Building a fire in a wood stove

[SailinAway]

Well . . . clearly I'm doing it differently. I keep a low (in height) but hot fire. Once it gets going good I burn at most 4 logs at a time, about 4-5 inches in diameter, and I add a log every 20 minutes. I don't have a thermometer. Perhaps I should. I never close the damper at all. I've only used the wood stove during power outages for the last 10 years or so, since the cost of oil was reasonable. So I'm relearning things. I plan to use it now for the remainder of the season, in hopes that oil will be cheaper next season.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Well . . . clearly I'm doing it differently. I keep a low (in height) but hot fire. Once it gets going good I burn at most 4 logs at a time, about 4-5 inches in diameter, and I add a log every 20 minutes. I don't have a thermometer. Perhaps I should. I never close the damper at all. I've only used the wood stove during power outages for the last 10 years or so, since the cost of oil was reasonable. So I'm relearning things. I plan to use it now for the remainder of the season, in hopes that oil will be cheaper next season.

Ok, so you're wasting a lot of wood. These aren't like fireplaces that are "fully running" all the time and just keep adding wood (though even fireplaces have damper and flue adjustments to slow burn/retain heat).

These are made to load up (not always totally) and, when up to temp/going well, dampened to run long hours. At most, you should be filling that every three hours. A good, tight load should go 6+. Getting more than that with that stove is almost impossible given the box size, but there should definitely be enough coals in the morning to restart easily if loading fairly late the night before.

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Ok, so you're wasting a lot of wood. These aren't like fireplaces that are "fully running" all the time and just keep adding wood (though even fireplaces have damper and flue adjustments to slow burn/retain heat).

These are made to load up (not always totally) and, when up to temp/going well, dampened to run long hours. At most, you should be filling that every three hours. A good, tight load should go 6+. Getting more than that with that stove is almost impossible given the box size, but there should definitely be enough coals in the morning to restart easily if loading fairly late the night before.

Can anyone else comment on this? I've been heating with wood for 25 years and never heard that you're supposed to load the wood stove full and let it burn for 3 hours. I really don't think it's possible for a stove this small to burn for 3 hours.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Can anyone else comment on this? I've been heating with wood for 25 years and never heard that you're supposed to load the wood stove full and let it burn for 3 hours. I really don't think it's possible for a stove this small to burn for 3 hours.

For real? I have no idea how you've gotten 25 years with a wood stove without knowing this stuff.

Here's a 15-year-old post from—hello!—me on the forum suggested above. Again, this isn't your exact stove but essentially the same.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/...-please.44782/

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

For real? I have no idea how you've gotten 25 years with a wood stove without knowing this stuff.

HAHA! Yes, for real. Why? Well we've established that I'm generally incompetent with anything involving a house, car, investments . . . . One of these days we'll find something I'm good at. I don't believe you about stuffing the stove full and not reloading for 3 hours. Not this particular stove. Waiting for confirmation from others.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

I don't believe you about stuffing the stove full and not reloading for 3 hours. Not this particular stove. Waiting for confirmation from others.

Here's the most complete source summarizing everything I've tried to simplify for you...from one of the best wood stove manufacturers. The single only difference is going to be the amount of wood one stove holds over another and the resulting burn times. For my Englander, 3-6 hours is the minimum expectation; for my Hearthstone, 4 (starting pine)-8 (banked oak) is the range. Some of the newer catalytic stoves get up to 12 hours of heat in a load cycle, which is ridiculous.

https://www.jotul.com/how-tos/how-bu...tain-wood-fire

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Here's the most complete source summarizing everything I've tried to simplify for you...from one of the best wood stove manufacturers. The single only difference is going to be the amount of wood one stove holds over another and the resulting burn times. For my Englander, 3-6 hours is the minimum expectation; for my Hearthstone, 4 (starting pine)-8 (banked oak) is the range. Some of the newer catalytic stoves get up to 12 hours of heat in a load cycle, which is ridiculous. https://www.jotul.com/how-tos/how-bu...tain-wood-fire

OK, I read that whole article; thanks for the link. I think this is what we're discussing: "Fuel load geometry: Small pieces of firewood arranged loosely in a crisscross pattern burn quickly because the combustion air can reach all the pieces at once. Larger pieces placed compactly burn more slowly because there are fewer spaces where the air can penetrate the load. Never add just one or two pieces of wood to a fire. Three or more pieces are needed to form a sheltered pocket of glowing coals that reflect heat toward each other and sustain the fire."

I started burning wood a few days ago. Now that I have more practice, I'm not having any trouble lighting the fire or keeping it going. Since I'm at home and my office is near the woodstove, I just add 1 to 3 pieces of wood, depending on their size, whenever the fire is getting low. By "low" I mean there are still flames and glowing coals, but there's room for more logs. I add a log about every 20 minutes. Temperature in the house is 64, which is exactly where I like it. What's wrong with this method, if I'm home and can tend the fire?

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

OK, I read that whole article; thanks for the link. I think this is what we're discussing: "Fuel load geometry: Small pieces of firewood arranged loosely in a crisscross pattern burn quickly because the combustion air can reach all the pieces at once. Larger pieces placed compactly burn more slowly because there are fewer spaces where the air can penetrate the load. Never add just one or two pieces of wood to a fire. Three or more pieces are needed to form a sheltered pocket of glowing coals that reflect heat toward each other and sustain the fire."

I started burning wood a few days ago. Now that I have more practice, I'm not having any trouble lighting the fire or keeping it going. Since I'm at home and my office is near the woodstove, I just add 1 to 3 pieces of wood, depending on their size, whenever the fire is getting low. By "low" I mean there are still flames and glowing coals, but there's room for more logs. I add a log about every 20 minutes. Temperature in the house is 64, which is exactly where I like it. What's wrong with this method, if I'm home and can tend the fire?

Nothing.
The longer burn times are for overnight, when no one is there to tend the fire.
Less of an issue when the wood stove is used as a secondary.
The oil-fired boiler kick in should the house temperature get below whatever you set at the thermostat.

Only thing is to be careful that the wood stove does not heat the thermostat to the point of ''fooling'' it and allow for remote rooms to get too cold (not as much a problem this time of year - but during deep winter it could cause some pipes to freeze).

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

What's wrong with this method, if I'm home and can tend the fire?

You can clearly make it work, but if you're not adjusting the stove at all, you're burning more wood than necessary (reducing the overall cost benefit of wood over oil), wasting time (not a big deal, I suppose), increasing particulate matter, and, probably most potentially negative, maybe not getting the stack hot enough to burn efficiently which could lead to creosote buildup and increased fire risk.

These new stoves are designed to be run in a specific way to get the most out of them, but you do you!

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

You can clearly make it work, but if you're not adjusting the stove at all, you're burning more wood than necessary (reducing the overall cost benefit of wood over oil), wasting time (not a big deal, I suppose), increasing particulate matter, and, probably most potentially negative, maybe not getting the stack hot enough to burn efficiently which could lead to creosote buildup and increased fire risk.

These new stoves are designed to be run in a specific way to get the most out of them, but you do you!

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Points well taken, thank you. Upon your advice, I closed the damper 2/3 of the way and that worked fine. Every time I get the chimney cleaned the guy says, "No creosote. It didn't really need cleaning." My interpretation: lots of air in the stove = hot fire = no creosote.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

lots of air in the stove = hot fire = no creosote.

= inefficient burn.

The key is finding the right balance of burn rate/efficiency, heat, and cleanliness (creosote, ash, window).

NB: I would not have gone as deep into this if you hadn't shown your...frugality...previously!

On pine: it's fast to heat up, light to carry, easy to process, and seasons much faster than anything else. BUT...it burns very quickly and can increase creosote if not seasoned well. It's the scrounger's dream as everyone gives it away and straight/knot-free logs are a dime a dozen.

I burn almost 100% pine in the shoulder seasons and then use it to start the stove before switching to birch/maple/oak in the coldest months.

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

= inefficient burn.

The key is finding the right balance of burn rate/efficiency, heat, and cleanliness (creosote, ash, window). NB: I would not have gone as deep into this if you hadn't shown your...frugality...previously! On pine: it's fast to heat up, light to carry, easy to process, and seasons much faster than anything else. BUT...it burns very quickly and can increase creosote if not seasoned well.

Yes, I'm frugal, so I don't want to waste wood. Can you explain your argument about efficiency more? How is a hot fire inefficient?

Also, does very dry pine create NO creosote, or less creosote, or what?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Yes, I'm frugal, so I don't want to waste wood. Can you explain your argument about efficiency more? How is a hot fire inefficient?

Also, does very dry pine create NO creosote, or less creosote, or what?

It's not an argument, it's fact—if you reduce the amount of air being fed into the stove, you will reduce the speed at which it burns. I mean, you're feeding a new piece every 20 minutes (plus your initial load) and I ran my stove for almost 5 hours on 5 total pieces. The burn tube and air inlet (and catalytic) designs are for increased efficiency—otherwise, it's a fireplace.

Unseasoned pine can create more creosote (and ash) because the moisture and sap reduces the temperature of the burn while also preventing complete burning.

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[John Mercier]

If the pieces are the same size... she may be introducing more air.

I switched from a large stove to a smaller stove because the larger stove would overheat the shop unless I nearly smoldered it. The large unit was designed to be an overnighter that could hold a larger charge. The small one might hold three pieces... but that is a big might.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Yes, I'm frugal, so I don't want to waste wood. Can you explain your argument about efficiency more? How is a hot fire inefficient?

Also, does very dry pine create NO creosote, or less creosote, or what?

Very dry wood creates less.

[Descant]

This has been a good thread, lots of info and after many posts, nobody has hijacked it. Thinkxingu has been particularly thorough.
Way back, there was talk about splitting wood with an ax and hitting the ax with a mallet. Eventually, that will spread the eye on the ax and the head will fly off. A loose head is mostly good only for cutting off toes. A "camper's ax" is OK for splitting wood for a campfire, but not in quantities for residential heating. Better to use a maul and steel wedges of various sizes. Easier is a wedge fixed to a vertical post that is driven with a sledge hammer.

It sounds like the OP, feeding every 20 minutes, wanted a pretty fire, not a long lasting fire. If the price of oil remains stable, learning to conserve wood and feeding every4 hours will take over.
If wood will be the dominant fuel for 2022-23 winter, better buy now, split and age it yourself. If you like 14" lengths, it should age easily. Given enough time, 14", smaller diameter should age OK without splitting.

I like pine in the fireplace and outdoors, not so much in a wood stove except for kindling. For starting, consider buying an artificial log and cutting off a 1"-2" thick piece. If your wood is dry and split, that should get you started with no fuss.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Descant

Way back, there was talk about splitting wood with an ax and hitting the ax with a mallet. Eventually, that will spread the eye on the ax and the head will fly off.

Exactly what happened when I used a hatchet to pound on the ax the other day, though the head didn't actually fly off.

Originally Posted by Descant

If the price of oil remains stable, learning to conserve wood and feeding every 4 hours will take over.

Ha! Good point! Hence I'm trying to learn more about this. I have not yet grasped the balance between a fire's need for air and burning too quickly, and how to maintain the right temperature in the house. At the moment it's too hot in my house and the humidity is 16%, which again led to shorting out my computer with static electricity.

Originally Posted by Descant

If wood will be the dominant fuel for 2022-23 winter, better buy now, split and age it yourself.

For people like myself who aren't retired, we have to weigh having free heat from our own property against the time lost from our work to cut, split, and haul wood.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

For people like myself who aren't retired, we have to weigh having free heat from our own property against the time lost from our work to cut, split, and haul wood.

I used to do that 30+ years ago when I was working because I was physically able. My neighbor and I split a grapple load. Having retired a while back I don't have the urge to cut split and haul wood, even though I (could) have the time.
Glad your toes are OK.

[8gv]

I am retired and not burning wood for heat.

If I did I might save some money but I am more concerned about my "body capital" account than my bank account.

How do I wish to use the remaining capabilities of my body?


I'd rather reel in a fish than split a log.

[John Mercier]

Gardening and splitting wood is reasonable exercise if done with care.

[NH.Solar]

The key to starting a fire is kndling and you can quickly and easily make a pile from your cordwood using a Kindling Cracker. I've heated with wood for much of my life and this is one of the best tools I've ever bought for the task! I heat from the basement and this tool and a hatchet are sitting just a few feet away from my stove. A super easy, super fast, and super convenient way to build your fire.
It is also a lot easily to fit longer wood in a smaller stove if it has been reduced in diameter

[BoatHouse]

Originally Posted by NH.Solar

The key to starting a fire is kndling and you can quickly and easily make a pile from your cordwood using a Kindling Cracker. I've heated with wood for much of my life and this is one of the best tools I've ever bought for the task! I heat from the basement and this tool and a hatchet are sitting just a few feet away from my stove. A super easy, super fast, and super convenient way to build your fire.
It is also a lot easily to fit longer wood in a smaller stove if it has been reduced in diameter

I love my kindling cracker!

[SailinAway]

Two questions:

(1) How about this stovepipe thermometer: https://www.amazon.com/WoodSaver-Sto.../dp/B0011BBAH4

(2) Is it OK to put a large aluminum pot on the stove for humidity, providing that it doesn't run dry? Can the metal get thin and possibly crack over time?

[John Mercier]

The temperature meter should help keep the flue in the proper range.
As long as water stays in the pot... not sure that anything bad would happen.

Because the stove is most likely not a cat with external supply air... you will only get it so efficient.

Because you are starting a new fire repeatedly, the flue will drop outside the optimum range and into the creosote range as you warm it up and let it cool down.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Two questions:

(1) How about this stovepipe thermometer: https://www.amazon.com/WoodSaver-Sto.../dp/B0011BBAH4

(2) Is it OK to put a large aluminum pot on the stove for humidity, providing that it doesn't run dry? Can the metal get thin and possibly crack over time?

1. Yes, but I prefer having one with the degree marks. I have 2 on the stack about 8-10 inches apart with the lower one about 36 inches up the pipe. I do compare the two, and there really isn't much difference between the two. Call it redundancy.

2. I use cast iron sitting on a trivet on my stove. I used to buy the $80 ones but they got a build up of mineral deposits that really marred the appearance. We switched over to an inexpensive one and I get the same deposits. Each year we have taken a wire brush to the deposits and then put some some polish on it. We usually change them at 3-4 years. Cheaper is easier on the mind to replace.

Never used aluminum pots. Go on Amazon for the cast iron or to your local fireplace and woodstove retailer.

Dave

[Descant]

Yes, cast iron. But don't add cold water if it boils dry. Remove it, let it cool, than add water and reset. It's April. Save this thread for next fall.

[John Mercier]

Something like this is what they are talking about...
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...All%20Products

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Something like this is what they are talking about...
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...All%20Products

Actually this is like what I have.

FireBeauty Woodstove Steamer Stove Humidifier Cast Iron Lattice Top Rust Resistant 2.3 Quart Capacity (horse) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FJHP3PW...NMYREM6GSR2PXJ

Dave

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Descant

Yes, cast iron. But don't add cold water if it boils dry. Remove it, let it cool, than add water and reset. It's April. Save this thread for next fall.

By next fall oil will be $2 a gallon and I won't need to heat with wood.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

By next fall oil will be $2 a gallon and I won't need to heat with wood.

But if you can get wood inexpensively, it'll always be a good source of heat, especially for those days you wanna get a bit warmer than the 47° you keep your house at!

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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

By next fall oil will be $2 a gallon and I won't need to heat with wood.

Better safe than sorry.
I have several solar projects in the works for areas that do not have shading issues...

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Better safe than sorry.
I have several solar projects in the works for areas that do not have shading issues...

Congratulations on passing the 1000 mark in less than a year. You're a busy guy.

[John Mercier]

More bored.

[SailinAway]

Now that I've had a month to practice heating with wood, here's what I've learned. I think I was splitting the wood too small and burning it too hot, hence the rapid consumption of fuel. I switched to burning larger pieces---8" instead of 4"---and I close the damper about 2/3 once a hot bed of embers is established. So Thinkxingu was correct about all this! (But not, I think, about the number of large logs I can fit in my stove for burning all night.)

Since I have no idea what the price of oil will be by the fall, I think I will try to replenish my wood pile from my own woods. That will save money on fuel and also clean up the woods. At the very least, I can set the thermostat to 50 day and night, and supplement with wood so that the thermostat would only come on on a cold night, and never during the day.

Some tricks I learned: I prefer to split kindling the lazy person's way, sitting down. I got a 12" x 12" log that happened to have a vertical notch in it. The notch will hold any oddly shaped piece of wood, like the ones that were cut at an angle---the poor person's Kindling Cracker.

To cut larger (8"-10") but short (24") logs with a chainsaw (it's hard to hold those), I made a contraption like a miter box and nailed it to the top of a 15" high chopping log. Even a small electric chainsaw can cut through larger logs just by cutting and turning the log in the miter box. The miter box can also hold one or more long branches for sawing.

This is mostly tedious and messy work, not to mention dangerous, although splitting kindling is pretty satisfying. I read the mini split thread with envy and dream about solar heat also. Anything but oil.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Now that I've had a month to practice heating with wood, here's what I've learned. I think I was splitting the wood too small and burning it too hot, hence the rapid consumption of fuel. I switched to burning larger pieces---8" instead of 4"---and I close the damper about 2/3 once a hot bed of embers is established. So Thinkxingu was correct about all this! (But not, I think, about the number of large logs I can fit in my stove for burning all night.)

Since I have no idea what the price of oil will be by the fall, I think I will try to replenish my wood pile from my own woods. That will save money on fuel and also clean up the woods. At the very least, I can set the thermostat to 50 day and night, and supplement with wood so that the thermostat would only come on on a cold night, and never during the day.

Some tricks I learned: I prefer to split kindling the lazy person's way, sitting down. I got a 12" x 12" log that happened to have a vertical notch in it. The notch will hold any oddly shaped piece of wood, like the ones that were cut at an angle---the poor person's Kindling Cracker.

To cut larger (8"-10") but short (24") logs with a chainsaw (it's hard to hold those), I made a contraption like a miter box and nailed it to the top of a 15" high chopping log. Even a small electric chainsaw can cut through larger logs just by cutting and turning the log in the miter box. The miter box can also hold one or more long branches for sawing.

This is mostly tedious and messy work, not to mention dangerous, although splitting kindling is pretty satisfying. I read the mini split thread with envy and dream about solar heat also. Anything but oil.

The solar that I am looking at is more about hot water...
But Gary (ex-Boeing engineer) has been working on it and compiling the effort for decades. He was a strong contributor to the Mother Earth News forum over the years as we worked out the differences between theory and real world outcomes. He keeps his information on the www.builditsolar.com site.

[8gv]

The wood stove that I "enjoyed" for many years was a Vermont Castings Intrepid II.

It had a catalytic converter and a temperature controlled air intake device.

It cooked my firewood.

To start it, the cat was bypassed via an internal damper.

Once a good fire was established the damper lever was turned to route the smoke through the cat.

Then the wood would glow bright red with little to no flame.

The air intake, which controlled how hot the fire would burn, had a metal coil that would expand and contract with temperature changes.

When you set the air intake opening to the desired gap the coil would keep it there.

This resulted in a good long burn requiring no additional attention.

My only gripe was that the stove needed wood measuring 16" or less.

I used to cut my own so I targeted 14".

Remember that wood heats you twice... at least.