WOW Trail Phase 3 Heating up...

[ITD]

Actually boycotting businesses for a purpose like this can be quite effective and is done a lot. That said, these types of trails always have detractors but usually end up very well done and become great assets to communities and abutters. If you don't want to be near something like this then do your homework and don't move near right of ways.

[Major]

I grew up in Laconia and now live in SD/LB. Even though I now live in SD/LB, I wouldn't want any more federal or state money be "invested" in the WOW trail. Let's be real, I drive by the WOW trail several times a day, and hardly ever see anyone on it. And if you read the police blotter, the WOW trail appears to be a popular place to buy drugs and to commit robberies. Couple that with the fact that it is inaccessible 5 or 6 months of the year make it a complete waste of money. Laconia should do what it has done best over the past decade, invest in Section 8 housing so we can attract the type of people it wants as residents. I heard/read somewhere that SD/LB generates $32M in tax revenue. What the heck, Laconia can just make us pay more.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Major

I grew up in Laconia and now live in SD/LB. Even though I now live in SD/LB, I wouldn't want any more federal or state money be "invested" in the WOW trail. Let's be real, I drive by the WOW trail several times a day, and hardly ever see anyone on it. And if you read the police blotter, the WOW trail appears to be a popular place to buy drugs and to commit robberies. Couple that with the fact that it is inaccessible 5 or 6 months of the year make it a complete waste of money. Laconia should do what it has done best over the past decade, invest in Section 8 housing so we can attract the type of people it wants as residents. I heard/read somewhere that SD/LB generates $32M in tax revenue. What the heck, Laconia can just make us pay more.

Section Eight housing is far worst than the WOW trail. Just take a look at the police blotter on 'The Project' on Blueberry Lane. 24/7! The weasels can walk through the woods and rob our homes on Wildwood shores. A couple of years ago residents complained of strong odors from the woods and it took police months to finally check it out! The found a big meth lab in the woods!
WOW trail is on the other side of the lake. Not sure where you got the idea that the WOW trail attract drugs.

[SAMIAM]

Seems to me that those millions could be put to better use than a seasonal walking trail. Phase one of the trail seems to be used very little except during perfect weather.

[Major]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Section Eight housing is far worst than the WOW trail. Just take a look at the police blotter on 'The Project' on Blueberry Lane. 24/7! The weasels can walk through the woods and rob our homes on Wildwood shores. A couple of years ago residents complained of strong odors from the woods and it took police months to finally check it out! The found a big meth lab in the woods!
WOW trail is on the other side of the lake. Not sure where you got the idea that the WOW trail attract drugs.

Two seconds of research yielded this --

http://www.necn.com/news/new-england...377055721.html

[DickR]

Originally Posted by Major

... I heard/read somewhere that SD/LB generates $32M in tax revenue....

If the "M" is the standard abbreviation for "millia," Latin for thousand, then $32M would be barely anything. If the intent was to say $32 million, then I have to suspect what was "heard." Talking round numbers, if each property paid ten thousand per year in property tax, there would have to be 3200 properties so taxed for SD/LB to generate that much collectively. Whatever the total take is, how does the total tax take from SD/LB figure into the argument for or against the proposal?

[Major]

Originally Posted by DickR

If the "M" is the standard abbreviation for "millia," Latin for thousand, then $32M would be barely anything. If the intent was to say $32 million, then I have to suspect what was "heard." Talking round numbers, if each property paid ten thousand per year in property tax, there would have to be 3200 properties so taxed for SD/LB to generate that much collectively. Whatever the total take is, how does the total tax take from SD/LB figure into the argument for or against the proposal?

It is common practice to use "M" for million. Notwithstanding, you are correct, I was off by a factor of ten. See below, which is taken from an article about John Davidson --

Both communities now have over 600 property owners from many geographic areas who can call the Lakes Region “home”. Many are vacation home owners & semi-retirees and others are year round, permanent residents. Davidson’s ‘vision’ and hard work paid off immensely for the City of Laconia. Today both communities are valued over $114,000,000 by the assessor’s office and they contribute over $3.2 million annually to the City of Laconia’s tax revenue. That’s a lot of income which has helped the city construct a new police station, fire department, schools, parks and other amenities. Not only that but think of the economic impact these 600+ families have contributed to the Lakes Region. Many businesses have prospered because of these communities including general contractors, landscapers, lumber yards, furniture stores, boat, car & golf cart dealers, restaurants and even us REALTORS®…

Still, $3.2 million is nothing to sneeze at.

[Major]

My point is that the City has a spending problem, and looks to SD/LB as an important source of revenue to fund their "investments." In eight short years, my taxes have gone from $8K to $12.7K annually. Even with the tax cap, the City has a way of sticking it to the SD/LB residents.

[Woodsy]

Major...

I do agree with Laconia needing to look at Municipal Spending.... In 2009 the tax rate was $16.97 per thousand/assessed value. In 2017 the rate is $22.20 per thousand/assessed value. The tax rate has gone up $5.23 over 8 years or approx. .65/per thousand/per year.

However... SD/LB doesn't pay any more than any other property in Laconia when it comes to funding the city's projects! I pay the same $22.20 per thousand you do!

Woodsy

[Major]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Major...

I do agree with Laconia needing to look at Municipal Spending.... In 2009 the tax rate was $16.97 per thousand/assessed value. In 2017 the rate is $22.20 per thousand/assessed value. The tax rate has gone up $5.23 over 8 years or approx. .65/per thousand/per year.

However... SD/LB doesn't pay any more than any other property in Laconia when it comes to funding the city's projects! I pay the same $22.20 per thousand you do!

Woodsy

How do you explain our tax increase of 59% in eight years when Laconia's tax rate went up 31%? I'll tell you why, they assess properties at SD/LB at a higher rate. The planning board and city counsel view SD/LB as a cash cow, and don't face any ramifications since most of its residents are not Laconia residents.

[Woodsy]

No..... they do not assess SD/LB at a higher rate! Your property increased in value... The increase in value of the property, coupled with the increase in the tax rate gives you your 59%...

Go on the MLS and look.... the cheapest property for sale in SD/LB is a 1200 sq/ft condo for $235K. Not counting lots for sale.. I counted 12 properties that when averaged out (including the $235K property) equaled an average price of $436K... There are only 2 properties listed under $300K!

So while I am happy for you that you got in a good price... I don't feel bad for you or anyone else when your property increases in value!

Woodsy

[Major]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

No..... they do not assess SD/LB at a higher rate! Your property increased in value... The increase in value of the property, coupled with the increase in the tax rate gives you your 59%...

Go on the MLS and look.... the cheapest property for sale in SD/LB is a 1200 sq/ft condo for $235K. Not counting lots for sale.. I counted 12 properties that when averaged out (including the $235K property) equaled an average price of $436K... There are only 2 properties listed under $300K!

So while I am happy for you that you got in a good price... I don't feel bad for you or anyone else when your property increases in value!

Woodsy

Respectfully disagree. Built the house in 2008, so there wasn't any past history to draw from. The first year of full assessment, 2009, our taxes were $8,000. Given the real estate market at that time, our assessments and taxes should have gone down. Instead, they systematically went up.

I grew up here, and I have friends and family who own homes throughout Laconia. Our home and my neighbors' homes in SD/LB are assessed close to what we might be able to sell them for. I follow Vision Appraisal, and from what I can tell, family and friends outside of SD/LB are assessed 70-75% of sale values. I can provide you many examples.

I get your point, but I think they have their thumb on the scale with respect to SD/LB. Just my opinion.

[Woodsy]

Major...

The math is pretty simple....

In 2009 Laconia's tax rate was $16.97 per thousand assessed. So If you paid $8000 in taxes in 2009 your house was valued at approx. $471,500.
$8000/$16.97 = $471,420

In 2017 Laconia's tax rate is $22.20 per thousand assessed. So if your house value didn't change...
471.42 x 22.20 = $10,465.52 tax bill (31% increase)

So if your taxes have gone up 59% ($8000 x .59 = $4720) they jumped from $8000 to $12,720. So the difference lies in your appraised value.
$12,720/22.20 = $572,972 tax assessed value.... 21.5% increase in home value over the 8 years.

If you think you are being unfairly assessed, you should definitely appeal to the town... (I certainly would) My guess is with median average for sale in Southdown being $436K, you probably aren't going to win. Southdown/Long Bay is a victim of its own success.

PS... My condo in the Weirs is assessed at 90% value. Per the state laws.

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

that moves to Laconia and complain, there are plenty of estate to move elsewhere!

Laconia was here long before SD/LB. So don't go telling Laconia what they can or can not do!

[Major]

Last time I checked, I am a resident of Laconia and have the same right as other residents to express my displeasure about City money going towards the WOW trail. Make no mistake, even if Federal and State (and private) monies are provided to construct the trail, Laconia will be obligated to pay for its maintenance.

My hope is that the WOW trail proponents take SD/LB's offer to re-route the WOW trail around the periphery of the development. Otherwise, it appears that the WOW trail will be wasting a lot of its capital in fighting the issue in court.

[Woodsy]

Why should they re-route the trail around a development that was sold to the city with the rail trail as part of the plan?

The state owns the right of way.... Not SD/LB.

Why not work with the WOW trail to pick out a nice fencing option?

Woodsy

[Major]

The incentive for the proponents of the WOW trail to work with SD/LB is to avoid costly litigation. Who is right or wrong really has little impact on how disputes are resolved. (Things like monetary resources, stomach for litigation, etc., have as much influence on litigation results.) The proponents on the WOW trail can spend a lot of their capital on litigation to prove that it has the right of way, or instead work with the residents of SD/LB to re-route the trail. We'll see what happens. At the end of the day, whether the trail is built or not won't have a lot impact on my life. I just think it's a colossal waste of money.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Major

The incentive for the proponents of the WOW trail to work with SD/LB is to avoid costly litigation. Who is right or wrong really has little impact on how disputes are resolved. (Things like monetary resources, stomach for litigation, etc., have as much influence on litigation results.) The proponents on the WOW trail can spend a lot of their capital on litigation to prove that it has the right of way, or instead work with the residents of SD/LB to re-route the trail. We'll see what happens. At the end of the day, whether the trail is built or not won't have a lot impact on my life. I just think it's a colossal waste of money.

Sounds to me that you are saying that "Might makes right". Even if the WOW trail advocates are correct in that they have the proper clearance rights to build the trail, you are hoping to hit them with enough legal entanglements (costs) to stop them. Sounds like trail opponents are willing to expend a "colossal waste of money" to get their way, even if they are not in the right.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Major

The incentive for the proponents of the WOW trail to work with SD/LB is to avoid costly litigation. Who is right or wrong really has little impact on how disputes are resolved. (Things like monetary resources, stomach for litigation, etc., have as much influence on litigation results.) The proponents on the WOW trail can spend a lot of their capital on litigation to prove that it has the right of way, or instead work with the residents of SD/LB to re-route the trail.

(unfortunately), that's how litigation works. It may be a colossal waste of money for the SD/LB owners, but spread across 600 units, the cost isn't that much. If the goal is to have a trail that people can enjoy, why can't the WOW trail folks consider re-routing the trail? It seems like a win-win.

What a disgusting group of "residents" at SD/LB.

If privacy was an issue, why on earth would you build/buy in a community such as SD/LB? It's not like they are building a highway around your home. It is a bike path/walking trail.

Instead of wasting money on litigation, BUILD A WALL. 30 feet high made of concrete should suffice!

[Just Sold]

A review of the plan (Plan Book 141 Page 19) shows that SD does not own the land that the RR tracks are on and that it is owned by the State. The State has owned that land longer than SD has been in existence or even a dream. The SD plan would not show a proposed rail trail as it is not part of or on their property. Good luck fighting this - I think you will be donating your money to a very smart and savy attorney who will gladly take it off your hands, as much as you wish to waste.

[Descant]

In a few years, you'll want to sell your property and the Realtor listing will brag that you are adjacent to the WOW trail.

As a separate issue if you think SD is over assessed, hire a professional to dispute the assessments. Businesses do this all the time, especially when there is no locally comparable business. There are professionals who do this on a commission basis.
You could also look at other tax rates around the state and realize that $22-23 may not be out of line for comparable cities/towns.

[laketrout]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

A review of the plan (Plan Book 141 Page 19) shows that SD does not own the land that the RR tracks are on and that it is owned by the State. The State has owned that land longer than SD has been in existence or even a dream. The SD plan would not show a proposed rail trail as it is not part of or on their property. Good luck fighting this - I think you will be donating your money to a very smart and savy attorney who will gladly take it off your hands, as much as you wish to waste.

Just sold, there is always room for negotiation. Many SDS/LB are pissed off they will boycott businesses, restaurants and bars in the area, and that accounts for a lot of food and adult beverages. Me personally I wont boycott.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

My point is that the City has a spending problem, and looks to SD/LB as an important source of revenue to fund their "investments." In eight short years, my taxes have gone from $8K to $12.7K annually. Even with the tax cap, the City has a way of sticking it to the SD/LB residents.

When I was looking for property I stayed away from Laconia for that reason. I bought in Meredith and my taxes are reasonable.

[topwater]

Originally Posted by Major

I grew up in Laconia and now live in SD/LB. Even though I now live in SD/LB, I wouldn't want any more federal or state money be "invested" in the WOW trail. Let's be real, I drive by the WOW trail several times a day, and hardly ever see anyone on it. And if you read the police blotter, the WOW trail appears to be a popular place to buy drugs and to commit robberies. Couple that with the fact that it is inaccessible 5 or 6 months of the year make it a complete waste of money. Laconia should do what it has done best over the past decade, invest in Section 8 housing so we can attract the type of people it wants as residents. I heard/read somewhere that SD/LB generates $32M in tax revenue. What the heck, Laconia can just make us pay more.

Major, Do you know how many crimes have been reported from the walking trail to the ANY police department? I am not knocking your remark about crime because to an extent I believe it's true. Was just wondering if you or anyone else had any stats backing that up.

[Major]

Originally Posted by topwater

Major, Do you know how many crimes have been reported from the walking trail to the ANY police department? I am not knocking your remark about crime because to an extent I believe it's true. Was just wondering if you or anyone else had any stats backing that up.

More anecdotal. I read the police blog, and there have been several instances of individuals being arrested for drugs on the trail since its creation. (I referenced one assault in an earlier email.) It is pretty well known that a lot of drug activity occurs on the section between Messer Street and the library.

Anyway, from the comments, it appears that SD/LB is not winning the vote of popular opinion. I'm against it not necessarily because of my affiliation with SD/LB, but because I think it's a waste of money. Even if funding is available from federal, state and private sources to build phase III, the City will ultimately have to maintain it. I think our money could be better spent on other things.

[topwater]

I don't have a Dog in the fight, however I DO agree it is/was/and will be a total waste of money. Just another feel good moment. No facts here just a common sense approach..... Dollars spent on the WOW trail ( from where ever ) vs The amount of people who use it. Just Financially doesn't make sense. Could have built a glass bridge over Paugus Bay and really had a view.

[AC2717]

I Do not have a dog in the fight either, but I have proposed many times putting it on union ave with the businesses to generate foot traffic and use the already way to wide sidewalks then up lake street and down weirs blvd up the road to the weirs, most of this area having plenty of room for the space of a trial, it will generate much more use and be better for the town and all those involved, not to mention it will go right by the visitor center as well.

side note that will bring it right by my doorstep

[Major]

Originally Posted by topwater

Major, Do you know how many crimes have been reported from the walking trail to the ANY police department? I am not knocking your remark about crime because to an extent I believe it's true. Was just wondering if you or anyone else had any stats backing that up.

from May 2011 to April 2016, the Laconia Police Department received 132 incident calls concerning the WOW trail. Most incidents involve vandalism, intoxicated people, suspicious persons, hypodermic needles and assaults. Last year, one incident involved a tent city on the phase I section of the WOW trail, with some of the residents actually providing the WOW trail as their home address.

I encourage anyone concerned about their safety on the WOW trail to contact the Laconia Police Department. I hope this helps.

[belly_button_biter]

Originally Posted by ITD

Actually boycotting businesses for a purpose like this can be quite effective and is done a lot. That said, these types of trails always have detractors but usually end up very well done and become great assets to communities and abutters. If you don't want to be near something like this then do your homework and don't move near right of ways.

When a business sponsors the development of something the money comes from the people who do business with them.


I don't think they're very serious about boycotting the O Steak and Seafood. I see a lot of South Down Shores people in there when we dine there.