Amazing island values

[Descant]

Just received a real estate flyer focused on island sales. A couple on Rattlesnake under $500K. Others all over the lake ranged from $1,000,000 to $3,500,000.

I remember the 50's-60's when people owned a 14' aluminum boat with a small o/b and carried out materials to build their camps. No electricity or power tools. Look what that sweat equity has turned into! No more cartoppers; a boat is $50-$100K and a slip to keep it can be another $100K. (You can't have a "cheap" island camp and keep your boat on a trailer.)
Do whatever you can to keep the family camp in the family. It's rare that current younger generations will want to, or be able to, spend $1,000,000+ for another camp. If you're an "older owner", don't sell "So we can give the kids the money". Rent/lease and give them the income.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Descant

Just received a real estate flyer focused on island sales. A couple on Rattlesnake under $500K. Others all over the lake ranged from $1,000,000 to $3,500,000.

I remember the 50's-60's when people owned a 14' aluminum boat with a small o/b and carried out materials to build their camps. No electricity or power tools. Look what that sweat equity has turned into! No more cartoppers; a boat is $50-$100K and a slip to keep it can be another $100K. (You can't have a "cheap" island camp and keep your boat on a trailer.)
Do whatever you can to keep the family camp in the family. It's rare that current younger generations will want to, or be able to, spend $1,000,000+ for another camp. If you're an "older owner", don't sell "So we can give the kids the money". Rent/lease and give them the income.

And even if you do want to "give the kids the money" before you go, they are much better off if they sell the property themselves. If you sell today, you are hit with taxes on the gain. But when you die, the cost basis is reset to the value at your death. If they sell right after you drop, the gain for tax purposes is zero. (may be different if house is in a trust, consult professional) But let's hope they're smart enough to hang on to it

[retired]

In the early 80s when lots on Rattlesnake were first for sale, they were going for $10,000.

[lakershaker]

Originally Posted by retired

In the early 80s when lots on Rattlesnake were first for sale, they were going for $10,000.

When they were actually first on sale in the 60's, they were $4,000...

[dpg]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

And even if you do want to "give the kids the money" before you go, they are much better off if they sell the property themselves. If you sell today, you are hit with taxes on the gain. But when you die, the cost basis is reset to the value at your death. If they sell right after you drop, the gain for tax purposes is zero. (may be different if house is in a trust, consult professional) But let's hope they're smart enough to hang on to it

Same holds true if a home is "trusted" to someone and the original owner passes on, goes to the heirs at current value.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

When they were actually first on sale in the 60's, they were $4,000...

When I was gifted a 10-foot cedar rowboat with a Champion 4.2 HP outboard motor, I went camping with neighbors' kids occasionally on a "desolate" Rattlesnake Island before those lots were platted.

If any news of Black Bears had been in the Granite State News, I'd surely have stayed home.

[SAB1]

Ha I remember this all to well. In the 60's and 70's boating on the lake was dominated by those starcraft car toppers and a Johnson 6. You were styling to own a 9.9. And now look where we are......and wonder why the lake is stressed....duh.

[pondguy]

I traveled in a 12-foot aluminum rowboat with a 7.5 hp Elgin (sears) motor, got me everywhere I wanted to go.

[mcdude]

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/photop...hp?photo=10943


It's been so long I've forgotten how to post a pic! This was a photopost post from RattlesnakeGal


To see the rest of the brochure go to Photopost and do a search under Historical Photos for Rattlesnake

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by pondguy

I traveled in a 12-foot aluminum rowboat with a 7.5 hp Elgin (sears) motor, got me everywhere I wanted to go.

That's a gigantic engine for a 12' aluminum row boat. Best size for a 12' rowboat is a 4-hp which usually has a half-gal gas tank under its cowl cover so it doesn't need a separate 3-gal tank.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by mcdude

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/photop...hp?photo=10943


It's been so long I've forgotten how to post a pic! This was a photopost post from RattlesnakeGal


To see the rest of the brochure go to Photopost and do a search under Historical Photos for Rattlesnake

Speaking of Rattlesnake Gal, what happened to her? She was such an active part of this forum for many years. Really enjoyed her posts as they were always in good spirit! Who scared her away??

Dan

[tis]

Originally Posted by mcdude

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/photop...hp?photo=10943


It's been so long I've forgotten how to post a pic! This was a photopost post from RattlesnakeGal


To see the rest of the brochure go to Photopost and do a search under Historical Photos for Rattlesnake

And everybody thought Joe was nuts, nobody would want to rent a lot on the island.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

And everybody thought Joe was nuts, nobody would want to rent a lot on the island.

Never mind build a dock on the broads.

I was too young to remember most names, but there was a member of Winter Harbor Yacht Club who had a Rattlesnake on the transom of his boat. I was told he was the owner of Rattlesnake Island. Was that Melanson? Or did he sell to Melanson? In the 50's the lake chart had a measured mile marked on Rattlesnake. There was a makeshift flagpole with a red flag at the summit.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Descant

Never mind build a dock on the broads.

I was too young to remember most names, but there was a member of Winter Harbor Yacht Club who had a Rattlesnake on the transom of his boat. I was told he was the owner of Rattlesnake Island. Was that Melanson? Or did he sell to Melanson? In the 50's the lake chart had a measured mile marked on Rattlesnake. There was a makeshift flagpole with a red flag at the summit.

I don't think Joe would have been a member of WHYC because he lived in Wolfeboro but he could have bought it from the guy you are thinking of. I don't know. The measured mile sounds familiar too, but like you, I was very young and not sure if I remember something like that or remember being told about it. My mom told me about how Joe would drive up in his big black car and tell her to get in, she was going to play with Bucky, his son.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Speaking of Rattlesnake Gal, what happened to her? She was such an active part of this forum for many years. Really enjoyed her posts as they were always in good spirit! Who scared her away??

Dan

She is still around, Dan. Just doesn't come on very much. She lives down in Barnstead the last I knew. I see her posting on Facebook, mostly pictures taken with her Trail Cam.

Dave

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

She is still around, Dan. Just doesn't come on very much. She lives down in Barnstead the last I knew. I see her posting on Facebook, mostly pictures taken with her Trail Cam.

Dave

Does she still have the place on Rattlesnake Dave?

Thanks for your reply!

Dan

[Descant]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't think Joe would have been a member of WHYC because he lived in Wolfeboro but he could have bought it from the guy you are thinking of. I don't know. The measured mile sounds familiar too, but like you, I was very young and not sure if I remember something like that or remember being told about it. My mom told me about how Joe would drive up in his big black car and tell her to get in, she was going to play with Bucky, his son.

I hesitate here because I don't like to get too far away from an original post, but---
The Public Utilities Commission published info about the lake prior to 1950, noting that WHYC was a group of yachtsmen who scheduled cruises to various areas of the lake. They formed under the WHYC name as Winter Harbor was a frequent anchorage. I've posted elsewhere about Don Posson from Winter Harbor who owned the Penguin, Admiral Byrd's barge when he went to the South Pole. Obviously inactive during the war, they later formed Endicott Estates, Inc. to buy a permanent location. In 1949, they bought the middle third of Welch Island, about 40 acres, with shorefront on both sides, cove and broads. In the mid-late 50's they started selling lots on the south/broads side to finance improvements in the cove. My father, as a club member, was one of the first buyers, and we're still there. He and Lester Shapiro and Alan Lydiard worked with PSNH to bring electricity to Welch Island in 1960.

Back to the thread theme---electricity later moved to the islands in the Forty's and the Varney's and the race was on for ever increasing values. In 1959, we paid $15.00 per front foot for shorefront. Inhospitable topography made Rattlesnake one of the last to be developed in any significant way.

[Juiced06GTO]

My dream of owning an island place has died too......

A few on Cow went up today, but they are so over priced for what you are getting I can't believe it. There was also one on the mainland in Alton that went up today, 699k for 600sq ft and 43ft of waterfront.....

I fear that our time with the family place down on Upper Suncook is coming to an end soon as well. Too many family members wrapped up in the trust, taxes just doubled to about 14K/year, and the family is talking about trying to extract every penny out of it if we decide to sell as a trust and I can't afford the almost $800k it would be to buy them out

Sad times....I may be a one week renter in the lakes region from here on out shortly...

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

My dream of owning an island place has died too......

A few on Cow went up today, but they are so over priced for what you are getting I can't believe it. There was also one on the mainland in Alton that went up today, 699k for 600sq ft and 43ft of waterfront.....

I fear that our time with the family place down on Upper Suncook is coming to an end soon as well. Too many family members wrapped up in the trust, taxes just doubled to about 14K/year, and the family is talking about trying to extract every penny out of it if we decide to sell as a trust and I can't afford the almost $800k it would be to buy them out

Sad times....I may be a one week renter in the lakes region from here on out shortly...

It's a bit disheartening, right?

When we bought at Arcadia, one of the options we thought we'd have if the kids were no longer interested when they were older was a "standard" lakefront property, but those prices have almost made it impossible.

I say almost because our home value in Merrimack has skyrocketed as well, so who knows what the ratio will be at the time we make the decision.

In either case, Arcadia continues to be a solid value for families!

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

My dream of owning an island place has died too......

A few on Cow went up today, but they are so over priced for what you are getting I can't believe it. There was also one on the mainland in Alton that went up today, 699k for 600sq ft and 43ft of waterfront.....

I fear that our time with the family place down on Upper Suncook is coming to an end soon as well. Too many family members wrapped up in the trust, taxes just doubled to about 14K/year, and the family is talking about trying to extract every penny out of it if we decide to sell as a trust and I can't afford the almost $800k it would be to buy them out

Sad times....I may be a one week renter in the lakes region from here on out shortly...

Never say never. We've had a long expansion, we are overdue for a recession.
Everything contracts during a recession. You just have to be in a financial position to jump in. I'm 70, been through quite a few!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Does she still have the place on Rattlesnake Dave?

Thanks for your reply!

Dan

I don't think so. I believe she and Rattlesnake Guy sold their island home.

Dave

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

My dream of owning an island place has died too......

A few on Cow went up today, but they are so over priced for what you are getting I can't believe it. There was also one on the mainland in Alton that went up today, 699k for 600sq ft and 43ft of waterfront.....

I fear that our time with the family place down on Upper Suncook is coming to an end soon as well. Too many family members wrapped up in the trust, taxes just doubled to about 14K/year, and the family is talking about trying to extract every penny out of it if we decide to sell as a trust and I can't afford the almost $800k it would be to buy them out

Sad times....I may be a one week renter in the lakes region from here on out shortly...

A smart CPA might be able to solve some of this. If you had the $800K, would they get it all or would they lose a lot in capital gains taxes? A sale over time might resolve some of that. Can you buy it as an investment property and rent/lease to others? Possible cash flow for some years, depreciation, tax breaks, etc. You could save on sales commissions and transfer taxes dealing within the family trust. Good luck.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Never say never. We've had a long expansion, we are overdue for a recession.
Everything contracts during a recession. You just have to be in a financial position to jump in. I'm 70, been through quite a few!

I don't know.
If the FED lowers interest rates that should put at least some support under the prices.

And the last tax reevaluation for Meredith didn't show waterfront or island homes rising in value as much as other property designations.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't know.
If the FED lowers interest rates that should put at least some support under the prices.

And the last tax reevaluation for Meredith didn't show waterfront or island homes rising in value as much as other property designations.

Not saying it will happen soon, but it will happen. It always does!
Let's hope the Fed hasn't waited too long. Once that ball starts rolling downhill it picks up speed quickly.
I don't need any more property at my age but if I was younger and a buyer, I would wait it out, JMO.
50 years of buying and selling real estate, I only lost money once because I bought at the top of the market.

[codeman671]

Demand is still high. I keep a close eye on the island market as I tend to wheel and deal a bit- always looking. A few that just popped on are already under agreement. Overpriced? Not if people are paying it and they are going under that quickly.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Juiced06GTO

My dream of owning an island place has died too......

A few on Cow went up today, but they are so over priced for what you are getting I can't believe it. There was also one on the mainland in Alton that went up today, 699k for 600sq ft and 43ft of waterfront.....

I fear that our time with the family place down on Upper Suncook is coming to an end soon as well. Too many family members wrapped up in the trust, taxes just doubled to about 14K/year, and the family is talking about trying to extract every penny out of it if we decide to sell as a trust and I can't afford the almost $800k it would be to buy them out

Sad times....I may be a one week renter in the lakes region from here on out shortly...

Here's a link to a webinar on keeping the lake house in the family, including issues that arise when different people have different goals. Even if the video does not get at the best solution for you, it might be worth a few hours of legal time with the lawyer https://nhlakes.org/webinars/

[Lake Fan]

For the past few years there have been very few island properties listed for sale. All of a sudden there are several, with others showing up almost daily.
With prices for even a pretty basic island camp approaching one million dollars, are owners figuring it's time to cash in? My dad bought our island property in 1970 because it was affordable. More than one person told him he was nuts.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Demand is still high. I keep a close eye on the island market as I tend to wheel and deal a bit- always looking. A few that just popped on are already under agreement. Overpriced? Not if people are paying it and they are going under that quickly.

All of New England is still pretty strong but it's getting soft around the rest of the country. We just may be the last domino to fall.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

For the past few years there have been very few island properties listed for sale. All of a sudden there are several, with others showing up almost daily.
With prices for even a pretty basic island camp approaching one million dollars, are owners figuring it's time to cash in? My dad bought our island property in 1970 because it was affordable. More than one person told him he was nuts.

Many old waterfront camps, not just on the Islands, are still selling quickly. One sold near me for 1.3 million and IMO, it's a tear down. But I think the buyers are going to fix it up. It was in the family for over 60 years and they decided to cash out high, can't say that I blame them. It wasn't getting much use, or much maintenance and the tax bill was making it unaffordable for the average person as a second home.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

For the past few years there have been very few island properties listed for sale. All of a sudden there are several, with others showing up almost daily.
With prices for even a pretty basic island camp approaching one million dollars, are owners figuring it's time to cash in? My dad bought our island property in 1970 because it was affordable. More than one person told him he was nuts.

It has been a slow season for island listings and closed sales. Only a couple have closed and a few have been contingent for a while that should close soon. Well below normal.

Late last week stuff finally started coming online and a few are already contingent. Its that time of the season where people know that if they sell it won't close until after labor Day so they don't close the end of summer.

[Juiced06GTO]

Descant and Flying Scot, thanks for the tips. I'll def look into it!

[DRH]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I don't think so. I believe she and Rattlesnake Guy sold their island home.

Dave

They still own their place on Rattlesnake. Just busy with kids, grandkids, etc.

[bigdog]

Originally Posted by pondguy

I traveled in a 12-foot aluminum rowboat with a 7.5 hp Elgin (sears) motor, got me everywhere I wanted to go.

I did the same back in early 70's, but in a 14' AlumCraft with a 10hp Evinrude.

From my home base on Varney Point, I Went to Meredith Neck, the Weirs, and even the Witches, without a thought. The boat traffic back then was a fraction of what it is today

[DRH]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I don't know.
If the FED lowers interest rates that should put at least some support under the prices.

And the last tax reevaluation for Meredith didn't show waterfront or island homes rising in value as much as other property designations.

The Fed only influences the overnight Fed Funds target rate, not long term (i.e. mortgage) rates. When the Fed begins lowering the short-term Fed Funds target rate (currently at 5.25% - 5.50%), it will likely take some time for long term rates to adjust downward. Historically mortgage rates have been influenced mostly by the 10-yr Treasury bond yield which is currently at 3.76%, significantly lower than the target Fed Funds rate. So it may take a while for mortgage rates to come down significantly. Not a prediction, just an observation of the historical relationship between mortgage rates and bond market rates.

[John Mercier]

It can change investment outcomes that induce the ''wealth effect''.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Never say never. We've had a long expansion, we are overdue for a recession.
Everything contracts during a recession. You just have to be in a financial position to jump in. I'm 70, been through quite a few!

While not an island property, here's a message...

The family scrounged-up $200K in 1994. Yesterday, I was told this lakefront "acre of dirt" could fetch $5M...!



OTOH, a friend's widow sold her three lakefront lots for much less, upon assurance that the buyer/contractor would refurbish the 1949-built family camp.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

It can change investment outcomes that induce the ''wealth effect''.

As does, the market crashing.
Let's hope the Fed isn't too late!

[Juiced06GTO]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Never say never. We've had a long expansion, we are overdue for a recession.
Everything contracts during a recession. You just have to be in a financial position to jump in. I'm 70, been through quite a few!

Unfortunately my timing stinks haha! We had 3 kids in daycare running us 4k a month back pre Covid, that would have been a decent chunk towards a mainland property back then! My guess is I’ll have three in college at the same time when the market is prime for buying next time haha!

I guess they do have loans for them though…..and they’d really enjoy a lake house

[samosetguy]

Originally Posted by bigdog

I did the same back in early 70's, but in a 14' AlumCraft with a 10hp Evinrude.

From my home base on Varney Point, I Went to Meredith Neck, the Weirs, and even the Witches, without a thought. The boat traffic back then was a fraction of what it is today

I had a 12ft v nose flat bottom Grumman aluminum row boat with a 7.5hp motor. Thing was awesome. I mostly stayed north of the graveyard (Moultonborough Bay/Greens Basin) but could take it anywhere. I miss it.