were formed and will continue till it's all sucked in to it's own blackhole.One needs to put these things into perspective timewise when talking about weather history.When you look at some stars they don't even exist because its taken that long for the light to reach us.Billions of light years away.(a billion years traveling at the speed of light.yikes)How's that for some positive thought provoking banter on another gloomy and cold day here in NE.Take that Al Gore

HAHLY · 07-02-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

When you look at some stars they don't even exist because its taken that long for the light to reach us.Billions of light years away.(a billion years traveling at the speed of light.yikes)

Whoa Dude, pass the Dutchie on the left hand side. I could use some of that right about now.

sa meredith · 07-02-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAHLY

Whoa Dude, pass the Dutchie on the left hand side. I could use some of that right about now.

Great post! Made me laugh.
I'll get in that line....

hazelnut · 07-02-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

The planet temps have altered far more severe(ice age) both ways for eons.Our miniscule snapshot of time here on earth cannot begin to measure weather occilations and patterns since we have only been measuring for 120 years.The weather patterns would and will continue to change whether man is here or not until our sun consumes itself like all of the billions of solar systems have and continue to do.Change has happened since way before our planets were formed and will continue till it's all sucked in to it's own blackhole.One needs to put these things into perspective timewise when talking about weather history.When you look at some stars they don't even exist because its taken that long for the light to reach us.Billions of light years away.(a billion years traveling at the speed of light.yikes)How's that for some positive thought provoking banter on another gloomy and cold day here in NE.Take that Al Gore

I second that emotion!!!!

However,
WOULD THE RAIN PLEASE STOP NOW!!!

:f ire:

:fir e:

E- NOUGH WITH THE RAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chipj29 · 07-02-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

The planet temps have altered far more severe(ice age) both ways for eons.Our miniscule snapshot of time here on earth cannot begin to measure weather occilations and patterns since we have only been measuring for 120 years.The weather patterns would and will continue to change whether man is here or not until our sun consumes itself like all of the billions of solar systems have and continue to do.Change has happened since way before our planets were formed and will continue till it's all sucked in to it's own blackhole.One needs to put these things into perspective timewise when talking about weather history.When you look at some stars they don't even exist because its taken that long for the light to reach us.Billions of light years away.(a billion years traveling at the speed of light.yikes)How's that for some positive thought provoking banter on another gloomy and cold day here in NE.Take that Al Gore

I am in full agreement with SS on this one.

People are usually pretty tolerant of rainy periods up our way. However, this rainy period has been so long and unforgiving, people are on the edge. I am a guy who loves weather, all kinds of it. And even I am on the verge of going postal. Anyone got any goats I can rent to "mow" my backyard?

LadyJane · 07-02-2009, 07:50 PM

There was a "year without a summer" in New England's history...does anyone know when that was?
Looking at the web cams, seeing the splats of rain on the lens, grey clouds and chilly temps, etc. But I have already changed reservations twice....that's it, I'm coming up next week, rain or no rain. It will still be a treat and a pleasure to be there.

mg2107 · 07-02-2009, 08:14 PM

It was in the early 1800s after a huge volcanic eruptions particles blocked out much sunlight lowering temps so a frost occured every month during spring and summer. I believe if memory serves it was 1815 and the volcano was in Indonesia.

eillac@dow · 07-03-2009, 07:59 AM

Ok People......it is the Power of Positive Thinking.

I am heading up to the lake. Have not been there since Memorial Day (I know...shame on me!) My husband has been there a few more times than me. But anyway....I DO think this weekend will be a good one. Yes, a shower or two, but other than that, we are in for a good one. Sun, swimming, boating and everything that goes along with it. I am SOOOO done with being down from the weather. Are'nt you.

So remember....Positive Weather Thoughts Only!

Misty Blue · 07-03-2009, 04:06 PM

It's 1645 and I'm at work in Tamworth. The clouds over Ossipee are getting big. It is starting to rain again. Woa.....Wait a minute....

Holy Schlitzmalt! It's...It's !!!

For all that is holy and mighty...It's raining !!!!

The system is heading south so Quick...turn off your bulge pump and pull the canvas! Fill your bilge with a gift from God!!!

Thank you eillac!!! Your positive attitude has given us a miracle!

Misty Blue

ike · 07-03-2009, 04:25 PM

Mount Tambora erupted in 1815 and 1816 bwas the year without the summer in Northern Europe and New England.

LadyJane · 07-03-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ike

Mount Tambora erupted in 1815 and 1816 bwas the year without the summer in Northern Europe and New England.

thanks. That must have been horrible.
Well, I just looked at the web cams and I saw a little blue sky and a bit of SUNSHINE. So I am heading up Monday morning along with my positive attitude. Can't wait....yay !!!!

nj2nh · 07-07-2009, 06:36 PM

I am one of those slightly insane scrapbookers. We had so much rain last summer during our two weeks there that I had to put it in the scrapbook. We simply ran out of things to do which is a near disaster when you have a bunch of teenagers vacationing with you.

I am attaching the layout and praying for no repeat come July 25th to August 9th!

nj2nh

mg2107 · 07-07-2009, 08:35 PM

I'm afraid this summer is toast and not the warm variety.

trfour · 07-08-2009, 09:40 AM

Hey, neat pics nj2nh !!
Best of luck to you this year!

Sal · 07-08-2009, 02:33 PM

Chesk this out ... especially the last paragraph:

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/9345.html

06-29-2009, 07:54 PM	#1
vmartino26 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 30 Times in 5 Posts	Dismal Start What a dismal way to kick off the July 4th week. The forecast for almost the entire week is rain rain rain. We were up for bike week, and the Laconia area took on a new name -- Rainconia. That was a pretty bad week. Channel 9 just reported Manchester has had rain 18 out of the last 21 days. This just can't be good for the businesses up here, especially the new businesses trying to get off the ground. I hope they all manage to hang in there and get through the week with the hope that the rest of the summer brings us some warmth and sunshine. And strong profits. And we also bid a sad farwell to Basket World which closed its doors for the last time Sunday. We've been coming up to the Lake region the past 35 years, and BW was always the one constant. We wish them well in all future endeavors. Here's to the Sun!

06-30-2009, 01:51 AM	#2
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	B-w I didn't know about Basket World closing, how dismal. I remember, when I was a kid, in the stores early days, they used to have the children in the family on LNH doing their advertising. It was unique.

06-30-2009, 06:51 AM	#5
jerseyonbear Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 97 Thanks: 94 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Joining You I hope by those dates the weather takes a real nice turn. Used to be the best 2 weeks of the summer. New Jersey has had sun now for two days sending it north.

06-30-2009, 09:05 AM	#7
Winni-Retired Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SE Mass / Lake Posts: 125 Thanks: 93 Thanked 101 Times in 21 Posts	Basket World They will reopen as a smaller company http://www.basketworldnh.com/

06-30-2009, 09:30 AM	#8
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Just heard of a waterfront rental cancellation due to the rain over in Moultonborough. To help pay the property taxes, quite a few homeowners have found it helpfull to rent out their vacation property on a weekly basis, so predictions of a total week of rain probably cannot be a good thing for the rental biz. 12 straight days of rain stretching across the last of June, and into July of 1973.......do you remember? ...rain, rain, go away...and come again ....in April.... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

06-30-2009, 07:03 AM	#6
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 92 Times in 51 Posts	I'm down in Austin, and they reported that Lake Travis is 28 feet below normal June levels due to drought conditions. Ironic

06-30-2009, 03:38 PM	#10
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,525 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	And, which side of the lake is the Walmart side? This refers to the 'before' residential structures that exist on the waterfront, as in before they get torn down and replaced by a much more substantial structure. According to any Winnipesaukee town's individual address assessment, the value of a waterfront lot can be as much as 90% land value, and 10% house value. It would be difficult to write up a dictionary definition describing the Walmart side of the lake, but when you see a waterfront house that is over on the 'Walmart side of the lake,' you'll recognize it right away. Frequently, a real estate listing of a house for sale on the Walmart side will be showing a photo of the view and the dock and will exclude the existing house from the photo. If you live on the Walmart side, then you are probably sweat'n your yearly property taxes of 6-12k/year. If you live on the beautifull, non-Walmart side, you probably think that the relatively high property taxes are terrific, because along with them, there is no NH personal income tax or any NH capital gains tax. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

06-30-2009, 07:06 PM	#11
vmartino26 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 30 Times in 5 Posts	Believe it or not we actually found some sun today! We drove up 25 north to 16 North over to North Conway, and the sun was shining brightly. After we had lunch at Horsefeather's -- a nice place by the way -- we headed over to 302 and Mt. Washington. The weather was beautiful -- nothing but sun and the temp around 75. We could actually see the base station on Mt. Washington clear as a bell. We continued over to Cannon Mountain, and sure enough the base station was clearly visible and the sun was shining. Then heading south on 93, it wasn't until we got to the Plymouth area that the clouds rolled back in, and by the time we got back to Weirs Beach on 3 south the doom and gloom had set in. But we still had some pizza over on the boardwalk before heading home. We need some of that sun to shine over the Weirs area. But believe it or not, the sun's still out there!

07-01-2009, 07:35 AM	#12
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Not to be a wise guy but the base stations should be very visible being that they are at the base of the mountain.I'm guessing you meant the summit buildings? __________________ SIKSUKR

07-01-2009, 02:31 PM	#15
vmartino26 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 30 Times in 5 Posts	You're right. The summit buildings. All this rain is starting to make my brain a little fuzzy.

07-02-2009, 08:33 AM	#16
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	Just plain foolish Really, this is foolish. How much rain can we possibly get? And, if I recall correctly, wasn't June 2008 also a complete washout? If this was your vaca week (week of 6/27 thru 7/5), what a shame. Rain, and lots of it, every single day. As I type this (Ma/NH border) it is pouring out. Coming down in buckets. Now, we are into July, and it seems every year, as soon as the calendar hits August, the weather cools off a lot. So our summer is now the next four weeks. Believe me, I am in no way, shape, or form an "Al Gore...The Planet Has a Fever" type guy. But to not recognize severe changes to our weather patterns over the past 10/15 years would be simply naive. Didn't it used to warm and sunny in June? Didn't we used to have heat waves in August? When did it ever rain 20 days running? I remember a Christmas not too long ago that the temp pushed 60ish. Anyway, here it is July 2nd, and we have used the boat exactly twice. And more rain for the next few days. Hoping for better days week of 7/11 thru 18...my vaca week. Time will tell. Last edited by sa meredith; 07-02-2009 at 10:37 AM.

07-02-2009, 08:56 AM	#17
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	The planet temps have altered far more severe(ice age) both ways for eons.Our miniscule snapshot of time here on earth cannot begin to measure weather occilations and patterns since we have only been measuring for 120 years.The weather patterns would and will continue to change whether man is here or not until our sun consumes itself like all of the billions of solar systems have and continue to do.Change has happened since way before our planets were formed and will continue till it's all sucked in to it's own blackhole.One needs to put these things into perspective timewise when talking about weather history.When you look at some stars they don't even exist because its taken that long for the light to reach us.Billions of light years away.(a billion years traveling at the speed of light.yikes)How's that for some positive thought provoking banter on another gloomy and cold day here in NE.Take that Al Gore __________________ SIKSUKR

07-02-2009, 07:50 PM	#22
LadyJane Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: northern Ct. Posts: 335 Thanks: 129 Thanked 50 Times in 33 Posts	year without a summer?? There was a "year without a summer" in New England's history...does anyone know when that was? Looking at the web cams, seeing the splats of rain on the lens, grey clouds and chilly temps, etc. But I have already changed reservations twice....that's it, I'm coming up next week, rain or no rain. It will still be a treat and a pleasure to be there.

07-02-2009, 08:14 PM	#23
mg2107 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	It was in the early 1800s after a huge volcanic eruptions particles blocked out much sunlight lowering temps so a frost occured every month during spring and summer. I believe if memory serves it was 1815 and the volcano was in Indonesia.

07-03-2009, 07:59 AM	#24
eillac@dow Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dow Island & Weymouth, MA Posts: 365 Thanks: 295 Thanked 94 Times in 48 Posts	Ok People......it is the Power of Positive Thinking. I am heading up to the lake. Have not been there since Memorial Day (I know...shame on me!) My husband has been there a few more times than me. But anyway....I DO think this weekend will be a good one. Yes, a shower or two, but other than that, we are in for a good one. Sun, swimming, boating and everything that goes along with it. I am SOOOO done with being down from the weather. Are'nt you. So remember....Positive Weather Thoughts Only!

07-03-2009, 04:06 PM	#25
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Sorry eillac... It's 1645 and I'm at work in Tamworth. The clouds over Ossipee are getting big. It is starting to rain again. Woa.....Wait a minute.... Holy Schlitzmalt! It's...It's !!! For all that is holy and mighty...It's raining !!!! The system is heading south so Quick...turn off your bulge pump and pull the canvas! Fill your bilge with a gift from God!!! Thank you eillac!!! Your positive attitude has given us a miracle! Misty Blue

07-03-2009, 04:25 PM	#26
ike Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 15 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mount Tambora erupted in 1815 and 1816 bwas the year without the summer in Northern Europe and New England.

07-07-2009, 06:36 PM	#28
nj2nh Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 518 Thanks: 62 Thanked 42 Times in 23 Posts	I am one of those slightly insane scrapbookers. We had so much rain last summer during our two weeks there that I had to put it in the scrapbook. We simply ran out of things to do which is a near disaster when you have a bunch of teenagers vacationing with you. I am attaching the layout and praying for no repeat come July 25th to August 9th! nj2nh Attached Images __________________

07-07-2009, 08:35 PM	#29
mg2107 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	I'm afraid this summer is toast and not the warm variety.

07-08-2009, 09:40 AM	#30
trfour Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lakes, Central NH. and Dallas/Fort Worth TX. Posts: 3,694 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 3,069 Thanked 472 Times in 236 Posts	Hey, neat pics nj2nh !! Best of luck to you this year! __________________ *trfour* Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html

07-08-2009, 02:33 PM	#31
Sal Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 311 Thanks: 103 Thanked 169 Times in 53 Posts	Chesk this out ... especially the last paragraph: http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/9345.html