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Old 08-03-2022, 12:51 PM   #1
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Default A tale of two cities

Laconia PO this am....the 2 pictures are about 40 feet apart.

I don't have an answer....one gentleman I talked with grew up in Laconia and worked at a large marina for years... probably on some of our boats.

I can't get to indifference, I usually at least attempt to buy a meal. The problem is bigger than me and not a priority in NH. Spend a summer day on Main St. in Concord.
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Old 08-03-2022, 01:29 PM   #2
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So very sad.
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Old 08-03-2022, 02:01 PM   #3
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If services are provided to the homeless the homeless will come.

Am I assuming correctly that the second photo shows a motor home?

I wonder what life decisions were made by the guy on the curb and the owner of the camper that brought them to this status.
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Old 08-03-2022, 02:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
If services are provided to the homeless the homeless will come.

Am I assuming correctly that the second photo shows a motor home?

I wonder what life decisions were made by the guy on the curb and the owner of the camper that brought them to this status.
Absolutely. As many others have said. The city makes it very comfortable to be homeless in Laconia. Individuals like the Mayor who reminds everyone it’s not illegal to be homeless. With that said, law enforcement needs to be task to just move them along.


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Old 08-03-2022, 02:41 PM   #5
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Default Motorhome

Yes, generator running, not too hot and not too cold...and not spending money on a campsite like a "good" tourist.

I talked to a large marine contractor...he said he was motivated because he wanted what the rich kids had and he worked his tail off to get it.

Many lake properties island or mainland are in trusts established 50 years ago. Many beautiful boats at marinas are also paid by trusts set up 2 generations ago.
You don't get to pick your family but many LAKELIFE benefactors are here by the decisions of grandparents.
Just look at a Gilford tax map.

We are not a classless society, even if we have no "class".

Decisions may be made by illness, accidents, addiction, unemployment, bad timing, bad luck, and bad choices, acquaintances and decisions. Sometimes one event can be life changing.

I'm saying maybe this individual, and many others like him don't "deserve" this place to sleep.

Complicated discussion.....not preaching just showing the extremes at hand in the area.

I agree it's sad any way you look at it.
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Old 08-03-2022, 02:42 PM   #6
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If services are provided to the homeless the homeless will come. . . . I wonder what life decisions were made by the guy on the curb and the owner of the camper that brought them to this status.
We have to imagine beyond what we think we see on the street. Many homeless people have some form of mental illness, which can also make them distrust doctors, medication, and government services.

I had a sad experience with this once. I saw a young man sitting on the sidewalk in front of Staples in Concord. He was dirty and unkempt and very thin. Dozens of people were walking by him without stopping. I did too, initially. When I passed by Staples again 30 minutes later, he was still sitting there. I stopped and asked him if he was OK. When he answered, his voice was so weak that I couldn't hear him and I had to kneel down next to him. He said he was hungry. His last meal was several days ago. I could tell from his speech ("word salad") that he had schizophrenia and was not medicated. I took him to Market Basket to get him some food. He was so weak from hunger that he walked very slowly. I asked a clerk at Market Basket if they would donate some food. They would not, so I paid for it myself. I bought as much as I thought he could carry. We sat at the picnic table behind Staples and he wolfed the food down ravenously.

About 50% of what this young man said did make sense. He talked about the abuse he had suffered in hospitals and from the police. I was unable to persuade him to go to a shelter or the nearby food kitchen, so strong was his distrust of institutions. He said he was sleeping in a nearby field. What struck me the most was his extreme gratitude for my help. He thanked me over and over again. It was heartbreaking to have to leave him there alone and without help. I didn't call the police because I knew that would only add to his suffering.

Schizophrenia is a biological brain disorder that causes paranoia, delusions, etc. It is not due to bad life decisions. People in our area should be familiar with the story of the 50-year-old schizophrenic woman, Linda Bishop, who was released from the state hospital in Concord with no plan for support---just put out on the street. She took refuge in an abandoned farmhouse on Mountain Road in the winter and slowly died of starvation over a period of weeks after subsisting for a while on apples she picked from a tree. The film about her is called God Knows Where I Am. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/god-knows-where-i-am/about/

If you watch that film you may go away with a different view of people you see on the street, and of our society. The difference between the young man at Staples and Linda Bishop on the one hand and you and me on the other hand is genetic, not moral. Truly, there but for the grace of God go you or I. Please consider stopping the next time you see someone like this. I know the hesitation of not wanting to give money to a drug addict or alcoholic, but we can ask if we can help in some other way, or at least acknowledge these people as fellow humans by looking them in the eye and saying hello. Don't take your cue from the people passing by them. Take your cue from what you would feel in their place and what you would want passersby to do.

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Old 08-03-2022, 02:55 PM   #7
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To digress for a moment off topic - the motorhome looks more like a tour bus to me. Possibly they have permission and it is for whatever show is going on at the BNHP at the moment... Maybe I'm showing my age regarding concerts and tour buses...
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Old 08-03-2022, 03:03 PM   #8
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I agree with 8gv. Over the past 10 years, the City of Laconia has made a significant investment in Section 8 housing and rehab facilities. With this type of investment, who do you think we are going to attract? Nice families who are looking for good paying jobs? No, drug addicts and recovering drug addicts who need to be housed.

We should first define the problem. In my opinion, the problem does not appear to be homelessness, but instead mental illness and addiction. For every single mother of three whose spouse has left her, there are hundreds or thousands of mentally ill, drug addled individuals who have chosen to live life outside of societal norms. I know people who are in between homes/apartments. They make it work because they are not mentally ill or addicted to drugs. They stay with a relative, purchase a mobile home, etc. They haven't alienated everyone in their lives so even though they are in a tough spot they can get through it. The government cannot solve this problem. In fact, the government has made it worse.

Ever since the implementation of the Great Society, programs designed to help people have hurt people. With these programs, we have systematically dismantled the structure that makes society successful -- a strong family support structure, a strong faith community, and a strong local community. Government programs and policies have weakened these critical institutions.
As individuals, we are each responsible for the decisions we make. Unfortunately, we tolerate this abhorrent behavior. We shouldn't be surprised that we are seeing more of it. In fact, with the free-flow of deadly drugs over our open border, I guarantee it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

I disagree with the notion that wealth on the lake is inherited. 90% of all millionaires earned it without inheriting anything.
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Old 08-03-2022, 03:47 PM   #9
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I think the assumption that the RV in the photo is a resident or at least a seasonal person is incorrect.

It is more likey that is belongs to talent that is either preforming at the Colonial Thearte or the Meadowbrook.

Yes there is a homeless issue in Laconia, the city recently received a 150k grant from the fedreral goverment and blew through it in 2 weeks
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Old 08-03-2022, 06:40 PM   #10
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Am I correct in my recollection that many people with mental illness were previously cared for in institutions?

My understanding is that society determined the "warehousing" of the mentally ill was cruel and the practice all but ceased.

Unfortunately for some, it is too difficult to function well enough to stay off the streets.

Being able to get along with employers, customers, friends and family can go a long way for someone who has has some bad luck.

Not getting along leads to homelessness.

It is in fact a complicated and sad issue.
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Old 08-03-2022, 07:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowtorman View Post
Yes, generator running, not too hot and not too cold...and not spending money on a campsite like a "good" tourist.

I talked to a large marine contractor...he said he was motivated because he wanted what the rich kids had and he worked his tail off to get it.

Many lake properties island or mainland are in trusts established 50 years ago. Many beautiful boats at marinas are also paid by trusts set up 2 generations ago.
You don't get to pick your family but many LAKELIFE benefactors are here by the decisions of grandparents.
Just look at a Gilford tax map.

We are not a classless society, even if we have no "class".

Decisions may be made by illness, accidents, addiction, unemployment, bad timing, bad luck, and bad choices, acquaintances and decisions. Sometimes one event can be life changing.

I'm saying maybe this individual, and many others like him don't "deserve" this place to sleep.

Complicated discussion.....not preaching just showing the extremes at hand in the area.

I agree it's sad any way you look at it.
Well said. One other issue is that a huge number of homeless and underfed people are kids.

I don't pretend to know the answer here, but your point about two cities is especially jarring. We have hungry kids just a mile or two from "toys" (second homes) that are worth $1MM+
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Old 08-03-2022, 07:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mowtorman View Post
Yes, generator running, not too hot and not too cold...and not spending money on a campsite like a "good" tourist.

I talked to a large marine contractor...he said he was motivated because he wanted what the rich kids had and he worked his tail off to get it.

Many lake properties island or mainland are in trusts established 50 years ago. Many beautiful boats at marinas are also paid by trusts set up 2 generations ago.

You don't get to pick your family but many LAKELIFE benefactors are here by the decisions of grandparents.

Just look at a Gilford tax map.

We are not a classless society, even if we have no "class".

Decisions may be made by illness, accidents, addiction, unemployment, bad timing, bad luck, and bad choices, acquaintances and decisions. Sometimes one event can be life changing.

I'm saying maybe this individual, and many others like him don't "deserve" this place to sleep.

Complicated discussion.....not preaching just showing the extremes at hand in the area.

I agree it's sad any way you look at it.
Way out of line.

You have no idea who owns this RV and like I said above it’s more than likely someone performing at a local venue.

Many lake island and mainland properties are in trusts established 50 years ago? Instead of throwing assumptions out produce real data before casting stones. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes.

There are many owners here that have worked hard all there lives to attain what they have achieved.


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Old 08-03-2022, 07:50 PM   #13
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Major and Sailin’s posts are very reasoned and thoughtful and accurate. Bring back sanitaria and help the mental ill people instead of dumping them. On a related note, mental infirmities aside, we are not supposed to be a classless society. That is an impossibility. “All men are created equal” referred to equality under the law, not in society.


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Old 08-03-2022, 08:58 PM   #14
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Default Public record

Since when are public records out of line. See for yourself...bring up the Gilford tax map and see how many properties are owned by a trust. I know 3rd generation Islanders staying on family trust properties on Pine, near Stonedam, Bear Island and one of the mile islands. Look on a tax map, I don't need to share their specifics. Go beach your boat on the beautiful beach of Norway Point which has been in a trust since the early 60s....see how long you stay there. Why do you think there are no houses yet?

Allman Brothers......all talkin 'bout stuff that they don't know.

Do you think maybe the high end motor coach might ;have a lounger or fold out cot they might have shared? Point is 2 different worlds 40 feet apart...not whether the motorhome was parked illegally. There's plenty of people in luxury coaches that spend the night in parking lots not camping facilities.

They probably didn't notice him asleep at 9 30....feet off the curb head on the asphalt. Fast asleep.... didn't budge when my bike passed or the truck parked next to him. All I could see for possessions was a pack of cigarettes. Every day "unhoused" people congregate by the river between the Post office and Laconia city hall. Look for blue tarps along the Merrimack.....the state calls the problem a "tsunami". It's everywhere.

This forum represents a high percentage of wealthy and privileged people. Imagine the good that could be done if collectively if it was a priority? Would anyone pay $10 a year to be on the forum if the $ went back into lake protection or other hot topics....gun rights...school Safety... wildlife and conservation? Just saying.

BTW... when the police "move them along" where is it that "they" are being marched off to?

It's like WAM if you don't see or believe it's a problem it's not a problem. It's the man's fault as much as anyone who stumbled in life right? No one can teach compassion people either have it or they don't.

We had a neighbor...huge sailor. Quit his big job in March...moved to the lake in April. Had a massive stroke in May and the property went on the market in June. He came back a couple of times with an aide and a wheelchair, couldn't make it to the dock.

Point is..... enjoy your good fortune while you can...you are not far from the fringe at any time.
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Old 08-03-2022, 09:04 PM   #15
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The homeless issue is beyond complex....

IMHO, approximately 20% of the homeless population is homeless due to circumstances beyond their control... lost job, divorce, domestic violence etc. These are the easiest ones to help, they usually want to work & be productive members of society. They miss what they had and are grateful for help. Get them some housing, get them settled and on their feet with a decent job or job training and they are usually good to go.

The larger percentage of homeless suffer from both mental illness AND addiction, be it drugs or alcohol or both. These are the ones who are close to impossible to help. Bottom line is they usually don't want any help because help usually comes with rules like sobriety. Currently there is no solution to help these people until they actually want to get clean and want the help.

The Isaiah 61 Cafe is a wet shelter that does not require sobriety to stay there or use the facilities. The other shelters in Laconia require sobriety as a prerequisite to stay.

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Old 08-03-2022, 09:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowtorman View Post
Since when are public records out of line. See for yourself...bring up the Gilford tax map and see how many properties are owned by a trust. I know 3rd generation Islanders staying on family trust properties on Pine, near Stonedam, Bear Island and one of the mile islands. Look on a tax map, I don't need to share their specifics. Go beach your boat on the beautiful beach of Norway Point which has been in a trust since the early 60s....see how long you stay there. Why do you think there are no houses yet?

Allman Brothers......all talkin 'bout stuff that they don't know.

Do you think maybe the high end motor coach might ;have a lounger or fold out cot they might have shared? Point is 2 different worlds 40 feet apart...not whether the motorhome was parked illegally. There's plenty of people in luxury coaches that spend the night in parking lots not camping facilities.

They probably didn't notice him asleep at 9 30....feet off the curb head on the asphalt. Fast asleep.... didn't budge when my bike passed or the truck parked next to him. All I could see for possessions was a pack of cigarettes. Every day "unhoused" people congregate by the river between the Post office and Laconia city hall. Look for blue tarps along the Merrimack.....the state calls the problem a "tsunami". It's everywhere.

This forum represents a high percentage of wealthy and privileged people. Imagine the good that could be done if collectively if it was a priority? Would anyone pay $10 a year to be on the forum if the $ went back into lake protection or other hot topics....gun rights...school Safety... wildlife and conservation? Just saying.

BTW... when the police "move them along" where is it that "they" are being marched off to?

It's like WAM if you don't see or believe it's a problem it's not a problem. It's the man's fault as much as anyone who stumbled in life right? No one can teach compassion people either have it or they don't.

We had a neighbor...huge sailor. Quit his big job in March...moved to the lake in April. Had a massive stroke in May and the property went on the market in June. He came back a couple of times with an aide and a wheelchair, couldn't make it to the dock.

Point is..... enjoy your good fortune while you can...you are not far from the fringe at any time.
Your out of line because all you are making is assumptions and casting a very broad stoke without supplying actual numbers. If you want to make a real point you do your research and provide actual statistics from town records.

Additionally just because and island property has been in a family for generations and is in a trust doesn’t mean the family has a significant amount of money they are just protecting an asset passed down from previous generations.

You keep bringing up the RV but that is where many acts performing at the Colonial park their tour buses and has nothing to do with the homeless guys sleeping 40 feet away.

Homelessness in Laconia is a completely different and complex issue. I know because the loiter around my business in downtown Laconia every day.


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Old 08-03-2022, 09:21 PM   #17
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A free society will always include the freedom to have a bad outcome... the freer the society the greater the variable.
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Old 08-03-2022, 09:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mowtorman View Post

Many lake properties island or mainland are in trusts established 50 years ago. Many beautiful boats at marinas are also paid by trusts set up 2 generations ago.
You don't get to pick your family but many LAKELIFE benefactors are here by the decisions of grandparents.
I agree it's sad any way you look at it.
I will respectfully disagree. What evidence do you have to support that properties and slips are in trusts paid for 50 years ago?

I have many friends who own waterfront properties paid for by their hard work and success.

Starting in 1970 I would travel on the lake in my 18 foot Searay and as I traveled around I wondered how people could afford a house on the lake. It seemed beyond reach.

In the 1990's I rented a slip at Channel Marine. After that, I rented and then owned a slip at Mountain View Yacht club for over 20 years (1995 to 2015) and was finally able to purchase a waterfront property in 2004.

No one ever gave me 5 cents. I drove tractor trailers over 1 million miles when I was in my 20's and 30's and saved money and bought rental property with a goal in mind. I didn't take out college loans I couldn't pay or that I expected other people to pay for me.

I didn't get into drugs, and didn't waste money on things like tattoos. I worked hard 75 to 80 hours a week at 3 different jobs and saved for a waterfront home.

Yes, there are people in need and I am glad to help them. As a landlord, I have had more than 30 Section 8 tenants over the years and all but 3 were scamming the system.

The safety net has become a hammock. Is it a surprise that 92% of people on unemployment find a job the same week that their unemployment runs out? Wow! What a coincidence!

Don't be too quick to offer sympathy and money to people who seem to be having tough times. Yes, a small percentage have issues that warrant help and I agree that we should do that. The vast majority are taking the free ride.

The majority brought their problems on themselves by making bad decisions. If you give them money you just become an enabler.

I am no one special. Anyone could get to where I am and far beyond. It just requires being willing to work hard and making good decisions.

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Old 08-03-2022, 10:03 PM   #19
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It always comes to this. Power vs. paddle....guns...speed limits... that's what makes a forum.

Joey you don't get it, it's not anything that matters to you. Your biggest assumption is my ignorance yet you won't pull up a Gilford tax map and see how many trusts own properties. I'm not doing your homework for you. Like we haven't been here before. Eat your sour grapes and keep your chip intact.

Indifference..... again...like WAM..if no one notices it doesn't exist. Don't acknowledge, don't engage, don't converse.....do whatever works. People are all related to someone. No one hits first grade telling the teacher they want to be hungry and on the streets at 50.

I hope your business operations are not too impacted and I hope you are hugely successful. I have no idea what your business is for all I know Im one of your customers. Might as well plug your business while you're here.

I think you can't imagine that people don't have to pay to go boating. I know firsthand many boat expenditures are covered by trusts.

My original point is that people work hard and are successful. Second point many people don't have to spend a million on a property family bought long ago. Fact not fiction

What is there to argue
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Old 08-03-2022, 10:23 PM   #20
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properties in trust have nothing to do with its origin. For liability and estate purposes people me included put property in trusts.
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Old 08-03-2022, 10:28 PM   #21
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properties in trust have nothing to do with its origin. For liability and estate purposes people me included put property in trusts.
You can include me as well and many many people I know put their property in a trust for the exact reasons you mentioned. Nothing was left or given to me nor the many people I know who have placed their property in a trust.

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Old 08-03-2022, 10:28 PM   #22
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It always comes to this. Power vs. paddle....guns...speed limits... that's what makes a forum.

Joey you don't get it, it's not anything that matters to you. Your biggest assumption is my ignorance yet you won't pull up a Gilford tax map and see how many trusts own properties. I'm not doing your homework for you. Like we haven't been here before. Eat your sour grapes and keep your chip intact.

Indifference..... again...like WAM..if no one notices it doesn't exist. Don't acknowledge, don't engage, don't converse.....do whatever works. People are all related to someone. No one hits first grade telling the teacher they want to be hungry and on the streets at 50.

I hope your business operations are not too impacted and I hope you are hugely successful. I have no idea what your business is for all I know Im one of your customers. Might as well plug your business while you're here.

I think you can't imagine that people don't have to pay to go boating. I know firsthand many boat expenditures are covered by trusts.

My original point is that people work hard and are successful. Second point many people don't have to spend a million on a property family bought long ago. Fact not fiction

What is there to argue
No you don’t get it. Your making the assumptions not me you provide the proof of your statement.

So show me actual proof of your accusations and I will change my view until then you are just making grandiose assumptions that mean absolutely nothing.


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Old 08-03-2022, 10:45 PM   #23
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Default Trusts

2 for 2 on Gilford island properties.

Island trust
Financial advisors Boston Ma

Tip of another island family trust.

Joey you need to do your own homework I'm done....only word for your misguided narrative is boring. The whole gotta be right thing is so pre Trump now that Kelly Conway brought us up to speed on alternative truth and fake news.

Town of Gilford tax map...easy peezy.

I'm not even talking about the first one.... owned by a financial group as investment property.

Trusts are prevalent and have been for years.....they both protect and fund the asset. That being said...last time this time... people are enjoying LAKELIFE based on money and decisions made a long time ago as first stated.

We don't get to pick our family but it makes a difference sometimes.

Meanwhile yes "unhoused" people exist and they are part of society. I will probably encounter more tomorrow will keep you posted of anything newsworthy. I wasn't looking this morning just rode into the moment.
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Old 08-03-2022, 10:50 PM   #24
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Default A tale of two cities

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Originally Posted by mowtorman View Post
2 for 2 on Gilford island properties.

Island trust

Financial advisors Boston Ma

Tip of another island family trust.

Joey you need to do your own homework I'm done....only word for your misguided narrative is boring. The whole gotta be right thing is so pre Trump now that Kelly Conway brought us up to speed on alternative truth and fake news.

Town of Gilford tax map...easy peezy.

I'm not even talking about the first one.... owned by a financial group as investment property.

Trusts are prevalent and have been for years.....they both protect and fund the asset. That being said...last time this time... people are enjoying LAKELIFE based on money and decisions made a long time ago as first stated.

We don't get to pick our family but it makes a difference sometimes.

Meanwhile yes "unhoused" people exist and they are part of society. I will probably encounter more tomorrow will keep you posted of anything newsworthy. I wasn't looking this morning just rode into the moment.
Again why should I do your homework for you you’re the one making the accusations so you pulled up two records big deal many houses are on the water and islands in the town of Guilford and you pick two that’s a pretty small sample size. Again do your own homework until then don’t make any accusations. I shouldn’t have to do it for you I’m not the one making the accusations you need to prove your point not me

This is where we are today throw out accusations without any proof and then tell the people that disagree and ask you to provide the proof that they have to do your homework for you.


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Old 08-03-2022, 10:51 PM   #25
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Default What do you have against Trusts.

What do you have against Trusts, Mowtorman? I'm not sure you understand what a Threat is and why someone(s) would want one.

I live in my house, but I don't own a house. I drive my car, but I don't own a car. I pay my bills every month from my checking account, but I don't have a checking account.

Yeah, I know, it sounds like gibberish, but it's not. Back in 2001, my wife and I were meeting with our financial advisor (no, not about our millions in assets, far from it), discussing our present and future financial situation. He suggested we speak to an attorney specializing in family law. We did so and decided that we would form a Trust.

Every piece of real property was placed in the name of our Trust. Our checking account was changed to the name of the Trust. Our cars were retitled in the name of the Trust. My wife and I kiddingly said we aren't people anymore, we're just a Trust. What are we? We are Trustees of the Trust.

In the event of one of us passing away, the survivor continues as Trustee. Our daughter, in the event of both of us passing away becomes Trustee. When my wife passed away in March, I didn't have to change anything relative to anything involving the Trust. When I'm gone, my daughter will not have to do anything. She can add someone as Trustee as well.

So, most of these Trusts you talk about were undoubtedly established to allow families to keep property within the family from generation to generation.

Trusts are a viable part of family life for those who want to go that way, and a Trust is not limited to the wealthy. You can trust me on that.

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Old 08-03-2022, 10:53 PM   #26
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Default Recollections of times past

Back in 1960, as part of my college major, I worked at Embreeville State Hospital in Chester County, PA, about an hour west of Philadelphia. At the time, I remember having an initial impression of disbelief that there were so many mentally ill patients housed there, many in total lockdown for their own protection. It certainly wasn’t a happy place, but they were all well cared for as far as medical and psychiatric treatment, medication, housing, nutrition, and all that one needs in order to exist. I learned a lot while there and certainly considered the training valuable. However, not too many years later, some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places, and one by one, they were closed, leaving the inmates to basically fend for themselves, which they were largely unable to do. My rendition of this is oversimplified, but that’s when the homeless problem gathered momentum, along with drug and alcohol addiction…..and that’s why we have a tale of two cities in many places, not just Laconia. JMO, of course.
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Old 08-03-2022, 11:11 PM   #27
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Fair, but the State of NH and Laconia both promote alcohol consumption pretty strongly.
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Old 08-03-2022, 11:26 PM   #28
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Default Trusts continued

Saukee your example is perfect. You die...your daughter lives out the benefits of your decisions 20 years ago and probably her kids if she has any. I have no problem with trusts my point was not everyone has to pay for LAKELIFE which is offensive to people that have worked hard to achieve it. Trusts existed before and will expand as lake property becomes not sole proprietors but part of investment portfolios. It's no secret....I first learned in 1968 when we rented and the land down the road was posted no trespassing with a trust sign and 6 family names. We stayed away.

Us and them...lake users and lakefront owners. If you only could have seen the rafting on the Kona shores in the 80s. Everything old is new again...jetskis...rafting...speed limits...wakeboard....decibel limits ... no wake zones what's next?

Going back to the unhoused....not everyone has the same support and resources... that's life


Not everyone will own Winnipesaukee shorefront.... that's life.


Deinstitutionalization? I was there in the 80s in Vermont when Montpelier and Barre apartments became supervised community placements. It was very difficult for both city residents and former state hospital patients.
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Old 08-04-2022, 05:56 AM   #29
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Saukee your example is perfect. You die...your daughter lives out the benefits of your decisions 20 years ago and probably her kids if she has any. I have no problem with trusts my point was not everyone has to pay for LAKELIFE which is offensive to people that have worked hard to achieve it. Trusts existed before and will expand as lake property becomes not sole proprietors but part of investment portfolios. It's no secret....I first learned in 1968 when we rented and the land down the road was posted no trespassing with a trust sign and 6 family names. We stayed away.
We worked hard to achieve the Lake Life but I certainly take no offense to people that didn't have to pay for it. Good for them.
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:18 AM   #30
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Broken homes, poverty, mental health, substance abuse, lack of education, etc. all contribute to homelessness and all can be proactive measures, but that's not the approach we take in America—we're a "fix" rather than "prevent" culture because we're bad at math.

That being said, no child or adult wakes up wanting to be destitute, addicted, or mentally ill. We treat those conditions as ugly whereas physical illness is normal—someone has an emergency operation paid for by a GoFundMe drive, but a person with schizophrenia will live forever on the margins.

People here like to talk all about how well they did in life and, let's be honest, the very nature of this forum means that most people here are doing very well compared to many Americans, but the truth is much more complicated.

It absolutely takes hard work and dedication and all that jazz to succeed, BUT it also takes a serious set of positive—or fewer negative—circumstances to make it.

Case in point: I had an ablation performed in April. Without insurance, the procedure would've cost $63k—an amount that would financially crush most Americans—but with my health insurance? $250. Which I paid with an FSA card that saves me an extra 22%!

THAT'S good fortune, and I won't overlook it when thinking of the Tale of Two Laconias.

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Old 08-04-2022, 08:03 AM   #31
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Default Becoming an Enabler...

My permanent home is in a City that is the capital of homelessness.

It's a City populated by opposing forces trying to solve the same issue. Willie Brown, Ex-Mayor and creator of Kamala Harris, once told me that those forces negate each other resulting in nothing being accomplished.

A recent true story. A homeless man in Hayes Valley neighborhood was found sitting on the sidewalk, bleeding while incoherently mumbling. People called the "forces" that are the "first" responders. These were medical and law enforcement workers who showed up and started to treat the man.

Then the "progressive" forces showed up and told the man that he had "rights", and could refuse these responder's help and tell them to leave him alone...So he did.

The responders left because they can't "force" help on someone and the progressives left feeling accomplished. The man remained on the sidewalk with the wounds causing the bleeding bandaged.

Less than 10 days later the responders were called to remove his body from a sidewalk about one block away.

San Francisco became an "ENABLER", with good intentions. They set up shooting centers for addicts, no law enforcement allowed anywhere near.

Six square blocks south of Market St. were set-up, where no police can go unless a violent crime is taking place. Drugs of every kind...EVERY KIND! Are sold without impunity.

The City gives out over 400,000 hypodermic needles every month to the homeless who jab themselves and throw the needle onto the ground creating a "hazardous waste" problem that is cleaned up daily by City workers in haz-mat suits.

The City gives $600 to every new arrival without a home. So if you have no money and want $600, free food, warm weather to live under the underpass, get your perforated body to the Left coast and be free!

"Live Free or Die" in San Francisco takes on something a little bit different than the moto of The Granite State. There it should be "Live Free AND Die".

The tide of "do-gooder" ignorance may be changing in SF. We re-called a loser of a District Attorney. The current Mayor has had an epiphany and seems to be changing her direction.

Unfortunately, Laconia may be starting to try solving this problem with the same philosophy...i.e...

These are poor unfortunate folks who need to be made comfortable with their misfortune. Let's try and make their lives easier, more tolerable and less painful and, maybe, that will cause them to rehabilitate...NOPE!!!

Please learn from the mistakes of others and do not think you can do the same, with different results.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:50 AM   #32
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Default SailnAway bought a homeless man food...

I really applaud the kind hearted action. I came away thinking SailnAway is a good person.

But his actions do nothing to solve the problem.

That homeless man is probably starving again today, unless someone else took him to Market Basket, every day.

An old adage holds true today pertaining to this problem...

"Give a starving man a fish and he'll be hungry again tomorrow. Teach a man how to fish, he'll never be hungry again".
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:59 AM   #33
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In all things, society gets more of what is rewarded and less of what is punished.

When solving problems, care must be taken to avoid incentivizing them.
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:02 AM   #34
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Default Another quotable….

The definition of insanity: “…..doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results “. This certainly applies to the handling of the homeless situation.
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:21 AM   #35
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I really applaud the kind hearted action. I came away thinking SailnAway is a good person. But his actions do nothing to solve the problem. That homeless man is probably starving again today, unless someone else took him to Market Basket, every day. An old adage holds true today pertaining to this problem... "Give a starving man a fish and he'll be hungry again tomorrow. Teach a man how to fish, he'll never be hungry again".
We all can and should act on two levels to help solve problems like this: our small personal level in our daily lives, interacting with individuals we encounter, and on the political level through activism and careful voting.

The point of my story was not to show that I'm a good person. It was to convey the suffering of people with mental illness, and the power of one person to change the suffering of one other person for one day. If this were done every day by thousands of people, imagine the impact. In fact, thousands of people do acts of altruism every day. Everyone can choose to do this, rather that enjoying their own good fortune complacently. Life offers you these opportunities every single day. Seriously, ask yourself why you're here in this life. My belief is that we're here in large part to lessen the hardship around us.

Schizophrenia is a tough nut to crack, but there are other kinds of mental illness that do respond to simple kindness from a stranger, like depression and anxiety. And the young man I met shows that even people with severe mental illness can be lucid enough to be grateful for your compassion. Try it!

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Old 08-04-2022, 09:27 AM   #36
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IMHO, approximately 20% of the homeless population is homeless due to circumstances beyond their control... lost job, divorce, domestic violence etc. . . . The larger percentage of homeless suffer from both mental illness AND addiction, be it drugs or alcohol or both. These are the ones who are close to impossible to help. Bottom line is they usually don't want any help because help usually comes with rules like sobriety. Currently there is no solution to help these people until they actually want to get clean and want the help.
You seem to be saying that some people have a bad outcome due to things beyond their control, while others make bad choices. You seem to be placing people with mental illness in the second group. I hope you will give this some more thought.

Regarding deinstitutionalization, it happened because the state was warehousing and confining people with mental illness and disabilities against their will in substandard, abusive conditions and not providing them with proper education, treatment, and support. The federal court in New Hampshire acknowledged this, so these facts are not in dispute. As a result, some people with disabilities have been able to access services like vocational rehabilitation and move to group homes or into the community to live and work. Many others were released into the community with no plan to support them. A middle ground is needed between forcible confinement in a substandard institution and being left to flounder on the street with no support. That takes financial resources and social and political will.

The original post here was about two cities. If you watch one of the numerous documentaries about homelessness in Los Angeles you will realize that we have two countries. Count your blessings if you happen to live in the "right" country, whether by accident of birth or because you had the wherewithal to make all the right decisions and encountered none of the calamities that can derail a person's life. We are ALL just ONE major life event away from catastrophe, be it cancer, an accident, being a victim of a crime, a divorce, fire, natural disaster, loss of a spouse, etc. What do you think your chances are of evading all of those events throughout your entire life? Really not very good. Life is like a house of cards, more delicate than we imagine during our good times.

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Old 08-04-2022, 09:53 AM   #37
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In all things, society gets more of what is rewarded and less of what is punished.
If this were true, U.S. prisons would not be clogged with repeat offenders. They would be doing "less of what is punished" upon release. The facts:

(1) "As the world leader in incarceration, the U.S. locks up more people per capita than any other nation."

(2) The U.S. has one of the highest [recidivism rates in the world]: 76.6% of prisoners are rearrested within five years."

Why? Because in the U.S. criminal justice system, the emphasis is on punishment rather than rehabilitation.

Source: "Recidivism Imprisons American Progress," Harvard Political Review. https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivi...ican-progress/
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Old 08-04-2022, 10:06 AM   #38
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2 for 2 on Gilford island properties.

Island trust
Financial advisors Boston Ma

Tip of another island family trust.

Joey you need to do your own homework I'm done....only word for your misguided narrative is boring. The whole gotta be right thing is so pre Trump now that Kelly Conway brought us up to speed on alternative truth and fake news.

Town of Gilford tax map...easy peezy.

I'm not even talking about the first one.... owned by a financial group as investment property.

Trusts are prevalent and have been for years.....they both protect and fund the asset. That being said...last time this time... people are enjoying LAKELIFE based on money and decisions made a long time ago as first stated.

We don't get to pick our family but it makes a difference sometimes.

Meanwhile yes "unhoused" people exist and they are part of society. I will probably encounter more tomorrow will keep you posted of anything newsworthy. I wasn't looking this morning just rode into the moment.
I, along with others are failing to see your issue with island properties being in a trust. Mine is, along with my home, business assets, etc. It has nothing to do with being handed down generation to generation. Everything we own we bought and paid for ourselves. I bought my current island property 2 years ago. Its simple estate planning that helps to keep things out of probate should you pass away. What's the big deal? Are you upset that nobody has passed one down to you? Nobody has passed anything down to me...
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:22 AM   #39
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Default A very good article in The Atlantic Monthly on the problem...

Again, Laconia should have a lot to learn from the lessons learned from other cities...A very informative read...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...d-city/661199/
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:05 PM   #40
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Default Touchy topics

Both "unhoused" people and trusts.

Why? If you had a trust for 2 years your grandfather didn't buy an island property in 1950...or your great grandpappy in 1930.

As already mentioned the demographics of this forum by nature if the name is skewed. Whether a business or property much has been handled down. Trexlers 50 years, Thurston's was 50 years, Irwin's 80 years, Lakeport Landing 50 years, Nazwa. Not many people people stray from an established place in an established business. They say first generation buys, second generation builds and third generation breaks. I gave specific examples of longstanding trust properties.... it's not good enough. Are we in Egypt and this is De Nile? Birthright can create a whole life what is there to argue?

Congratulations you've secured your legacy for generations... exactly my initial point long forgotten.

So let's keep playing the blame game. The "unhoused" are to blame for their poor choices and whatever else so forgetaboutit. Let's look the other way while unsavory acts go on with teenagers for years because it doesn't fit the narrative of Camelot plus what about my boat.. Who else can we blame. Those darn Ukrainians if they just did what they were told. How about if Putin fires a nuke at London. Londoners did something wrong or someone did.

Here comes the killer. I followed the suggestion in this thread. Can one thing be better for one person today? I asked a group of "unhoused" people at the PO today what would help them with the heat. What a huge surprise...bottled water. I brought some back from Vista and they were shocked and thankful. BD they will be thirsty tomorrow but they are not thirsty today. I've done far worse at Oxford. If there is a tsunami of "unhoused" people in Laconia the next few weeks lay the blame on me.

All of this made impact with me when I was turning around in the parking lot with a boat on a trailer. I'm thinking about my boat they are thinking about where to sleep. A tale of 2 cities.

PS maybe the motorhome was Chris Isaak.

The first amendment is alive and well.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:14 PM   #41
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If this were true, U.S. prisons would not be clogged with repeat offenders. They would be doing "less of what is punished" upon release. The facts:

(1) "As the world leader in incarceration, the U.S. locks up more people per capita than any other nation."

(2) The U.S. has one of the highest [recidivism rates in the world]: 76.6% of prisoners are rearrested within five years."

Why? Because in the U.S. criminal justice system, the emphasis is on punishment rather than rehabilitation.

Source: "Recidivism Imprisons American Progress," Harvard Political Review. https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivi...ican-progress/
I could argue that if the recidivism rate is that high, keeping them behind bars would cut that rate to 0%.

Law abider's right's, IMHO, are more valuable to protect than trying to rehab habitual offenders.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:25 PM   #42
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Default A major problem with treating homelessness is...

There are thousands of people, employed in a multi-billion dollar industry, that if they were successful at their jobs, would become unemployed.

I can think of no other industry in which success would cause its own demise.

In fact, the incentive seems to be, making the "problem" worse, insures job security...Thus cities like Herb Caen's "Baghdad-by-the-Bay", create themselves as a homeless magnet.
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Old 08-04-2022, 01:21 PM   #43
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I will respectfully disagree. What evidence do you have to support that properties and slips are in trusts paid for 50 years ago?

I have many friends who own waterfront properties paid for by their hard work and success.

Starting in 1970 I would travel on the lake in my 18 foot Searay and as I traveled around I wondered how people could afford a house on the lake. It seemed beyond reach.

In the 1990's I rented a slip at Channel Marine. After that, I rented and then owned a slip at Mountain View Yacht club for over 20 years (1995 to 2015) and was finally able to purchase a waterfront property in 2004.

No one ever gave me 5 cents. I drove tractor trailers over 1 million miles when I was in my 20's and 30's and saved money and bought rental property with a goal in mind. I didn't take out college loans I couldn't pay or that I expected other people to pay for me.

I didn't get into drugs, and didn't waste money on things like tattoos. I worked hard 75 to 80 hours a week at 3 different jobs and saved for a waterfront home.

Yes, there are people in need and I am glad to help them. As a landlord, I have had more than 30 Section 8 tenants over the years and all but 3 were scamming the system.

The safety net has become a hammock. Is it a surprise that 92% of people on unemployment find a job the same week that their unemployment runs out? Wow! What a coincidence!

Don't be too quick to offer sympathy and money to people who seem to be having tough times. Yes, a small percentage have issues that warrant help and I agree that we should do that. The vast majority are taking the free ride.

The majority brought their problems on themselves by making bad decisions. If you give them money you just become an enabler.

I am no one special. Anyone could get to where I am and far beyond. It just requires being willing to work hard and making good decisions.
Well said...change a few words and you have our life story.
Remember a two year period when just starting out having to work 7 days @ 12 hours....no vacations or even a day off.
As a business and personally we support several local charities but have no sympathy for addicts,loafers and people gaming the system.
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Old 08-04-2022, 01:27 PM   #44
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Again, Laconia should have a lot to learn from the lessons learned from other cities...A very informative read...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...d-city/661199/
As a person who used to love San Francisco, I agree this is a great article that describes incredibly naive policies that are destroying the city. For those on this thread whose last visit was 15-20 years ago, it is no longer that city, and you'd be shocked that any wealthy civilized community allows this.

The hyperventilating on "trusts" misses the point. The real issue is how to we care for people who are not able to care for themselves, and how do we do this in a way that does not let the inmates run the asylum.

I hope all will read the piece Gary posted
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Old 08-04-2022, 01:29 PM   #45
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Back in 1960, as part of my college major, I worked at Embreeville State Hospital in Chester County, PA, about an hour west of Philadelphia. At the time, I remember having an initial impression of disbelief that there were so many mentally ill patients housed there, many in total lockdown for their own protection. It certainly wasn’t a happy place, but they were all well cared for as far as medical and psychiatric treatment, medication, housing, nutrition, and all that one needs in order to exist. I learned a lot while there and certainly considered the training valuable. However, not too many years later, some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places, and one by one, they were closed, leaving the inmates to basically fend for themselves, which they were largely unable to do. My rendition of this is oversimplified, but that’s when the homeless problem gathered momentum, along with drug and alcohol addiction…..and that’s why we have a tale of two cities in many places, not just Laconia. JMO, of course.
Sue, you are so right. A good example is the Laconia State School. In spite of abuse accusations the people there were at least housed, fed and given medical services. When they were sent out into the community they had no idea how to even care for themselves. The result was a disaster for Laconia .
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Old 08-04-2022, 02:29 PM   #46
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As a person who used to love San Francisco, I agree this is a great article that describes incredibly naive policies that are destroying the city. For those on this thread whose last visit was 15-20 years ago, it is no longer that city, and you'd be shocked that any wealthy civilized community allows this.

The hyperventilating on "trusts" misses the point. The real issue is how to we care for people who are not able to care for themselves, and how do we do this in a way that does not let the inmates run the asylum.

I hope all will read the piece Gary posted
I think he was just pointing out that difference between generational inheritance that some enjoy (whether the receiving generation or the giving generation, since their children or grandchildren will benefit) and the poverty of homelessness.

Oddly, the increase in the homeless in the area correlates to the issue that the businesses and community has suffered from with increased cost of housing in general.
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Old 08-04-2022, 03:24 PM   #47
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I think he was just pointing out that difference between generational inheritance that some enjoy (whether the receiving generation or the giving generation, since their children or grandchildren will benefit) and the poverty of homelessness.

Oddly, the increase in the homeless in the area correlates to the issue that the businesses and community has suffered from with increased cost of housing in general.
The OP noted both self-made wealthy people and those with trusts. Others then felt like he was attacking inherited wealth...

Personally, I think mowterman's excellent point about the huge gap between the rich and the poor is much more important than whether people inherited their properties or not. Like San Francisco, we have a colossal amount of wealth on the lake. (Is it $1 billion in real estate value? Primarily on second homes!) We should not have hungry children nearby or drug addicts laying on the street.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:07 PM   #48
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Laconia has some of that... but not all of that... lake frontage value.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:16 PM   #49
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Back in 1960, as part of my college major, I worked at Embreeville State Hospital in Chester County, PA, about an hour west of Philadelphia. At the time, I remember having an initial impression of disbelief that there were so many mentally ill patients housed there, many in total lockdown for their own protection. It certainly wasn’t a happy place, but they were all well cared for as far as medical and psychiatric treatment, medication, housing, nutrition, and all that one needs in order to exist. I learned a lot while there and certainly considered the training valuable. However, not too many years later, some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places, and one by one, they were closed, leaving the inmates to basically fend for themselves, which they were largely unable to do. My rendition of this is oversimplified, but that’s when the homeless problem gathered momentum, along with drug and alcohol addiction…..and that’s why we have a tale of two cities in many places, not just Laconia. JMO, of course.
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Sue, you are so right. A good example is the Laconia State School. In spite of abuse accusations the people there were at least housed, fed and given medical services. When they were sent out into the community they had no idea how to even care for themselves. The result was a disaster for Laconia .
"Some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places"? Goodness, no. Mental institutions around the country were closed as a result of advocacy by the residents of the institutions and their families.

I'm afraid the idea that people were well cared for at the Laconia State School is a fantasy. For a more realistic perspective, see this film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UesOm2HTm2I

The Laconia State School closed in 1991 following a federal class-action lawsuit, Garrity v. Gallen. In that case, the court ruled that "the state was violating the civil rights of the residents by denying them rehabilitative treatment in the least restrictive environment possible." (Foster's)

679 "feebleminded" people were forcibly sterilized there under a 1929 state law. Living conditions were not anything that you would tolerate for your family members today. According to a former resident, "Punishment for misbehavior included food deprivation, cold showers, being forced to stand outside wearing little or no clothing, being hit on the head with a board and being pushed and prodded with sharp objects."

Boston.com: "The school was supposed to be a training institution, but during testimony in the 1980 trial, witnesses said it was a human warehouse where residents were often left alone to sit naked in their feces and urine. Staff prodded residents with hatpins, burned them with cigarettes, and kicked them. They also shut off the water at night, forcing anyone who was thirsty to drink from the toilets."
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:30 PM   #50
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By the way, there are other homeless populations that we don't really recognize as such. One is the thousands of senior citizens who live in their van, spend the night in Wal-Mart parking lots, and work at very low-paid jobs at Wal-Mart and other menial jobs because they have no pension or retirement savings. They wander from one state to the next trying to escape from either the cold or the heat. Another is the same population who spend the summer and sometimes winter in their van serving as hosts in our national forests. Yes, that includes the White Mountain National Forest. All of these people are an inch away from being destitute. Their fate has nothing to do with mental illness, drug addiction, or alcoholism. It has to do with not playing the game right in a game that was stacked against them early on, and the life events I mentioned above.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:37 PM   #51
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Back in 1960, as part of my college major, I worked at Embreeville State Hospital in Chester County, PA, about an hour west of Philadelphia. At the time, I remember having an initial impression of disbelief that there were so many mentally ill patients housed there, many in total lockdown for their own protection. It certainly wasn’t a happy place, but they were all well cared for as far as medical and psychiatric treatment, medication, housing, nutrition, and all that one needs in order to exist. I learned a lot while there and certainly considered the training valuable. However, not too many years later, some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places, and one by one, they were closed, leaving the inmates to basically fend for themselves, which they were largely unable to do. My rendition of this is oversimplified, but that’s when the homeless problem gathered momentum, along with drug and alcohol addiction…..and that’s why we have a tale of two cities in many places, not just Laconia. JMO, of course.
"Some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places"? Goodness, no. Mental institutions around the country were closed as a result of advocacy by the residents of the institutions and their families.

I'm afraid the idea that people were well cared for at the Laconia State School is a fantasy. For a more realistic perspective, see this film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UesOm2HTm2I

The Laconia State School closed in 1991 following a federal class-action lawsuit, Garrity v. Gallen. In that case, the court ruled that "the state was violating the civil rights of the residents by denying them rehabilitative treatment in the least restrictive environment possible." (Foster's)

679 "feebleminded" people were forcibly sterilized there under a 1929 state law. Living conditions were not anything that you would tolerate for your family members today. According to a former resident, "Punishment for misbehavior included food deprivation, cold showers, being forced to stand outside wearing little or no clothing, being hit on the head with a board and being pushed and prodded with sharp objects."

Boston.com: "The school was supposed to be a training institution, but during testimony in the 1980 trial, witnesses said it was a human warehouse where residents were often left alone to sit naked in their feces and urine. Staff prodded residents with hatpins, burned them with cigarettes, and kicked them. They also shut off the water at night, forcing anyone who was thirsty to drink from the toilets."
If your post is accurate, it seems that the rehabilitation facilities themselves needed massive rehabilitation. How much better off would everyone be if that had been accomplished instead of turning mentally ill or addicted people loose from institutions, individuals who were incapable of independent functioning in the outside world? How sad.
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Old 08-04-2022, 04:44 PM   #52
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Default Here's an idea...

How about we stop sending billions of dollars to foreign countries that either gets stolen by corrupt politicians or wasted by same. Then, let's stop giving free everything to illegal aliens, and send them back from where they came. Now, with all the billions we have saved, we can 1) use it to help the veterans who gave their service to this country in order to protect your freedoms, and 2) use it to address the homeless population and starving Americans.
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Old 08-04-2022, 05:02 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym View Post
Back in 1960, as part of my college major, I worked at Embreeville State Hospital in Chester County, PA, about an hour west of Philadelphia. At the time, I remember having an initial impression of disbelief that there were so many mentally ill patients housed there, many in total lockdown for their own protection. It certainly wasn’t a happy place, but they were all well cared for as far as medical and psychiatric treatment, medication, housing, nutrition, and all that one needs in order to exist. I learned a lot while there and certainly considered the training valuable. However, not too many years later, some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places, and one by one, they were closed, leaving the inmates to basically fend for themselves, which they were largely unable to do. My rendition of this is oversimplified, but that’s when the homeless problem gathered momentum, along with drug and alcohol addiction…..and that’s why we have a tale of two cities in many places, not just Laconia. JMO, of course.
"Some brilliant politicians decided that mental hospitals were inhumane places"? Goodness, no. Mental institutions around the country were closed as a result of advocacy by the residents of the institutions and their families.

I'm afraid the idea that people were well cared for at the Laconia State School is a fantasy. For a more realistic perspective, see this film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UesOm2HTm2I

The Laconia State School closed in 1991 following a federal class-action lawsuit, Garrity v. Gallen. In that case, the court ruled that "the state was violating the civil rights of the residents by denying them rehabilitative treatment in the least restrictive environment possible." (Foster's)

679 "feebleminded" people were forcibly sterilized there under a 1929 state law. Living conditions were not anything that you would tolerate for your family members today. According to a former resident, "Punishment for misbehavior included food deprivation, cold showers, being forced to stand outside wearing little or no clothing, being hit on the head with a board and being pushed and prodded with sharp objects."

Boston.com: "The school was supposed to be a training institution, but during testimony in the 1980 trial, witnesses said it was a human warehouse where residents were often left alone to sit naked in their feces and urine. Staff prodded residents with hatpins, burned them with cigarettes, and kicked them. They also shut off the water at night, forcing anyone who was thirsty to drink from the toilets."
This is true. I was only 17 years old as a freshman at Belknap College and I was taking a psychology class. Our teacher took us there for a “field trip “. To say that I was traumatized, is an understatement.

I saw what you just described. We walked in and the building just smelled so strongly of urine and there were naked people chained up standing all around the corners. I remember just walking in a daze and then we were standing around a crib where they had an encephalitic baby in there unable to hold her head up off the crib mattress but smiling at us nonetheless because we were paying attention to her. It just broke my heart. I have never gotten over that visit to this day. I don’t remember most of it, but it is just knowing that this was happening and no one cared. I don’t know why it took them so long to close it down. It wasn’t like it was a secret.
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Old 08-04-2022, 05:04 PM   #54
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Gov Chris Sununu could follow the lead of Gov Ducey, Arizona, and Gov Abbot, Texas ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsJ0cYv6YKU .... and offer all these homeless in Laconia a free bus ticket to Jay, Vermont, way up northern Vermont and home of the Jay Peak resort, where summer and winter resort workers are needed.

To incentivize the Laconia homeless, offer a $500-bonus after they have worked in Vermont at www.jaypeakresort.com for 30-days.

If busing them to Jay, Vermont is a no-go, then how's about busing them up to Berlin, New Hampshire, a NH town that has lost half its population in the last ten years. In Berlin these homeless can all become used car experts and make the big money when they learn to sell someone an eight year old Subaru for $18995. at www.berlincity.com ....... with e-z financing .... so, just come on up to Berlin, NH.

And, if neither Jay, Vermont or Berlin, New Hampshire will work out for these homeless, then how's about Madawaska, Maine ...... a northern Maine town that has recently lost both its McDonald's restaurant and Dollar General store. Madawaska, Maine needs some new people to move in because everyone already there has done moved out and left town ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNObzCzs0bQ ..... a seven second clip on the Madawaska McDonald's
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Old 08-04-2022, 06:48 PM   #55
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Default Why shut down serious discussions?

FLL, this is just an observation I have made over time, and it’s puzzling to me why you manage to shut down interesting and serious discussions on a range of topics…by injecting ridiculous suggestions such as your last one on this thread. Why? When you have something serious to discuss, everyone chimes in with helpful suggestions. For instance, your endless problems with tinnitus….this went on for weeks with countless posts from many. I have tinnitus also, but it seemed pointless then to chime in when it’s just something you learn to tolerate. I don’t mean to be intolerant, but I think that it’s not helpful to inject nonsensical comments in the midst of a serious discussion. End of rant.
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Old 08-04-2022, 07:26 PM   #56
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I thought it was an offer to fund the bus and stipends plus drive by FLL...an unselfish and generous offer if politically incorrect.

Carbur's restaurant in Burlington Vermont was buying bus tickets south for the homeless about 15 years ago. It did not work out well for them and was quickly shut down.
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:56 PM   #57
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I will respectfully disagree. What evidence do you have to support that properties and slips are in trusts paid for 50 years ago?

I have many friends who own waterfront properties paid for by their hard work and success.

Starting in 1970 I would travel on the lake in my 18 foot Searay and as I traveled around I wondered how people could afford a house on the lake. It seemed beyond reach.

In the 1990's I rented a slip at Channel Marine. After that, I rented and then owned a slip at Mountain View Yacht club for over 20 years (1995 to 2015) and was finally able to purchase a waterfront property in 2004.

No one ever gave me 5 cents. I drove tractor trailers over 1 million miles when I was in my 20's and 30's and saved money and bought rental property with a goal in mind. I didn't take out college loans I couldn't pay or that I expected other people to pay for me.

I didn't get into drugs, and didn't waste money on things like tattoos. I worked hard 75 to 80 hours a week at 3 different jobs and saved for a waterfront home.

Yes, there are people in need and I am glad to help them. As a landlord, I have had more than 30 Section 8 tenants over the years and all but 3 were scamming the system.

The safety net has become a hammock. Is it a surprise that 92% of people on unemployment find a job the same week that their unemployment runs out? Wow! What a coincidence!

Don't be too quick to offer sympathy and money to people who seem to be having tough times. Yes, a small percentage have issues that warrant help and I agree that we should do that. The vast majority are taking the free ride.

The majority brought their problems on themselves by making bad decisions. If you give them money you just become an enabler.

I am no one special. Anyone could get to where I am and far beyond. It just requires being willing to work hard and making good decisions.
Hear, hear, Tilton! What a great post. Also I think it’s strange to define a subset of people by what they don’t have, I.e., homeless. By that logic, I’m jetless! lol.


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Old 08-04-2022, 08:59 PM   #58
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There seems to be a sentiment that those in unfortunate situations have had a life of circumstances "stacked against them" or they were born into the "wrong family" or even born with a mental illness. Have you considered those that are from the trust funded families you are baselessly judging that have gone down the wrong road leading to an unfortunate circumstance? There are countless families suffering from a loved one who is an addict, has a mental disorder or is homeless even from the Gilford tax role indicating a 50 year old trust. Money doesn't determine your path in life as much as people like to blame it. All the money in the world would not solve these issues as they don't stem from finances. You can buy a home for every single homeless person in Laconia and guess what will happen in a very short period of time?

How about those who experience these unfortunate circumstances as a child and end up using their adversity to live a happy, successful life? I can't count the amount of professional athletes and entertainers who have told the story of their incredibly difficult childhood experiences but found a way to persevere.

Does this not dispel some of the beliefs we are reading? Why grandstand and baselessly judge those who have wealth (however it was obtained) when it has nothing to do with nor will it cure these social issues?
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Old 08-04-2022, 08:59 PM   #59
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When my wife passed away in March, I didn't have to change anything relative to anything involving the Trust.
So sorry to hear about your wife, Up.


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Old 08-04-2022, 09:06 PM   #60
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How about we stop sending billions of dollars to foreign countries that either gets stolen by corrupt politicians or wasted by same. Then, let's stop giving free everything to illegal aliens, and send them back from where they came. Now, with all the billions we have saved, we can 1) use it to help the veterans who gave their service to this country in order to protect your freedoms, and 2) use it to address the homeless population and starving Americans.
Sounds sensible.


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Old 08-04-2022, 09:12 PM   #61
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FLL, this is just an observation I have made over time, and it’s puzzling to me why you manage to shut down interesting and serious discussions on a range of topics…by injecting ridiculous suggestions such as your last one on this thread. Why? When you have something serious to discuss, everyone chimes in with helpful suggestions. For instance, your endless problems with tinnitus….this went on for weeks with countless posts from many. I have tinnitus also, but it seemed pointless then to chime in when it’s just something you learn to tolerate. I don’t mean to be intolerant, but I think that it’s not helpful to inject nonsensical comments in the midst of a serious discussion. End of rant.
I think FLL was just trying to lighten things up a little, and wasn’t trying to diminish the seriousness of the topic. A chuckle is always welcome.


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Old 08-04-2022, 09:14 PM   #62
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Fair, but the State of NH and Laconia both promote alcohol consumption pretty strongly.
Alcohol consumption, yes. Excessive alcohol consumption, no.


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Old 08-04-2022, 09:17 PM   #63
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Saukee your example is perfect. You die...your daughter lives out the benefits of your decisions 20 years ago and probably her kids if she has any. I have no problem with trusts my point was not everyone has to pay for LAKELIFE which is offensive to people that have worked hard to achieve it. Trusts existed before and will expand as lake property becomes not sole proprietors but part of investment portfolios. It's no secret....I first learned in 1968 when we rented and the land down the road was posted no trespassing with a trust sign and 6 family names. We stayed away.

Us and them...lake users and lakefront owners. If you only could have seen the rafting on the Kona shores in the 80s. Everything old is new again...jetskis...rafting...speed limits...wakeboard....decibel limits ... no wake zones what's next?

Going back to the unhoused....not everyone has the same support and resources... that's life


Not everyone will own Winnipesaukee shorefront.... that's life.


Deinstitutionalization? I was there in the 80s in Vermont when Montpelier and Barre apartments became supervised community placements. It was very difficult for both city residents and former state hospital patients.
Who care if something is offensive to someone else? It’s the problem of the person who chooses to feel offended.


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Old 08-04-2022, 09:20 PM   #64
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Broken homes, poverty, mental health, substance abuse, lack of education, etc. all contribute to homelessness and all can be proactive measures, but that's not the approach we take in America—we're a "fix" rather than "prevent" culture because we're bad at math.

That being said, no child or adult wakes up wanting to be destitute, addicted, or mentally ill. We treat those conditions as ugly whereas physical illness is normal—someone has an emergency operation paid for by a GoFundMe drive, but a person with schizophrenia will live forever on the margins.

People here like to talk all about how well they did in life and, let's be honest, the very nature of this forum means that most people here are doing very well compared to many Americans, but the truth is much more complicated.

It absolutely takes hard work and dedication and all that jazz to succeed, BUT it also takes a serious set of positive—or fewer negative—circumstances to make it.

Case in point: I had an ablation performed in April. Without insurance, the procedure would've cost $63k—an amount that would financially crush most Americans—but with my health insurance? $250. Which I paid with an FSA card that saves me an extra 22%!

THAT'S good fortune, and I won't overlook it when thinking of the Tale of Two Laconias.

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I don’t think it’s good fortune Think. You paid insurance premiums for years if not decades (I’m guessing), essentially betting they someday you would need a procedure such as an ablation. Your foresight and decision to pay for insurance was wisdom, not luck.


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Old 08-04-2022, 09:23 PM   #65
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Alcohol consumption, yes. Excessive alcohol consumption, no.


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I would say many of the events that it promotes are promoting excessive alcohol consumption.
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:26 PM   #66
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How about we stop sending billions of dollars to foreign countries that either gets stolen by corrupt politicians or wasted by same. Then, let's stop giving free everything to illegal aliens, and send them back from where they came. Now, with all the billions we have saved, we can 1) use it to help the veterans who gave their service to this country in order to protect your freedoms, and 2) use it to address the homeless population and starving Americans.
Other expenditures do not inhibit the federal government from such expenditures; which can be easily seen in federal expenditures.
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:30 PM   #67
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By the way, there are other homeless populations that we don't really recognize as such. One is the thousands of senior citizens who live in their van, spend the night in Wal-Mart parking lots, and work at very low-paid jobs at Wal-Mart and other menial jobs because they have no pension or retirement savings. They wander from one state to the next trying to escape from either the cold or the heat. Another is the same population who spend the summer and sometimes winter in their van serving as hosts in our national forests. Yes, that includes the White Mountain National Forest. All of these people are an inch away from being destitute. Their fate has nothing to do with mental illness, drug addiction, or alcoholism. It has to do with not playing the game right in a game that was stacked against them early on, and the life events I mentioned above.
Not so much...
Two sets of grandparents...
One in Center Harbor and Moultonboro... house, toys, and trappings of wealth.
One in Laconia... reasonable house, no toys, and investments for the future.

Both retired to small cottages in Belmont.... which do you think had the larger monthly retirement income?
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Old 08-04-2022, 09:32 PM   #68
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I would say many of the events that it promotes are promoting excessive alcohol consumption.
Gotcha John. That could be valid.


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Old 08-04-2022, 10:39 PM   #69
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If this were true, U.S. prisons would not be clogged with repeat offenders. They would be doing "less of what is punished" upon release. The facts:

(1) "As the world leader in incarceration, the U.S. locks up more people per capita than any other nation."

(2) The U.S. has one of the highest [recidivism rates in the world]: 76.6% of prisoners are rearrested within five years."

Why? Because in the U.S. criminal justice system, the emphasis is on punishment rather than rehabilitation.

Source: "Recidivism Imprisons American Progress," Harvard Political Review. https://harvardpolitics.com/recidivi...ican-progress/
Perhaps our high "lock up" rate is a result of diminished familial and societal structure.

I don't see high recidivism as a contradiction to my statement.

I see it as people who screwed up and continue to do so.
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Old 08-04-2022, 10:42 PM   #70
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In the past, people who conducted themselves poorly enough to not keep a steady job and require public assistance or panhandling were shamed.

Now they seem to be treated as victims.

The fact that a bum on a sidewalk is located a mere two miles from a multimillion dollar vacation home shows no cause and effect.

The wealthy person did not become wealthy by taking advantage of the bum.
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Old 08-04-2022, 10:55 PM   #71
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I can remember as a girl that there were still poor houses. And I can remember playing the game of Life, and if you made the wrong decisions, you ended up in the poor house. And they did shame you for not being able to support your family.

I was also thinking about boarding houses. Whatever happened to them? They were usually run by an older woman who rented out rooms to different people to bring in some extra money. She would also provide them with meals. It seems to me with the cost of rent being so high everywhere, we need to look for other solutions and maybe go back to some of the old ways.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:09 PM   #72
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Sort of yes, and sort of no.
If the millionaire built a new home... then no.
If they acquired a home that priced the ''bum'' out... then there is causation.

Laconia's resident population has stayed roughly the same since the 1980 census. It has increased housing units dramatically since that time; but yet, still not enough housing.

The homeless population - the best they can estimate due to being transient - has increased sevenfold since 2016.

I don't think it is a simple equation or a simple solution.

But Laconia through leadership and private efforts has tried to move very fast from a mill city to a tourism city. And it has an increasingly elderly native/long term resident population that ''led the good life'' when they were younger.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:15 PM   #73
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If your post is accurate, it seems that the rehabilitation facilities themselves needed massive rehabilitation. How much better off would everyone be if that had been accomplished instead of turning mentally ill or addicted people loose from institutions, individuals who were incapable of independent functioning in the outside world? How sad.
A legal principle of supporting people with disabilities is "least restrictive environment." If you have a child with a disability, you child will be placed in the least restrictive school environment that will meet his needs. This allowed children with disabilities to be moved from self-contained special education classrooms, where they only had contact with other disabled children and limited opportunities to learn, to the mainstream classroom, where they are exposed to all the advantages that nondisabled students have.

The same law applies to disabled adults. The Laconia school and similar facilities across the country were closed because an institution that warehouses people in deplorable conditions without training or educating them is not the least restrictive environment; it is the most restrictive environment. When the Nazis were sterilizing Jews in concentration camps, the Laconia State School was doing the same thing to its residents, sanctioned by state law! That is a very sobering thought. It's not sad that people were "turned loose" from the Laconia school. It's sad that New Hampshire's system of taxation does not produce enough revenue to provide support for everyone who needs it.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:24 PM   #74
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I think FLL was just trying to lighten things up a little, and wasn’t trying to diminish the seriousness of the topic. A chuckle is always welcome.
If you wait long enough, FLL will suddenly say something astute that makes you realize he isn't crazy after all. His tinnitus thread was of interest to a number of people.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:27 PM   #75
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Who care if something is offensive to someone else? It’s the problem of the person who chooses to feel offended.
So I'm now free to call Major batsh*t crazy? Not that I would do that. I probably wouldn't.
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Old 08-05-2022, 12:49 AM   #76
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A legal principle of supporting people with disabilities is "least restrictive environment." If you have a child with a disability, you child will be placed in the least restrictive school environment that will meet his needs. This allowed children with disabilities to be moved from self-contained special education classrooms, where they only had contact with other disabled children and limited opportunities to learn, to the mainstream classroom, where they are exposed to all the advantages that nondisabled students have.

The same law applies to disabled adults. The Laconia school and similar facilities across the country were closed because an institution that warehouses people in deplorable conditions without training or educating them is not the least restrictive environment; it is the most restrictive environment. When the Nazis were sterilizing Jews in concentration camps, the Laconia State School was doing the same thing to its residents, sanctioned by state law! That is a very sobering thought. It's not sad that people were "turned loose" from the Laconia school. It's sad that New Hampshire's system of taxation does not produce enough revenue to provide support for everyone who needs it.
It can. It is just really the way to provide that support in a progressive means.
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:25 AM   #77
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If you wait long enough, FLL will suddenly say something astute that makes you realize he isn't crazy after all. His tinnitus thread was of interest to a number of people.
I usually skip by FLL's rambling posts but when he decides to be serious it is obvious that he is not only very intelligent but has a lot of Yankee common sense
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Old 08-05-2022, 09:50 AM   #78
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No need for quotation marks around the word bum. The word homeless is the euphemism, not the other way around.


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Old 08-05-2022, 09:51 AM   #79
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So I'm now free to call Major batsh*t crazy? Not that I would do that. I probably wouldn't.
I consider Sailin's characterization a badge of honor. The primary reason why I decided to venture back to the Forum after two years is because of the insanity that is going on with our country. It is people like Sailin and her insane ideas that are destroying the fabric of our great nation. Conservatives need to fight against these insane policies tooth and nail.

Unfortunately, the voices of the silent majority of Americans are not being heard. I am reminded of the famous quote from Pauline Kael -- “I can’t believe Nixon won. I don’t know anyone who voted for him.” Most Americans do not believe climate change is an existential threat. They do believe, however, in conservation of our environment and energy independence. Most Americans do not believe the government's unconstitutional response to the virus was warranted. They do believe that modest measures should have been taken to protect our most vulnerable citizens and that the lockdowns, masking, social distancing and vaccines didn't work. Most Americans believe in controlling the border, funding the police, and relaxing of oppressive government regulation.

A quick note on trusts. My assets are in a trust controlled by my wife. We did this because we wanted to protect our assets from my business interests. I grew up in Laconia (Weirs) and like others have known many, many people who own waterfront properties. I can't think of one person who inherited their home. Without exception, all of them worked very hard and sacrificed to achieve a waterfront property. As I stated above, a recent study revealed that 89% of millionaires did not inherit their wealth. The trusts referred to by others are trusts like mine -- designed to protect assets, not to protect a vast fortune.

And finally, I noticed that one post mentioned privilege. Nothing crawls up my you know what like the mentioning of privilege. Like others who have commented above, the only advantage I had in life are awesome parents, who instilled in me values like, honesty, gratitude, hard work, integrity, sacrifice, fun, and self-reliance. My parents instilled in me the notion that NOBODY owes me a thing. Like many workplaces, my firm is exploring DEI training and from what I have seen, this is a destructive concept. The values espoused above are replaced by values like victimhood, jealousy, equity, etc.

To get back to the photo, there is a tale of two, not necessarily cities, but philosophies on life. This thread highlights the gap between the two.
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Old 08-05-2022, 11:06 AM   #80
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The primary reason why I decided to venture back to the Forum after two years is because of the insanity that is going on with our country. It is people like Sailin and her insane ideas that are destroying the fabric of our great nation. Conservatives need to fight against these insane policies tooth and nail.
Welcome back Major. You've hit the nail on the head with these 2 simple sentences. Hopefully conservatives WILL wake up soon enough to save the country. No more:

Climate change
Green new deals
Pronouns
Woke-ism
Cancel culture
Trans this, that and the other thing
Bias this, that and the other thing

And the list goes on & on...
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