The next Ward Bird?

[Pineedles]

Dennis Fleming came home to find his home burglarized and went outside to find the burglar crawling out of his neighbor's basement window. Fleming safely shot his gun into the ground and held the burglar for police. When the Farmington, NH police arrived they arrested both men.

Will Mr. Fleming become the next Ward Bird of the Lakes Region?


http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...939/-1/FOSNEWS

[AC2717]

what a joke, he did not use deadly force
he used a warning

[RailroadJoe]

What's with these policeman arresting someone for protecting property that they should be watching. Give him a medal for aiding the local police.
Time for the law to think logically and act accordingly.

[Jonas Pilot]

I bet he got the "perps" attention!

[upthesaukee]

I have no problem with Mr Fleming having a gun in his possesion to attempt to stop the thief. I cannot condone the discharge of the gun into the ground, nor can I agree with that action being safe.

With that being said, I would hope that if any charges continue, that they will be reduced to either a misdemeanor or a violation level, and not remain as a felony.

Also, the police did not arrest both men when they arrived. The arrested the thief. It was later that evening / night that the warrant was drawn up for Mr. Fleming's arrest after consulting with the attorney general's office.

[Coolbreeze]

Is it a crime to discharge a firearm into the ground? It may be poor judgement to do in the presence of others but I did not know it was illegal to do.

[dva]

Let the perp get away and he will be back.I don't think he will be back to Mr Fleming's house. I would like a neighbor like that next door.

[NoBozo]

I guess I'm having a problem with this. I apologize for my inability to GET It. Let me try to understand..WHAT Actions WILL BE Permitted..to apprehend the DIKHEAD who broke into my house AND another house down the street....???

The thief could get 7 years..AND the person defending his house...AND apprehending the thief ALSO could get 7 years.

The NH Attorney General..Appointed by the Governor says go ahead. Arrest him. The NH Attorney Generals BIO says nothing about his political party. Of course: That's irrelevant. I wonder if the AG want's a NEW JOB at DOJ in Washington....working for Eric Holder. ......... NOT a happy NB.

PS: Anybody see a pattern...?? "NO: Absolutely NOT...Not At All".....Ever hear that before...?

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I have no problem with Mr Fleming having a gun in his possesion to attempt to stop the thief. I cannot condone the discharge of the gun into the ground, nor can I agree with that action being safe.

With that being said, I would hope that if any charges continue, that they will be reduced to either a misdemeanor or a violation level, and not remain as a felony.

Also, the police did not arrest both men when they arrived. The arrested the thief. It was later that evening / night that the warrant was drawn up for Mr. Fleming's arrest after consulting with the attorney general's office.

Thank you for the clarification as to when Mr. Fleming was arrested, after consulting with the AG. In my opinion, that makes it even worse! Thanks for pointing it out!

[Belmont Resident]

The two really don't compare and thankfully Bird can no longer own a firearm.
He had anger issues which is why he never took the stand.
Thankfully the Governor did not do as full pardon.
The other guy was all set until he discharged the firearm off his property.

[JMR]

I have learned the hard way to not make decisions based upon press reports. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I urge caution when it comes to reaching conclusions in these matters.

Just my two cents

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by JMR

I have learned the hard way to not make decisions based upon press reports. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I urge caution when it comes to reaching conclusions in these matters.

Just my two cents

In a live interview he described exactly what happened and it is pretty much as the report said.
To bad he didn't catch the guy in his house in the act. There would be one less criminal sitting in jail while WE pay for his room & board.

[bclaker]

The police and AG should say "THANK YOU", not "YOU"RE UNDER ARREST". It sounds like the police were ready to let it go at that.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Dennis Fleming came home to find his home burglarized and went outside to find the burglar crawling out of his neighbor's basement window. Fleming safely shot his gun into the ground and held the burglar for police. When the Farmington, NH police arrived they arrested both men.

Will Mr. Fleming become the next Ward Bird of the Lakes Region?


http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll...939/-1/FOSNEWS

In my opinion Ward Bird's poor judgement led to his problems. In this case, Fleming's actions seem well thought out and perhaps even courageous. The next time instead of firing into the ground and risking that a ricochet hit an innocent bystander, Fleming should shoot the burglar between the blinkers! The Fleming fiasco seems like something that might only happen in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Hopefully, common sense prevails and the cops drop the charges quickly. I nominate Mr. Fleming for New Hampshire Man of the Year.

[SAMIAM]

The police should APPRECIATE civilian help.They can't be everywhere at once and gun owners stop thousands of crimes every year in this country.It is not reported in the mainstream media because they are mostly anti-gunners.
Every able bodied person would be smart to get a permit and learn to safely use firearms.
Remember,when seconds count,the police are minutes away.

[geordie]

Tough situation. Does NH have a defense of property law? The law doesn't seem to favor self help much.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by geordie

Tough situation. Does NH have a defense of property law? The law doesn't seem to favor self help much.

NH just passed laws allowing for use of deadly force outside the home. I’m not sure of how the law is worded but chasing down an unarmed burglar off your property probably doesn’t fall under it.
As mentioned before, to bad he didn't catch him in the act. One less lowlife in jail for us to pay for.

[shoppes on the bay]

this should all end well as soon as mr flemings lawyer explains that as his client exited his violated residence with his firearm (he wasnt sure if the perp was in fact no longer in his home) to protect himself he at that time observed a person exiting his neighbors house in a suspicious manner. approaching this person to hold him until the local police arrived - mr flemming, not being a professional peace officer and extremely nervous being in this situation, accidently discharged his firearm into the ground (where it was pointed as a manner of safety) - seriously though ill bet this AG is having a really bad press day today - great fodder for a challenger.

im not sure how it works in NH - will this go before a grand jury and possibly thrown out or does this poor guy go right to court?

[SAMIAM]

Noticed this morning that the Associated Press picked up the story and it's all over the country.Makes the Farmington police and the AG look real smart before the nation.

[Grandpa Redneck]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Noticed this morning that the Associated Press picked up the story and it's all over the country.Makes the Farmington police and the AG look real smart before the nation.

Yeah its popped up on several other forums I am a member of, and the overwhelming majority of the responses are in support of Mr Flemming, and saying what idiots the AG and Farmingtyon PD are, including quite a few responses from other LEO's also supporting Mr. Flemming.

[joann721]

Originally Posted by shoppes on the bay

this should all end well as soon as mr flemings lawyer explains that as his client exited his violated residence with his firearm (he wasnt sure if the perp was in fact no longer in his home) to protect himself he at that time observed a person exiting his neighbors house in a suspicious manner. approaching this person to hold him until the local police arrived - mr flemming, not being a professional peace officer and extremely nervous being in this situation, accidently discharged his firearm into the ground (where it was pointed as a manner of safety) - seriously though ill bet this AG is having a really bad press day today - great fodder for a challenger.

im not sure how it works in NH - will this go before a grand jury and possibly thrown out or does this poor guy go right to court?

In theory I agree with you - but why should this man have to pay to hire an attorney - lose time from his job to go to court - to defend himself, for protecting himself. If he had a permit for the gun and was on his own property, in my opinion, case closed.

[BroadHopper]

Many of us in Laconia who lives near 'the projects' on Blueberry Lane put up with multiple burglaries through the years. The basic repsonse from the local police is to have a 'neighborhood watch'. That's the end of it. No one is caught and the culprits returns again and again. We have to keep all doors and widows locked as well as our garage and autos year around. Those who have burglar alarms installed had their share of burglars. The burglars are smart! The police don't even bother to check for fingerprints etc. They just write their reports and head to the donut shop!

I bet if the word is out that the citizens around the projects are armed, that will reduced the crime rate!

[Grandpa Redneck]

Last summer here in Warren, there were multiple thefts and break ins, several atvs, snowmobiles, and lawn mowers were among the things stolen. The local trash man recieved some of the parts to them as scrap and recognized they were parts from the stolen goods. He called the NH State Police, as we had no police chief in town at that time, and and when they finally showed up he told them exactly who had sold him the pieces. The officer point blank told him they were not going to do anything about it, because they had more important things to do.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by joann721

In theory I agree with you - but why should this man have to pay to hire an attorney - lose time from his job to go to court - to defend himself, for protecting himself. If he had a permit for the gun and was on his own property, in my opinion, case closed.

According to the article, he went to his house, got his gun and walked down the street to talk with neighbors, thats when he saw the idiot climbing out his neighbors window. So I don't think he was on his property. Being a victim of theft in the past, I am all for nailing this guy.....maybe shoot him in the leg and then pull the "I didn't see anything officer" ok, maybe a bit harsh but I bet with a bullet in his leg he wouldn't be jumping out windows for a while

[secondcurve]

I think the general consensus of the Forum members is: I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!

[AC2717]

opinion:
Case closed
he was defending his and his neighbor's property and people from bad. SO now I am just to watch what happens, call the police and watch the guy run away while we wait for the cops to come, becuase no matter how good the cops are, and they are do not get me wrong, they will not get there in the 2 minutes or seconds it takes for this guy to dissappear.

what a joke

[BroadHopper]

Funny thing if you report a heart attack, the police are at your house in seconds! Go figure.

[Resident 2B]

I'm in Florida and I'm watching American Idol on Fox. They just had a spot with the 10 PM news headlines. This story is one of the lead stories and the anchor said, 'you will not believe this one'. Maybe not a exact quote, but that was the message.

Can't wait to see and hear the story with a local Florida spin.

R2B

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

I'm in Florida and I'm watching American Idol on Fox. They just had a spot with the 10 PM news headlines. This story is one of the lead stories and the anchor said, 'you will not believe this one'. Maybe not a exact quote, but that was the message.

Can't wait to see and hear the story with a local Florida spin.

R2B

It is pretty sad when Florida is making fun of US! Every time we go to Orlando and watch the news I shake my head and ask why people would want to live there. Some of the stuff that goes on there is mind boggling...

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It is pretty sad when Florida is making fun of US! Every time we go to Orlando and watch the news I shake my head and ask why people would want to live there. Some of the stuff that goes on there is mind boggling...

I beats having to listen to them whine about how much they hate winter and the snow.
My wife has travel to Florida and she can’t figure out why anyone would want to live there. Heat, humidity, constant rain, hurricanes. Oh but it’s nice during the winter just not the other 9 months out of the year. I suppose it is the same as owning a second home on the lake and paying for it all year and only using it part time.
Ok I might be getting off topic.

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by AC2717

opinion:
Case closed
he was defending his and his neighbor's property and people from bad. SO now I am just to watch what happens, call the police and watch the guy run away while we wait for the cops to come, becuase no matter how good the cops are, and they are do not get me wrong, they will not get there in the 2 minutes or seconds it takes for this guy to dissappear.

what a joke

I think many are straying from the reason he was detained. From my understanding there was never a problem with him catching and holding the guy at gunpoint.
It was his discharging of the weapon on someone else’s or public property that is the issue. There are all kinds of rules as to discharging a weapon and how far you have to be from a house or residential area.
Heck when I’m shooting squirrels in out my back window I’m probably in violation even though there are acres of woods around me. But the one and only house near me is within 100 feet of my house on the other side.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

I think many are straying from the reason he was detained. From my understanding there was never a problem with him catching and holding the guy at gunpoint.
It was his discharging of the weapon on someone else’s or public property that is the issue. There are all kinds of rules as to discharging a weapon and how far you have to be from a house or residential area.
Heck when I’m shooting squirrels in out my back window I’m probably in violation even though there are acres of woods around me. But the one and only house near me is within 100 feet of my house on the other side.

Valid point, but if I am on my neighbors property and discharging a weapon to either hault or prevent a crime, don't you think it should be up to the neighbor to say that what I did on his property was wrong?? I understand general laws but there has to be a common sense rule.
At what point should we take to the reason that when you commit a crime the rules change from common society laws to protection laws

[Grandpa Redneck]

CHARGES DROPPED, really shouldn't have been charged in the first place though.

http://www.wmur.com/news/30524687/detail.html

[NoRegrets]

Looks like the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" has turned into a source of revenue for and debate in the judicial and legal fields.

Technicality of the law now over-rides the intent of the law. Inconsistent application of punishment has given suspicion that processes are corruptible. The inability to take action against "bad and criminal" activity makes the individual victim feel vulnerable or at risk so when we feel right about protecting our small little parcel of earth we risk becoming the "next Ward".

I find it sad that we are evolving into a society that isn't driven by morals with leadership that focuses on social responsibility and contribution. We have leaders fanning class wars and encourage or celebrate tolerance for activities that decay our society.

Hope this situation clears up and the crook's name, crime, and punishment are all that is head lined!

Keep the heat turned on and enjoy an Early ICE OUT for 2012!!!!

[Slickcraft]

Sanity returns:

From WMUR
http://www.wmur.com/news/30524687/detail.html

FARMINGTON, N.H. -- The county attorney's office is dropping charges against a man who tracked down a burglary suspect and held him at gunpoint until police could arrive.

Dennis Fleming said he tracked down the man in his Farmington neighborhood and fired his gun into the ground to get the burglar to stop.

He held 27-year-old Joseph Hebert at gunpoint until police arrived and arrested him.

Hebert was charged with two counts of burglary and one count of possession of a controlled drug.

Fleming was originally charged with reckless conduct for firing the gun.

"The facts available at the scene on Saturday supported the charge of felony reckless conduct, but subsequent facts discovered since have led me to believe that such a charge under these circumstances would be unjust," the Strafford County attorney said in a statement.

The attorney's office said firing a "warning shot" around or near other people or homes can result in police involvement or a charge.

[RailroadJoe]

About time the attorney Generals office got smart. Maybe they are thinking logically.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Maybe they are thinking logically.

Ha! Good one! I'd say they succumbed to public outcry. Or, in their own words "...but subsequent facts discovered since have led me to believe that such a charge under these circumstances would be unjust".

[NoBozo]

Ya really gotta hate it when those Pesky "subsequent facts" rear their ugly heads in the middle of an otherwise airtight case. NB

[Lakepilot]

Was it the NH Attorney General or the Stafford County Attorney that exercised such poor judgement in this case? What office and what individual in that office?

[bclaker]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

About time the attorney Generals office got smart. Maybe they are thinking logically.

Maybe they checked the survey on FOX 25. When I checked last night, about 94% favored not pressing charges.

[Jonas Pilot]

What ever they did, they fixed it and got it right.

[Pineedles]

I am very glad the charges were dropped. I also want to issue a big thank you to Dennis Fleming for his actions. This man is a true hero! Think about it folks, do you have inside of you, what it took Mr. Fleming to do? I don't know whether I have it. I hope I don't ever have to find out. Holding a gun on someone, is something that is not easy to do I would imagine.

[jeffk]

While I agree with the common sense outcome I think the actions that happened are not clear cut.

Are you "defending your property or yourself" when you hunt someone down that has left your property?

Discharging a firearm is serious. So is threatening with a firearm. It doesn't sound like the burglar, although committing a felony, had a weapon. I'm not sure what a person's rights are to detain a person using a gun when that person isn't a direct threat. Suppose Fleming found the guy a couple days later and somehow identified him. Could he pull a gun on him?

In comparing it to the Bird case. Ward says that he did NOT threaten the woman with his gun, and she WAS on HIS property illegally, a misdemeanor. He certainly did not discharge his weapon. He did not try to detain her for the police. He just told her to leave. Ward's actions were much more restrained than Mr. Fleming and yet Ward's case was pursued as a felony. It shows the people at the start of the case make decisions that have a significant impact on the outcome.

[nicole]

I have to say-growing up I was taught to respect police and I always did have much respect for them. However, in the last 10 years or so-between personal experiences, friends experiences, Ward Bird, Mr Flemming and other stories-it seems as though there has been a lot of changes. Not much support for victims and if victims try to protect themselves, possesions or other people-they are the ones who are treated like criminals. I don't know if I was naive and this has always gone on but I find myself not trusting of the police/judicial system anymore. Please let me say that I know there are very good law enforcement officers out there but I just don't like how more and more victims receive little assistance and more and more are treated like criminals if they try to protect themselves or their possessions.

[tis]

Good is not good anymore. We reward bad.

[old coot]

Way back when I was a kid, this would simply have been classified as a citizen's arrest, not a felony.