First Cyanobacteria Warnings of 2024 Issued for Lake Winnipesaukee

[rodgcsa]

Do people really think Geese are a major cause of this?? Really think about it.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by imyourhuckleberry

Then we can't have nice things.

If people can't act responsibly then they cant have access to the stuff thats causing the issue.

I read the law and its pretty soft. Eg, there's exceptions for people "growing new lawns" which allows stores to stock high phosphorus fertilizers. Leaving it up to the discretion of homeowners never actually works.

Time to update that law huh?

Since your in the business, you can probably confirm this but I heard that "guano" (Bat / seabird poop) is an excellent phosphorous free (or much lower in phosphorous) fertilizer that is completely safe to use around waterways and also works excellent. If so why isn't more of this being used??...is it a cost related issue??

Thanks!

Dan

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by rodgcsa

Do people really think Geese are a major cause of this?? Really think about it.

They are one of many!

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Biggd

We spend more money on studies than we do on remediation. Then, when we finally decide to do something, the price has gone up so much that we can't get the funding.

This might be true in some cases but there are recent examples where the process worked. For example, in the M'boro Bay sub-watershed, about $40K was spent on the study - which identified the problem spots and over 40 projects that would reduce phosphorus level. Over the past eight years, the town DPW has used that plan to get grants and work through the project list. In another case, about $70K was spent studying the cyano problem in Kanasatka which resulted in over $500,000K spent on remediation. The common thread here is the Lake Winnipesaukee Association. They are good at making plans and even better at using the plans to obtain grants for projects. No plan, no grant - so money needs to be spent on studies. The trick is rapid follow-up.

[sunfishman]

The geese contribute to the problem. The question is why do people tolerate the mess from the geese. If the mess was from the dogs, would it be tolerated.
For some reason, people don't mind stepping in goose poo.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by sunfishman

The geese contribute to the problem. The question is why do people tolerate the mess from the geese. If the mess was from the dogs, would it be tolerated.
For some reason, people don't mind stepping in goose poo.

Dogs are pets, and their owner is responsible to pick up their mess. Geese are not pets so who is responsible to pick up their mess?
We tolerate it because we don't want to pick it up. Maybe you should volunteer.

[sunfishman]

The solution is not volunteers picking up after a never ending overpopulation of geese. They need to be 'thinned out'. Once they became a federally protected species their population exploded. Why do we have hunting seasons on everything else, but not the geese?

[SAB1]

Geese are migratory waterfowl birds and under control of the federal government. They are hunted.

[tis]

Originally Posted by sunfishman

The solution is not volunteers picking up after a never ending overpopulation of geese. They need to be 'thinned out'. Once they became a federally protected species their population exploded. Why do we have hunting seasons on everything else, but not the geese?

I agree. In Paugus Bay one group had 17 babies a week ago or so with another group across the bay. I can't imagine the s--- that was coming out of them.

[fatlazyless]

This June 21, 2024 New Hampshire news report from In Depth NH ..... Lake Winnipesaukee's Under Siege By Cyanobacteria ..... includes a link to the NH-DES to report any new cyanobacteria blooms in N.H. water bodies.

https://indepthnh.org/2024/06/21/lak...cyanobacteria/

It also has a link to this here thread.

Yesterday was the very first calendar day of the summer and hopefully all the cyanobacteria blooms reported in Tuftonboro, Wolfeboro, The Broads, Governor's Island, Meredith, and Center Harbor will dry up and disappear, quickly.

Time will tell what's happening with the green/blue cyanobacteria blooms? I was swimming in Meredith and the water seemed less clear than usual, and more difficult to see the rocky lake bottom. The water was obscured with less visibility but there was no green/blue growth on the water surface? With water temp at 68 and air temp a sunny humid 92-degrees, it was a happening swim in the lake.

Swimming the lake is different from swimming a pool, and wearing a swim flotation belt is a good suggestion for swimming the deep water with the waves, wind, and wakes.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by sunfishman

The solution is not volunteers picking up after a never ending overpopulation of geese. They need to be 'thinned out'. Once they became a federally protected species their population exploded. Why do we have hunting seasons on everything else, but not the geese?

I agree, but they are protected. Maybe we should deport them back to Canada.

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I agree, but they are protected. Maybe we should deport them back to Canada.

10 years ago or so, you didn't see geese on the lake. Now they are a scourge.

Maybe they've been protected enough?

[John Mercier]

They aren't protected from hunting.
You simply purchase a Duck Stamp.

We can't hunt with a shotgun in the areas that they congregate.
That is a landowner problem... not a policy problem.

[Lake Fan]

I never said they couldn't be hunted. Daily bag limit of 2 could be tripled and we'd still have too many of that invasive species. That, and we need more hunters.

[John Mercier]

You mean for Canadian Geese in the second session?
First session is five, and Snow is 25

Most of the watershed in our area is closed... and other restrictions exist.

The federal law is from 1918... so the law is not the problem.
It is the changes we make to the land that causes the problem.

No geese at Middleton Meredith until the town required the large greenspace in the back... now it is a hangout... but can't be hunted.

[Susie Cougar]

Has anyone thought of habitat modification. If we take these open expanses of green grass, which attract the geese, and replace them with different plantings that are not attractive to the geese, like trees and bushes of varying heights, then they have no reason to go there and will learn to go somewhere else.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by rodgcsa

Do people really think Geese are a major cause of this?? Really think about it.

Four adult Canada geese produce as much phosphorus as a septic system!

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Has anyone thought of habitat modification. If we take these open expanses of green grass, which attract the geese, and replace them with different plantings that are not attractive to the geese, like trees and bushes of varying heights, then they have no reason to go there and will learn to go somewhere else.

Exactly. Years ago we had flocks of sea gulls on the lake. The Witches were a favorite spot. So much guano the rocks looked like they had been painted white. After the dumps ("sanitary landfills") were closed, the sea gulls went away.

NH DES already has guide lines for shore front plantings in the Shoreland Water Quality Protection Act, but "existing" landscape can be maintained, so there is no incentive to rip out your lawn and do other plantings.

NHLAKES has a program called "Lake Smart" to give guidance on shore front landscaping and will certify your place as "Lake Smart" if you qualify.

[Mr. V]

There's A LOT of money on the lake, and more seems to be pouring in.

It would be great to use a chunk of it to build sewers surrounding the big water and require ALL to hook up.

Prohibit the use of fertilizer on or near the lake.

Feature "locally-sourced goose" on the menu of local restaurants.

[stingray]

Strange that Paugus Bay has no warnings yet vs the rest of the lake; since everything in the lake drains out of the lakeport dam as it passes the water supply source for Laconia. It would/should elevate concerns over the drinking supply when the alerts come. Will there be a warning not to drink or bathe with Laconia water? You got to wonder when will the outrage and demand for a step function increase of actions come? Do you think it will be the drop in the tourist dollars or a drop in real estate values? Perhaps we all should pool a % of our property values into a fund right now for an immediate increase in actions to end this s**t.


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[John Mercier]

The Laconia water supply is protected by a reverse osmosis filtering system.

Its problem is generally the posting of the beaches when testing returns negative results.

[BroadHopper]

The water eventually drains into Winnisquam. The association just had a meeting and testing for water quality is every week. The problem is UNH is swamped and it takes weeks to get the results.

[John Mercier]

And that would still just be the issue of the closing of the beaches.
Phosphorous bonds to soil particles... it doesn't move that much... which is why as you add more to the lake it becomes a problem - it doesn't ''flush''.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Great post APS! I agree with this 100% except for #7. I don't think people swimming (or peeing!) at sandbars has anything to do with algae blooms. #1 through #6 are spot on in my humble opinion however...

I see a lot of people on facebook are mis-identifying cyanobacteria as pollen. Pollen is all over the top of the lake (all lakes) right now and is nothing to worry about as it happens every year at this time... Dan

I've modified #7 and added #8 and #9:

Dismissers of what chemicals added to the mix in the lake, needs to study the quantities of uncommon--but increasingly detected--pollutants.

Check here:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...7&postcount=59

[welch100]

Originally Posted by camp guy

This should be a loud and clear wake-up call to the governments around the Lake, and the regulatory officials in Concord. The Lake is the engine that drives the economy in central NH, just like the mountains are what drive the economy in the north country.

We all need to contact our legislators NOW!

[winterh]

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

Squam is a whole different animal.
Unfortunately, we can't turn back time and turn Winni into Squam.
That train has left the station!

[Descant]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

Why would you start planting blueberries only if required? You should be out there with your shovel now, planting according to NH DES guidelines.

[welch100]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality...Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

Regulations on Squam are tougher, and I don't think I have ever seen a cyanobacteria warning there. The history of Squam is quite instructive. From the Squam Lakes Association web page:

At the turn of the century, Squam was quite different from the scene we enjoy today. The surrounding mountains were cleared by logging, sawdust several feet thick had settled in many of the coves, driftwood made navigation hazardous, and refuse including tires, mattresses and dead animals, had been dumped in the lakes.

In 1904, the Squam Lakes Improvement Association was formed by a group of concerned landowners. In 1905, the association was legally incorporated as a non-profit conservation organization and renamed Squam Lakes Association (SLA). Initial efforts of the SLA were focused on eliminating pollution from the lakes, maintenance of the water level, boat safety, and navigation. Through cooperative relationships with local and state governments and the dedication of four generations of people who loved Squam, the watershed has been uniquely conserved.

Lakefront property owners should support the Lake Winnipesaukee Association (winnipesaukee.org) and NH Lakes (nhlakes.org). We need to contact our legislators to express our urgent concern and support for stronger regulations, as well as tougher enforcement of the laws. Individually, we must become more educated about how our decisions impact the lake we love and change some of our behaviors. NH Lakes' "Lake Smart" program is a great place to start, https://nhlakes.org/lakesmart/

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Meade

[winterh]

Originally Posted by Descant

Why would you start planting blueberries only if required? You should be out there with your shovel now, planting according to NH DES guidelines.

I have done some and should do more but my little 1/4 acre lot will not change things. Every parcel on the lake probably would help. I am not saying it should be required. Just wondering how people would feel if it was. Do you think it would make a difference? Would you be willing to do it if it would?

[ITD]

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

[JayR]

In our little corner, there is a patch of poison ivy mixing with the grass that has been slowly advancing over the years. But, we have refrained from spraying it and will continue to protect the lake. We have some grass but do not use any chemicals on it...some years it is green, some years it is brown. If the science shows that this problem will go away if all the grass goes away, then ... the grass must go away!! But I know the issues are multifaceted and the answers won't be easy. (I also know compliance will be a bitch because of the entitled attitude of some landowners, harrumph...)

But I sure hope we work together on this, the future may depend on it.

[tis]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

Great question. And what about when it was almost all fields and cows?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

Not the kind of lawns you see today. When I was a kid, no one fertilized their lawns, they were just natural grass and weeds. No one had landscapers, everyone cut their own grass. No one had underground sprinkler systems, we dragged out the hose and sprinkler and ran through it while it was on the front lawn. The back yard never saw water unless it rained!
But nice lawns are only one of many contributors to the deterioration of the lake.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around fora long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

More development... and definitely stronger downpours.
But the phosphorous builds up... so it was happening all along and has finally gotten to the point it is.

[Susie Cougar]

Are the original warnings still in effect?

[Descant]

Originally Posted by ITD

Lawns on Winnipesaukee have been around for a long, long time. What do you suppose has changed in the last 10 to 15 years that might be contributing to this issue?

1. More dense development. Years ago, only shorefront was developed. Now, there is full development three and more levels back. We have a better knowledge of the effects of storm water runoff, but the over development has already been done. The Winnipesaukee River sewer program (1970's) made a big step forward, but it mostly covers the western side of the lake. Similar projects would help smaller lakes, and the east side, but Fed $$ is gone.

2. Contamination and eutrophication are slow and cumulative, followed by more and better testing. So things were happening some decades ago, but we just didn't have the same awareness.

3. Are the geese a part of the problem? Not many geese around 10-15 years ago.

[ITD]

What about higher lake levels, especially over the last few years and bigger wakes?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by winterh

This thread got me wondering how many current lakefront owners would be in favor of tougher regulations on what they could do with their property provided it was proven it would help water quality. Just as an example, would you be opposed to rules which prohibit lawns within 50ft or even made people get rid of lawns they have now in favor of natural woodland buffers? How far would you be willing to go to ensure the lake remains as is or hopefully improves? I have a small lawn but if required to remove it and plant blueberry bushes to save the lake then I would start digging it up today. This is coming from someone who is as anti govt regulation and libertarian as they come but when it comes to the lake I seem to have a hard time with that philosophy. Also, are the regulations tougher on Squam and do they have the same issues?

I am a current lakefront owner with a shorefront and yard that meet all the recommended criteria (as others have noted, you can get these guidelines from Lake Winnipesaukee Association).

Short of moving my house, haha, I would support anything the state asked if there was a new rule proposed to protect the lake. The thing to consider with these rules is that like many things, you may not want to do them yourself, but you're grateful to live in a place where everybody else is doing them.

We really better do something, or we'll lose the lake we love

[winterh]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

you may not want to do them yourself, but you're grateful to live in a place where everybody else is doing them.

Thats a great way to frame it!

[tis]

Everything used to be fields. This is Forest Road.

[tis]

This is the end of Tuftonboro Neck.

[Rosemarie Rung]

The June onset of cyanobacteria blooms in NH lakes has been a wake-up call for many about the fragile health of lakes. The main culprit is warming water temperature that has been trending up for many years (see ice-out history). This will continue as climate change worsens, but there are things in our control that can be done. First, reduce phosphorus to lessen the role of warmer water temperature in triggering blooms. It's not just from fertilizer but septic systems that run off into the water (must be inspected to know for sure), stormwater runoff from impervious surfaces (go out when it's raining and see where water goes, it needs to soak in where it falls or close to it), animal waste (don't feed the ducks or let animal defecate near water), and erosion (don't create boat wakes in shallow water which pulls out aquatic plants needed to take up phosphorus and add oxygen to water. Deep wakes can disrupt phosphorus-rich sediment which add phosphorus to water). In addition to reducing phosphorus, add vegetation near the shoreline to prevent run-off and take up phosphorus, maintain trees and bushes at shoreline to shade and cool the water, don't disrupt aquatic plants, have septic systems evaluated. A study done in 2014 for areas of LW identifies needed action: https://winnipesaukeegateway.org/lak.../introduction/
Finally, become educated and educate others on what a bloom looks like. You cannot rely on DES to stay up to date as not all blooms are reported and tested and they drift. Don't go into water during or just after a bloom as toxins take time to degrade. The cyanotoxin, BMAA is linked to ALS, even breathing droplets from a distance away, so the threat is not just water contact. See this presentation for more on that research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfDtMqnBjvk&t=1452s The folks at DES are great, but they are short-staffed and underfunded. NH LAKES is a great resource, too, on proactive measures.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Are the original warnings still in effect?

Great question. I was thinking the same thing when I drove past 19 Mile Bay Beach and didn’t see any warnings posted and no one in the water. Does state require hazard warning postings when the get readings above the limits?


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[barefootbay]

Start trapping and removing geese . They are a major contributor to phosphorus pollution. The have become an invasive species !

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by barefootbay

Start trapping and removing geese . They are a major contributor to phosphorus pollution. The have become an invasive species !

I don’t think that legal unless you remove them with a shotgun during hunting season.

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by SAB1

I don’t think that legal unless you remove them with a shotgun during hunting season.

First rule of removing geese: Don't talk about removing geese.

[luckypete]

Originally Posted by tis

Attachment 18560

Everything used to be fields. This is Forest Road.

Hey Tis, thanks for the photo. Any idea on what year this was taken?
Thanks in advance,
LP

[John Mercier]

Well, the phosphorous in the lake is going to be in the lake for a very long time... and new phosphorous is going to enter the lake.

Those are just facts.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Descant

1. More dense development. Years ago, only shorefront was developed. Now, there is full development three and more levels back. We have a better knowledge of the effects of storm water runoff, but the over development has already been done. The Winnipesaukee River sewer program (1970's) made a big step forward, but it mostly covers the western side of the lake. Similar projects would help smaller lakes, and the east side, but Fed $$ is gone.

2. Contamination and eutrophication are slow and cumulative, followed by more and better testing. So things were happening some decades ago, but we just didn't have the same awareness.

3. Are the geese a part of the problem? Not many geese around 10-15 years ago.

Every season, I hear chainsaws and chippers behind the front row of shorefront development but can't see them. The latest chipper was working real hard on some seriously large trees.

I have a 2001 document that says this lot (my neighbor's) shouldn't be built on. There's a cluster of Maples on that lot that have exposed roots like Miami Banyan Trees! The two lawyers arranged to share their neighbor's septic leach field and, after moving in, converted a garage to a bedroom. (!)

When gentle breezes come from the west, some days the air is distinctly aromatic. The Health Department has twice found no violations so I'm wondering if today's standard NH leach field designs (copied from Massachusetts' designs) are outdated.

A friend's house in Winter Harbor's steep Port Wedeln regularly suffered leach field exposures--mostly flooding from a neighbor's lot uphill. His place was sold recently, but unsure at this date if the rain-flooding issue was completely addressed.

This site says a leach field that is older than 50 years should be replaced:

Drain Field Age
While a properly maintained drain field is designed to last up to 50 years, it’s not likely that it will last much longer than that. If you’re experiencing symptoms of drain field failure and you know that your drain field is getting up there in age, it might be wise to begin to budget for a drain field replacement.

https://www.angi.com/articles/what-is-drain-field.htm

[tis]

Originally Posted by luckypete

Hey Tis, thanks for the photo. Any idea on what year this was taken?
Thanks in advance,
LP

I don't know the date of these photos but when I was young you could still see the lake, it was all fields. My mother told me the cows walked right down to the lake for a drink and there must have been lots of cows back in the day. Lots are complaining about the grass but there was so much more grass then.

[John Mercier]

Pasture. Pasture is different than lawns.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't know the date of these photos but when I was young you could still see the lake, it was all fields. My mother told me the cows walked right down to the lake for a drink and there must have been lots of cows back in the day. Lots are complaining about the grass but there was so much more grass then.

Hi tis!

As an fyi...during the late 1800's over 70% of all land in NH south of the white mountains had been deforested for logging and agricultural purposes. Almost all the islands on Winnipesaukee had been cleared of trees at one time or another for the same reason. Heck, Welch Island at one time was completely cleared and was a pasture for sheep! Currently NH is 83% forested...

Just food for thought...

Dan

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Hi tis!

As an fyi...during the late 1800's over 70% of all land in NH south of the white mountains had been deforested for logging and agricultural purposes. Almost all the islands on Winnipesaukee had been cleared of trees at one time or another for the same reason. Heck, Welch Island at one time was completely cleared and was a pasture for sheep! Currently NH is 83% forested...

Just food for thought...

Dan

Back then, the lake was so vast and never ending that people never saw the real value. You could buy an acre of land for $1 and the value was being able to cut down the trees. $1 an acre! I heard these stories back in the 1970s by an old man in his late 90s.

[John Mercier]

They saw the value of the time.
Powerboating didn't exist... so the lake didn't draw a lot of lakefront homes.
The land near the lake had a year-round water source, so the pasture was greener. Milking cows were the prime economic engine, and sheep would be placed in areas that the soils were less advantageous to tall pasture grass.

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Hi tis!

As an fyi...during the late 1800's over 70% of all land in NH south of the white mountains had been deforested for logging and agricultural purposes. Almost all the islands on Winnipesaukee had been cleared of trees at one time or another for the same reason. Heck, Welch Island at one time was completely cleared and was a pasture for sheep! Currently NH is 83% forested...

Just food for thought...

Dan

Exactly as the pictures show. It's amazing isn't it? So if the cows fertilized the fields why didn't it run into the lake and cause cyanobacteria? Or did it?

[tis]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Back then, the lake was so vast and never ending that people never saw the real value. You could buy an acre of land for $1 and the value was being able to cut down the trees. $1 an acre! I heard these stories back in the 1970s by an old man in his late 90s.

I remember my mother telling me that her great grandmother thought of the lake as nothing more than a watering hole for the cows. She said they called it the pond.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by tis

Exactly as the pictures show. It's amazing isn't it? So if the cows fertilized the fields why didn't it run into the lake and cause cyanobacteria? Or did it?

It most likely did run into the lake and increase nutrients, promoting stuff like cyanobacteria. But it did not cause cyanobacteria blooms like we have today because the total volume of nutrient flow into the lake was far, far less. Also, as John pointed out, nutrients can build up over years.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

Exactly as the pictures show. It's amazing isn't it? So if the cows fertilized the fields why didn't it run into the lake and cause cyanobacteria? Or did it?

I'm sure there were issues back then tis, but no one was testing water back then either...

I know no one believes this or wants to believe it BUT the lake was a LOT more polluted back in the 50's 60's and 70's than it is now...Probably a good thing they didn't test the water back then!

We have come a long way with cleaning things up but still more needs to be done.

Dan

[SAB1]

It's all related to use. Just to many dwellings and people now. Lake is stressed. Kinda like you can only get so much in the septic tank before an issue arises. I know bad analogy. But IMO I place most of blame on the State. Poor regulation and enforcement on a variety of fronts.

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I'm sure there were issues back then tis, but no one was testing water back then either...

I know no one believes this or wants to believe it BUT the lake was a LOT more polluted back in the 50's 60's and 70's than it is now...Probably a good thing they didn't test the water back then!

We have come a long way with cleaning things up but still more needs to be done.

Dan

That's what I am thinking, that we didn't have the testing we have today. I believe you, we were told not to drink the water when we were kids. We have so many keyboard experts, I am tired of reading the same thing over and over. They are so sure it is cause by fertilizer or septic. I am sure there are many more reasons.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by tis

That's what I am thinking, that we didn't have the testing we have today. I believe you, we were told not to drink the water when we were kids. We have so many keyboard experts, I am tired of reading the same thing over and over. They are so sure it is cause by fertilizer or septic. I am sure there are many more reasons.

My personal belief is more phosphorus is introduced into the lake by homes that are not directly on the lake. Storm drains that dump untreated water from all the surrounding roads has to be a major issue.

Also, I live on route 11 and that entire stretch of road from Laconia to Alton Bay including Scenic Drive which runs parallel to route 11 and is directly on the water, is so heavily treated with salt and other various ice melting chemicals that I won’t even walk my dog down that road in the winter for fear of what it may do to her feet! That simply can’t be good for all that to wash directly into the lake!

Dan

[tis]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

My personal belief is more phosphorus is introduced into the lake by homes that are not directly on the lake. Storm drains that dump untreated water from all the surrounding roads has to be a major issue.

Also, I live on route 11 and that entire stretch of road from Laconia to Alton Bay including Scenic Drive which runs parallel to route 11 and is directly on the water, is so heavily treated with salt and other various ice melting chemicals that I won’t even walk my dog down that road in the winter for fear of what it may do to her feet! That simply can’t be good for all that to wash directly into the lake!

Dan

Exactly. I know Port Wedeln has a problem because the taxpayers were asked to spend something like $400, 000 to stop the water from running off into the lake and then upped it to around a million. And I am sure there are lots of others like that. As you said, chemicals can't help.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

My personal belief is more phosphorus is introduced into the lake by homes that are not directly on the lake. Storm drains that dump untreated water from all the surrounding roads has to be a major issue.

Also, I live on route 11 and that entire stretch of road from Laconia to Alton Bay including Scenic Drive which runs parallel to route 11 and is directly on the water, is so heavily treated with salt and other various ice melting chemicals that I won’t even walk my dog down that road in the winter for fear of what it may do to her feet! That simply can’t be good for all that to wash directly into the lake!

Dan

There's an LWA presentation that I saw years ago (it might be on the website?) that agrees with this. It described the towns around the lake forming a watershed, like a giant bowl, and everything in the bowl collects on the bottom.

I don't know about your pollution point in the 50s-70s, gratefully too young to remember, but I would not doubt this. Nixon started the EPA in the early 70s and that has done a lot with cars, boats, factories, etc. I am optimistic that we can beat this different kind of problem today

[John Mercier]

The 50s - 70s was more about the immediate effects of manure/septic.

We had a lot of E Coli issues (still do)... but those are different than phosphorous.

We can also DNA test the E Coli to determine, or at least narrow the scope, of the species that it came from.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by rodgcsa

Do people really think Geese are a major cause of this?? Really think about it.

Contributing cause. Their numbers have dramatically increased !

[tis]

At least all warnings have been removed.

[chasedawg]

I find it interesting all the causes of the bloom that have been reported. I agree with them all. Even the NH State fish Harvesting that has been going on for decades. But for us from what we have experienced over the last several years is the change in water temperature with all the other causes.

For example, this recent bloom. When the bloom was first reported in 19 mile bay the water temp was 80. Out beyond in inside our break wall the temp was 74 degrees. During the Dome Heat Wave our temp increased by 4 degrees. Then the rains came and the temp dropped back to 74 degrees off our beach on Chases Island. Today I cruised 19 mile bay area and the water temp is 78 degrees and now the bloom alert has been lifted.

We have not seen any evidence of the Cyanobacteria yet this year. Last year when the water temp reached 82 we could look down in the water column and could see yellow specks in the water. Then after a few days of rain and it was all gone not to be seen again.

Then this year and many several years before hand the broads use to freeze over and i remember even a few years ago fishing derby's were called off due to poor ice conditions. It really didn't freeze over like in past years. Forty year and even twenty years ago we use to drive out to Chases Island in our truck with windows down and wearing PFD's and seat belts undone. It was my wife's truck and she was driving. At that time the ice would easily be 36" to 40". Those days are long gone.

What could make that much difference? Someone said the weather is changing.... Really.... ?

[Lake Fan]

Okay, everybody can get back into the pool.

[chasedawg]

I find it interesting all the causes of the bloom that have been reported. I agree with them all. Even the NH State fish Harvesting that has been going on for decades. But for us from what we have experienced over the last several years is the change in water temperature with all the other causes.

For example, this recent bloom. When the bloom was first reported in 19 mile bay the water temp was 80. Out beyond in inside our break wall the temp was 74 degrees. During the Dome Heat Wave our temp increased by 4 degrees. Then the rains came and the temp dropped back to 74 degrees off our beach on Chases Island. Today I cruised 19 mile bay area and the water temp is 78 degrees and now the bloom alert has been lifted.

We have not seen any evidence of the Cyanobacteria yet this year. Last year when the water temp reached 82 we could look down in the water column and could see yellow specks in the water. Then after a few days of rain and it was all gone not to be seen again.

Then this year and many several years before hand the broads use to freeze over and i remember even a few years ago fishing derby's were called off due to poor ice conditions. It really didn't freeze over like in past years. Forty year and even twenty years ago we use to drive out to Chases Island in our truck with windows down and wearing PFD's and seat belts undone. It was my wife's truck and she was driving. At that time the ice would easily be 36" to 40". Those days are long gone.

What could make that much difference in 40 years? Prety strong evidence that our weather has changed significantly causing issues we have never seen before.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

I find it interesting all the causes of the bloom that have been reported. I agree with them all. Even the NH State fish Harvesting that has been going on for decades. But for us from what we have experienced over the last several years is the change in water temperature with all the other causes.

For example, this recent bloom. When the bloom was first reported in 19 mile bay the water temp was 80. Out beyond in inside our break wall the temp was 74 degrees. During the Dome Heat Wave our temp increased by 4 degrees. Then the rains came and the temp dropped back to 74 degrees off our beach on Chases Island. Today I cruised 19 mile bay area and the water temp is 78 degrees and now the bloom alert has been lifted.

We have not seen any evidence of the Cyanobacteria yet this year. Last year when the water temp reached 82 we could look down in the water column and could see yellow specks in the water. Then after a few days of rain and it was all gone not to be seen again.

Then this year and many several years before hand the broads use to freeze over and i remember even a few years ago fishing derby's were called off due to poor ice conditions. It really didn't freeze over like in past years. Forty year and even twenty years ago we use to drive out to Chases Island in our truck with windows down and wearing PFD's and seat belts undone. It was my wife's truck and she was driving. At that time the ice would easily be 36" to 40". Those days are long gone.

What could make that much difference in 40 years? Prety strong evidence that our weather has changed significantly causing issues we have never seen before.

I've been coming to the lakes region for over 50 years. I've seen, first-hand, the temperature warming, not just here but all of New England. When I first started coming up snowmobiling, the lakes were always frozen and the snowstorms were light and fluffy powder. Now the storms are heavy wet snow and the lakes freeze later and thaw earlier. That is a fact, we can argue the causes forever, but it has happened!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

There's an LWA presentation that I saw years ago (it might be on the website?) that agrees with this. It described the towns around the lake forming a watershed, like a giant bowl, and everything in the bowl collects on the bottom.

I don't know about your pollution point in the 50s-70s, gratefully too young to remember, but I would not doubt this. Nixon started the EPA in the early 70s and that has done a lot with cars, boats, factories, etc. I am optimistic that we can beat this different kind of problem today

In the 1950s, our nextdoor neighbors on the lake installed a new device that washed dishes. How quaint just for a summer season. We still use the sink.

Later, we found out that to insure wine glasses were spotless afterwards, the content of dishwasher soap was "improved" by adding an extremely high level of Phosphorus. Phosphorus settled deeply into the latest leaching field designs which, 50 years later, are now far beyond their expected lifetime. Decades passed before Phosphorus was notably decreased in dishwasher detergents.

This season's artificially high water level is pulling the sequestered Phosphorus out from those lakefront subsoils into the lake.

Tuesday's strong winds broke up the concentrations of blue-green cyanobacteria.

It'll be back.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I've been coming to the lakes region for over 50 years. I've seen, first-hand, the temperature warming, not just here but all of New England. When I first started coming up snowmobiling, the lakes were always frozen and the snowstorms were light and fluffy powder. Now the storms are heavy wet snow and the lakes freeze later and thaw earlier. That is a fact, we can argue the causes forever, but it has happened!

Snowmobiling - what’s that lol!

[The Real BigGuy]

My wife wanted a place where we could enjoy Christmas at the lake but on the island that wasn’t going to happen. I told her not to worry, in 20 yrs we would be boating out to the island and enjoying a Christmas Day dip to cool off


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[Lake Fan]

[QUOTE=The Real BigGuy;394580]My wife wanted a place where we could enjoy Christmas at the lake but on the island that wasn’t going to happen. I told her not to worry, in 20 yrs we would be boating out to the island and enjoying a Christmas Day dip to cool off

We had Thanksgiving on the island last year, and didn't close up until a week later. We could have had Christmas out there also. Maybe this year? Gotta roll with what Mother Nature gives us.

[The Real BigGuy]

But, did you take that dip to cool off?


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[Lake Fan]

[QUOTE=The Real BigGuy;394587]But, did you take that dip to cool off?


Going to need a bit more global warming for that!

[The Real BigGuy]

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